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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    So I could look back over old threads to answer this but...

    1) Lazy
    2) Interacting an raising the question might be good...

    Are we supposed to read and comment before the voting date to provide feedback for changes? Or would that be influencing others and not a good step?

    Personally my preference would be less formal and the whole thing being a supportive effort to get everyhing as good as possible (though obvously with respect to different people's tastes).



    Also, are we supposed to comment our own entries - explaining what we did and why, the underlying calculaions etc. or is that supposed to be broadly obvious?

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    So I could look back over old threads to answer this but...

    1) Lazy
    2) Interacting an raising the question might be good...

    Are we supposed to read and comment before the voting date to provide feedback for changes? Or would that be influencing others and not a good step?

    Personally my preference would be less formal and the whole thing being a supportive effort to get everyhing as good as possible (though obvously with respect to different people's tastes).
    In my experience, we've all provided constructive criticism, accounting for many interesting conversations and certainly improvements. At the minimum, it helps to create more concise presentation.

    I've just been busier than normal lately and sadly haven't been able to contribute as much. Not even sure if I'll be able to present my entry this time. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!
    Also, are we supposed to comment our own entries - explaining what we did and why, the underlying calculaions etc. or is that supposed to be broadly obvious?
    I believe some people genuinely appreciate seeing part of the thought process, while in other circumstances (personally), it helps to remind you of your own design goals.
    Something Borrowed - Submission Thread (5e subclass contest)

    TeamWork Makes the Dream Work 5e Base Class Submission Thread




  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    We've given feedback on classes pre-due-date before, so I'd think that it's fine to give a quick review.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    We've given feedback on classes pre-due-date before, so I'd think that it's fine to give a quick review.
    Better before considering no edits are allowed during the voting phase.
    Something Borrowed - Submission Thread (5e subclass contest)

    TeamWork Makes the Dream Work 5e Base Class Submission Thread




  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    RE: Pre-Voting Reviews: Pre-voting reviews are definitely kosher. animorte recently did quite a few, and there have been a lot of reviews in the subclass contest discussion thread as well. I think most folks consider it a generous use of your time, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do it (especially when there are 10 entries like that one cooking contest).

    I try to give early feedback if someone does it for me, which, now that I think about it, is a pretty lazy way of going about it. If you want some pre-voting feedback, I'll gladly give the Magician a once-over, and you're free to do mine likewise if you want.

    RE: Design Notes: I personally enjoy reading these. I can see these in a sort of gray area, because your notes on a class aren't a "normal" part of the class, and I don't want folks to feel like they need to read all the extra math, reasoning, etc before they leave a review. What would folks think about adding a new line to the contest guidelines to cover this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proposed New Rule
    As a brewer, you may include non-homebrew content alongside your submission, like design rationales or the math you used to determine certain features. However, please keep this extraneous content separate from the main content, such as in a spoiler or a separate post. Reviewers aren't obligated to read these notes before voting.
    Last edited by Just to Browse; 2023-09-19 at 10:05 AM.
    All work I do is CC-BY-SA. Copy it wherever you want as long as you credit me.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    OK, going to try and work my way through what's in the submissions so far. Apologies if I don't make it through all of them before the deadline. In fact, I am pretty sure I won't get through them all in good time so I am diving in (and sorry for any I comment on unfinished; I worry if a wait I won't have time to cover things. My schedule is unpredictable) Also, it can take a bit to parse a whole class in just a few readings, so it might need some further additions or I might just be wildly wrong.

    My interspersed comments are going to be my immediate reactions going through. Some of these might be reconsidered at the end, but it tracks my instantanious thoughts.




    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Arcane Archer



    Quick Build
    You can make an arcane archer quickly by following these suggestions. First, Dexterity should be your highest ability score, followed by Intelligence. Second, choose the outlander background.

    Level Proficiency Bonus Features Cantrips Known Spells Known 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1st +2 Magic Shot, Cantrips 2 — — — — — —
    2nd +2 Spellcasting, Fighting Style 2 3 2 — — — —
    3rd +2 Role 2 4 3 — — — —
    4th +2 Ability Score Improvement 2 4 3 — — — —
    5th +3 Extra Attack, Imbue Arrow 2 5 4 2 — — —
    6th +3 Ability Score Improvement 2 5 4 2 — — —
    7th +3 Role Feature 2 6 4 3 — — —
    8th +3 Ability Score Improvement 2 6 4 3 — — —
    9th +4 Arcane Shot 2 7 4 3 2 — —
    10th +4 — 3 7 4 3 2 — —
    11th +4 Role Feature 3 8 4 3 3 — —
    12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 3 8 4 3 3 — —
    13th +5 — 3 9 4 3 3 1 —
    14th +5 Role Feature 3 9 4 3 3 1 —
    15th +5 Anti-magic Shot 4 10 4 3 3 2 —
    16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 4 10 4 3 3 2 —
    17th +6 — 4 11 4 3 3 3 1
    18th +6 Role Feature 4 11 4 3 3 3 1
    19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 4 12 4 3 3 3 2
    20th +6 Arcane Volley 4 12 4 3 3 3 2

    Class Features
    As an arcane archer, you gain the following class features.
    Hit Points
    ___
    - Hit Dice: 1d10 per arcane archerlevel
    - Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
    - Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per arcane archer level above the 1st

    Proficiencies
    ___
    - Armor: Light armor
    - Weapons: Simple weapons, longbows, shortbows.
    - Tools: none
    - Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
    - Skills: Choose three from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Nature, Religion, and Stealth.

    Equipment
    You start off with the following equipment in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

    - ( a ) longbow or ( b ) shortbow
    - 20 arrows
    - a simple weapon
    - ( a ) leather armor or ( b ) hide armor
    - An explorer's pack
    ---
    If you forego this starting equipment, as well as the items offered by your background, you start with 4d4 Χ 10 gp to buy your equipment.

    Dex and Int are not going to be the strongest of saves, especaly on a spellcaster that is probably going to want con saves. On the othr hand, archer so a bit safer. Light armour only is probably fine on an archer as assuming a dex build. The weapons seem pretty restrictive - basically just simple weapons plus bows. If you get caught in melee it looks like a tough break for you - a rapier might help out a bit whilst not realy raising peak power, just slighty raising the floor when shooting is impractical.

    Half caster spells is setting my benchmarks to Paladin/Ranger, though a LOT will depend on the actual spell list.





    Magic Shot
    Beginning at first level, the Arcane Archer can make an attack with a bow as a bonus action if they use their action to cast a cantrip. This attack overcomes resistance or immunity to nonmagical weapon damage.

    Cantrips
    At first level, the Arcane Archer learns two cantrips from the Arcane Archer spell list.
    First level would seem to be a mandatory dip for warlocks? A free bonus action attack for a 1 level dip which is otherwise tough to get with shooting seems very attractive - even just stacking rogue evels to dump sneak attack damage on top would be very nasty. Still, something like this somewhere seems advisable to stop the archer class being out-archered by fighters and raners shooting of more arrows at higher levels. At low levels (before 2nd attack) this could be strong (depending on available cantrips) and gives some very early access to magical damage.

    I worry that as you get higher levels this will become like the Eldritch Knight and the cantrip choice just becomes worse and worse as your attack action becomes better and better.







    Fighting Style

    Spellcasting
    TBC









    Role
    Arcane Archers choose to focus on one of four roles, which may support units of elven defensive forces, or do battle more independently. Each niche style of battle focuses on two schools of magic, blending their archery and spells to accomplish a distinct function. Other combinations are rumored to be possible, but only four are formally documented and taught. You gain additional features based on this choice at seventh, eleventh, fourteenth, and eighteenth levels.
    Spoiler: Scout Deceiver (Illusion, Enchantment)
    Show
    Moving alone ahead of advancing armies, the Scout Deceiver is a master of remaining unseen and gathering information, often foregoing doing any damage or inflicting any casualties on the enemy so as to hide the fact that he was ever there at all. However, when revealed, the Scout Deceiver can still bring incredibly deadly skills to the fight.
    Spoiler: Grim Sniper (Necromancy, Divination)
    Show
    Similar oftentimes in practice to the Scout Deceiver, the Grim Sniper also focuses on stealth, but is deployed on missions to harass and cripple enemy troops by targeting their leadership and sowing fear into their ranks before escaping.
    Spoiler: Divine Artillerist (Evocation, Abjuration)
    Show
    Wholly different in philosophy, the Divine Artillerist behaves and is utilized more like a piece of siege equipment than a scout or sniper, using the destructive (and attention-grabbing) power of the Evocation school and protecting themselves from retaliation with the Abjuration school.
    Spoiler: Inevitable Hunter (Conjuration, Transmutation)
    Show
    The Inevitable Hunter is the least likely to engage the enemy as part of a military operation. They can be as stealthy as the Scout Deceiver or Grim Sniper, but are more mobile, and sent after the most evasive and well-defended quarry.
    I love the way that the impicit associateion with spell schools ties in with the arcane element of arcane archer and the wizardy tradition. That said, some thins seem a bit counterintuative - for example the scout doesn'tget divination magic? The Role of a scout is to gather information, and this seems really on point for a scout. Illuson seems a good fit for the whole invisability thing, though I could also see conjuration for the teleportation elements.

    Grim sniper... well "grim" does speak to necromancy and sniper seems to be reflecting single target damage; I guess I don't see divination here but not sure what else to use. I haven't seen the spell lis at this point but I feel necromancy spells are pretty weak in combat much of the time and divination spells are not really combat focussed either. It worries me slightly for balance (class abilities might rebalance around this though - this is an as-I-read-it review!)

    Divine Artilerist... thematically not sure what's happening. Divine + Arcane + Archer seems like it might be spread a bit themaicaly thin. Will its feeing in pay match the description? The spell schools also seem unfortunate - not wrong, but with the arcane archer being martial + arcane maic and this being the eldritch knight's thing and with these spell schools matching that class so closely... I worry it just needs extra work to not feel redundant. Later abilities might address this, but damaging spells don't tend to scale wel at higher levels so evocation on a half caster has a risk of being unerwhelming.

