[WFRP] The Bloody Crown OOC XV

[TheSummoner]

Of course.

[LeSwordfish]

oh hell yeah

[LCP]

it's kicking off, Pru!

I think everyone seems to have a decent understanding of what's going on already, but since there's some geometry to this and we're now in a combat, here's a quick sketch map to make sure it's clear:



Sieghard vs. the Iron Company also has the potential to get very long, so maybe good to talk about the possible goals of this combat:

1. Beating the Iron Company - the only way the Iron Company are in serious danger from the crowd is if they lose their formation on the three sides facing away from the mill. Although he's inside the box, Sieghard is not in a good position to communicate with those Iron Company men or the crowd beyond them - they're in formation, facing away from him, and engaged to the front. They're probably going to take a little while to even notice Corrado has been attacked.

Each line is only 2 men deep, so it's quite possible that a surprise attack by Sieghard from behind would create a gap. It would be a small, localised one though, and you'd be really counting on the crowd to understand what's going on, take the initiative and help out. Essentially you'd have one shot, and if it didn't work, Sieghard would be left isolated and surrounded.

The side facing the mill is not in formation, and is closest - those guys are going to notice Sieghard attacking Corrado right away. They are still engaged with the people who were trying to block the door, who can also clearly see and hear Sieghard and Corrado. They have been kicking those people's arses, so the numerical advantage there is not that great - many of the people who were blocking the door are already effectively casualties, even if they're not necessarily dying. You can expect that at least a few of the Iron Company there will probably prioritise Sieghard attacking Corrado over continuing to beat up these peasants, so Sieghard is not a complete free agent inside the formation - he will have to act quickly not to get tied down.

2. Escaping the Iron Company - Sieghard's kind of trapped right now, but if he gets out of the box, it would be probably very easy for him to escape further pursuit. I think what I wrote above gives you all the information you need if you want to try to escape through the Iron Company; the other route is through the mill. Sieghard doesn't know if the mill has other doors than the big ones the brawl is happening in front of, but it's perfectly possible. He can also see it has windows on the side facing him, so it may well have them on the other side too. Escaping through the brawl would be easier than escaping through the ranks.

Urgrim & Jarla - I think we can assume that Urgrim and Jarla are close enough to have got at least a glimpse of what's going on with Sieghard, and are probably paying more attention to him than the rest of the crowd (who are more focused on the line of pikes coming at them). If they want to help with any of the above, they're much better placed than he is to communicate with the crowd. If they want to get away from the front, they can do so without needing any tests (although it may require a couple of turns of pushing and shoving).

Hanna & the Thorns - I think you said before they were hanging back, so they are currently nowhere near this fight, and it would be verging on impossible to get any message to them simply by yelling. However, the mill and the Iron Company are very visible even from the edge of the camp where you started, so you can probably assume they can see that things are kicking off. Of course, they are Sforza's soldiers in uniform, so approaching through the crowd without the benefit of a hedge of pikes to protect them would be... brave.

If you've any more questions to help you get the lay of the land please let me know. If you tell me what you're going to try to achieve, then I'll look for any reasonable shortcut we can take around lots of rounds of men in heavy armour walloping each other.

That being said, you walloped Corrado pretty hard - +2 crit to the head.

(1d100)[11]

[LCP]

Seeing Double - your attack stuns your opponent for (1d10)[3] rounds.

i'm seeing double here, four sieghards

[rax]

On the plus side, pikes can only attack opponents 6 yards away, so if Sieghard gets up close and personal, the Company men are going to have to drop their pikes to fight him. Depending on who he goes for, it should certainly serve to disorder their formations if the locals still have enough fight left in them to try and mob them.

[rax]

Meh. I'll spend Bardhyl's last FP on that test and take my chances for the rest of the day.

(1d100)[55] vs. Int 44

[RossN]

LCP can Jarla draw a weapon without hitting anyone next to her or is she not quite that jam packed?

[TheSummoner]

It begins! Tra la la lumpa doo!

General thoughts... Didn't realize Sieghard was inside of the square, but I can work with it. I wasn't planning on having him bash Corrado and then just run. A few questions about his current situation, before deciding his actions. What does "the numerical advantage there is not that great" translate to mechanically? My assumption is no outnumbering bonus on either side, but I want to make sure. From where Sieghard is at the moment, just how tightly packed are things? Is he able to charge? If he remains still for a round, is he vulnerable to being charged? Of the Iron Company men who have already noticed him, how many are currently unengaged?

Stuff that is just thinking out loud, and I don't really expect GM commentary on... I imagine Corrado is either the best fighter among them or at the very least no worse than any other Iron Company soldier present. Just based on the known numbers, I'd guess Sieghard has to take out something like 4 or 5 men. There's more on the mill side, but he wouldn't necessarily have to beat them all - just prove enough of a problem for them that the farmers numbers to make the difference. On it's own, that's doable. The potential requirement that it be done quickly could be trickier.

Final bit of caution, right now it's only Sieghard who has to worry, but the only way this is salvageable for anyone involved is if every man in the Iron Company dies. If we can break them on the side facing the mill quickly enough, then we can disrupt the other lines and there's nowhere for them to go. If that fails and there are survivors inclined to report back to Sforza, there'll be a price on the head of anyone involved. Whatever you do, know what the risk is.

