[WFRP] The Bloody Crown OOC XV

[LeSwordfish]

I was actually wondering if Sanne could be useful for a kill-the-queen plan. If we break her out and get her away she might be a useful scapegoat.

EDIT: Do we need Sieghard in Savonne so soon? Ludo can send Gina off and Sieghard can ride up with the Sforzas.

[-Sentinel-]

Another thought. Sanne isn't in very good condition down in the dungeons. Sentinel, if you dont want her to die down there, might need to arrange a jail break. It seems like it's just the one gaoler down there. Man has to sleep sooner or later.

You're suggesting to risk everything Elsa has gained over 2+ years, with little benefit. Getting Sanne out of her cell is one thing; getting her out of the castle is another. In the state she's in, I don't know how many steps she can walk before she collapses.

Even if Mauro doesn't witness the jailbreak, other prisoners will, and may try to foil the attempt in hopes it'll shorten their sentences.

[RossN]

Unless Jacques has absolutely shocking information I'm fine with moving on and have Jarla keep him out of everyone's hair escort him back to Savonne. If the royals are returning soon Jarla probably does need to go back to court anyway.

[LeSwordfish]

Having a bit of a family emergency so no list of murder questions from me today. Might get them in in time to reasonably timesplit but don't wait for me.

[LCP]

Hope it's nothing too serious. Have done a big post moving us on but very willing to timesplit Ludo's questions for Gina whenever.

[-Sentinel-]

I think we should give Gina a fake name to travel under. Something Estalian or Bretonnian, as a Tilean name would raise suspicions that she's connected to the Sforzas.

Also, can she speak Reikspiel? I don't remember if this has been mentioned.

[RossN]

Is Jarla writing Gina's letter or Ludo? Jarla's happy to do it but I'm not clear on whether she is just finding a seal ring or actually composing it herself.

Also hope it isn't too serious LeSwordfish!

[-Sentinel-]

I reported the intruder. Hopefully a mod deletes their post.

They've been doing the same thing in a bunch of other threads. Really weird. Almost certainly a bot given their/its posting rate, but for what purpose?

[TheSummoner]

Test run of some sort of spambot? Seems like it's copying existing posts to try to pass as human, but context makes it obvious that it isn't.

[LCP]

I think it's a fairly common strategy for bots on boards where you can't post links before you reach a certain post count.

[LeSwordfish]

Finding it quite hard to think of murder plans. Or, more specifically, ways in which I can make this tie into long-term goals OOC or IC: it's not entirely Ludo's vibe to do a murder without a point. I would imagine that "sneak into the bedroom when Sforza is out, stab her, run away" is reasonably possible with Ludo's sneaking statline.

I kind of wish i'd not had him announce his intention IC - without a plan, he's going to look like a bit of a wally just quietly dropping the idea. Going back further, I think I would have been less "do your worst" about it if I'd known how much of a loose end I was at without the "tainted drugs" idea. Which yes, does feel a bit grubby OOC typing it out.

Perhaps it's better to find a way of slipping to Sforza that she's been taking contraceptives? That might get revenge for Adelbert, and achieve the goal of removing her as a power base (and thus her ability to threaten Ludo's family) without needing to kill her? But, like, maybe it won't. And also, does that achieve anything long-term in terms of our nominal goals of taking over? Could we imply that Nahorek/Mala was responsible?

Alternatively, Irene has always taken her own safety extremely seriously. If we were to make a credible threat to her own safety, perhaps that could affect her behaviour.

If Sforza divorces Irene (is he allowed to?) I wonder if we could find a candidate to take her place, Alicent Hightower style. I think perhaps Ludo should take the documents to Filomena and speak to her about this whole thing - she hates Irene right? And might be willing to get in on a strategy to get her out of the way.

So these are going to be Ludo's questions: sorry if they're a bit vague and more spurs for conversation rather than specific asks.