    And the Inevitable hunter... curious. To avoid the feeling that its filing in space as there are two spell schools left, it really needs to weave these two schools ogether into a cohesive whole. I would have thought the abjuration school might be a good match here for the "keeps going" implication of the name (or necromancy, or evocation for healing). That said, I am excited by what this could offer - the versatiliy of a transmutation theme and a conjuration theme could be very cool.




    Extra Attack
    Standard... I guess.

    Imbue Arrow
    TBC


    Arcane Shot
    Beginning at ninth level, you can make an attack with a bow as a bonus action if you use your action to cast a spell or cantrip. This attack overcomes resistance or immunity to nonmagical weapon damage, and deals an extra 1d4 damage + another 1d4 damage per the level of the spell. The type of extra damage is determined by the school of magic the spell came from: Psychic for Divination, Illusion, and Enchantment, Radiant for Abjuration, Force or Thunder for Conjuration, Acid for Transmutation, Fire or Lightning for Evocation, and Necrotic or Poison for Necromancy.
    Curious how this is intended to work with level 1 magic shot -seems a lot of overlap. Possibly due to me jumping the gun taking a look at this. Still, as written it expands the use to any spell and adds a little extra damage - just enough to feel it.



    Anti-Magic Shot
    Beginning at fifteenth level, whenever you fire an arrow as a normal attack as part of taking the attack action, it ignores any spell or magical effect that would affect its ability to hit or deal damage, including passing through objects made of force (but not objects or creatures created by magic as an instantaneous affect). If a creature is struck by this arrow while concentrating on a spell, they make their save to maintain the spell at disadvantage.
    I love this ability. Personay it feels like it might fall into the probem I see with some ranger subclasses that their good, cool definein abilities are all late game so unless your game goes long, you won't get to play with them for long. This feels like reason why someone would become an aracne archer, especially if they had the stat-line to be a wizard. Cutting through magic items, shield spells, walls of force is very cool.

    You have done a good job with trying to be clear on a complex ability, though there are still a few things that might need clarification. Magical for damage resistance - any spell that does it is clear as would be something like the maic from a ring of resistance. What about magic resistance from other sources - fiendish resistance to damage types for example? What about things that make it harder to hit - shield spell easily seems in scope, as would mirror image, but what if darkness gave disadvantage (weridly now depending on why its black to determine probability of being hit) or what about blindness? Things like armour of agathys don't prevent damage, they just give temp HP that takes the damage (whilst something like an arcane ward does prevent damage) but thematically I could see the arrow cutting streight through AoA.






    Arcane Volley
    At twentieth level, when you take the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can make one attack against every enemy in range, dealing an extra 1d4 damage with each. You have a choice of any damage type, and can expend a spell slot to add another 1d4 per level of the spell slot expended. Every arrow must use the same damage type.[/QUOTE]
    So a fun capstone, but I do wonder if this could be earlier. Hunter gets volly several levels earlier. I worry that this adds to the tension between using an action for a cantrip and for an atack action. I worry that you are going to end up with dead abilities.






    Overall, keen to see the missing elements. Hard to opine on balance before then but the themes are pretty strong. I think the big challenge is going to be articulating why not play a ranger or a fghter that can overlap strongly, especially as some abilities are actually pretty close to abilties from one or other of these classes.

    I wonder if it might be helpful to drop extra attack. I know this sounds crazy, but you could add other abilties to buff one shot, abilties that would be somewhat overpowered with multiple attacks but so unique it would define the class. Then the ability to cast a cantrip alongside that shot would always count for something. Of course, then you might want to also put crosbows on the proficiency list.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    And another... same warnings as before!


    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Storm Herald


    A goliath clad in hide stands atop a mountain. As she screams into the sky, a dark storm brews above her, and lightning arcs between swirls of shadowed clouds.

    As an injured gnome takes a moment's rest under in the shade, kind winds swirl around him, magically sealing his bleeding wounds and settings his broken bones.

    An armored figure plummets to the ground from the sky in the midst of an army and begins to hew their way through the ranks. Arcing lightning and vicious winds spew forth from their armor, throwing enemies to and fro.

    Storm heralds are masters of weather's dangerous edge. They can call upon the these powers to heal and protect, or to wreak devastation. As a storm herald fights, they grow in power until they become akin to the wrathful storms that guide them.

    Storm's Tutelage
    To become a storm herald is to understand and honor storms. Some take upon the mantle of storm herald after a close encounter with a natural disaster, while others learn of the great storms from family histories, academic literature, or ancient prophecies, and seek to understand those storms more deeply. Weather is part of life across the world, so storm heralds can hail from all kinds of backgrounds, but most storm heralds hone their talents in places where their storms are commonplace, like arid deserts, tropical coasts, and icy tundras.

    Of Wind and War
    Storm heralds are warriors at heart, but have magical talents that allow them to invoke the winds from afar. In battle, many storm heralds rely upon chants while their soul storm grows in power, manipulating foes and bolstering allies until they are powerful enough to join the fray. A storm herald's rage offers them unparalleled power, but prevents them from using finer magics, including their chants. Even worse, a storm herald risks running out of stamina during their rage, leaving themselves in a weakened state without any power to draw on. Mastery of the storm requires knowing the right time to tap into your inner rage.

    Class Features
    As a storm lord, you gain the following class features.

    Hit Points
    Hit Dice: 1d12 per storm herald level
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + your Constitution modifier
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d12 (or 7) + your Constitution modifier per storm herald level after 1st.

    Proficiencies
    Armor: Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields
    Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
    Saving Throws: Strength, Wisdom
    Skills: Choose two from Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Persuasion, and Survival
    Equipment:
    • (a) chain mail, or (b) scale mail, or (c) leather armor
    • (a) a martial weapon and a shield, or (b) two martial weapons
    • (a) a longbow and 20 arrows, or (b) five nets
    • An explorer's pack



    D12 hit dice? A bit of a tough guy. Lots of heavy armour, shields points to bein an excelent tank. Barbarian hit points with a fighter AC (though no defence fighting style I guess)?

    Strength and wisdom are good saves - well strength is good if you want mobility.




    Level Prof. Features
    Storm Die
    Masteries Known
    1 +2 Intensity, Storm Strikes, Warding Wind
    d4
    -
    2 +2 Storm Masteries, Bask in the Eye
    d4
    1
    3 +2 Prolonged Rage (3), Storm Terrain
    d6
    1
    4 +2 Ability Score Improvement
    d6
    1
    5 +3 Extra Attack, Stormwalker
    d6
    1
    6 +3 Controlled Intensity
    d6
    2
    7 +3 Prolonged Rage (5), Storm Terrain Improvement
    d8
    2
    8 +3 Ability Score Improvement
    d8
    2
    9 +4 Coax the Sky
    d8
    2
    10 +4 Rapid Genesis
    d8
    2
    11 +4 Prolonged Rage (7), Ride the Wind
    d10
    3
    12 +4 Ability Score Improvement
    d10
    3
    13 +5 Stormrage
    d10
    3
    14 +5 Storm Terrain Improvement
    d10
    3
    15 +5 Relentless Storm
    d10
    3
    16 +5 Ability Score Improvement
    d12
    4
    17 +6 Prolonged Rage (9)
    d12
    4
    18 +6 Storm Terrain Improvement
    d12
    4
    19 +6 Ability Score Improvement
    d12
    4
    20 +6 Stormfury
    d12
    4

    Intensity
    Your powers follow the path of great storms: gathering in power to a raging peak, before fading away. This is represented by the state of your intensity. You can be in one of four states: Calm, Gathering, Raging, and Weakened.

    • Calm. By default, you are Calm, which usually allows you to call upon kinder, softer magics. At the end of your turn, you may choose to become Gathering, as the storm in your soul begins to grow.
    • Gathering. While Gathering, your storm powers begin to grow. Certain features, such as Storm Strike, give you benefits in this state. At the end of your turn, you must become Raging, and your inner storm reaches its maximum.
    • Raging. While Raging, your storm powers are at their peak. You usually receive the greatest combat benefits in this state. At the end of your turn, you must become Weakened, as the energies of your storms fade away.
    • Weakened. While Weakened, you are without power. Unless otherwise specified, you can’t use your storm herald features while weakened. At the end of your turn, you must become Calm, as your storm powers return to their original form.

    You can track this progression using a d4, setting with 1 representing your Calm state and 4 representing your Weakened state.

    Intensity Changes to When
    Calm Gathering You choose to become Gathering at the end of your turn.
    Gathering Raging You end your turn while Gathering.
    Raging Weakened You end your turn while Raging.
    Weakened Calm You end your turn while Weakened.

    Storm Die
    As your storm magic swells, your attacks become more dangerous. This is represented by your Storm Die, which begins at a d4. While you are Raging, you may add your Storm Die to the damage dealt with your melee weapon attacks.

    Your Storm Die increases as you gain levels according to the storm herald table.
    Right ok... so this is where it gets complicated... level 1. I love it. Lets get my head round this.
    So roughly the shape of the class seems to be you get a storm die, which is a major feature that powers your stuff, which grows as you level up. This seem important.

    And intensity. Well clearly worded (I realise this sounds patronising, but honestly - when you know exactly wha you mean to say its so easy to write it in a way that is clear to you but opaque to others. Genuinely applauding and appreciating clarity I fear I have failed to deliver in my own efforts). So you get to ratchet up in combat...

    Before seeing the detail, this sounds... cool. So your typical fight lasts about three rounds. Some are less, some have a bit of manuvering and positioning and buffing beforehand to take them to 4 rounds and some are genuinely big fights that take longer. I think this rate of escalaton is a perfec fit for that - giving you (likely) the abaility to decide a fight in round 3, but also a ot of pressure to do so. Being weighted towards the end of a fight will help powerful abilities not overshadow others who go to shine on earlier turns. I realy like it.

    The storm die increments are irregular, which isn't a problem, but it made me wonder what else was going on (or is it just an arithmetic progression for the number of levels at each die size?). Is d4 a "starter die" and you want to get out soon? Is waiting to level 3 before giving a D6 to make it less of an attractive dip? I am certainly curious about this as typically it is a challenge getting martials to scale well at higher levels as casters pull away so I would have expected denser upgrades at the top and sparser at the bottom.

