Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

[Vinyadan]

New page (suprisingly early)

[Willie the Duck]

Well, we knew we weren't going to get an immediate MM/Forgath reunion.

[Kish]

Since when does Kin randomly sprinkle "Gee" into her sentences to be misheard? Super contrived, Elli.

[Daywalker1983]

New Page, kinda.

Glad, Danielle can put this Phase of her life behind her now.

[Vinyadan]

I had not noticed the blog post. It's kind of a gut punch, given all the efforts to get together and have a child described in the older blog entries.

I gave the twitter feed a look, and I noticed this:

I have the worst stress migraine. I dunno where I'm going to be living in 2 months. I dunno why it's so hard for me to draw faster than I do. If I want to be able to afford to move, I need to draw MUCH faster than I do.

And another one, with a partly inked version of the current page:

Can I finish this page before the end of the month? I bloody well better!

So there's very likely a separation and certainly a relocation coming, and money problems. The page probably went up uncoloured to get the Patreon money for the month. In the past, I had already had the impression that letting Cheyenne go was due to lack of money; now I guess it's even worse.

[ElliotO]

Just finished rereading the comic.

I have what would probably be "the usual complaints" about the weird af dungeons and stuff like the dissolver monster and the kliks. When it works, it works. But all too often it doesn't. (One slightly less-common complaint I have is that it spends too much time explaining things that can be inferred by the reader --- I'm looking at you IMEs. The comic sometimes gets wordier than it has to be.)

------

Kinda wish we had more time with the character relationships and less time with some of this over-the-top homebrew.

Also, really? Bringing back forgath? Like, you had an emotional character death there. You just have to invalidate that and drive him deeper into the whole klik stuff? Paired with big ears getting his ears back immediately this makes me worry about stakes going forward.

[Kish]

Also, really? Bringing back forgath? Like, you had an emotional character death there. You just have to invalidate that and drive him deeper into the whole klik stuff? Paired with big ears getting his ears back immediately this makes me worry about stakes going forward.

I mean, it was established before Idle killed him that they had a plan to bring him back.

Chief is still dead (and being tortured in slow time), and all the ongoing characters keep losing pieces of themselves, so I think Elli is more than sufficiently brutal with her characters. (Not that I'd mourn overmuch for Forgath if he died; I don't loathe him as I do Minmax, but he's never really done anything to earn my investment either.)

On an unrelated note, since when does Big-Ears call Complains-Of-Names Names rather than Complains? Only Minmax called him that before.

[Pax1138]

I mean, the more meaningful death for Forgath was fighting Kore and falling in the whole, not the klik stuff. As it is, that added in a whole new segment to the story that feels too late an addition. Of course, even without this pace, the comic could go on for another twenty years for all we know, so what even is a "late addition"?

As for spending too much time on worldbuilding and explaining stuff, this seems to be a common issue with webcomic authors, heck probably all amateur writers and/or people without an editor.

[Morgaln]

We can't really judge what was a "late addition," since we have no idea where the story is even going. No one in the comic has an actual goal or plan what they want to do. Well, apart from Big Ears, who wants to get rid of the axe in a way that saves the world. Of course the axe breaking has happened so long ago and has been ignored by pretty much everyone to the point where it just doesn't feel important at all, let alone urgent. Of course that's not all that surprising; the goblins have long ago handed the reins of main character over to Minmax, and he doesn't care about the axe.

[Vinyadan]

We can't really judge what was a "late addition," since we have no idea where the story is even going. No one in the comic has an actual goal or plan what they want to do. Well, apart from Big Ears, who wants to get rid of the axe in a way that saves the world. Of course the axe breaking has happened so long ago and has been ignored by pretty much everyone to the point where it just doesn't feel important at all, let alone urgent. Of course that's not all that surprising; the goblins have long ago handed the reins of main character over to Minmax, and he doesn't care about the axe.

There are so many things going on with the axe that don't make much sense from a writing perspective...

Number one is Ears interacting with it. It's like his mental acuity ebbs and flows at random times. The most recent attempt to get Complains to grab it is super weird, since it would make the world go to hell faster.

