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2023-11-08, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
I wouldn't call it a matter of "consideration". It literally wasn't a defensive war, Austro-Hungary and Germany struck first. Italy was thus under no obligation to join the war on the side of it's treaty allies as they quite literally had taken an action that disqualified the alliance. Romania likewise decided not to join an offensive war. They also later joined the Entente powers.
The Central Powers of WW1, German Empire, Austro-Hungary, Ottoman empire and Bulgaria are in English usually named the "Central Powers", because well they were central geographically in Europe and sandwiched centrally between the members of the Entente. They are also apparently sometimes known a the Quadruple Alliance, since there were actually four of them by 1915.
I agree on the use of Entente, mostly because as soon as you say the Allies it brings up a picture of WW2 which tend sot overshadow WW1 in almost every way imaginable in the public consciousness.
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2023-11-09, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that happened, but it looks to be because I first drew an 8 sided star and then turned the points into bastions, while you started your designs by drawing an octagon and then drew bastions on the corners. So you're working from a flat side "pointing" straight up while in my attempt a bastion is pointing straight up.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2023-11-09, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
The short answer is you can't. I mean, you can make a kind of bastioned fort that has 45 and 90 degree angles only, but the angles won't be right for the correct placement of defensive artillery.
The typical way to start such a sketch is to draw a polygon with the right number of points. For example, if you wanted a fortress with eight bastions, then you draw an octagon. The points of the octagon will be the points of the bastions, and the walls we drawn inward. Then it's a matter of old school compass and straight edge construction to get the walls.
I don't have time at the moment, but if you can find a copy of Ian V. Hogg's Fortress, I think it will walk you through the basic construction.
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2023-11-09, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Well shoot. There goes my hope of putting a realistic star fort into relatively primitive RPG mapmaking software. I might pick up that book. But I’d definitely choose CAD over compass and straightedge. That makes it much easier to define mathematical relations between certain measurements and then freely tweak the remaining measurements to see how you like the result.
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2023-11-09, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
If you extend the outer lines of the bastion, they should intersect the main wall, at the point that the flank of the adjacent bastion connects to the main wall.
I apologize -- I need to take pictures from the books that I have then find some place to upload them so I can share. It's a lot easier to understand with pictures.
The compass/straight-edge construction means you don't concern yourself with angles -- the angles result from connecting points you draw. You might need to consider some ratios of lengths of walls (how large you want the bastions), but that's about it.
Having said that, some earlier works didn't necessarily follow these rules, so what you drew is not entirely unrealistic.
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2023-11-09, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Last edited by Maat Mons; 2023-11-09 at 09:00 PM.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2023-11-09, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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2023-11-09, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Vauban Fortress design, from Ian V. Hogg's Fortress, pg. 54
Text (same citation)Spoiler: Drawing board approach
Let me know if that works.
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2023-11-25, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Hastings, MN
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Quick question about an armor piece:
Spoiler: Please direct your attention to the 1250 Knight
What's the name of that square armor piece on his shoulder?"Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."
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2023-11-26, 03:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
I would have called that a pauldron, but I looked it up and that's wrong. A pauldron is a later piece that covers the armpit as well as the shoulder. The pauldron developed from the spaulder, a version that only covers the top of the shoulder. So I guess what you see here could be considered an early spaulder, the most basic version, just a flat shoulder plate over the mail.
There's probably at least one even more specific term for it, it looks distinctive enough that someone would have made up a seperate word. But early spaulder is at least close.
The 1330-1450 knights seem to be using more typical examples of spaulders, with 1525 wearing pauldrons.Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2023-11-26 at 04:00 AM.
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2023-11-26, 04:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
It was called ailette, at least in medieval French, and thus in English as result, and it's very debatable if it was even armor or more of a heraldic device.
Certainly the way it was, and where it was, mounted doesn't seem to be about protection. Clavicle certainly can be damaged if some powerful strike lands from above, but the way they were strapped, it seem they would mostly protect large deltoid muscle where there isnt' much bone exposed.
Last edited by Spiryt; 2023-11-26 at 09:44 AM.
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2023-11-26, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Hastings, MN
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Thank you!
"Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."
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2023-11-26, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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- United States
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
The desire to appear clever often impedes actually being so.
What makes the vanity of others offensive is the fact that it wounds our own.
Quarrels don't last long if the fault is only on one side.
Nothing is given so generously as advice.
We hardly ever find anyone of good sense, except those who agree with us.
-Francois, Duc de La Rochefoucauld
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2023-11-27, 03:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
The alleges remind me of Japanese sode (shoukder armor plates).
Sode, especially those extending away from the body, are more for protection from arrows than melee. You can think of them more akin to shields strapped to the shoulders than as traditional armor.