• The Lady Irene and Filomena never seemed to get on. Why was that? Does she have any other particular enemies in Savonne?
• What was your process for buying this drug for her? Who did you purchase it from? Did they know you were buying it for the principessa?
• Does the Lady give advice to Sforza? Does he listen to her? Who else gives him advice - who often disagrees with her?
• How long has Sforza been expecting a child? How long has Irene been protecting against that?
• How does Irene spend her time when Sforza is away?
• AND only if Gina has been getting on well with things so far - how is Irene protected? What kind of personal guard does she have?

Here is an initial Charm test for this (1d100)[67] vs 92. If Gina catches on to the idea of Ludo trying to depose or kill Irene, he'll say something like "she threatened my family", and only continue if that seems to make her much more comfortable.

I'm not sure how much money to give Gina. How much was she earning as a lady's maid? I assume she's got nothing more than the clothes she's wearing.

And a pure mechanical question: If I do go with plan sneak-and-stab, can we bring the At Your Mercy rules back for that? Sneaking ludo can do, but stabbing not so much.

[LCP]

Lots of good questions there. I won't weigh in too much because this is largely about in-character decision making, both individually for Ludo and for the group as a whole. You guys have already had round 1 of this discussion - I suspect it's something that will come up again.

Perhaps it's better to find a way of slipping to Sforza that she's been taking contraceptives? That might get revenge for Adelbert, and achieve the goal of removing her as a power base (and thus her ability to threaten Ludo's family) without needing to kill her?

One thing I will say here is that while something like this is absolutely possible, you should expect it'll take a sustained effort. Fighting for political favour or disfavour is fighting her on her home turf; she has the most access to Sforza of anyone in the Reaches, and the skills and inclination to use it. You guys know from personal experience how quickly she's bounced back from crossing lines that angered or embarrassed him in the past.

That's not that I'm at all saying it's a bad idea - you have a hypnohobbit and lots of political ammunition. Just trying to make sure the scale of the task is clear.

And also, does that achieve anything long-term in terms of our nominal goals of taking over?

I think this is a very relevant question in terms of who in the party actually has this goal (and why).

If Sforza divorces Irene (is he allowed to?)

Spoiler

Show

There's no Pope-equivalent to tell him off if he wanted to do that - his biggest problem would probably be with Irene's family back in Tilea.

I'm not sure how much money to give Gina. How much was she earning as a lady's maid? I assume she's got nothing more than the clothes she's wearing.

She was on 2gc12s a month. She has about 10s on her.

And a pure mechanical question: If I do go with plan sneak-and-stab, can we bring the At Your Mercy rules back for that? Sneaking ludo can do, but stabbing not so much.

I don't remember exactly how we ran them, but yes, I won't force you to use the core combat rules for assassinating a sleeping human.

[-Sentinel-]

Perhaps it's better to find a way of slipping to Sforza that she's been taking contraceptives? That might get revenge for Adelbert, and achieve the goal of removing her as a power base (and thus her ability to threaten Ludo's family) without needing to kill her? But, like, maybe it won't. And also, does that achieve anything long-term in terms of our nominal goals of taking over? Could we imply that Nahorek/Mala was responsible?

Irene once got morning sickness. Sforza sent her to Bianco, but Elsa mentioned to him that this was a good sign if he wanted an heir, and he perked up in interest. I think Elsa could bring it up again—in light of Bianco's more recent treachery, Sforza will likely reevaluate the whole incident.

The Lady Irene and Filomena never seemed to get on. Why was that? Does she have any other particular enemies in Savonne?

My own suspicion is that Filomena was once Sforza's lover during his campaigns in Arabya. If true, it's probably an open secret among the Iron Company.

And also, does that achieve anything long-term in terms of our nominal goals of taking over?

I think this is a very relevant question in terms of who in the party actually has this goal (and why).