If we concern ourselves more with writing than with the characters, Ear's decision to go down to hell was oddly placed. Goblins is choke full of posturing, and Ears does have some big ham moments; but the problem is that the whole thing is done at a moment when there is no way for Ears to actually go down there. And yet he speaks with absolute certainty, as if the readers wouldn't be more perplexed than impressed by the whole situation.

Another weird writing decision is the reason why the axe broke. Ears understands that it happened because he was fighting Fumbles, who is good. Fumbles has a weapon that destroys magical bindings, but Ears doesn't know it yet, so he creates an articulate explanation for why hurting Kore was evil. However, when the nature of the staff is revealed, no one seems to make the connection. And it worries me that Ears may have been right, in spite of the fact that his explanation boils down to "we should not have helped Chief and, once we did, I should have left myself and my friends die, and abandoned the axe to Kore", because the writing simply doesn't care about Fumbles's staff, as far as the axe is concerned (either that, or Ears' epiphany is being postponed beyond any reasonableness).

Then we have the placement of the axe breaking within the overall story: the Goblins are simply running away and trying to reach their village. Strictly speaking, they don't need to fight Kore, and they should aim for losing him, but that is probably beyond them, so they need to try to avoid him while preparing for a new confrontation. Then the axe breaks, but their practicable objectives don't change at all. They just randomly meet some added popcorn demons they can easily kill.

And, finally, the weird way the camera is being used. Showing the village would have given the readers a reason more to care about the GAP getting there; but it also would have allowed to show what is happening around the realm. In other words, is Brassmoon being destroyed by demons? What about the village, or random civilians living on the countryside? How urgent is this axe thing, on a planetary scale?

[Laurentio III]

In other words, is Brassmoon being destroyed by demons? What about the village, or random civilians living on the countryside? How urgent is this axe thing, on a planetary scale?

This comics being this comics, the civilians' life is so random and gluesome that being molested by demons is just a thursday.

[Kish]

For you, the day the Axe of Prissian broke and demons rampaged through Brassmoon City was the most important day of your life. But to me, it was Thursday.

[Fyraltari]

Having the comic's borders gradually fill with blood and gore since the Axe got damaged, to represent hell seeping into the mortal plane was a really great idea that gave a palpable sense of emergency to the situation.

Now, it's just how the borders look.

[Lurkmoar]

Having the comic's borders gradually fill with blood and gore since the Axe got damaged, to represent hell seeping into the mortal plane was a really great idea that gave a palpable sense of emergency to the situation.

Now, it's just how the borders look.

Conditioned to accept horror? The slow boiling frog parable? Those people that walked around with The End is Nigh signs?

[Vinyadan]

Thinking about it, Brassmoon was almost overrun by Orcs one year before the story started, then it was attacked by "Fleshripper the Goblin" and his magical friends (+ a stampede of escaping monsters), and now, less than a week later, it might be dealing with a demonic invasion and the floor turning into lava.

[Vinyadan]

New page. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-7-2023

[Laurentio III]

New page. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-7-2023

«It would help if just, for a minute, stop complai-»
«Oh sure, I could stop complaining, or maybe you could stop giving me reason to complain!»

At this point, I would cherrish his dead. Seriously, it's earned.

[sihnfahl]

"Look, just trust us, it'll work!"

"Okay, I'll try it!"

Sees it's working after a single round. Still surrounded. Still not safe.

"Blast it! HOW CAN YOU BE RIGHT!?"

Totally deserves to be smacked if he survives. And gagged.

[Kish]

Idle, Bowst, and Forgath went through this part. Presumably soon everyone will be meeting up to form one giant adventure party of "why are these people together?"

Not that I have any idea why all the protagonists are in the same dungeon now.

Elli needs to work on her pacing. Or her follow-through, one of the two.

[Quild]

Idle, Bowst, and Forgath went through this part. Presumably soon everyone will be meeting up to form one giant adventure party of "why are these people together?"

Not that I have any idea why all the protagonists are in the same dungeon now.

Elli needs to work on her pacing. Or her follow-through, one of the two.

The issue is not pacing but slow updates. If you re-read the pages, it will be fast enough and you'll be more able to judge the pacing.