    And the theme... great. I loved the idea of the barbarian sub-class, but my lack of love for th barbarian and the specific implementation never tempted me.



    Warding Wind
    Without even a thought, winds swirl around you to protect you. If you would add your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class, you may add your Wisdom modifier instead.
    Interesting ability. Very cool. Might need some clarificaton about whther bonuses are capped by armour type in the same way (i.e. plate doesn't let you add wisdom); I presume this is the case.

    I think this ability is subtly strong. So you get to pump Wis instead of Dex, swapping some good saves. A failed Wisdom save will take you out of the fight, a failed dex save will cost you HP - though this class seems to not have HP loss as a particular vulnerability due to larger HD size and good AC to shrug off other attacks on a depleted total. It makes sense to avoid being over-MAD.




    Storm Masteries
    When you reach 2nd level, you learn to channel the roiling energies in your soul, taking on the characteristics of storms. You learn a single storm mastery, detailed at the end of this class. Storm masteries grant you features that depend on your intensity, and you must focus on storm masteries as you move closer to rage. See the full rules for storm masteries at the end of this class description.

    When a storm mastery requires a saving throw, the DC is:

    Storm DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
    Will review down-page


    Bask in the Eye
    Starting at 2nd level, you can call upon gentle, healing winds to mend your wounds and rejuvenate your fighting spirit. While you are Calm, you can use an action to regain hit points equal to 2 rolls of your Storm Die.

    You may use this ability a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, and you regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.
    Hmm. Nice job on scalling this. I am already picking up a really good tenson between boosting Wisdom and boosting your attack stat. It feels like different players might play the class differently which is very cool. The rising amount healed with both wisdom and die size keeps the ability somewhat relevant into the later game whilst still being very clearly an early game focussed ability. At early levels, this is a lot of healing though - a 14 would seem to be a reasonable minimum for Wisdom to start with so at level 1 thats an expectation of 10 points of heaing per long rest, beating out a Paladin's lay on hands and not being far behind a cleric if they opted to use both their spell slots for cure wounds.

    On the flip side, you can't heal others so its a lot less powerful and i is probaby a between combats thing. Still, it bolsers the feeling I am getting of a really tough, tanky character. COuld be fun with something like a dwarf with extra HP but wihtout increased HP recovery - you can keep yourself topped off.






    Prolonged Rage
    At 3rd level, you can ride your intensity just a bit longer. You can remain Raging for 3 rounds before you must become Weakened.

    The duration you can continue raging increases by 2 rounds at 7th level (5 rounds), 11th level (7 rounds), and 17th level (9 rounds).
    OK... this was unexpected. I liked the cadence of the rising and falling power of the character. Of course, hard to judge in isolation wihtout the specific abilities, but it seems that this is going to be a MAJOR buff for logner fights or where there is some prep/warning or can chose when to engage. This is going to make a lot of the class power very DM dependent and hard to evaluate.


    Terrain Archetype
    At 3rd level, you choose a terrain that you are most familiar with, which shapes the expression of your storms. Choose from Desert, Sea, or Tunda. Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
    So the subclass. I think you made a good choice here - from a flavour perspective I would be keen to play any of these.



    Ability Score Improvement
    When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

    Extra Attack
    Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
    Standard... yes, but it ells us something about what you are using your actions for.


    Stormwalker
    At 5th level, you can bring winds that swirl around you in short bursts. As a bonus action, gain a flying speed of 30 feet for 1 minute. At the end of the duration, you lose this flying speed, and you can’t use this feature for another minute.
    This seems... higher level. Its no faster than normal move, it doesn't dodge opportunity attacks but no resource, no concentraton flying is a big deal - having played PCs with racial flying. It feels like it makes thematic sense and it oesn't boost combat power that much... most of the time. I just worry it might annoy the DM as it circumvents easily a lot of obstacles/chaenges that are good n early T2 and gives a massive advantage against any casters using terrain altering spells or walls. It feels like even if it were once per day it would still feel special and cool and 5th level would still fel a powerful level.



    Controlled Intensity
    Beginning at 6th level, the storm inside you is ever-roiling, an untapped energy that you can keep just barely at the surface. When you end your turn while Gathering, you only become Raging if you want to. Otherwise, you can remain Gathering indefinitely.
    I really need a better sense of what this means to evaluate properly. Later, after I have read the other abilities.


    Coax the Sky
    Starting at 9th level, when you spend at least 8 hours in a location, you can shape the weather around you. You can shift the precipitation, temperature, and wind within 5 miles of you as though you had cast the spell control weather. Unlike the spell, you can only shift the weather within 1 stage, and this effect does not require concentration.
    Nice. A good ribbon or on-combat ability adds a lot of favour.

    Rapid Genesis
    Beginning at 10th level, you can call upon your rage in a heartbeat. At the start of your turn, if you are Calm, you may become Gathering.
    Personally, I am not sure I am loving this. It seems like you have a really cool mechanic that rewards you for pacing yourself and looking to unleash your most powerful effects at just the right time... and then you add so many abilities and so much of your 'power budget' for the class making this really engaging mechanic less of a feature. Now there is no functional "calm" state except a nod between combats to use your healing. Its either gathering or spenign quite some time at Raging. Turn 1 starts with gathering and end of Turn 1 you can hit raging. Turns 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... all raging. If combat runs to 7 turns. Its also maybe worth highlighting that this ability doesn't seem to do much. Per your level 6 ability you can be walking around in gathering all day anyway so why would you be stepping up (to be fair, I haven't read the masteries yet, so there may be some serious penalties).


    Ride the Wind
    At 11th level, your control over the air is perfect, allowing you to form a bubble of air that you perfectly control. This gives you a flying speed of 60 feet and allows you to move and breathe freely even in places without air, such as the deep ocean or the void of realmspace. In addition, strong winds, both natural and magical, can’t move you unless you choose to be moved.
    It seems like a "bubble" feels too neat and orderly and self-contained as a descripton for a class feature! Level 11 is typically a strongish combat buff as well. Flying is cool but it feels the level could take more. I do observe there is a lot of stuff happening in the background - raging lasts longer, storm die increases, another mastery. Its... an OK level but I do wonder if when your peers are getting level 6 spells, third attacks, improved divine smites... is this going to feel like you get less?


    Stormrage
    At 13th level, you can focus on two storm masteries when you begin Gathering instead of one.
    Guessing this is significant. Coming online at the same time as level 7 spells, I would hope so.

    Relentless Storm
    Beginning at 15th level, if you drop to 0 hit points while Gathering or Raging and don’t die outright, you can make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, you drop to 1 hit point instead.



    Each time you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.
    If there were to be any ability to chang in isolation so far, it would be this one. Your level 6 ability lets you always be in Gathering. You can always take the saving throw. Pick up resilient (con) and you can make it really, really hard to fail a DC10 save. You are not strictly immortal, but you will be about as close as you can get without moon druid or long death monk. Failing a second is still not a given - DC15 with something like a +7 or maybe up to +9 (with magic items and half-decent Con) and a third save of DC20 is even in reach.

    Stormfury
    When you reach 20th level, you can wield the power of storms with ease. You can focus on three storm masteries simultaneously instead of two.
    I really ought to read what these storm masteries do!



    Storm Masteries
    Storm masteries represent your connection to the powerful storms of this world. Each storm mastery offers two features: Chants and Furies. Chants are features that can be used while Calm or Gathering, with a bonus while Gathering. These tend to focus on protection, control, and self-buffing. Furies are features that can only be used while Raging, and involve getting to other creatures and hurting them.

    While you are Calm, you can use any chant from any of your masteries. However, when you begin Gathering, you must choose a single storm mastery to focus on. This makes your chants more powerful, and eventually allows you to use your destructive furies. At higher levels, you can focus on multiple storm masteries at once, making your personal storms uniquely destructive and difficult to counter.
    SO I had to read this twice to get it... but it seems a genuinely cool mechanic. Sarting to get why there is also a gost to staying in a given storm-stage. Maybe. I also seriously love the anticipated feel of evolving with the fight to focus in on a specific aspect of your storm and to really take he fight to the enemy, going from a bit of a generalist... then (possibly) returning to a stage where you can heal and shore up defences and recover to go again (for epic fights).


    Blizzard
    Blizzards are prolonged, wide-spread storms of snow and ice. While focusing on your blizzard mastery, the air around you grows cold and a light rime coats you and your equipment.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Blizzard Die
    You may have your Storm Die deal cold damage while focusing on this mastery.

    Rimeforge
    Level 2 - Chant
    You can use an action to call upon a flash of fortifying rime that shields your allies. Up to three creatures other than you within 30 feet of you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier plus a roll of your Storm Die. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute.

    If you are Gathering, you also gain these temporary hit points.

    At 7th level, add your storm herald level to the temporary hit points from this feature.

    At 17th level, while these temporary hit points persist, creatures receive a +2 bonus to Armor Class.
    Spoiler
    Show


    This seems... very powerful. As an acton you start to add (at level 2) about 10 HP to the party. At level 10 that is an action to potentially add about 60 HP to the party. Yes it needs an action but its not limited number of times per day. For all you might miss out on attacking, this kind of extra HP seems better under most circumstances.



    Concealing Fog
    Level 2 - Fury
    A cold, swirling fog billows forth from you while you rage, blocking sight from far away. Creatures consider you heavily obscured unless they are adjacent to you, though they can still use the moving fog to pinpoint your position.

    At the start of a creature’s turn, if they are adjacent to you, they take cold damage equal to 1 roll of your Storm Die.
    Well the damage isn't much, but forcing spellcasters to clsoe with you to target you with their spells is going to swing fights against this type of enemy.



    Storm’s Reach
    Level 7 - Fury
    Like the great blizzards, your reach extends long. Your reach is 10 feet greater while focusing on this mastery.
    I mean its good and its useful, and it doesn't need an action... and it seems to work with PAM+Sentinel which is a bit crazy good... Absoultely a nice feature to have on call.


    Whiteout
    Level 17 - Fury
    As an action, you can call upon a massive ice storm which rages for 3 rounds or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).