Yyyyep. I know a Border Princes campaign is supposed to be about political maneuvering, but Elsa is actually quite comfortable with her current position. She has just the right level of protection, independence and responsibility. Outright taking over would give her more visibility, and perhaps force the Colleges to send a Master Vigilant after her—a runaway apprentice is likely beneath their notice, but a battle-hardened renegade wizard who's one of the rulers of a small polity is a problem. Not to mention that, when the common people are starving, it's perhaps wise not to be the ones being held responsible.

Plus, a regicide is not the same thing as a coup. With our current level of military support, killing Sforza and his wife would only earn us rope neckties, not the throne. The only winner would be Carraciolo.

There's no Pope-equivalent to tell him off if he wanted to do that - his biggest problem would probably be with Irene's family back in Tilea.

I'm not sure to what extent he still even needs them, though. Have we ever known of them sending him any money or other support during the time frame of the game?

[TheSummoner]

And also, does that achieve anything long-term in terms of our nominal goals of taking over?

I think this is a very relevant question in terms of who in the party actually has this goal (and why).

Sieghard is very much on board with killing Irene (because of the ambush) and he has no love for Sforza, though that doesn't rise to the level of "let's murder him in his sleep." I can easily see how one thing could lead to another though, where the results of killing Irene create a need to remove Sforza which in turn creates a situation where we feel the need to take control to enforce some level of stability.

Plus, a regicide is not the same thing as a coup. With our current level of military support, killing Sforza and his wife would only earn us rope neckties, not the throne. The only winner would be Carraciolo.

Only if they find out it was us. You also seem to be assuming that Sforza dying means Carraciolo becomes undisputed ruler of everything Sforza ruled. There's no guarantee it'd work like that. For a historical example, when Alexander the Great died, his generals carved up the land he had conquered and split it among themselves.

[-Sentinel-]

Only if they find out it was us. You also seem to be assuming that Sforza dying means Carraciolo becomes undisputed ruler of everything Sforza ruled. There's no guarantee it'd work like that. For a historical example, when Alexander the Great died, his generals carved up the land he had conquered and split it among themselves.

Carraciolo would be at the gates of Savonne before Valdes even learned of Sforza's death. And once he holds Savonne, he holds the Reaches, because the only other seasoned soldiers who excel in a pitched battle are the handful of Magrittan swordsmen who survived Arrow Heap.

[TheSummoner]

Much like how Belehir held the reaches when he held Savonne, right?

If Carraciolo takes Savonne, he has Savonne. He only has the south if either Valdes and Sieghard bend the knee to him or he takes it by force. And there's no guarantee he'd even try.

[LeSwordfish]

I guess just as a headcount, is The PC's Republic of Sieghardia what we're looking for, long term? It feels like something that's nominally been part of the plan since the beginning, but we've never made particular moves on since getting mixed up in all this vampire business.

Personally, I kind of like the idea, and think some politicking would make a pleasant change from the vampire business (which is fun, don't get me wrong, but I'm willing to try other play styles). However, I think the way I've played Ludo thus far means that he needs to find an unusual turn of ambition, or some external reason, to properly try and climb the ladder. However, Ludo totally has an "in" in that Sforza basically offered him a job after the trial, so I should go and take that job - if nothing else, it lets me get Sforza's ear more closely.

Does Sieghard want to talk to Sforza about the incident with Tshula? If not, Ludo can meet with him after he gets back to Savonne.

Excellent choice with the lizards, hola skinks.

The lizards performed creditably: they're such a powerhouse army at the moment that even my generalship cannot bring them down. Ton'ki Ho'ti, my lancer Scar-vet, lanced a bunch of trolls.

[LeSwordfish]

Much like how Belehir held the reaches when he held Savonne, right?

If Carraciolo takes Savonne, he has Savonne. He only has the south if either Valdes and Sieghard bend the knee to him or he takes it by force. And there's no guarantee he'd even try.

Honestly, I think part of the problem is that all Sforza's court are buddies to some degree or another. I can't imagine any serious rebellion against Carraciolo from Valdes, Al'Makir, etc. In fact, maybe that's an action we could take: damage Carraciolo's reputation so that, should something happen to Sforza, the others won't fall in line behind him.