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2023-11-27, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
I just found it on my Pinterest, and it doesn't seem like there's bigger resolution. Google image search yielded one though:
https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...hQ&oe=65699E3F
The alleges remind me of Japanese sode (shoukder armor plates).
Sode, especially those extending away from the body, are more for protection from arrows than melee. You can think of them more akin to shields strapped to the shoulders than as traditional armor.
Sode are large, properly fitted to arm, and made from iron lames exactly like the rest of the armor though.
Those were seemingly mostly small bits of leather, or even wool, losely strapped to mail. If those were for additional protecton, one would probably armor something other than shoulders.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2023-12-19, 04:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
How often would the cloth layer of brigandine need to be repaired? It seems counterintuitive to me that the most easily damage part is on the outside.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2023-12-19, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
My guess to the why of the brigandine:
1) A popular way to defeat armor was trying to get between the plates. That is near impossible to do reliably and on purpose when you can't see the plates and have to stab through a layer of cloth to even start probing.
2) Iron/steel exposed to the elements is vulnerable to rust, making the garment less durable in the long run, and it easily conducts heat and cold to the wearer, making it uncomfortable on everything but a nice spring day.
Although both of these could be fixed with just a cloth garment worn over the armor itself...
As for the repairing: probably quite often. The upside is that tailoring is a skill quite a few people had, making it less expensive than "proper" armoring.
So that in fact may be the main reason for the construction in the first place. It's easier to repair this way?Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2023-12-19 at 06:32 AM.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2023-12-19, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
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2023-12-19, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Speaking of rivets and style, would it be any kind of problem to make the rivets from brass or bronze? It's weaker than steel, but the rivets don't hold plates to other plates, they hold plates to cloth, and I feel like the cloth is always going to be the weakest link in terms of making sure the plates stay riveted to the cloth.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2023-12-19, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
This is a bit outside my expertise, so a few grains of salt required.. using brass rivets is commonly done in metalwork for decorative purposes. However when the metal is under heavy stress having fasteners of different properties to the pieces being joined has many more pathways to failure than having fasteners of similar qualities. Another consideration is corrosion where the different properties may lead to unequal corrosion.
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2023-12-19, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
There are plenty of brigandines with copper alloy rivets.
Don't think difference in strength would be all that great, seems that brasses in particular have pretty solid shear strength, comparable to mild steels.
Resistance to corrosion would probably be quite desirable there.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2023-12-19, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Tulips Cheese & Rock&Roll
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Tying into this: I think it's more of an "everyday armor", in the sense that yes, you could wear it as a fashion statement, or while traveling, or when marching towards battle, still a day out but half expecting to be ambushed. It's not as protective but also not as unfomfortable as say full plate, even masterfully fitted plate. Kind of an adventurer's armor. So that's maybe where my point 2 from earlier comes in. It makes a bit more sense to have the main cloth layer on the outside if you're expecting to be hit by harsh sunshine or freezing rain more than by enemy halberds. Yes, the cloth or the rivets could break, but at least you're not freezing your ass off and you don't have to replace a fully rusted set of armor.
Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2023-12-19 at 03:03 PM.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2023-12-19, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Funny you would mention it being a good armor choice for adventurers. I was thinking about brigandine in the first place because a YouTube channel I follow put out a video titled "What is the BEST ARMOR for fantasy ADVENTURERS?" where two of the three dudes gave brigandine as their answers.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2023-12-20, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Assuming weight and cost weren't issues, but size and practicality still were... What changes would someone make to a rapier? Maybe a wider blade to give it more cutting capacity?
And what about a short sword, considering the same limitations?Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
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2023-12-20, 12:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
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2023-12-20, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
If weight is not an issue, but size and practicality are, then you probably want the largest size sword you still think is practical.
I think half the point of a rapier is that weight is an issue. The design gets a lot of reach out of a blade still light enough to be fast. I think if you want something with a bit more heft and swing to it in the same period you're probably going to look more towards a sabre or something.
What kind of application are you thinking of? You're looking to arm historic fencing master Arnold Schwarzenegger?The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2023-12-20, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Well... It's basically a race of humanoids in a setting more or less similar to 1600's Europe. They are considerably stronger than humans and dueling is part of their culture.
Last edited by Lemmy; 2023-12-20 at 03:07 AM.
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2023-12-20, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Swords intended for dueling will be shaped by the rules the society uses for duels. If both parties begin with their swords sheathed and standing close together, dueling will revolve largely around who can get their sword out the fastest. This will cause people to favor curved blades that aren't all that long. If duels begin with both parties already having weapons in hand and standing some distance apart, longer weapons with greater reach will be preferred. And then there's the issue of whether dueling is done with armor or without. That too will change weapon choice.
Last edited by Maat Mons; 2023-12-20 at 06:53 AM.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2023-12-20, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX
Last edited by Spiryt; 2023-12-20 at 08:51 AM.
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2023-12-20, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXX