Results 121 to 150 of 758
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2023-05-18, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Ugh, I really should have remembered this one. It's pretty critical, after all.
I don't feel bad about not remembering this one, though. It would be pretty funny if MitD was like "Hey, it's little dude who was getting his bone on." That probably won't happen because I don't think the moment will be undercut by humor that badly, but it's a funny thought.
Well, there's less subjectivity in trying to figure out his species, since there are rules around that sort of thing. I'm not sure what evidence we have to guess at his backstory.
To wit:
Okay, but what does that mean and what should we conclude from it?
(I'm also not even sure his backstory is important. And I'm not sure what his plot relevance is beyond the quite obvious setup that per his story of personal growth, he's going to flip sides at some crucial moment.)
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2023-05-18, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
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2023-05-18, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Why so many people hope Belkar will die? Once, in the comic old days, when it was more about silly jokes, I so much liked his black humor.
I still remember one of his jokes - "it starts with 's' and ends with 'litting their throats'".
Now he is still evil, but way too serious.
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2023-05-18, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
It's less "hope" and more "the prophecy has been worded several different ways that it would be cheap and poor writing to have them all resolve separately without death, and also the Oracle actually kmows the future and hates Belkar and has no reason to take pleasure in Belkar's fate if itls ridiculous things like 'he will paint a painting called "last breath ever'".
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-05-18, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2022
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Not hope. We KNOW he will die because the Oracle can see the exact future. In both visits the party made to him, he said Belkar was going to die. Then he formalized it with the prophecy he gave Roy. Belkar is absolutely going to die because the Oracle's predictions have never been wrong, and appear to be incapable of being wrong.
But what happens after his death? If he becomes undead, or a ghost, or reincarnates into someone new and no longer falls himself Belkar Bitterleaf? Now that is where things get interesting. After all, Mr Scruffy still needs someone to look after him.If you think "interesting" is an anticlimax, I feel sorry for you because it means you don't really know about interesting.
~Robin McKinley
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2023-05-18, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
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- Israel
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Well, I think exactly the opposite. Oracle never said "Belkar will die", so I believe that's because he won't. Thats the way with all his prophecies actually.
We will wait and find out one day.
(My answer applies to both posts above)Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-05-18 at 01:03 PM.
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2023-05-18, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2022
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
"the halfling shouldn't bother funding his IRA." "He should savor his next birthday cake."
"your pal isn't long for this world." "Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath - EVER - before the end of the year."
Add these four statements together and tell me what other conclusion could possibly be drawn.If you think "interesting" is an anticlimax, I feel sorry for you because it means you don't really know about interesting.
~Robin McKinley
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2023-05-18, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-05-18, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2023-05-18, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Oh, shoot! I should have seen that one coming from a mile away.
I'm very glad that you asked, actually!
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2023-05-18, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I'll try to explain what I mean.
In most of books, and this one too, prophecies never mean literally what they say. Yes, each of Oracle's prophecies are alegories\parables. But their meaning can only be understood in one way - Belkar will die. And that's where the catch is. Oracle (actually author) wants us to be sure that prophecy will shoot in one specific way. And the very meaning of prophecies in books is to never work as expected.
Kish, okay, if you want.
My bet: Belkar will not die, or change to something completely different.
Exception if he dies from old age in epilogue.
If I lose, call me a pig three times in a row in public.Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-05-18 at 01:26 PM.
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2023-05-18, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Ok, i nees you to explain this to me. The Oracle tells Eugene Xykon's name, tells Roy and Durkon where Xykon is, tells Roy which of two Gates Xykon will be at first, tells Haley to not overthink things to fix her aphasia, tells V the exact circumstances that they will get the power they crave, tells Belkar that he will kill at least one of a list of potential targets, tells Durkon he will die before returning home....
I'm not seeing any evidence of what you're claiming. And even in literature, if someone is told they're going to do something, and they try to take actions to prevent it, they just end up doing that thing anyway, so what you claim isn't even necessarily true in other stories. And that's not even factoring in that other stories dont affect what happens in this story.
Like, from all the information we have, expecting Belkar to live is the hopefulness, not expecting him to die. Again, if you can explain how, exactly, the Oracle has been wrong about anything, please, im all ears. The only one you can even really argue on is Durkon's, and he still straight-up died, so the expectation was still met perfectly, there was just more information (that a vampire would hijack his body) that wasn't revealed. But the expectation of death still came about. Belkar? Not needing to worry about retirement isnt meeting any expectations. Its wishful thinking relying on nothing but "well i think hes funny" and only supported by bad storytelling.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-05-18, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I don't think I can explain any better, never was good in this.
One thing comes to mind actually.
From Pratchett (not exact quote):
'Would the sun really never rise again?'
'Yes.'
'And what would happen?'
'The world would be illuminated by a giant orb of very heated gas.'
Never was good at disputes, can't explain any better.
But I do bet Belkar won't die.Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-05-18 at 01:54 PM.
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2023-05-18, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Here's the thing. You're explaining your position perfectly fine. The reason you can't explain it better is because it's wrong. Your entire claim that this is how the Oracle's prophecies have worked is wrong. Your claim that this is how prophecies in fiction in general work is wrong (and irrelevant, but it's more important to note that it's wrong).
The issue is not with your explanation not being better. It can't be better, because there's nothing more you can say that will explain it, because its wrong.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-05-18, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2023-05-18, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Location
- Israel
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Okay, I guess you can be right.
Again, I hate arguing.
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2023-05-18, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I used to expect that there would be some twist to the prophecy on the grounds that it would be boring if we were just told a thing would happen and it happened. There was a twist to Durkon's, after all, even if it still came true.
But Belkar's redemption arc has given the prophecy a clear narrative purpose- it's dramatic irony. It gives the whole storyline a tragic undercurrent that wouldn't exist if we expected him to get a happy ending because of his redemption.
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2023-05-18, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I take it that nobody's getting aboard the air gnome extraplanar forced labour train, then? That makes me sad(, even as I don't think it's particularly likely).
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2023-05-18, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2023-05-18, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2023-05-18, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2022
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Last edited by ZhonLord; 2023-05-18 at 02:43 PM.
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2023-05-18, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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2023-05-18, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
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2023-05-18, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2023-05-20, 05:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Location
- Israel
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
To keep this thread alive, two more predictions.
6) Redcloak will be killed by Dark One himself, either as punishment for failure, or betrayed by him. Dark One is evil, don't forget.
7) MitD will play an important role in the very end, not in just eating Xykon, as said before, but in finding a permanent solution with Snarl-vs-Gods dilemma.
And my opinion on another prediction from this thread:
There won't be battle in Astral Fortress, but the Final Battle will be joined by all surviving members of other factions.Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-05-20 at 05:14 AM.
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2023-05-20, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2022
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I wager 2 brand new pairs of shoes that O-Chul will be among those who die permanently before the end of the story, as a long-delayed dramatic climax to Elan's prediction of death.
If you think "interesting" is an anticlimax, I feel sorry for you because it means you don't really know about interesting.
~Robin McKinley
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2023-05-20, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Can TDO even do that? The gods aren't really allowed to act directly on the material plane, so I'm not sure how that would work.
I'll bet against that. It may just be hope, or a firm conviction that O-Chul is too great a character to imagine his story ending here. If it were necessary for the story, then it could certainly happen, but I also don't see from here how it would be necessary.
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2023-05-20, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
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2023-05-20, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-05-20, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Gender
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Hmm, I suppose you are correct. Your comment reminded me that Hel was going to try to give Durkon a heart attack before Thor intervened, so it looks like it is indeed more an agreement among the gods than something hardwired into the rules for the Material Plane.