[rax]

That's why, if you're planning a coup, you also make plans to frustrate whoever might be the biggest threat to you successfully holding onto power once the main target is removed. Not to mention that you obviously need some military force of your own, which could include subverting anyone not in the Iron Company.

But above all, Sieghard makes an important point about succession. Carraciolo has zero legitimacy as the next in line to rule the Reaches, all he has is (probably) the support of the Iron Company. He may be able to take and hold Savonne with that, but that leaves everyone else to do their own thing, including raising and training troops to fight him if he marches out to reconquer the other areas. If he splits his forces to hold all parts of the Reaches, he leaves himself vulnerable to being defeated piecemeal.

Coming late into the game, I think the chances of a successful coup are far greater than it might seem at first glance, but it's likely true that it's not something the party could pull off with just your own resources.

Edit: Man, you people write posts quickly!

If you were to advance a candidate for the throne from the party, my suggestion would be either Sieghard - he's recognizable, a famous warrior, and already holds a leadership position - or Ludo. He's a skilled diplomat and will seem non-threatening to most other candidates, but as long as he's got Sieghard and Elsa behind him, he also has the muscle to keep other ambitious folk in line (once the coup is done).

[-Sentinel-]

Much like how Belehir held the reaches when he held Savonne, right?

The situation is completely different. Belehir was brought to power by the will of the people of Savonne and had no allies outside the walls of the city, unless you count Sforza's enemy-of-my-enemy deal. The Dwimmulsons packed up and left, leaving him without access to the city's ancestral source of wealth. He was opposed by a coalition of powerful armies, most of which (the knights of Manann, the Norscans, Groz' mercenary company and the Storm Swords) have since been almost entirely wiped out. Alvarr's surviving archers, levies and war machines are now Carraciolo's, and the dwarfs and the guilders will likely align behind him for the sake of continuity and stability.

Any army that can pose a threat to the Iron Company would need to be hired outside the Reaches. And if Carraciolo holds Savonne and has the loyalty of Putbad and the dwarfs, he can easily outspend us. He will also control all road and river access to and from the Reaches.

I suppose the people of Savonne could rise up in revolt. It'll likely be short-lived and come to a bloody end about as soon as someone with an actual army marches in, much like the Paris Commune of 1871. And there's no reason why revolutionaries would put us in charge. They likely don't see much difference between any of Sforza's lieutenants.

Honestly, I think part of the problem is that all Sforza's court are buddies to some degree or another. I can't imagine any serious rebellion against Carraciolo from Valdes, Al'Makir, etc.

Exactly. I don't know if Valdes even has any ambition to rule the Reaches. He likely considers his rule of the South to be a pretty good deal, considering how depleted his company is. Why would he wager everything he has on a bad hand?

Also, consider it from the soldiers' perspective. Most of Sforza's old-timers have been campaigning since Arabya, and are now enjoying a sort of semi-retirement. They probably aren't too keen on embarking on a fratricidal campaign over a land that they already consider conquered. The leader who offers them continuity and the status quo will get more support from them than the one who wants to shake things up.

In fact, maybe that's an action we could take: damage Carraciolo's reputation so that, should something happen to Sforza, the others won't fall in line behind him.

We could do that, but it's dangerous to undermine your ruler when the nation is already in crisis, unless you have a rock-solid plan to replace him. Are we sure we're the ones in the best position to take advantage of a power vacuum? Or will we just make the Reaches ripe for the taking by outside enemies?

[TheSummoner]

It's all speculative at the moment since I don't think anyone is suggesting an immediate move against Sforza, but the Iron Company isn't as invincible as you're making them out to be. They've got numbers and they're probably the most elite close combat unit in the Reaches, but they're also pikemen and thus fairly specialized. Force them into tight confines (for example, the Karst) and their long weapons become a detriment rather than an advantage and their numbers count for nothing. Use guerilla tactics and avoid a direct engagement and there's little to nothing they can do to counter that. That sort of thing.