    This storm is composed of freezing rain and sleet in a 20-foot tall cylinder with a 40-foot radius centered on you, which follows you as you move. The area is heavily obscured and difficult terrain. Exposed flames in the area are doused.

    When a creature starts its turn in the area, it must make a Dexterity saving throw and a Constitution saving throw. On a failed Dexterity save, it falls prone. It takes 4d6 cold damage on a failed Constitution save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

    After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
    I think this is awesome. No limit to uses, but some hoops to jump through to get it back. Light damage for level 17 but adding a flavourful control element and the double save... I don't think a mosnter would expend a legendary resistance on this unless desperate though. As part of a broad package, this is very cool.



    Cyclone
    Cyclones are storms of swirling wind and clouds, generating heavy rain, wind, and lightning. While focusing on the cyclone mastery, lightning forms around you and your footsteps leave the echoes of thunder.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Cyclone Die
    You may have your Storm Die deal lightning damage while focusing on this mastery.

    Dark Lightning
    Level 2 - Chant
    As an action, you may conjure a blast of lightning from the skies. Select a 5-foot cube within 30 feet of you. Each creature within that cube must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes lightning damage equal to 3 rolls of your Storm Die, or half as much damage on a successful one.

    If you are Gathering, you may then appear within 5 feet of the chosen space. You can use this feature only if you haven’t moved this turn, and after you use this feature your movement speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.

    At 7th level, the range of this feature increases to 120 feet and the damage improves to 4 rolls of your Storm Die.

    At 17th level, the range of this feature increases to 600 feet and the damage improves to 6 rolls of your Storm Die.
    Spoiler
    Show

    This is where I totally reavaluate some bits of the class. I had mentally thought of it as a martial class with some nice cool abilities bolted on to do some more stuff. This makes me think of the class as an armoured blaster, with other support tools - like the cleric, but tougher and more damaging. OK, is a bit of an exageration but 4d8 damage at level 7... at 120ft. Its very good for a class that brings so much other stuff (and its not like an attack with 0 on a miss, its half damage on a save).

    Also, an easy 120f teleport like this is very nice to have.

    Lightning Strikes
    Level 2 - Fury
    When you strike, lightning arcs from your target to another creature. When you hit with a melee weapon attack, lightning leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes lightning damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

    At 7th level, add your Storm Die to this damage.
    Its one of those features that is maybe a bit weak by iteself but is a useful adition as part of a broad selection of abilities.

    Weapon of Lightning
    Level 7 - Fury
    When you wield a melee weapon, it gains the Thrown (60 / 120) property. When thrown this way, the weapon becomes a bolt of lightning that arcs from you towards your target, then returns to you. The damage type of the weapon is lightning damage during this throw, and the weapon flies back to your hand after the attack is complete.
    So its level 7, which is safely midgame for most adventures I have seen. Still, it lets you take a greatsword and fling it out 60ft with each attack? This is cool.

    Lightning Leap
    Level 17 - Fury
    As an action, you may turn yourself into a bolt of lightning. This line is as wide as you are, rounding to the nearest 5 feet, and can be of any length from 10 feet to 120 feet. Creatures within the line must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 6d6 lightning damage, or half as much on a successful one.

    You then appear in any space adjacent to the end of the line, along with any gear you are wearing or carrying, up to a maximum of your heavy load limit.

    After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
    Getting UA Mystic vibes here.
    OK, but not crazy good for level 17.



    Sandstorm
    Sandstorms are gusts of loose sand and dirt, raised into turbulent clouds. While focusing on the duststorm mastery, stones and dirt around you pick up in the winds and begin to swirl around you.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Sandstorm Die
    You may have your Storm Die deal magical slashing damage while focusing on this mastery.

    Choking Clouds
    Level 2 - Chant
    As an action, you can agitate rocks, dust, and sand in an area, forming a short-lived cloud of swirling particulates. You create a 20-foot tall, 5-foot radius cylinder of circulating dust. This cylinder persists for 1 minute, or until another cylinder is created. A creature other than you that enters the dust storm or starts its turn there takes slashing damage equal to a roll of your Storm Die.

    If you are Gathering or using the One Thousand Cuts feature, this cloud is particularly vicious. A creature that takes damage from the cylinder must make a Constitution saving throw or be temporarily distracted for 1 round. During this time, the creature is considered blinded if it needs to see beyond 10 feet.

    At 7th level, the radius of the cylinder becomes 15 feet and the damage improves to two rolls of your Storm Die.

    At 17th level, when you create one of these cylinders, you may choose to make any number of creatures immune to their damage. The damage improves to four rolls of your Storm Die.
    Spoiler
    Show


    Damage is pretty modest again, but the blinded conditon is nasty. Even 10ft vision wil give all your party archers advantage... ever wanted to play a grappler. This is a serious buff to throw about.



    One Thousand Cuts
    Level 2 - Fury
    While you are raging, the area within 5 feet of you is surrounded by a small sandstorm. The effects of this sandstorm are the same as the one created by your Choking Cloud feature.
    This almost seems weak? I guess you move it with you and you still hep party archers.


    Dissipate
    Level 7 - Fury
    When you are dealt damage by a target you can see, you may use a reaction to become part of your swirling sandstorm, granting you resistance to that damage.
    Similar to the rogues uncanny dodge. But it does more than attacks and you need to see the other creature... and it doesn't stack with resistance. Still a small part of a selection being about on par with a major level 5 class feature of the rogue seems rough.

    Invade the Body
    Level 17 - Fury
    As an action, you may channel the sand and dust from your sandstorm into a stream of particles that invades a creature’s body and ravages it from the inside out. A creature adjacent to you must make 2 Constitution saving throws.

    A creature that fails both saving throws takes 6d6 magical slashing damage and is stunned until the end of your next turn. A creature that fails one of the saving throws takes the damage but isn’t stunned. A creature that succeeds on both throws takes half of the damage.

    After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
    Nasty... but seems fair for a level 17 ability.


    Squall
    Squalls are gusts of sudden, violent wind. While focusing on the squall mastery, a rising breeze forms around you.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Squall Die
    You may have your Storm Die deal thunder damage while focusing on this mastery.

    Soar upon the Wind
    Level 2 - Chant
    As an action, you can grant your allies a boon of speed. Until the end of your next turn, up to 3 other creatures of your choice add 1d4 to their attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws.

    If you are Gathering, this bonus also applies to you.

    At 7th level, affected creatures also gain a flying speed equal to their movement speed.

    At 17th level, affected creatures can spend 5 feet of movement to escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or creatures that have them grappled.
    [spoiler]

    Realatively innocuous. Some buffs tha you can sustain if not doing other combat stuff, some mobility boosts from the party that are great but situational.



    Derecho
    Level 2 - Fury
    Your movement speed is increased by 30 feet and you do not provoke opportunity attacks.

    This bonus is doubled at 7th level (60 feet) and 17th level (120 feet).
    With easy access to a flying speed (and this doesn't specify walking) this looks like an ideal tool for dropping enemies from a great height with a grappler. Dashing for 120ft will quickly get you to lethal altitudes for most enemies.



    Shockwave
    Level 7 - Fury
    When you move, you can leave a brief vacuum that collapses. At the end of your turn, each creature that was within 5 feet of you while you moved must make a Constitution saving throw. A creature takes thunder damage equal to three rolls of your Storm Die on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.
    Something that does this much damage but no action neded? Just movement? I guess it really is like spirit guardians with 3d8 damage, no action needed... as an undispellable, no resource ability?
    Microburst
    Level 17 - Fury
    As an action, you can call a powerful downdraft. Choose a circle with an area of 10 feet. You move in the perimeter of that circle, and then call a gushing stream of wind downwards into that circle. Each creature within the circle has its speed set to 0 until the start of your next turn.

    After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
    A zero save, zero legendary resistance protected way of pinning down the tarrasque? If you are supposed to move round the outside of the circle of diameter 10ft as part of the action, you had better not be a dwarf. If its radus 10ft then I can't think of a race that can. If the area is 10 square ft... then easier.



    Well wonderful GitP forum lost everything I had written from here down when I tried o post. Maybe, if I feel inclined I will rewrite the rest of my comments and wrap up conclusions again later. Maybe not.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    @MrStabby thanks for the review. I'm embarrassed that I didn't get it finished. I'll complete it and post it after voting ends.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Appreciate the detailed look, MrStabby. What you wrote gives me plenty to chew on. I'll see if I can give you my impression of your class before the voting thread goes up.

    Edit: I am stupid lol. It's already up.
    Last edited by Just to Browse; 2023-09-20 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by animorte View Post
    Better before considering no edits are allowed during the voting phase.
    Welp. I missed that deadline.

    There goes my wish to actually provide feedback on every piece of content! I hadn't kept up with how time was sliding by - with the extension I figured I had plenty of time as I wasn't making many changes.


    I need to reread and digest all of them anyway.




    Its pretty difficult to objectively judge any of these. So much is personal preference. Still, I thought I would try and articulate that to help keep me honest and to explain some choices that might otherwise seem odd:

    1) Something I would want to play mechanically. So yeah, subjective but a balance of good activated abilities, passive abilities and feeling that my character is mechanically disinct from others. Progresson that feels rewarding - a nice trickle of new abilities that add to what the class can do (rather than just increasing numbers), abilities appropriate to level of play. Also nice if the abiities are cumulative - its nice if at level 16 you can still feel you are getting value from an ability you got at level 2, it ads to the feeling of continuity.

    2) Something I would like to play alongside as a player. So a class that is at risk of outshining another player or obviating the game-plan of another class is bad. So things like haning out advantage to easily undermines rogues and barbarians, anything handing out too many temp HP (like say a Twilight Cleric) obviates healing classes. Obviously everything does this to an extent, so its a matter of degree. Does the class have abilities that just end an encouner - it might be "balanced" if its once per day, but still (subjectively) not fun to play alongside. Less common is drawbacks - a weakness that distorts play; one example might be tings like mechanics that sacrifice HP for power and force other players to coddle the PC or to sacrifice their own healing to stay in the game (exceptions can be made for classes that have strong defences and they end up no more vulnerable than others (raging barbarian with reckless attack for example))

    3) Something I would want at my table when I DM. This is a number of things... one is raw power. Is it too powerful or too weak. Then there is how the power is distributed - in part will it dominate some encounters as above, but also how much work I have to do as a DM to keep things in line. A class that is weak but can kill bugbears and brown oozes with a glance is going to be a pain to keep fun for everyone in a lot of encounters. A class with a mix of short and long rest resources, combat and non-combat abilities, offensive and defensive options is likily to give me a lot of freedom as a DM to tweak things so that the class feels special whilst keeping power levels constant.

