Parson's Motivation To Keep Fighting

[SteveMB]

When Your Boop Is On The Line: The best-case outcome if Parson tries to surrender is that he convinces Ansom to employ him and give him something interesting (i.e. more battle scenarios) to do. However, he might simply throw him in a dungeon and leave him to rot. Or, he might refuse to accept the surrender, overrun Gobwin Knob, and croak him. Parson might find the latter two, especially the last, to be unacceptable risks. Judging from the tone of the last pair of Klogs, he seems to believe on a gut level that he can indeed "die here for reals".

The Only Things That Engage My Interest: Surrendering is too much like losing -- and, worse, losing without putting in a full effort. Parson probably hates that idea.

I Always Did Like To Play The Bad Guys: This would serve to amplify the previous motivation... at least insofar as Parson considers Team Gobwin Knob sans Stanley "the bad guys". (Sizemore and Bogroll are certainly decent sorts. As for Wanda -- yes, Parson has been told of her hobbies, but it doesn't seem to have made much of an impression; note that he doesn't bother to include that as a reason for calling Team Stanley "the bad guys".)

[the_tick_rules]

except this time he may die for real. i'm wondering why he doesn't surrender, he is the boss now.

[Fianna]

except this time he may die for real. i'm wondering why he doesn't surrender, he is the boss now.

Because then there wouldn't be much of a story

Stanley has pulled back and is waiting in the wings with all his dwagons, his hand-picked squad of warriors and his Arkenhammer. He expects Parson to lose and die, but he's seen enough to know Parson won't go down without one hell of a fight, and will badly damage the invaders.

When it's all down to a handfull of victors, Stanley flies in with a suddenly-overwhelming force, croaks the "good guys" and claims the arkenpliers for himself.

Now, for any good writer (and Rob is very, very good) the question is, "How can Parson act to completely screw up Stanley's plans, without simply rolling over and dying?"

Teaming up with Ansom might do it, but it's not in Parson's character to just walk away from the fight. Also, this would make it completely lopsided against Stanley, and like him or not, he's still a factor in the story.

I'm eager to see where this goes...

Fianna

[sihnfahl]

Stanley has pulled back and is waiting in the wings with all his dwagons, his hand-picked squad of warriors and his Arkenhammer. He expects Parson to lose and die, but he's seen enough to know Parson won't go down without one hell of a fight, and will badly damage the invaders.

I ... don't think so. See, before Parson was summoned, Stanley was already making plans to beat feet. He believed the situation unwinnable.

Since Parson has joined up...

Alliance forces lost: 1 Cloth Golem, ~50 Siege Engines, 1a few marbits, 6 woodsy elves, 5 or 6 gwiffons.
Alliance forces improvements: 3 Archons added, 3 warlords levelled up
Stanley forces lost: 8 spidews, 23 dwagons, 3 uncroaked warlords
Stanley forces gained: 1 level 2 warlord

The board is now completely in Ansom's favor. Before, it was only overwhelmingly in his favor.

Stanley has a foolamancer; the only use for that is veiling. He has no access to intelligence now and cannot know where Ansom is or when the Alliance actually starts their main attack on GK. He'd be flying in blind.

Also, since Stanley failed to attack on his turn, Ansom, Vinny and Jillian will be healed to full and will move in so they have maximum air protection.

When they realize there are no dwagons over GK, they'll be doubly cautious; if the dwagons aren't over GK, then they have to be someplace else... Ansom would not expose himself now that he has Jillian to protect and have a future with.

[SteveMB]

When they realize there are no dwagons over GK, they'll be doubly cautious; if the dwagons aren't over GK, then they have to be someplace else... Ansom would not expose himself now that he has Jillian to protect and have a future with.

If Ansom has learned caution from recent events, that's one thing Parson might be able to turn in his favor (and Titans know he needs everything he can get). Ansom was expecting an attack, and if he doesn't get one he's going to wonder why.

If Wanda's post-session chat continued long enough to explain the purpose of the "monstrous combination Findamancy/Lookamancy thing" (and Jillian was permitted to remember it), Ansom might be all the more concerned that this "Perfect Warlord" has something up his sleeve, nasty enough to be worth forgoing a wide-open opportunity for a decapitation strike.

If Parson figures this out, he might realize that he has an opportunity for one booping-ginormous bluff....

[Fianna]

I ... don't think so. See, before Parson was summoned, Stanley was already making plans to beat feet. He believed the situation unwinnable.

Stanley has a foolamancer; the only use for that is veiling. He has no access to intelligence now and cannot know where Ansom is or when the Alliance actually starts their main attack on GK. He'd be flying in blind.

There is no evidence that Stanley still feels his situation is unwinnable, only that he will be "going it alone". He plainly feels the situation is in his hands, and only he will emerge from it. Also, there was no mention of him emptying the treasury.