As for the dwarves, I doubt they'd get involved in something like that ("Not our problem, manling!") and if they did, it's easy enough to remind them of the rumors about Sforza allying himself with orcs.

Excellent choice with the lizards, hola skinks.

The lizards performed creditably: they're such a powerhouse army at the moment that even my generalship cannot bring them down. Ton'ki Ho'ti, my lancer Scar-vet, lanced a bunch of trolls.

I've been considering giving lizards a try. Recently bought a 3d printer and this (I haven't given GW a dime since the End Times and I don't plan on changing that). Might be a while before I can get everything ready, but I'm planning on doing a few small (maybe 1000 point) armies for game demos at events. Any tips for what works well?

Speaking of events, I'll be leaving for one tomorrow evening. Posting may be limited.

[-Sentinel-]

It's all speculative at the moment since I don't think anyone is suggesting an immediate move against Sforza, but the Iron Company isn't as invincible as you're making them out to be.

Not invincible... just comparatively powerful enough that most of the other remaining armed forces in the Reaches would rather fight by their side than against them. To form a coalition capable of defeating them, you'd need a very strong leader (which Sieghard isn't), an inspiring cause (which we don't have), and tempting promises (which we can't make).

We also have to wonder if, morally speaking, our characters are prepared to plunge the battered, starving Reaches into a new war over our desire to avenge Adelbert.

They've got numbers and they're probably the most elite close combat unit in the Reaches, but they're also pikemen and thus fairly specialized. Force them into tight confines (for example, the Karst) and their long weapons become a detriment rather than an advantage and their numbers count for nothing. Use guerilla tactics and avoid a direct engagement and there's little to nothing they can do to counter that. That sort of thing.

How do you plan to force them to fight you on your terms? If they hold the mighty walls of Savonne, they'd be fools to abandon them. I suppose we could ravage the countryside until they can no longer afford to ignore us, but... that wouldn't exactly endear us to the people we hope to rule.

As for the dwarves, I doubt they'd get involved in something like that ("Not our problem, manling!") and if they did, it's easy enough to remind them of the rumors about Sforza allying himself with orcs.

Why would they side with us? If we knowingly served under a man who allied himself with Orcs, then we're as bad as Carraciolo in their book (of grudges).

[LeSwordfish]

I mean i feel like if we were doing it right there wouldn't be a war - that would be the point of the setup, to make Sieghard (or whoever) the natural consensus candidate, or at least somebody worth falling in line behind.

Carrociolo has the sort of assumed legitimacy of being Sforza's heir (even if unspoken), but I feel like there's no natural follow-up to him... who is below him as the pike commander? And that person has even less legitimacy.

Of Sforza's lieutenants, I find it hard to picture Valdes leading a civil war, and he doesn't have the manpower of himself - though I can imagine Sforza's mercenaries falling in behind him. Sussman and Barbaro will just pick whoever they think would win, and I suspect Al'makir could make things very difficult but perhaps wouldn't- presented with a Fait Accompli, I feel like he would keep on with business instead of trying to overturn the boat.

This would make them all difficult to sway against a leader - i can't imagine having any luck whatsoever trying to get them on our sides against Sforza - but equally I think would make getting them on our side if we had already won easier.

[LCP]

Responding to questions + clarifications of fact in the game world:

I'm not sure to what extent [Sforza] still even needs [Irene's family] though. Have we ever known of them sending him any money or other support during the time frame of the game?

It can be a good idea not to provoke powerful people even if you don't depend on them for support. You've met 2 Tilean nobles; you can probably imagine how they'd behave if something similar happened to a daughter of theirs.

Vendetta is a fun word to say.

Belehir was brought to power by the will of the people of Savonne.

Maybe not super relevant to the discussion, but I would say anyone who said this IC would not be giving an impartial account.

