Completely Inconsequential Hot-Takes 2: People Take Too Long to Post New Threads

[LaZodiac]

gunna have to agree to disagree on that one then.

plus it's not just calling out plot-holes, they call out stupid decisions made by characters / directors to make the story move forwards too among other things.

"It's just for laughs" is not actually true by the admission of the guy who makes the dang things.

anyway here's the video, and a follow up, if you're willing to hear what he actually has to say. He explains very concisely and clearly why CinemaSins is absolute trash from the ground up, and ever since I saw them and stopped watching them my life has been substantially better in at least some small regard.

[Ionathus]

so he... he knows it's all a joke right?

He knows that everything that goes into cinimasins is all a joke?

Oh everyone knows Cinemasins is doing it to be funny. the problem is, pointing out plot holes by itself just isn't funny.

Yep, exactly. The first few videos were funny to me, back when they were like 3 minutes long. It's entertaining when the "sins" are nitpicks, or silly continuity observations, or snappy one-liners. Go back to the early Cinema Sins and see how fast his critiques are. Compare them to what the format turned into after a few years, where the videos are sometimes a 20-minute slog and he can rant for upwards of a minute on a single "sin" without ever making anything resembling a joke.

So my main problem with Cinema Sins is that, for something that claims to be a comedy channel, it's painfully unfunny. That's as much as I need to not like it and avoid their videos.

My other problem, which the referenced video from bobvids finally helped me articulate, is that if Cinema Sins is meant to be actual satire -- and not just a wannabe movie critic trying to worm his way into the big leagues with plausible deniability -- it's bad satire. Mixing genuine criticism with obvious, cartoonish ignorance makes for a very weird viewing experience. Am I meant to agree with this guy and think he's smart and insightful? Or am I supposed to think he's an idiot?

I can always tell when, say, Honest Trailers or Pitch Meeting are joking vs. when they're making a serious critique. By contrast, Cinema Sins feels like that kind of "Schrodinger's weirdo" who couches every statement as a joke, because he thinks it'll make him immune to criticism or soften the blow of his weird behavior if anyone calls him out on it.

Because inconsequential hot take: i feel like people who have actual legitimate problems with CinimaSins don't realize that it's all just to be funny, and they don't actually hate the movies.

The problem is that it's not "just" to be funny. He mixes actual critiques in with "funny misunderstandings", with no clear distinction between them. This is the main complaint from bobvids, the response video guy we linked. The (incorrect) nitpicks that Cinema Sins makes get interpreted as actual legitimate criticism by viewers of CS's videos, who then think the reviewed movie is actually bad because of these nitpicks-that-are-only-nitpicks-unless-I'm-called-out-then-they're-jokes-ha-ha-I'm-not-incorrect-I'm-just-in-on-the-joke.

I think bobvids is overly harsh on Cinema Sins, and I think it's all probably some degree of "old man yells at cloud" since it probably won't be bringing down CS or even getting him to change his ways anytime soon. He's fighting a one-man probably-misguided battle out of principle, which I respect but don't plan to join anytime soon.

But I do recommend at least seeing his Cabin In The Woods response video that LaZodiac linked, if you haven't already. It's a superb breakdown of the criticism about Cinema Sins's style, especially their frequent and deliberate ignorance about basic storytelling conventions, and it was a cathartic watch for me, after being so annoyed at their delivery style every time I tried to get into a recent EWW video.

I prefer Pitch Meeting for that.

I agree wholeheartedly. Pitch Meeting has the good sense to get in and get out quickly, only talk about the stuff that's actually humorous to talk about, and keep it all sustained with a very upbeat tone that keeps the critique lighthearted. Ryan George is very good at pointing out the same mistakes that Cinema Sins does, in a fraction of the time, and with an actual punchline.

[The_Snark]

Funny enough, explicitly supernatural elements have been in the franchise since at least 1988's Scooby-Doo! and the Reluctant Werewolf.

It's preceded (very slightly) by Scooby-Doo and the Ghoul School, wherein Shaggy and Scooby are hired as gym teachers at a finishing school for girls... who all happen to be the daughters of classic horror movie monsters: vampires, werewolves, mummies, etc. Different plot, but similar vibes. I have no idea who pitched these two movies, they seem like a marked departure from the traditional Scooby-doo formula. Doesn't stop me from feeling nostalgic for them.

Edit - apparently there's a third from the same era, Scooby-Doo and the Boo Brothers. But the tiny middle-of-nowhere video rental place that was my sole source of TV media when I was a small child visiting extended family did not have that one, so I never saw it!

[LaZodiac]

It's preceded (very slightly) by Scooby-Doo and the Ghoul School, wherein Shaggy and Scooby are hired as gym teachers at a finishing school for girls... who all happen to be the daughters of classic horror movie monsters: vampires, werewolves, mummies, etc. Different plot, but similar vibes. I have no idea who pitched these two movies, they seem like a marked departure from the traditional Scooby-doo formula. Doesn't stop me from feeling nostalgic for them.

Edit - apparently there's a third from the same era, Scooby-Doo and the Boo Brothers. But the tiny middle-of-nowhere video rental place that was my sole source of TV media when I was a small child visiting extended family did not have that one, so I never saw it!

And lets not forget Thirteen Ghosts of Scooby Doo, a series released in 1985. And the fact that almost all the films Scooby Doo has as a cartoon series involve some degree of the supernatural being real this time. Calling the live action Gun lead Scooby Doo a unique shift to real monsters is just flatly inaccurate on the part of that video.

[Draconi Redfir]

The problem is that it's not "just" to be funny. He mixes actual critiques in with "funny misunderstandings", with no clear distinction between them.

so the problem is that he does... two different things at once? That's pretty common though. Heck look at where we are, order of the stick has funny moments AND serious moments on the same page all the time.

[Ionathus]

so the problem is that he does... two different things at once? That's pretty common though. Heck look at where we are, order of the stick has funny moments AND serious moments on the same page all the time.

"With no clear distinction between them" is the sticking point for me. When other popular reviewers like Pitch Meeting or Honest Trailers "miss the point," I feel like I can at least tell. With Cinema Sins, I can never tell if he's being wrong on purpose or if he's just genuinely wrong and hiding behind "it's just a joke, bro!" to shield himself from criticism.

His Cabin In The Woods video is a great example of this: he "sins" a lot of things that are blatantly not mistakes, they're intentional storytelling choices that are making a point about horror movies as a genre. He criticizes The Organization for shoehorning Jules and Dana into sacrificial archetype "roles" that don't fit them (in fact, they'd probably fit better if you swapped them), but that's the entire point of the movie: that lazy horror movies make their characters act like idiotic shallow parodies of a few stereotypes, rather than unique humans with critical thinking.

His criticism on that point isn't even close to being a joke, and he's missed the point the writers were going for. But he's not framing his criticism as blatant, know-it-all incorrectness -- the way he presents his argument makes it seem like he truly believes his own critiques are correct. I have no idea whether I'm supposed to take it as a joke or as genuine criticism, but it doesn't work on either front regardless.

Seriously, watch a few minutes of the response video to see what I'm talking about. Unless you haven't seen Cabin In The Woods, then go watch that first, because it's great.