Invisibility, or veiling, has three uses - escape, recon, and ambush. I vote for the latter two :)

Lastly, define "air support". So far, only the archons have demonstrated any kind of ranged attack. When Jillian killed the twoll in the field, she landed to do it. While the principals may have mobility and some mounted combat advantage, they seem to suffer the same disadvantage of any melee fighter - if you're close enough to hit him, he's close enough to hit you.

Parson needs to lay a trap.

Fianna

[nooblade]

Even if Parson were completely free of Stanley and in full control of Godwin Knob, there's one big problem with Ansom's invasion force--they're not about to stop before they sack the city.

Since it hasn't been mentioned that Ansom is any kind of extremely moral leader, like that Paladins who get into serious trouble when they do something wrong from their deity's standpoint, I'd assume that he'd be forced into hostile action against Parson just because he doesn't know what really happened. It is an invading force, they can't just accept a peace treaty from Parson, if one were sent out they would be certain it was a trick. This is just the kind of thing that happens when you're sure that you're fighting against some kind of "evil" enemy.

Anyways, I don't really know stuff about politics, that's just my take on the situation.

[sihnfahl]

There is no evidence that Stanley still feels his situation is unwinnable, only that he will be "going it alone". He plainly feels the situation is in his hands, and only he will emerge from it. Also, there was no mention of him emptying the treasury.

He can't take the treasury with him.

He also knows the situation is unwinnable. Wanda had informed him of that early on, and he had made plans to take the Arkenhammer and get out.

Invisibility, or veiling, has three uses - escape, recon, and ambush. I vote for the latter two :)

How well does 'ambush' work in a turn-based game when your opponent is literally outside your capital city? Ansom will be expecting counter-attack on Stanley's turn.
As for recon, pretty much all it would tell him is which square Ansom's in. Since Ansom would be in the middle of the Alliance formation, JIC, it'd be extremely unlikely Stanley would be able to get to him in the first place.

Lastly, define "air support". So far, only the archons have demonstrated any kind of ranged attack.

Okay, first... Ansom would park himself over archer units. They get hits on fliers who enter their hex automatically.
Second, Ansom would have all his pegataurs, orlies, gwiffons and the like with him. And, having lost only 5 or 6, compared to the near 2 dozen dwagons Stanley lost... massive screen for Stanley to get through.

[javcs]

You forget - we've never seen the Arkenhammer used in combat.
It does lightning bolts according to the Cast list.

[Moral Wiz]

You forget, Erfworld is not just turn based. Strategy is, but the actual battles are in real time. And we don't know how veiling works. It's possible that the opponent has to search for your troops in order to find them. Ambush is still a possible.

BTW is Gobwin Knob just one hex? That may be important.

[SteveMB]

You forget, Erfworld is not just turn based. Strategy is, but the actual battles are in real time.

It's not known whether the individual unit-to-unit engagements are actually real-time or only cosmetically real-time with underlying turn-based mechanics. I'm inclined to assume the latter, given that Parson describes the fundamentals of the combat system as "simple".

[sihnfahl]

You forget, Erfworld is not just turn based. Strategy is, but the actual battles are in real time. And we don't know how veiling works. It's possible that the opponent has to search for your troops in order to find them. Ambush is still a possible.

How do you think Ansom would be able to ambush Stanley?

Edit: And, no, I'm not forgetting. When Ansom moves his units, Stanley can only watch the units go by - but he can't, since he no longer has access to a lookamancer and can only scout with his dwagons. When Ansom ends his turn, he has all his units in place for any potential counter-attack. Since Ansom will be at the walls of GK, he's going to be EXPECTING Stanley to hit him with the dwagons.

Ambush?

[the_tick_rules]

stanley will be able to get far enough away. by the time ansom realizes he's gone he'll be turns away. the question is so what really, stanley's power is broken. but then again with ansom's royal vanity he may chase stanley to the ends of the earth.

[sihnfahl]

stanley will be able to get far enough away. by the time ansom realizes he's gone he'll be turns away. the question is so what really, stanley's power is broken. but then again with ansom's royal vanity he may chase stanley to the ends of the earth.

No, Stanley's most likely going to take his force of dwagons and pound a city so he can turn it into a new base of operations. With the foolamancer, he pretty much has free reign to go anywhere he wants - Ansom will look, but cannot find. It's a big world, and someone who can move 50 each turn and hide effectively will be hard to pin down until he strikes.

[Hob Gadling]

except this time he may die for real. i'm wondering why he doesn't surrender, he is the boss now.

He can't - he has to follow Tools orders or cease to exist per the summoning spell. Doesn't matter whether Tool is present or not. The last order standing was to defend the city, it was never revoked.

[Justyn]

He can't - he has to follow Tools orders or cease to exist per the summoning spell. Doesn't matter whether Tool is present or not. The last order standing was to defend the city, it was never revoked.