Any army that can pose a threat to the Iron Company would need to be hired outside the Reaches.

Maybe more relevant: most of the men who made up Alvarr and Rorik's armies are still around. Very few fighting forces suffered anything close to 100% losses in the war; the Iron Company are formidable but there are definitely enough fighting men/women and weapons in the Reaches to challenge them.

If by an army for hire you mean a pre-organised force, then yes, they're not that - but a pre-organised force is going to come with a pre-organised leader. I'm guessing what you guys are discussing here isn't just how to send an invitation to Sforza v2.

Carrociolo has the sort of assumed legitimacy of being Sforza's heir (even if unspoken)

Similar to the statement about Belehir, I'd say someone who said this IC was picking a side. Carraciolo is second-in-command of the Iron Company and Lord-Lieutenant of the North, but Sforza has made no explicit moves to place him above Valdes in any kind of hierarchy, or to tie him to the succession. He hasn't got noble blood. The practical reality than in the event of a contested succession he'd have the most men is pretty much the only claim he'd have.

Put another way - for Carraciolo to get any real legitimacy beyond might makes right, Sforza would have to acknowledge the possibility that he and Irene could die childless.

---

Responding to the general discussion: I think you guys know where you each stand on this (barring Bardhyl of course). There's no immediate IC decision to be made, just Ludo gathering information - so I think the thing I would think about is not just where your character would stand, but what they would do with their knowledge of what the others are thinking. Intra-party tension can make for some fun moments, but mainly when resolved through actions rather than reiterated in words. Maybe you have other ways to solve each other's problems, or ideas to alleviate each others' fears - if you do, it would be better to think about those now, when your fellow PCs have raised the issue, than later when those problems have already happened.

I've redrafted this bit a silly number of times, because I don't want to push you guys in any particular direction or show favour to any particular IC argument, so I won't say any more. I'm not encouraging you to split the party - I think we probably had enough of that with Adelbert the spy - just encouraging you to think about how you can address what all the PCs want, rather than just individuals.

[-Sentinel-]

I'd be willing to contribute to Sandu's fee if needed, but honestly, I think the 12 gc should come out of our recent windfall from the sale of the warehouse. As for how much we give Gina, I think about 5-6 gc would be reasonable. We should also give her a dagger if she doesn't already have one.

I have no further plans in Savonne. As soon as Sieghard joins us (if he intends to), I'm ready to follow Bardhyl in search of Wadim.

[TheSummoner]

Sieghard is fine with paying those expenses. Let's make it a nice even 20. 12 for Sandu, 8 for her. Someone else will have to front the money though - Filomena hasn't actually paid yet.

[LeSwordfish]

Ludo can cover it, and can also handle taking the deeds back to Filomena. I'd suggest we give Gina 5 crowns of that and the rest to Olga for safekeeping.

I would suggest the warehouse money gets split up the same way as we divided up Dragos' original wealth - i.e. between the people that were in at the kill, including the Thorns. I make that 106 crowns to each of Ludo, Elsa, Sieghard, Jarla (representing Adelbert), Urgi, and the Thorns (i.e. Sieghard's slush fund.) If anyone wants to make a case for why Bardhyl should claim some of that, feel free to, I'm very happy to split it "between PCs" OOC. Is Bardhyl paying his associates? Could we cover their time looking after Gina?

(I'm assuming Urgi is still around in Painford, just out of frame, laughing too. If he's gone incommunicado we can split it five ways instead.)

Similar to the statement about Belehir, I'd say someone who said this IC was picking a side. Carraciolo is second-in-command of the Iron Company and Lord-Lieutenant of the North, but Sforza has made no explicit moves to place him above Valdes in any kind of hierarchy, or to tie him to the succession. He hasn't got noble blood. The practical reality than in the event of a contested succession he'd have the most men is pretty much the only claim he'd have.