    4) Flavour and theme. Almost entirely subjective. I like a strong fantasy element. I like classes that feel disinct from others, that say something about the world/setting. I like classes that feel like a class rather than an attempt to recrate a single character or instance of a class.


    Reading back I feel this strongly favours something that is ready to play over something with really great ideas but is maybe a bit imbalanced or needs a few tweaks in wording to eal with unintended consequences. I kind of feel this is wrong, but also the alternative of cuttin a bit more slack runs into questions of "how much". I guess that all of this is a long way of saying I have little actual idea of what I am trying to do when it comes to voting.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    Welp. I missed that deadline.

    There goes my wish to actually provide feedback on every piece of content! I hadn't kept up with how time was sliding by - with the extension I figured I had plenty of time as I wasn't making many changes.


    snip
    I'd still appreciate any feedback you have when you get the chance.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I'd still appreciate any feedback you have when you get the chance.
    You are welcome to it. Hopefully get some time later this evening.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    What would folks think about adding a new line to the contest guidelines to cover this?
    Check the OP.

    I will also be including this as part of future contests. Very nicely put!
    Something Borrowed - Submission Thread (5e subclass contest)

    TeamWork Makes the Dream Work 5e Base Class Submission Thread




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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Alright, so Conjuration Wizard. What if I just want to be Teleporter guy or spacewarp magic guy? Here's the Sojourner.

    Sojourner


    An elf reaches forward, the tips of their fingers seeming to dissolve into multihued sparks, a swift rending motion tears a hole in space and perspective itself and they step into tear, exiting a dozen paces away from the leviathan threatening her. As the creature steps into the portal in pursuit, the edges slam together, tearing it apart.

    Ranfingle the Lighthearted was stuck in the closet of his most recent love. Cornered by their justifiably angry spouse he lacked pants or weapon to defend himself from the vengeful fellow’s drawn blade. With little choice he drew the Aether Flow into himself. It burned in a familiar and unpleasant fashion and his rude physical flesh tainted it, giving it a thick and grotesque quality. It would spill out of him in a semi-corporeal form and lurch to and fro over his foe, consuming them.

    Bannerford hadn’t intended to be a courier, as a youth he thought his arts were destined for far greater things, but had settled into a rather mundane life carrying gifts back and forth for diplomats. It wasn’t until a princess begged to be smuggled out her father’s castle. All of a sudden he found himself carrying her, and her handmaid, and her cat, and even her pony through the castle walls, all while being chased by the guards that he realized just how foolish his younger self had been. Never the less, he could not stop smiling…

    A Sojourner is one attuned to ebb and flow of Aether. Some call it the source of magic, Sojourners know it more as a layer of existence separate from Substance. Rocks, air, food, all matter is Substance. The energies bound in the planes are born of substance. Aether is not substance. Despite appearing to most to flow from place to place, as it is not substance it does not actually take up space so traveling through it is instantaneous. Sojourner’s of an academic bent will spend hours each day observing the Aether. A few have come away with the same sense, that moving through it is like backing away from a mirror and watching themselves move ever closer to the glass.

    Despite this soporific trivia, it is clear Aether has a fundamental relationship with magic and the Sojourner’s arts. Where spellcasters gather this power for a dizzying array of effects, a Sojourner’s connection is rooted in their capacity to move through it, understand it, and manipulate it. Every Sojourner discovers certain spells, but while no more effective, they are always far more elegant in their execution than those cast by wizards or sorcerers.


    Class Table
    1. Aethersight, Flow Step, Expertise
    2. Defensive Teleport, Tesseract
    3. Archetype Feature
    4. Feat
    5. Impel Foe
    6. Archetype Feature
    7. Aether Exchange
    8. Feat
    9. Forge Gate
    10. Archetype Feature
    11. Baleful Teleport
    12. Feat
    13. Deep Dive
    14. Archetype Feature
    15. Evasive Teleport
    16. Feat
    17. Maze
    18. Infinite Steps
    19. Feat
    20. Hungering Gate

    Saves: Dex, Cha
    HD: D8
    Wpns: Simple
    Armor: Light
    Skills: Arcana or Nature and two of the following: Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Nature, Perception, Stealth, Survival
    I was a little surprised - thinking of the wizard subclass I had expected intelligence to feature more strongly. Not a bad thing, but a surprise. Dex saves... good on a d8 HD character I guess. Light armour, simple weapons... clearly not a warrior, yet still much better than a wizard in this regard.





    Aethersight
    Beginning at 1st level you become attuned to the Aether Flow, an omnipresent series of currents of raw magical power that flows around and through everything. This gives you the ability to cast the spells below when you reach the listed levels in this class. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells and determines your spell attack bonus and save DC for other spells or features granted by this class. You have a number of uses of this feature equal to your Wisdom Modifier. Casting a spell of 3rd level or below consumes one use of this feature, casting Truesight consumes two uses.
    1. Detect Magic
    3. Darkvision
    5. See Invisible
    11. Truesight

    Expertise
    At 1st level you gain expertise in one of the following skills. Acrobatics, Athletics, Stealth, or Survival. You can choose another skill from this list at level 10.

    Flow Step
    At 1st level you have the ability to step into the Aether Flow and exit a short distance away. As an action you can teleport a distance up to 5 feet for each Class level. If you end this teleportation in a space occupied by a creature or solid object, you suffer 1d10 force damage and are ejected to the nearest empty space. You take an additional 1d10 damage for every 10 feet you are moved.
    You can enhance this Teleportation in two ways.
    - When you teleport as an action, you can expend a use of this feature to take another creature no more than one size larger than yourself with you.
    - You can expend a use of this feature to teleport as a bonus action to an empty space within range you can see, when you do, you have advantage on the first attack you make before the end of that turn.

    For these enhancements you have a number of uses of this feature equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) and regain all uses when you complete a long rest. Other features granted by this class or your Archetype may provide additional ways to expend uses of this feature.
    First level(s) is hard. Trying to get a set of abilities that define the class yet are not overpowered as a dip on a multiclass is very tricky. Geting both in and out of combat features crammed into the early levels is tricky.


    Aethersight is interesing. Mostly a divination tool and giving some limited casting here provides some versatility. Not broken as a dip, though 5 castings of detect magic is a lot for 1 level... or it woul be if it were not a ritual. I feel something like scrying could also fit the theme here.

    Expertise is a nice ability for low level - defines a role/theme for the character and naturally scales with proficiency. I think it does a good job here, nailing down the feel of the class. Its not arcana or religion or an academic persuit. It may begin as a wizard but this combined with wisdom not int as the casting stat is sending me a message.

    Flow step... this seems to be the activity that defines the class at early levels. Easy teleport from such low levels is pretty cool and with no opportunity cost is nce to encourage use.

    At level 1, you have no additional way to influence combat. No combat spells, no cantrips, no martial weapons, no sneak attack, fighting style or anything like that. It feels you teleport around... but so what? Still, level 1 is over in a flash. The only thing you have is advantage a few times per long rest.




    Defensive Teleport
    At 2nd level you can use your Flow Step feature to avoid an attack. Before the attack roll is made you can expend a use of your Flow Step to use your reaction to Teleport up to half the normal distance. If your new location provides cover you gain that bonus to your Armor Class and if this takes you beyond the reach or range of the attack, it misses.

    Tesseract
    At 2nd level you also learn to create a kind of Aetheric Pool that circulates around you. As an action you can place small and smaller objects into this pool which can hold a total weight of no more than 10 x your Class level pounds. While in your Tesseract the objects have total cover and cannot be perceived without the aid of magic such as See Invisible or Truesight though other divinations such as locate object will detect such an object in your space.
    You can remove an object as an action or use your action to cause all your stored items to fall into your space. If you die, anyitems you have stored are lost in the Aether, destined to turn up in locations far distant or even on other planes.
    Defensive teleport is a neat defensive feature, though why you are getting close to enemies that want to hurt you is an open queston - you have no abilities that really benefit from being close by and with no reason to invest in dex and no good armour proficiency there is little point in you tanking.

    Tesseract seems a bit of a ribbon. Not quite sure what its intended to be used for that pockets couldn't.

    Still feeling the lack of proacive abilities to go ou and change the world. Even out of combat it seems to lack the ability to push a campaign forwards in any special way.




    Archetype
    At 3rd level you discover an uncommon means by which to interact with the Aether Flows. Choose one of the following: Bogman, Trailblazer, Evenflow. Your Archetype grants additional features at levels 6, 10, and 14.
    Will Examine later, thouh its worth noting that there are some proactive abilities to help deal with hostile situations here in the subclass.


    Feat
    At levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 you can choose a feat

    Impel Foe
    At 5th level you learn to force creatures you touch into the Aether Flow where they are carried a short distance away. As an action you can force a creature you touch no more than one size larger than yourself to make a Constitution saving throw or be teleported up to half the distance your Flow Step normally allows to an unoccupied space you can see. A creature teleported to a surface that cannot support it, falls.
    Impel Foe... at the time other classes get things like extra attack and level 3 spells the Sojurner gets the abiliy to teleport enemies. In the right campagn this might be great, if you can drop people into voids or other hazards but flow step is 5ft per level. Impel Foe is 5ft per 2 levels. If you want to hurt people with faling damage you are going to need a LOT of levels. Telekinetic feat, repelling blast, the shove action... they all seem like they arguably could be better till quite high levels.