That being said, even without re-reading, I remember that:
- MM is with the GAP because he used the tea-thing (from Maze of Many) to track and fight them. They were attacked by Kore and ended fleeing together and started putting their differences aside.
- Forgath delayed Kore, had his own adventure making him mostly Klik and then went into the Dungeon to find MM.
- Kin used the tea-thing to find MM after she started realizing they were connected.
- Kore is here to track and kill the GAP. And everything else he judges evil in the process (that is, everything)
- Dies is not in that dungeon, so not all the protaconists are here!

[Pax1138]

Man, how long has it been since we've seen Dies? Has it been a real-world decade yet?

Edit:
Think it's this one, from 11/23/2012: Someone Dies Horribly

[Kish]

Consider the possibility that I mean what I say, Quild.

(Pax1138 may be talking about real-world time; I'm talking about things like the fact that the ominous "murder dwarf knows where the goblins' peaceful village is" was at the beginning of book 2, and since they left Brassmoon City the plot has become tiny occasional bits of plot in a sea of "look, another simultaneously scary and goofy dungeon room!")

[Vinyadan]

Man, how long has it been since we've seen Dies? Has it been a real-world decade yet?

Edit:
Think it's this one, from 11/23/2012: Someone Dies Horribly

I wonder who was doing colours and lights for that one, it looks pretty different from what we have today.

Otherwise, things go as usual, in the Muddy Tunnel of Decreased Intelligence. But I find it pretty funny that Complains actually looks outraged. It's like he's going "I'M OFFENDED!" about people reaching conclusions through observation and offering them as advice.

[Morgaln]

I wonder who was doing colours and lights for that one, it looks pretty different from what we have today.

Otherwise, things go as usual, in the Muddy Tunnel of Decreased Intelligence. But I find it pretty funny that Complains actually looks outraged. It's like he's going "I'M OFFENDED!" about people reaching conclusions through observation and offering them as advice.

That was Cheyenne Wright, of Girl Genius fame. There was a (short-lived) time where Elli admitted that she couldn't shoulder it all alone and hired Cheyenne to do the coloring. The comic was arguably better for it, but it didn't last as the two had a falling out after a bit.

As for Complains, he's basically like a stereotypical teenager. Tell him to do something and he'll do the opposite just out of spite, and he thinks he knows better than anyone else in any given scenario. In any decent horror movie, that would make him top of the list of victims, but for all its gruesomeness and body horror, Goblins does have a fair bit of (necessary) plot armor.

[Murk]

I'm pretty sure the linked comic wasn't Cheyenne yet.
Looked it up: it was Forest Rhodes ("Morikahn") who was doing the colouring during the linked page. Not sure when he started, sometime after 2011 I believe (because Elli/Danielle were still doing their own colouring then). He left in May 2013 and Elli took over the colouring herself again, then in January 2017 Cheyenne came.

[Steven]

New comic up. Nothing happens.

[Murk]

New comic up. Nothing happens.

For all that I grumble about the upload speed of this comic I have immense respect for Elli's patience.
This is very much a transition page (nothing happens, indeed).
Transition pages are probably very important when you read the comic as a whole, but I just can't imagine spending weeks on drawing a page where nothing really happens. I wouldn't have the discipline for it - I'd probably just skip ahead to the cool parts, so to say.

[Steven]

For all that I grumble about the upload speed of this comic I have immense respect for Elli's patience.
This is very much a transition page (nothing happens, indeed).
Transition pages are probably very important when you read the comic as a whole, but I just can't imagine spending weeks on drawing a page where nothing really happens. I wouldn't have the discipline for it - I'd probably just skip ahead to the cool parts, so to say.

This is true. My general frustration with the pacing and what I see as deeply unfunny bits like the previous page has overflowed and is making me grumble about things that are not actually bad, just not very fun in the context of a comic I'm waiting weeks between page. It's an unfair criticism.

[Pax1138]

If nothing else, pages are being updated more quickly than we've been used to for a while, so I'll take that as a positive.

[Anonymouswizard]

If nothing else, pages are being updated more quickly than we've been used to for a while, so I'll take that as a positive.

I think her Patreon is set to payments per update (instead of per month), so I'm guessing there's a bit of financial necessity involved as well as an awareness that this can't be solved with a one off crowdfund. Honestly I'd much rather the pace of the updates be driven by her inspiration for the comic but the lack is also the reason I dropped Goblins for ~6 years.