Put another way - for Carraciolo to get any real legitimacy beyond might makes right, Sforza would have to acknowledge the possibility that he and Irene could die childless.

Fair enough. I was thinking that the old military hierarchy of "he was the old boss's second" would probably give him the semblance of legitimacy that none of the others are willing to take on that might? Whereas if Joe Lunchpail, Carrociolo's second, tries that, Valdez and Al'Makir (and Sussman and Sieghard) would all be more likely to go "hang on, why not me?". Even if the amount of actual might is the same in each case? Or am I being a bit naive here? I am not a historian or politician.

(It also occurs to me that if there was any north-to-south war in the future, Sieghard and his army and his fortified town sit on pretty much the only safe route between them. And that worked out fine for Walder Frey didn't it? I'm only up to season 5.)

Anyway, in terms of actual character goals, Ludo's is actually quite simple: stop Irene from hurting his family. OOC, I also quite like the challenge of this politicking, so am going to make some more cautious steps towards it IC.

[rax]

Fair enough. I was thinking that the old military hierarchy of "he was the old boss's second" would probably give him the semblance of legitimacy that none of the others are willing to take on that might? Whereas if Joe Lunchpail, Carrociolo's second, tries that, Valdez and Al'Makir (and Sussman and Sieghard) would all be more likely to go "hang on, why not me?". Even if the amount of actual might is the same in each case? Or am I being a bit naive here? I am not a historian or politician.

I don't think there's a general case to refer to here. If Sforza is deposed (and killed) then it might very well unite his old officers behind Carrociolo, but it might also be a signal for each of them to consider whether they want to strike out on their own. The latter scenario could be made more likely by working that angle before unleashing the coup.

Take Valdes, for instance. He's been made lord of Last Water, right? So for all his loyal service, and the sacrifice of plenty of his men at Arrow Heap, he gets to run a shrinking oasis at the arse end of the Reaches. Not the greatest of prizes, perhaps. Or maybe he can be convinced to start thinking in those terms.

And how about the Iron Company in general? They're professional soldiers with no war left to fight. What's their future in the Reaches going to be like? How many are starting to think about retiring? How's their discipline now that all they've got to do all day is various forms of guard duty?

A coup won't come off by itself, nor will it succeed without considerable groundwork and a clear goal in mind. If the party is willing to put in the work, I'm sure there's cracks to be found in Sforza's regime and plenty of people with an axe to grind who'd be willing to support a coup if their price is met.

Is Bardhyl paying his associates? Could we cover their time looking after Gina?

Bardhyl's people work for Bardhyl, so no need to worry about paying them. They have their own sources of income.

[LCP]

(I'm assuming Urgi is still around in Painford, just out of frame, laughing too. If he's gone incommunicado we can split it five ways instead.)

The Dwimmulsons have sent him off on an errand of their own - you won't find him in Painford.

Fair enough. I was thinking that the old military hierarchy of "he was the old boss's second" would probably give him the semblance of legitimacy that none of the others are willing to take on that might? Whereas if Joe Lunchpail, Carrociolo's second, tries that, Valdez and Al'Makir (and Sussman and Sieghard) would all be more likely to go "hang on, why not me?". Even if the amount of actual might is the same in each case?

Sounds plausible enough to me. The only clarification I wanted to add with my previous post is that the 'semblance of legitimacy' at the first step is fairly thin - people might start asking those questions at the earlier stage too. Not that any prediction of who would behave how would be rock-solid - these are all individuals who'd react individually to the exact circumstances.

Sorry for the slow replies over the weekend all - I downloaded Dwarf Fortress and fell down a semi-literal hole.

[LeSwordfish]

The Dwimmulsons have sent him off on an errand of their own - you won't find him in Painford.

Sure. I think strictly speaking the IC thing to do would be to put the money aside for when he turns up again but I shan't rob Elsa and Jarla of their hard-earned war profiteering/brothel profits - lets divide it by 5 along the same lines again, for 127GC each.