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2024-03-27, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2024-03-27, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
It doesn't help the story. I'm simply pointing out that the identity is recognizable.
As I stated in the previous post "can be guessed".
If it's something only Rich and maybe twenty other people known about, it may as well be something he made up.
It also can't be guessed.
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2024-03-27, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Now, I'm not an expert at reading 2e stat block, but from what I've seen the brewer of the 3.5 version tried to make it as faithful a conversion as possible. The main differences I noticed are three small details: the 2e version is Gargantuan instead of Huge (though I don't know wether the borders between the sizes have changed), it has an ability to deal extra damage to buildings that got replaced with Trample, and its Nightmare ability is psionic, instead of spell-like (and therefore not affected by the whole defiling magic thing).
If you want to compare them for yourself, you can find the stats here.
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2024-03-27, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
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2024-03-27, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
The worm in #1158 is a Nightcrawler. It might not help in the story, but weird monsters like these can help us in the MitD guessing game by showing how the Giant applies the D&D rules. In this case, the D&D rules list that the Nightcrawler doesn't speak any languages, though it has a high Int. Yet in OotS, this Nightcrawler speaks in #1164 in a way that Belkar understands. This makes it less objectionable to suggest MitD candidates that supposedly can't speak.
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2024-03-27, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2024-03-27, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Very similar, just the 2E version isn't as good a fit. Not as tough or strong, and has psionic dimension door (1000' range) instead of psionic teleport.
Edit - With the last few removals, just noticed the FBS list is now down to 5 candidates, one of which is the Carb Amorph. If this was a couple years ago, I'd probably argue for adding a candidate or two. But I feel like we're getting into the endgame now and its appropriate for the list to shrink. Plus, I'm not eager for the war that would likely ensue.
Edit2 - Also, just noticed the Uvuudaum has Blindsight (500') which doesn't 100% mean it lacks eyes (and is therefore blind), but is evidence in that direction.Last edited by Crusher; 2024-03-27 at 12:06 PM.
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2024-03-27, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
IIRC JasdoifDoug Lampert pointed out that there is a rule that if there are no listed languages on a creature, the DM can give them as many languages as their INT bonus allows; 5, in the case of the nightcrawler. Or, in-universe, it just means that that the creature will know that many languages, just without a predilection for any specific one.
This, if anything, makes it worse for a number of candidates that are high-INT and don't have an explanation for surprise at MitD talking. It could be surprising, I suppose that they speak in common, given the many languages they could speak, but not that they are talking at all.
Same.
Tzardok even provided a fluff quote explicitly addressing that they have no eyes. Did I forget to add it to the OP?
ETA: no, I did. The fluff says it has a tail-like spike instead of a head. But I've gone ahead and added the blindsight as further indication it probably does not have eyes.
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2024-03-27 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Corrected attribution (h/t b_jonas for finding it)
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2024-03-27, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
You're right (though it wasn't Jasdoif). The rules on “Reading The Monster Entries” says “A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).” So it's not even just creatures with high intelligence, but most creatures considered here speak at least one language per rules. I didn't know this, I thought the bonus languages based on intelligence applied only to player characters. Maybe the stereotypical big game hunters didn't know it either, because they usually hunt for big game with intelligence 1 or 2? Thank you for pointing that out.
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2024-03-27, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I'm going to go all nit-pick-ity and point out that "understand" is a step under "speak". I more-or-less understand french (if spoken slowly, or if I read it) but it has been a long time since I was able to speak it in any capacity (and by "any" I mean "DELF 2"). The SBGH aren't so much surprised they are being understood as much as the creature is talking back.
It still makes little sense, mind you, but still, nits have been picked.
(Thanks for finding the post, btw)
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2024-03-27 at 02:46 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2024-03-27, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Well, there really is a little difference between something from MM, available online and for free in the SRD that one doesn't just immediately recognize and something from a 3rd party psionic adventure that someone somewhere apparently owns, as evidenced by the Xenocrysth being on the list. If you ask me, anyhow.
Speaking of, could someone explain to me how that teraport thing even works in the other comic? (And maybe tell me if the author of that one really named a major character after Captagon?)
Edit2 - Also, just noticed the Uvuudaum has Blindsight (500') which doesn't 100% mean it lacks eyes (and is therefore blind), but is evidence in that direction.
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2024-03-27, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Nothing says a thingy with a spike for a head can't eat, just because it doesn't have a mouth. It's a Far Realms entity after all. Maybe it rams its head-spike just into the food and slurps up its foodness. That's why it likes stew so much; stew is easy to pierce. The letter just caused it to bleed from its spike, for papercuts are an integral part of a paper's foodness.
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2024-03-27, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Hmm, that's true. The Comprehend languages spell makes a distinction, and that spell exists in OOTS (#247 6th panel).
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2024-03-27, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I'd have the monster stepping out of the darkness happen in the final fight at the same time that it fully decides to join the side of good, helping turn the tide of the final fight. The main plot is then resolved with little direct involvement from MitD after team evil is defeated*. (Maybe a moment in there where the start of darkness hypnosis kicks in to make it a little more complicated?)
Then we get a nice epilogue montage of characters, including one with the Monster chilling out, having fun. Perhaps he's being mentored by O-Chul as a positive father figure! Or maybe he's friends with Mr. Scruffy after Belkars death! Something wholesome like that.
Note that this works just as well whether he's a Protean, a Glabrezu, or whatever else.