We do not actualy know the wording of the order that was given to Parson; heck, we don't even know if Stanley even ordered Parson to defend Gobwin Knob per se, or if he just abandoned the city. And on that "defend the city" is very vague, Parson would have complete control of how to defend said city, so he could get away with defending the city by surrendering with some convoluted reasoning like "If I surrender the city, there will be no damage to the city".

And to top all this off? It has never been specified to whom Parson is enthralled. We do not know if the person he must obey is Stanley, the current Overlord that he serves, the current Overlord of Gobwin Knob, Wanda; we don't even know if the spell forces him to obey any order given to him (though this one seems unlikely).

[SteveMB]

We do not actualy know the wording of the order that was given to Parson; heck, we don't even know if Stanley even ordered Parson to defend Gobwin Knob per se, or if he just abandoned the city.

The closest thing Stanley said was "your upkeep'll be paid as long as the city stands". That's not an order to defend GK, just a reason why it would be a good idea to do so. (Similarly, "stay out of my sight if you want to live" doesn't actually order Parson to stay out of Stanley's sight, leaving him free to try to persuade Stanley to attack if he was willing to accept the risk.)

[Hob Gadling]

We do not actualy know the wording of the order that was given to Parson;

Well, no. I don't think it will come down to a devil reading the bible and trying to find a loophole in the wording, but it's possible. Parson was ordered to defend Gobwin Knob to the best of his ability, as is obvious from his actions.

we don't even know if the spell forces him to obey any order given to him (though this one seems unlikely).

Sure we do. When Tool says laugh, Parson laughs. Doesn't get much straighter than that. On the other hand, magic is tricky and can be broken.

[SteveMB]

Well, no. I don't think it will come down to a devil reading the bible and trying to find a loophole in the wording, but it's possible.

The last time Stanley gave him an explicit order, Parson found a loophole (the phrasing "until you're ordered to speak" not specifying who has to give the order).

Parson was ordered to defend Gobwin Knob to the best of his ability, as is obvious from his actions.

Again, he wasn't actually given any such order. (We know that it didn't happen offscreen, either. Parson stayed out of Stanley's sight until he decided to risk forcing the issue of attacking Ansom -- which he could because Stanley's dismissal was phrased as a threat rather than a command -- and by then Stanley was on his way out.)

As for why he's continuing to try to come up with some way to defend GK, it could be that he sees it as his one chance for survival, or it could be stubborn refusal to lose the game, or it could be simple inertia. The fact that he's still not convinced that Erfworld is real might also be a factor (making him think more in terms of "winning the game" than considering the entire situation.)

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I sort of got the impression that RTS was a possibillity here. You can ALMOST see the headset Parson is barking orders into.

If Parson can shift from "Do not attack" to "Swarm Jillian, croak not capture," Stanley might be able to "Ambush" from where he is hiding. If the Fool cloaks Stanley's forces, and Stanley sets himself up in a hex where Ansom has to travel through, he could uncloak and stomp a big, muddy hole in Ansom's chest!

Can anyone tell me WHY Stanley/Parson thought it was a good idea to release Jillian just before a battle? Ansom certanly didn't come riding to her side BEFORE the dwagon hunt.

[Justyn]

Well, no. I don't think it will come down to a devil reading the bible and trying to find a loophole in the wording, but it's possible. Parson was ordered to defend Gobwin Knob to the best of his ability, as is obvious from his actions.

Parson has, indeed, weasled his way out of Stanley's orders, by nature of their wording: remember where Stanley said "Shut up! Shut up until you're ordered to speak!"? Stanley never specified who could order Parson to speak again, so Parson attempted to have Bogroll (unsucsessfully) and then Sizemore. So it is shown that Parson can take Stanley's orders as literaly as he wants to.

Sure we do. When Tool says laugh, Parson laughs. Doesn't get much straighter than that. On the other hand, magic is tricky and can be broken.

Wanda said: "Commander Parson, if you refuse an order, the spell which summoned you will end your existance entirely. You must serve your Lord's will and desires. Forever." So, we do not know if Parson must only obey orders given by Stanley, orders given by any lord under whom Parson serves, or if he must obey any order given by anyone.

[Hob Gadling]

The last time Stanley gave him an explicit order, Parson found a loophole (the phrasing "until you're ordered to speak" not specifying who has to give the order).

Maybe. Who told Parson he could speak again?

Again, he wasn't actually given any such order.

Are you sure? It could be implicit, it could have been mentioned in between panels or it could have been the first question ("What would you do if you had to defend a fortified city against...")

Any time from summoning to Tools departure seems legit to me, as long as no one has given an order to countermand it. At least Tool didn't give one.

It could be a dozen of other reasons also, one being Parsons competitive nature. Who knows?