[LCP]

]What does "the numerical advantage there is not that great" translate to mechanically?

That 2-3 of them can afford to break off and focus on Sieghard.

From where Sieghard is at the moment, just how tightly packed are things? Is he able to charge?

The inside of the square is empty ground. Sieghard is in range to charge any of the 3 sides closest to him. The 'south' side is a touch further away.

If he remains still for a round, is he vulnerable to being charged?

Yes.

Of the Iron Company men who have already noticed him, how many are currently unengaged?

As I said above, 2 or 3 look ready to break off.


Just to make sure it's clear - the plan you're forming here is a gamble not just on your own dice but on factors outside Sieghard's control. There's no 'win condition' that he can achieve alone, short of killing all 40 soldiers single-handed. He's depending on the behaviour of the crowd; the crowd has no prior loyalty to him, can't see him very clearly, and if they could, he'd look like another man in armour. I have some ideas of what rolls I will make to model their behaviour, but those will be secret rolls.

On the plus side, as rax points out, you don't need to kill any Iron Company to make a gap - just force them to drop their pikes.

@RossN: no problem drawing a weapon. Nothing is pinning the crowd in from behind so there's space to spread out - it's just unexpected rushes forward or back that present a hazard.

[LCP]

Unrelated to what's happening IC... the server issues are continuing, and I've just seen that all our past OOC threads have been deleted without notice.

I think at this point I'm starting to feel a bit less blasé about it all, and remembering the last time the servers went down. I think we probably all agree that Tavern Keeper wasn't the best substitute - if that happened again we could try to find something better - but the biggest difficulty was communicating to everyone where to go without the board to communicate through. For that reason I've made a Discord server: https://discord.gg/a8dscfFd

This isn't intend to replace the OOC thread or anything, just to be a place where we can communicate as a group if the board is down.

[RossN]

Unrelated to what's happening IC... the server issues are continuing, and I've just seen that all our past OOC threads have been deleted without notice.

What? I just lost all my notes on Adelbert!

God damn that actually physically hurts.

I think at this point I'm starting to feel a bit less blasé about it all, and remembering the last time the servers went down. I think we probably all agree that Tavern Keeper wasn't the best substitute - if that happened again we could try to find something better - but the biggest difficulty was communicating to everyone where to go without the board to communicate through. For that reason I've made a Discord server: https://discord.gg/a8dscfFd

This isn't intend to replace the OOC thread or anything, just to be a place where we can communicate as a group if the board is down.

Thanks that is a good idea.

Edit: Okay thankfully I had actually taken to posting Adelbert's stats and background in my character sheet for Jarla. Still that's a loss.

[TheSummoner]

Would Sieghard be able to use a half action to move in such a way that would prevent a charge from the Iron Company men near the mill? If the goal is throwing the Iron Company into disarray, I don't think I can afford to let Corrado recover.

[LCP]

No, I would say he is too close for that.

[LCP]

Don't think I have the energy for an update this evening, sorry. Thragka, RossN, just so you folks know I am going to wait on you before advancing things in Manann's Keep - I don't want this to just be the Sieghard show, Urgrim and Jarla have the potential to make some very impactful decisions.

Also I'll just encourage everyone again - join the discord. You don't need the app, it'll work in a browser.

[RossN]

Obviously Jarla isn't going to shoot 40(!) pikemen with one pistol but she's hoping that none of them is going to be eager to take the chance she'll shoot them if they move into the civilians.

[Thragka]

It's been a busy work week again this week, sorry folks! But this is exciting.

Re: old threads/Discord, I noticed that a lot of my bookmarked old RPs from many years ago had disappeared, which is a shame, but I didn't realise it extended to threads as recent* as our OOCs for this game. Discord is a good shout.

*Well, relatively recent ... how long has this game been running, now?

[RossN]

Oof... Any chance the Thorns have heard Jarla's pistol and are coming running?

[Thragka]

Not to push the boundary on OOC deliberation during combat time – speed of posting on top of the split-second IC nature of such decisions – but I think Urgrim and Jarla need to decide pretty quickly what they’re going to do. We’re best placed to help Sieghard if we can get some of the crowd on our side. Jarla has good Fellowship, Urgrim has Public Speaking, maybe together we’ll get lucky? not like that

If we can’t, or don’t want to try to, sway the crowd to continue or ramp up their resistance, we probably need to actively go get the Thorns contingent, and convince them they need to help get Sieghard out of the situation he’s in one way or another, or we’ll all be in der Scheiße. I figure that wouldn’t be particularly difficult compared to rousing the crowd, especially since Urgrim knows some Thorns. I’ve tried to look back through the past few pages of the thread to find out exactly how many of them are there with Hanna but I’ve not succeeded – can anyone point me to the relevant info?