    Aetheric Exchange
    Beginning at 7th level, when you use your Flow Step feature, you can choose to teleport into the space of a willing creature in range as that creature is teleported into the space you left.
    At this point I am seeing a lot of teleport, but not a lot of So What. It seems like the class is an ideal class for someone who wans to tag along and watch the rest of the party solve problems but doesn't really want to be part of solving them themselves.

    It feels a bit unrewarding.

    Getting a payoff for being good at what you do should be built in; for example roges get sneak attack, they can get expertise in stealth and have cunning action to more easily hide. I think the class could use an effect where being teleported lets you do something to impact the world - preferably a combat ability.



    Forge Jaunt-Gate
    At 9th level you learn to create Jaunt Gates of your own. You learn the Teleportation Circle spell. You can cast this spell once and must complete a long rest before doing so again.
    What other classes get as a spell - a minor part of lvelling up, you have to spend a cass feaure on. Sure, its great in a strategic role, but I think D&D isn't the type of game that deals with these activities well.



    Baleful Teleport
    Beginning at 11th level, when you use your Impel Foe feature, you no longer need to see their destination or choose an unoccupied space. Targets that are teleported into solid objects or structures like the ground or walls suffer 3d10 Force damage and are restrained. A creature occupying the space the target is teleported into must make a dexterity save or also suffer 3d10 Force damage and be Grappled. Success on the dexterity save allows the second creature to be moved to the nearest adjacent space as the original target appears. Any creature restrained or Grappled by this effect can end the condition if a creature uses their actio to make an Athletics or Acrobatics test against your Spell Save DC. After escaping, a creature within an object or structure is ejected to the nearest empty space.
    OK. Level 11. Now we get a class specific way to ruin bad guys. Dumping someone into the floor is good, but this is a level 11 class feature. 3d10 force damage and some restraint as an acton is good as a backup ability, but con saves are frequently bad saves to target and the damage is pretty minimal. So at best its 5 times per day and you have no useful attacks or sells to use for backup from the main class.




    Aether Dives
    At 13th level you can choose to only partially enter the Aether Flow or descend into ever greater depths. You learn the spells Etherealness and Planeshift. You can use this feature to cast one of these spells and target only yourself. You regain the use of this feature when you complete a long rest.
    Again we seem to be heavily lowballing the class features. Whils classes like the wizard are geing the spells known and the spell slots to cast spells like this, the Sojurner gets the ability to do this oncce per long rest as a whole class feature.



    Evasive Teleport
    At 15th level, you may now use your reaction to expend a use of your Flow step feature to teleport whenever you would be damaged. If this movement takes you beyond the reach or range of the damage source or outside its area of effect, you take no damage.
    Its a very small pool of resource you are putting a lot of pressure on... for a class that probably doesn't even want to be using this feature anyway.


    Aetheric Prison
    Beginning at 17th level you can temporarily banish a target into the Aether similar to the manner in which you store small objects. You learn the Maze spell and can cast it once. You regain the use of this feature after a long rest.
    OK great... but again a wizard can have this spell and the spell slot and can use the slot for other things and can learn other spells... just seems like a strictly worse feature than wizard got at level 15.




    Infinite Steps
    At 18th level and beyond, whenever you roll initiative, you regain 2 uses of your Flow Step feature up to your normal maximum.
    Given how restrictive the resource pool is, this seems like a huge step... but none of the resources do enouh to justify this bein a major late-game feature.




    Hungering Gate
    At 20th level your reach cannot exceed your grasp. You learn the Gate spell. While the Gate persists you can use your action to move it up to 20 feet and rotate it up to 180 degrees. If these manipulations would cause the Gate to wholly engulf a creature’s space, it can make a Dexterity saving throw to avoid being sent to the plane of existence on the other side. On a success the target is moved to the nearest adjacent space, on a failure, the target is sent to the other plane. You can use this feature to cast this spell once and regain its use when you complete a long rest.
    Same problem again... you get a fun spell, but late and without the flexability other classes do.



    Bogman
    Unlike other Sojourners who learn to more efficiently manipulate or move amid the Aether, you use your rude flesh to taint it, creating pockets of sluggish morass that slorp to and fro as desctructive goo known as Ectoplasm.

    Ectoplasmoid
    At 3rd level you learn to draw the Aether into and through yourself, tainting it with your crude matter. You can use your action to expel a mass that has the statistics of a Psychic Gray Ooze. The ooze has hit points equal to 5 times your class level and adds your Proficiency bonus to its attack rolls, damage, and the DC of its Psychic Crush.

    The ooze is friendly to you and your allies and follows your mental commands (no action required by you) to the best of its ability. In combat, it shares your initiative taking its turn immediately after yours. When you use your Flow Step feature you can choose to have the ooze teleport instead of yourself.

    The ooze continues to exist until reduced to 0 hit points or you use this feature again. You can summon an Ooze in this way once and must complete a short or long rest before doing so again.
    Kind of love the flavour... but I could get why some might not. Still, its a combat ability and lets you do something cool that other classes don't. I think this kind of thing is what the class needs more of. Still, the Grey Ooze seems more combat capable than the PC.





    Slime Clones
    At 6th level you are no longer limited to a grotesque mass of tainted goo, but can cause shimmering duplicates of yourself to appear. Using this ability covers you in a cleaner ectoplasm making you indistinguishable from the duplicates. You can cast Mirror Image as a bonus action. You can use this feature twice and regain both uses when you complete a short or long rest.
    In a vacuum, another OK ability... Geting two castings of a level 2 spell at level 6. The ability of the cass to b proactive is so low though, that no sane enemy that has a sense of party capabilities would ever target a sojurner.




    Aether Bog
    At 10th level you can pollute a wide area with heavy unnavigable Aether. As an Action you can create a 60 ft radius stationary sphere of dense and wretched Aether which remains for 1 hour. Teleportation effects originating from creatures other than you within the sphere fail. Effects originating outside the sphere stop short at the sphere’s edge unless the creature employing them succeeds on a Charisma saving throw vs your Spell DC. This tainted Aether also has a negative impact on magic items. Magic items with one use or that rely on charges may fail to function inside the sphere. Creatures wielding such items can make a Charisma Saving throw against your spell DC as part of their use. A success allows the item to be used normally, a failure prevents the item from taking effect but no charges or uses are wasted.

    You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a long rest.
    Yes! Another cool ability, not found on other classes and a great way to influence a game... once per day. And its a bit niche. A cool ability not not something that fixes the power gulf.



    Slime-ulacrum
    At 14th level your ectoplasmic doppelgangers need no longer be flimsy images popped with a single blow. As an action you can cast Simulacrum targeting yourself requiring no components. When cast in this way the spell’s duration is 1 minute. You can use this feature once and must complete a long rest before doing so again.
    Simulacrum for a minute once per day... it would be useful if you could target somone else.




    Trailblazer
    As a Trailblazer you focus on the finer arts necessary to swiftly create temporary Jauntways. You’ll create tunnels through the Aether through which other creatures can pass and even learn to slam them shut, even as a foe is still passing through.

    Aether Tunnel
    At 3rd level when you use your Flow Step feature as an action, instead of teleporting you can punch a hole through the boundary between Substance and Aether creating an entrance up to 5 feet wide to a tunnel of corscating light and consuming darkness that spirals away into the distance. One end of the tunnel appears in a space you can see adjacent to you, and the other entrance matches the size of the first and appears in a space you can see within the range of your Flow Step.

    Despite its seeming infinite length, entering and exiting the tunnel requires a total of 5 feet of movement and the tunnel lingers until the end of your turn. Attacks made with Ranged or Reach weapons through the tunnel have disadvantage.

    If you expend a use of your Flow Step feature you can extend the duration of this Tunnel to the beginning of your next turn.
    Why? What is this for?



    Tunnel Bite
    At 6th level, when a creature or object enters your Aether Tunnel you can use your reaction to cause it to snap shut. A creature caught in the tunnel this way must succeed on a dexterity saving throw or suffer 3d12 Force damage and be ejected at an end of your choosing. Mundane objects caught in this effect are destroyed. A successful save halves the damage and the target can choose which side they’re ejected to. The damage dealt by this feature increases to 5d12 at 11th level and 6d12 at 17th.
    OK, its a nasty trap... but how often are enemies going to see a shimmering portal to who knows where and think its a great place to st
    ick their head inside?

    Hithering
    At 10th level the flexibility of your Aether Tunnels is improved in the following ways.
    - Your tunnel entrances can now be up to 15 feet wide.
    - When you create a tunnel with entrances of 1 foot in diameter or less, you can attempt sleight of hand checks through the tunnel.
    - Attacks through the tunnel with Ranged or Reach weapons at creatures you choose are made with advantage.
    Now once per turn you can attack with advantage. Still less good than having extra attack...

    Thithering
    At 14th level your Aether Tunnels can be rendered extremely stable and highly elastic, increasing their range and their impact on transit. You can cast Arcane Gate without the need for components. For the duration of the spell you can use your action to reposition or reorient either of the gates as you see fit, even attaching them to mobile objects like the face of a shield or back of a painting. As long as both portals remain within 500 feet of each other the spell will persist. You can cast the spell once and must complete a long rest or expend two uses of your Flow Step feature to cast the spell in this way again.
    So this is poentially broken. This is the same class of ability as illusionary reality - it will reward creativity but might unwind a campaign in the wrong hands.

    Evenflow
    You have discovered how to even more efficiently manage the complex Aetheric interactions needed to maintain your Tesseract. This leads to a less potent means of containing foes in the Aether, but you’ll have access to such a power far earlier than peers. Ultimately your Tesseract will become a wondrous

    Aetheric Vault
    Beginning at 3rd level your Tesseract expands by a significant volume. The maximum weight it can hold is multiplied by 100 and you can store objects of Large size and smaller.
    This seems like an ability that is as good as the DM allows it to be. Depending on what you can get away with, this could be quite good.