*-Remember that Rich said he didn't make this up, which makes me inclined to believe that he won't have anything to do with the Snarl or IFCC
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2024-03-27, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
The problem is, this is all subjective. "May as well be" is not the same thing as "is." And considering a creature "something only Rich and maybe twenty other people know about" is not something you know objectively; it's just a feeling you have. Similarly, "recognizable" is a subjective standard you have that isn't well-defined.
That's all well and good for your personal opinion, but it doesn't give us any real objective standard by which to evaluate a species as a fit (like, say, the powers MitD has shown do).
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2024-03-28, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
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2024-03-28, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
It's a technological gadget small enough to easily hold in your hand which is also an effectively instantaneous interstellar drive. You disappear from here, and reappear there, even if there is 100,000 light years away. It's accurate enough that with good tracking data you can go from on the ground here to a ship's bridge there.
The power supply changes over time, but is initially a trivial number of random atoms in the material being sent being converted to energy.
There are defenses, but without defenses you can send a bomb or missile anywhere.
Amorphs can have internal equipment they control by their mind (although internal mechanisms on amorphs did not appear in Schlock Mercenary till after the MitD identity was decided, but reputedly Howard Tayler and Rich know each other and could have discussed this prior to such gear appearing in comic), so it's effectively possible for an Amorph to have an ability, which absent a defense system, is "send anything near me to anywhere in the universe I have coordinates for and want it to be".
I have no idea who Captagon is, but Captain Kaff Tagon is a major character of the comic.
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2024-03-28, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
If there is a D&D monster to fit the clues that need fitting, and Rich has a story on top of that for people who don’t care about D&D monsters, what in the top story does the monster need to fit?
What is the final fight? I picture Roy’s side vs. Xykon’s side, but neither of us think the Monster in the Dark is going to stay on Xykon’s side, and I think we’re supposed to think that Redcloak may not be there either.
If Redcloak and the Monster in the Dark betray Xykon in the same fight, do you worry there will be betrayal fatigue?
If Redcloak goes missing ahead of the fight, do you worry that the final fight will seem lopsided if it’s just Xykon and the Monster in the Dark at the beginning of it?
Or maybe Rich leans in and makes it about Xykon getting stripped of his assets and dying cold and alone? (Not literally. Green fire is probably involved.)
We are all here because we like the story. Rich wants us to like the story and puts significant effort into writing a story we, his audience, will like. Refusing to investigate other people’s expectations for the reveal assumes that Rich is no better than chance at entertaining us.
What does that assumption buy us? Less arguments? I don’t see it. An ability to tell others they’re objectively wrong? We do that anyways, for every other character's storyline, and in those, the only thing we can talk about are people's expectations.
EDIT:
To rephrase this, are people who don't care about D&D statistics supposed to recognize the monster, or is it enough that they learn people who do care about D&D statistics recognize it?Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2024-03-28 at 11:02 AM.
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-03-28, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
all this talk about non D&D source monsters, reminds me of my top contender. It's listed in the opening post under "frequently suggested ideas", which is the Grue.
From Zork mythology, it would appeal to an old school gamer like the Giant (IMO). It would hit the right nostalgia note for both D&D and non D&D readers. It's a creature that lives in the dark, has never been seen and eats adventurers. Bosch. Sorted.
After years of exhaustive searches through D&D monsterology that has produced no sure-in candidate, frankly, at this point I expect it to be the Grue and I'm just waiting for that reveal.
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2024-03-28, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
The main problem is that the Grue doesn't fit at all. It has never been seen teleporting other people, so the Giant would have made that up if the MitD was a Grue, and Grues are harmed by sunlight, while MitD enjoys it. Unless you have a counter to these arguments, a hypothetical MitD Grue would have been basically made up by Rich.
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2024-03-28, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Huh. That makes more sense than I expected, actually. How does it make eyes glow, though? It was floating behind them and has flashy leds that flash when activated?
I have no idea who Captagon is, but Captain Kaff Tagon is a major character of the comic.
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2024-03-28, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
It wouldn't unless that's added in tOotS to show a power is in use and who is using it. tOotS eyes frequently change to show things about powers and statuses, like X for dead and swirly for mind controlled.
OTOH an amorph's eyes are actually not part of the amorph, an amorph can change shape, but it can't make working eyes. Schlock having his eyes destroyed and needing replacements is a plot point once. Once they start building gear to interface with an amorph, they could presumably build eyes that would glow when teraporting someone if anyone had a good reason to do such a thing. By end of comic (Schlock Mercenary is done) building working custom eyes would be fairly trivial.
The real problems with amorph are (1) teraporting is never shown to be tiring, even when powered by pulling atoms from the person being teraported and (B) you need to actually know where you are sending someone relative to where you are.
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2024-03-28, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Fair.
The real problems with amorph are (1) teraporting is never shown to be tiring, even when powered by pulling atoms from the person being teraported
and (B) you need to actually know where you are sending someone relative to where you are.
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2024-03-28, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-03-28, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
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2024-03-28, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
You can ask but that doesn't mean you get an accurate answer concerning OotS readership as a whole because most readers don't post on the forum. Granted you don't seem to be searching for an accurate answer but asking because not do so would reflect negatively on Rich somehow.
For my part, I don't care what kind of Monster MitD is as I find his character develpoment way more interesting.Last edited by fuschiawarrior; 2024-03-28 at 12:56 PM.
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2024-03-28, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
That much is certainly true. He said so, in fact, and repeatedly. Interestingly enough, however, I find it important to note that one of Ox's expectations certainly had something to it on the author side of things:
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2024-03-28, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
That seems to me more like a statement of how Rich expects the audience will react, not that he's writing to what he thinks they expect.
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2024-03-28, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
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2024-03-28, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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