[RossN]

Not to push the boundary on OOC deliberation during combat time – speed of posting on top of the split-second IC nature of such decisions – but I think Urgrim and Jarla need to decide pretty quickly what they’re going to do. We’re best placed to help Sieghard if we can get some of the crowd on our side. Jarla has good Fellowship, Urgrim has Public Speaking, maybe together we’ll get lucky? not like that

If we can’t, or don’t want to try to, sway the crowd to continue or ramp up their resistance, we probably need to actively go get the Thorns contingent, and convince them they need to help get Sieghard out of the situation he’s in one way or another, or we’ll all be in der Scheiße. I figure that wouldn’t be particularly difficult compared to rousing the crowd, especially since Urgrim knows some Thorns. I’ve tried to look back through the past few pages of the thread to find out exactly how many of them are there with Hanna but I’ve not succeeded – can anyone point me to the relevant info?

Getting the civilians involved while the Iron Company lines are intact is just going to result in a lot of dead civilians. We'll need the Thorns and their crossbows.

[TheSummoner]

Well they're not here. And realistically they aren't close enough for you to fetch them and come back before this is over either. And frankly, even if you could, there's not enough of them to make much difference on their own - there's only 15 of them here. Maybe that's shortsightedness on my part, but I didn't want them involved in a slaughter and didn't think Corrado would do something like order the pikemen to attack the crowd.

If it helps, here's some perspective. Eight pikemen. That's, at most, what you've got in front of you. 30 to 40 of them total, divided into four sides of their square. Ranks two men deep, four wide at most. That's not exactly a strong formation and if they keep pushing out, they'll either have to thin their line or open gaps at the corners. - kill a couple of them and you've breached their line and their pikes are useless. Too long for fighting in close quarters. They've still got their swords, but now the crowd can get close enough to swing back at them.

[RossN]

Well they're not here. And realistically they aren't close enough for you to fetch them and come back before this is over either. And frankly, even if you could, there's not enough of them to make much difference on their own - there's only 15 of them here. Maybe that's shortsightedness on my part, but I didn't want them involved in a slaughter and didn't think Corrado would do something like order the pikemen to attack the crowd.

If it helps, here's some perspective. Eight pikemen. That's, at most, what you've got in front of you. 30 to 40 of them total, divided into four sides of their square. Ranks two men deep, four wide at most. That's not exactly a strong formation and if they keep pushing out, they'll either have to thin their line or open gaps at the corners. - kill a couple of them and you've breached their line and their pikes are useless. Too long for fighting in close quarters. They've still got their swords, but now the crowd can get close enough to swing back at them.

Easy for you to say. Jarla is far from the killing machine Sieghard is.

Still guess there isn't much choice now!

[TheSummoner]

Fair, but realistically we don't have to kill them all. We have to be enough of a problem to create a hole in the line and we have to have the crowd hold long enough for us to do that. If we can accomplish that, numbers win out.

[Thragka]

Ah, right, I misread LCP’s post the first time, now I realise the Thorns are “nowhere near” us. Well, that scuppers that idea.

[Thragka]

Err, I should have said Defensive Stance instead of Parrying Stance for my conditional actions, since Urgi's already holding a shield. But if I edit my post I'll mess up my rolls, so I am double-posting here instead.

[LCP]

Sorry, I realise now I completely forgot to answer your OOC question RossN. The Thorns will almost certainly have heard the pistol (blackpowder weapons are LOUD) but you can't see them to know their reaction.

Also, the site is running like treacle - TheSummoner, RossN, Sentinel, please join the discord. Even if GITP doesn't go completely down, it might get to the level of being effectively unusable (for me certainly not being able to just post when I have free time is a massive pain). Plus, you can use it to ping me if I forget questions. And we're posting pictures of miniatures!

[LCP]

Dodge roll for Sieghard's target: (1d100)[7]

[LCP]

Sieghard has done 8 wounds to his first target. They swing back with Swift Attacks:

(1d100)[94], (1d10+4)[10]
(1d100)[93], (1d10+4)[6]

(1d100)[51], (1d10+4)[9]
(1d100)[65], (1d10+4)[8]

Sieghard_Parry - (1d100)[27]
Sieghard_Dodge - (1d100)[25]

Jarla's pistol shot is soaked. The pike line takes a half move into stabbing distance and starts stabbing. I'll take Urgrim's 2nd set of actions here, because while he's being attacked, the wielders of those pikes are still 6 yards away.

Both Jarla and Urgrim have drawn some attention (by shooting guns and/or looking different) so they draw two pike thrusts each.

vs. Jarla:
(1d100)[42], (1d10+4)[6]
(1d100)[96], (1d10+4)[5]
Dodge - (1d100)[28]

vs. Urgrim:
(1d100)[66], (1d10+4)[9]
(1d100)[76], (1d10+4)[13]
Parry - (1d100)[73]
Dodge - (1d100)[51]


A very ineffectual turn from the pride of Tobaro - only 1 hit (on Jarla) which is dodged.

[LCP]

And I should roll opposed WS vs Urgrim's Manoeuvre: (1d100)[40] - they hold him back.

[RossN]

I know it wasn't a good roll for Jarla but I'm mildly alarmed that pikeman can shrug off a 9 without a scratch.

[LCP]

They're the Iron Company not the Leather Company! They wear a lot of armour.