    Invigorating Tesseract
    At 6th level your Tesseract can be used to hold living creatures. As an Action you can place a number of willing creatures into the Tesseract equal to your proficiency bonus, including yourself. The Tesseract can hold any number of creatures that do not exceed its total weight limit or size restrictions. The Tesseract has up to 10 minutes of air per Class level divided among all those within. Aether within your Tesseract moves through and around the creatures inside restoring their vital essence. Creatures that complete a short rest within your Tesseract require only 10 minutes to do so. A creature can only benefit from this aspect of the feature once and must complete a long rest before doing so again. Exiting the Tesseract uses the same rules for taking out objects.
    A cool, useful ability like the Genie warlock. Great for exploration, bad for everything else as it doesn't seem to offset the class weaknesses at all.





    Aethereal Jailer
    At 10th level you touch upon a technique every Sojourner eventually masters, but far sooner.
    You learn the Banish spell. You can cast this spell a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, minimum 1. You can target more than one creature when you cast the spell. Each additional target requires you to expend an additional use of the feature. You regain all uses of this feature when you complete a long rest.
    Banishment is a good spell but... Geting it once per long rest at level 10 is three levels later than you could get it with another class. Still, multiple castings and it does upcast. The cool thing is that you can outdo other classes in this one regard - casting equivalent of a level 9 banishment at level 10.





    Magnificent Museum
    At 14th level your Tesseract becomes a massive structure that can store a lifetime’s worth of trophies. You learn the Magnificent Mansion spell and can cast it once. Each time you cast the spell, items in your Tesseract can appear in the mansion arranged as you desire.
    Well this is cool. A realy nice place to settle down once you have finished being an adventurer.






    All in all this wouldn't be to my tastes. I won't deny it has a lot of useful features for the exploration pilar of the game, but like the ranger if it is good at making those problems disapear there isn't much table time given over to them. Nothing much to help with social and a near total lack of support for combat means probably feeling a bit of a wasted character in a lot of sessons. A lot of features seem to just be worse versions of spellcasting progression with a cripplingly restrictive selection of spells and a great lack of flexability. For an exploration only game its good - but the moment a character decides to start swinging a sword, I worry it will be unrewarding.

    And the bookkeeping. Can you imagine what a character sheet would look like with all the different resources to track so many times per different duration of rest...

    Its possible you could almost add the spellcasting feature to the class (with an appropriate spell list) and it would still only be slightly overpowered.

    I am not seeing the playstyle here. To whom is it supposed to appeal? What party role?

    Flavour is great. I can kind of feel the class, but it feels a bit like an NPC class to me. As someone who enjoys teleportaton anre the real arcane feel to it, I do love hat side.. So often homebrew seems too combat focussed with no out of combat support; this seems the opposite.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    I was a little surprised - thinking of the wizard subclass I had expected intelligence to feature more strongly. Not a bad thing, but a surprise. Dex saves... good on a d8 HD character I guess. Light armour, simple weapons... clearly not a warrior, yet still much better than a wizard in this regard.







    First level(s) is hard. Trying to get a set of abilities that define the class yet are not overpowered as a dip on a multiclass is very tricky. Geting both in and out of combat features crammed into the early levels is tricky.


    Aethersight is interesing. Mostly a divination tool and giving some limited casting here provides some versatility. Not broken as a dip, though 5 castings of detect magic is a lot for 1 level... or it woul be if it were not a ritual. I feel something like scrying could also fit the theme here.

    Expertise is a nice ability for low level - defines a role/theme for the character and naturally scales with proficiency. I think it does a good job here, nailing down the feel of the class. Its not arcana or religion or an academic persuit. It may begin as a wizard but this combined with wisdom not int as the casting stat is sending me a message.

    Flow step... this seems to be the activity that defines the class at early levels. Easy teleport from such low levels is pretty cool and with no opportunity cost is nce to encourage use.

    At level 1, you have no additional way to influence combat. No combat spells, no cantrips, no martial weapons, no sneak attack, fighting style or anything like that. It feels you teleport around... but so what? Still, level 1 is over in a flash. The only thing you have is advantage a few times per long rest.






    Defensive teleport is a neat defensive feature, though why you are getting close to enemies that want to hurt you is an open queston - you have no abilities that really benefit from being close by and with no reason to invest in dex and no good armour proficiency there is little point in you tanking.

    Tesseract seems a bit of a ribbon. Not quite sure what its intended to be used for that pockets couldn't.

    Still feeling the lack of proacive abilities to go ou and change the world. Even out of combat it seems to lack the ability to push a campaign forwards in any special way.





    Will Examine later, thouh its worth noting that there are some proactive abilities to help deal with hostile situations here in the subclass.




    Impel Foe... at the time other classes get things like extra attack and level 3 spells the Sojurner gets the abiliy to teleport enemies. In the right campagn this might be great, if you can drop people into voids or other hazards but flow step is 5ft per level. Impel Foe is 5ft per 2 levels. If you want to hurt people with faling damage you are going to need a LOT of levels. Telekinetic feat, repelling blast, the shove action... they all seem like they arguably could be better till quite high levels.




    At this point I am seeing a lot of teleport, but not a lot of So What. It seems like the class is an ideal class for someone who wans to tag along and watch the rest of the party solve problems but doesn't really want to be part of solving them themselves.

    It feels a bit unrewarding.

    Getting a payoff for being good at what you do should be built in; for example roges get sneak attack, they can get expertise in stealth and have cunning action to more easily hide. I think the class could use an effect where being teleported lets you do something to impact the world - preferably a combat ability.




    What other classes get as a spell - a minor part of lvelling up, you have to spend a cass feaure on. Sure, its great in a strategic role, but I think D&D isn't the type of game that deals with these activities well.





    OK. Level 11. Now we get a class specific way to ruin bad guys. Dumping someone into the floor is good, but this is a level 11 class feature. 3d10 force damage and some restraint as an acton is good as a backup ability, but con saves are frequently bad saves to target and the damage is pretty minimal. So at best its 5 times per day and you have no useful attacks or sells to use for backup from the main class.






    Again we seem to be heavily lowballing the class features. Whils classes like the wizard are geing the spells known and the spell slots to cast spells like this, the Sojurner gets the ability to do this oncce per long rest as a whole class feature.




    Its a very small pool of resource you are putting a lot of pressure on... for a class that probably doesn't even want to be using this feature anyway.



    OK great... but again a wizard can have this spell and the spell slot and can use the slot for other things and can learn other spells... just seems like a strictly worse feature than wizard got at level 15.






    Given how restrictive the resource pool is, this seems like a huge step... but none of the resources do enouh to justify this bein a major late-game feature.






    Same problem again... you get a fun spell, but late and without the flexability other classes do.





    Kind of love the flavour... but I could get why some might not. Still, its a combat ability and lets you do something cool that other classes don't. I think this kind of thing is what the class needs more of. Still, the Grey Ooze seems more combat capable than the PC.







    In a vacuum, another OK ability... Geting two castings of a level 2 spell at level 6. The ability of the cass to b proactive is so low though, that no sane enemy that has a sense of party capabilities would ever target a sojurner.





    Yes! Another cool ability, not found on other classes and a great way to influence a game... once per day. And its a bit niche. A cool ability not not something that fixes the power gulf.




    Simulacrum for a minute once per day... it would be useful if you could target somone else.






    Why? What is this for?




    OK, its a nasty trap... but how often are enemies going to see a shimmering portal to who knows where and think its a great place to st
    ick their head inside?


    Now once per turn you can attack with advantage. Still less good than having extra attack...


    So this is poentially broken. This is the same class of ability as illusionary reality - it will reward creativity but might unwind a campaign in the wrong hands.



    This seems like an ability that is as good as the DM allows it to be. Depending on what you can get away with, this could be quite good.





    A cool, useful ability like the Genie warlock. Great for exploration, bad for everything else as it doesn't seem to offset the class weaknesses at all.







    Banishment is a good spell but... Geting it once per long rest at level 10 is three levels later than you could get it with another class. Still, multiple castings and it does upcast. The cool thing is that you can outdo other classes in this one regard - casting equivalent of a level 9 banishment at level 10.







    Well this is cool. A realy nice place to settle down once you have finished being an adventurer.






    All in all this wouldn't be to my tastes. I won't deny it has a lot of useful features for the exploration pilar of the game, but like the ranger if it is good at making those problems disapear there isn't much table time given over to them. Nothing much to help with social and a near total lack of support for combat means probably feeling a bit of a wasted character in a lot of sessons. A lot of features seem to just be worse versions of spellcasting progression with a cripplingly restrictive selection of spells and a great lack of flexability. For an exploration only game its good - but the moment a character decides to start swinging a sword, I worry it will be unrewarding.

    And the bookkeeping. Can you imagine what a character sheet would look like with all the different resources to track so many times per different duration of rest...

    Its possible you could almost add the spellcasting feature to the class (with an appropriate spell list) and it would still only be slightly overpowered.

    I am not seeing the playstyle here. To whom is it supposed to appeal? What party role?

    Flavour is great. I can kind of feel the class, but it feels a bit like an NPC class to me. As someone who enjoys teleportaton anre the real arcane feel to it, I do love hat side.. So often homebrew seems too combat focussed with no out of combat support; this seems the opposite.
    Thank you so much for your feedback!

    I don't expect it to have broad appeal, but I think there were some misunderstandings in goals and applications.

    First and foremost, this is meant to be a support character. You rightly assess that the rest of the party will be working to take down foes, but seemed to kind of equate that to resolving every issue and effective management (or circumnavigation) of exploration challenges as reducing spotlight. I'm fine with that. I don't find a lot of drama in stories about mudslides or floods. Having a buddy that lets you skip that feels great to me. Being that buddy feels even better.

    This Class is intended to operate in healthy tandem with the other classes. Symbiotically if you will. Impel foe seems tragically weak, until you're continuously dropping foes prone back into the puddle of grease, web, or wall of sand, or at the barbarian's feet. And yes, some things like Repelling Blast and the Telekinetic feat will do good work in that regard, but they won't knock the target prone, put it in a tree, etc. There are spells that will a few times a day, but this is all day.

    That said, I considered adding ESP and maybe arcane eye to the spell list for that first feature, but those felt like the conjuration specialist class was launching with a heavy dip in Diviniation, so left those off. The ability to sense magic and gradually increases your clarity when doing so felt like enough.

    Flow Step
    can be used as an action at will and does not require line of sight. That's nearly at-will Dimension Door, a 4th level spell. I viciously reduced the range to compensate for the level difference and at-will aspect. Even at 20th level its range is 1/5th of the spell. The expendable uses to give it some minor combat application (akin to Misty Step) and a major utility one (carry a willing creature). There's also no restriction on using it as an Action or bonus action, so you can do both.

    This means from levels 1-4 your default attack is probably a crossbow. You can occasionally grant yourself advantage on attacks at level 1. this is pretty much About half a point of damage behind a Bow fighter's output for levels 1 and 2 (or 1-4 depending on subclass) and better than a Firebolt from 1-4.

    Defensive Teleport can be used before any attack roll, not just melee, so it's conceivable you could teleport behind Total Cover rendering the ranged attack meaningless, and at level 3 you will almost always negate a melee attack with 15 feet of distance.

    Tesseract holds a lot more than pockets will and holds it all invisibly unless magic is used.

    Impel Foe (5) and Baleful Teleport (11) have no limit on uses. While Con saves aren't the best for monster types, they're about par for most humanoids and great for caster foes of every stripe. It may seem weak in many circumstances, but can be save or die depending on terrain and save or suck if you're working with a caster that uses grease or other hazard magic. From level 5-10 There's also no reason you can't Teleport your allies into superior positions, like having the Barbarian mount a flying foe, or putting the rogue in a sniper nest.

    The level 7 swap teleport is the level 6 Conjurer wizard feature but at-will. If you haven't played with it, it's amazing. I think some of the confusion would be resolved if I broke out the expendable uses of Flow Step as separate features to track, but I did want the player to wrestle with sacrificing their utility for defensive options.

    I agree the 9th level feature is weaker than level 9 for wizards, but multiple castings would be too much.

    The level 13+ features are exactly as powerful as those gained by a Wizard of equivalent level that chooses to prepare those spells. Wizards never get more than 1 slot of 7th, 8th, and 9th level, but I delayed the progression slightly, mostly out of respect for the versatility of the core function which

    As for subclasses,
    Bogman.
    - The Pet ooze is pretty beefy.
    - Mirror Image as a bonus action twice per short or long rest is a lot of damage mitigation.
    - The teleport block is fairly niche regardless of application and the magic item inhibition is unlikely to come up in most games, but it is massive and flavorful.
    - Simulacrum is a broken spell, capping it at self and one minute brings it in line, particularly when the dupe can immediately mirror image, create a 70 hp minion that can nuke ACs and be sending targets 35 feet into the wall or ground where they might be out of the fight for multiple rounds altogether.

    Trailblazer.
    - If you can't see endless possibility with what is a severely nerfed at-will Arcane Gate, I don't know what to tell you. The other players can ready actions to dash through the portal. Out of combat it conserves uses of your Flow Step feature to transport others. In combat it can let the PCs reposition in ways NPCs are not going to be able to deal with, particularly if the party is using hazard spells like Spike Growth, Cloud of Daggers, etc. It is dependent on the party working out ways to optimize its use, but when they do, it's a lynchpin.
    - The Tunnel Bite expectation is that enemies frustrated by a party that can seemingly appear out of nowhere and then retreat back through the portal may choose to pursue and get a nasty surprise. If the duration of the portal is extended, the party can drag creatures into it.
    - Hithering. applications like sleight of hand have always varied by DM judgment, but if the caster-rogue's popularity is any indication, this should be great. The size of the portal increasing to huge allows for forced movement affecting such creatures to be enhanced significantly, granting your allies advantage on all ranged or reach attacks made at targets at the other end feels pretty good too.
    - Thithering is amazing, on that we agree.

    Evenflow.
    - Keeping a whole trading post worth of stuff in your pants is great. It's intended to be on par with the Genielock for stashing stuff.
    - This is like the Genielock but does come 4 levels earlier.
    - I had considered giving a nerfed Banish at 6, but I didn't want to deal with "improving it" back to baseline later so I moved it to 10 and allowed the overcasting.
    - I can see where you might be confused with magnificent mansion, a lot of people misunderstand its potential, but this is also skewed based on how I run DND.
    In my games, long rests away from "civilization" are not guaranteed without a lot of hurdles being cleared. For levels 1-12 the PCs are encouraged to invest in communities, expanding the boundaries of their domain with downtime activities, etc. If they walk around being a pack of buttheads, they might find their rests interrupted with harassment, thieves, or assassins. (they can go the other way, hire goons to protect them, build fortresses etc. But it all comes down to being invested in the world. But if they leave that world, planes hopping, starjamming, whatever, they lose access to that investment and then have to look for safe places. A certain stretch of forest won't be safe enough for a long rest until the giant spider that reigns over it is slain. Caves and bandits, aeries and gryphons etc. This is an assumption of risk and investment of time to find places on the road to long rest.

    Magnificent Mansion is the 1 stop ivory tower. You cast that, and there is no need for civilization, it's all the comforts of home you could need for a long rest. So it definitely has an outsized impact in my games which I felt warranted making it a big deal for this class. It should also say cast it once and regain use after a long rest. I did add that text in the PDF version.

    Thank you again so much for your feedback!

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Congratulations, Just to Browse on winning Something Borrowed with the Storm Herald!

    Ok, so... I got busy for like 2 days last week and somehow thought I had already opened the new submission thread.

    I'll have it up tonight after work. Nothing to see here!

    Here it is: Teamwork Makes the Dream Work
    Last edited by animorte; 2023-10-17 at 10:10 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread



    Edit: Well, got my submission done, but it seems like we don't have many people competing this time... maybe we should do another one of those "End of the year extensions?"

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Over a month has passed and I think everyone has forgotten about this one. We've also had a couple contests with low activity like the card game one where it was just 2 contestants.

    Maybe we may want to retire the base class contest for now, and keep on with the subclass contest?
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Over a month has passed and I think everyone has forgotten about this one. We've also had a couple contests with low activity like the card game one where it was just 2 contestants.

    Maybe we may want to retire the base class contest for now, and keep on with the subclass contest?
    Hmm, that's a fair statement. But personally, I know that I simply don't bother to force out an entry if the theme doesn't really grab me, and like many in the upper Midwest, I go into emotional and nearly literal hibernation once the hours of sunlight drop below 10 per day. So I'd say it might not be time to shelve it, but my suggestion is, if it gets any support, do a completely unthemed, open contest and reevaluate after that.
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    I also want to remind everyone that it is not mandatory to develop a minimum of 3 subclasses for each class, or even, if the theme is very specific, it is possible not to develop any subclasses at all.

    Personally I wouldn't mind also proposing the development of 3.5-style prestige classes with only 10 levels and entry prerequisites that force you to multiclass between 2 standard classes for 3 or 4 levels. Such a different approach could be a nice stimulus.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Good points. It might also be that I'm over-reacting here. A different contest topic could change how many folks submit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry MTX View Post
    Personally I wouldn't mind also proposing the development of 3.5-style prestige classes with only 10 levels and entry prerequisites that force you to multiclass between 2 standard classes for 3 or 4 levels. Such a different approach could be a nice stimulus.
    That's an interesting idea. I've been eyeing the opposite recently: classes that end at the start of a tier (e.g. level 5 or level 11), so you don't have to sketch out as much. Maybe we can do both of those at once?

    How does this sound?
    1. I'll post the usual voting thread with a new topic, etc. Run the next contest as usual, to see if this is a fluke.
    2. If the next contest also sees very little activity, we run a "half-class" contest next, where all classes are 5-15 levels long, allowing both the prestige concept and the half base class.
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    I'd say it's great, but since I'm overwhelmed by life in this period I'm absolutely not sure if I'll be able to participate, so my opinion matters little. Let's wait to hear what others say.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    After much delay, the new contest voting thread is now live!

    Took some time this weekend to update the contest theme spreadsheet with all of the base class themes. Some themes don't work across the two contests, so I've added a column to mark eligibility. I just used the spreadsheet to generate the list of new topics for this contest and it was pretty smooth.
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Well, we only had two entries for this one, and I'm one of them, so... I feel like I should just vote for which theme we should make next. Because voting for yourself (even if it's for second place) is tacky.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    that last voting thread went belly up lol - I'll try to be more aggro about bumping it

    despite not getting any votes on a class, we did get a theme, Monster Mash. We'll see if this one gets any nibbles. I've put up the submission thread.

    Currently considering one of a few options:
    • Reboot my jasarker into a class for predators everywhere
    • Make an ozodrin-style class with mutation powers
    • Build a Hollyphant monster class for a potential run of Descent into Avernus

    Ideas ideas hmmmmm
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    I keep wanting to do these, but find I run out of time and inspiration part way through - subclasses are easy, there are closer frames of reference against which to judge power. Its the fine tuning that hurts.

    Still, I can at least plan.

    I will go for the Undying Class. A class focussed on embracing undeath and the forms that come with it. Subclasses pertaining to ghost, lich, mummy and vampire.

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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    Shoot, that does remind me. We're trying a new rule that allows shorter submissions, since 5e base classes can be a lot of work.

    Short Classes: Your base class doesn't need to be a full 20 levels for you to submit it. You can write up a class that only goes up to a monster's CR like monster base classes of old, a Prestige Class like from the prestige classes from Unearthed Arcana, a class that starts at level 10 like the Mythos classes from Xefas, or anything in between. Please include a quick note at the start of your class that describes how it's different. Additional details like suggested multiclasses are also nice.

    Also, a worthy reminder - there's no minimum number of subclasses you need to write! Harry's post says it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry MTX
    I also want to remind everyone that it is not mandatory to develop a minimum of 3 subclasses for each class, or even, if the theme is very specific, it is possible not to develop any subclasses at all.
    If you've got a great idea but filling out the subclasses seems impossible, don't worry about subclasses. Put up whatever feels right for your theme.
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    Default Re: New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread

    After some initial exploration, I'm going with The Hollyphant. There's already a really detailed Ozodrin class that I'm not sure I could do justice. In contrast, there's surprisingly little in the way of playable Hollyphant PC material. I found Lulu's Guide to Hollyphants which gives advice on making Hollyphants into a race, but it's a little underwhelming.
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