A thread of loose ends

[MartianInvader]

So, OOTS is well into its last book, and I thought it might be fun to take all the loose ends still hanging around and collect them into a single thread (heh).

So this is a thread for every foreshadowing, unresolved plot point, hinted-at secret, and Chekov's gun we can think of. Here's what we've got so far:

Major Loose Ends
(Big plot points, very likely to be resolved)

• Identity of the Monster in the Darkness.
• Belkar's impending death.
• How the gates actually work:
  
  • What's with the planet and the water on the other side of the gates?
  • What's with the thread-tendrils coming out of the gates?
• The IFCC's plans for the gate:
  
  • How they will use their remaining two yoinks on V.
  • How Sabine will be involved.

Medium Loose Ends
(Might get resolved, might be left open or brought up in a sequel):

• Minrah's secret that Thor mentions.
• The details of the Order of the Scribble falling out.
• Belkar saving Hinjo's life again.
• Elan's secret plan against his father:
  
  • The fate of Haley's father.
  • How Sabine might be involved.
• The plan Roy made with Roy's Archon just before being resurrected.

Minor Loose Ends
(Suspiciously hinted at, but don't necessarily need to be resolved)

• What Roy was planning with Durkon in #1280.
• What's inside Xykon's Astral fortress and why (narratively) he has it.
• The escaped Vampire in Dwarven lands.
• The prize for winning the bet between Thor and Hel.
• What happened to Laurin in the desert.
• Haley's ultimate secret.

What am I missing? Anyone have some to add?

[Doug Lampert]

So, OOTS is well into its last book, and I thought it might be fun to take all the loose ends still hanging around and collect them into a single thread (heh).

So this is a thread for every foreshadowing, unresolved plot point, hinted-at secret, and Chekov's gun we can think of. Here's what I've got so far:

• Identity of the Monster in the Darkness.
• Belkar's impending death.
• Elan's secret plan against his father (and by extension, the fate of Haley's father).
• The IFCC's plans for the gate (and by extension, how they will use their remaining two yoinks on V).
• The actual location of Kraagor's gate.
• What's inside Xykon's Astral fortress and how it will be used.
• The escaped Vampires in Dwarven lands.
• The prize for winning the bet between Thor and Hel (this is kind of a minor one, but Hel hints at it in #1083).

What am I missing? Anyone have some to add?

The planet in the rift.
The dramatic return of TriGak.
(Subpoint for the IFCC) What Sabine's doing?

Things I don't think belong:
Elan's secret plan works best if it is forever a secret and handled off page.
I see no reason to think Xykon's Astral fortress has any further role in the story.
If the escaped vampire (singular as far as I know) is never seen again, I will not feel that Rich somehow neglected to deal with this.

[SlashDash]

You forgot:

• The major cliffhanger in the desert. Snarl busting through the rift and what happened to Laurin.
• The whole "what is actually behind the rifts" since even the gods had no idea a planet was there.
• What happened with the original scribbles party and why they all fought with each other. Roy clearly wonders about this when he sees Gerard's message in the desert
• Roy's plan with his archon
• Hinjo needs to be saved by Belkar one more time

[Mad Humanist]

What am I missing? Anyone have some to add?

What happens to this guy https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1167.html?

[Metastachydium]

What's inside Xykon's Astral fortress and how it will be used.

I'm with Doug on this. Nothing (well, not nothing as such; it has a pretty pendant and a lot of useless traps that guard it, but you get the idea) and in no particular way.

The prize for winning the bet between Thor and Hel (this is kind of a minor one, but Hel hints at it in #1083).

Hey, I completely forgot about that half-sentence and now I need to know. Thanks for the reminder!

The dramatic return of TriGak.

…or, at least, his girlfriend. Let's not forget about the girlfriend.

Things I don't think belong:
Elan's secret plan works best if it is forever a secret and handled off page.

Yep.

If the escaped vampire (singular as far as I know) is never seen again, I will not feel that Rich somehow neglected to deal with this.

And yep again. Curly is only an asset insofar as Hel can leverage her existence into manipulating the outcome of the vote, which, frankly, she's rather unlikely to pull, to put it mildly.

The major cliffhanger in the desert. Snarl busting through the rift and what happened to Laurin.

That's not much of a cliffhanger. She lived; or she died. Whichever you like more. I see little reason to think that anything will come of it; that was just to demonstrate the Snarl is real and dangerous. If anything, I see it as tying up a loose end.

[Errorname]

Pretty sure Belkar has to save Hinjo's life a second time, which also means that either Sangwaan was being annoyingly technical or something needs to happen that brings Hinjo into play for the finale.

[KorvinStarmast]

Forgetting why Hinjo needs Belkar to save him a second time.

I agree that the secret plan is best handled off screen, with perhaps Amun Zora getting a partial panel as she gives the order for execution of Tarquin...guillotine strikes me as an apt tool.

[Ionathus]

• Identity of the Monster in the Darkness.
• Belkar's impending death.
• Elan's secret plan against his father (and by extension, the fate of Haley's father).
  
• The IFCC's plans for the gate (and by extension, how they will use their remaining two yoinks on V).
• The actual location of Kraagor's gate.
• What's inside Xykon's Astral fortress and how it will be used.
  
• The escaped Vampires in Dwarven lands.
• The prize for winning the bet between Thor and Hel (this is kind of a minor one, but Hel hints at it in #1083).
  

Crossed out are the ones I don't think will come up (or will only be mentioned in passing, if that)

Pretty sure Belkar has to save Hinjo's life a second time, which also means that either Sangwaan was being annoyingly technical or something needs to happen that brings Hinjo into play for the finale.

Seconding this theory: Pretty sure Rich said in the intro to Good Deeds Gone Unpunished that Hinjo still has some sort of part to play in the main story's conclusion. I do wonder if he'll get teleported there or if space-time will get wonky somehow to allow him to get involved.

[MartianInvader]

Thanks for the suggestions! I've added the ones everybody's brought up.

I also tried to split them into major, medium, and minor categories, depending on how plot-crucial they seem to be.

Oh no, it looks like I forgot to include the return of Trigak! And I don't have enough time to add it now. Sorry!

[Peelee]

Things I don't think belong:

I see no reason to think Xykon's Astral fortress has any further role in the story.

I'm with Doug on this. Nothing (well, not nothing as such; it has a pretty pendant and a lot of useless traps that guard it, but you get the idea) and in no particular way.

Adding my voice to this chorus. It's narrative useless other than to give Xykon a glade sense of security, which is already the case.

[Metastachydium]

a glade sense of security

(Is that an oddly beautiful mistyping of false; or the beginning of a beautiful friendship between myself and an expression of the English language I'ven never seen before?)

[SlashDash]

That's not much of a cliffhanger. She lived; or she died. Whichever you like more. I see little reason to think that anything will come of it; that was just to demonstrate the Snarl is real and dangerous. If anything, I see it as tying up a loose end.

Of course that's a cliffhanger. It was not just about showing the Snarl is real. We saw that something was happening to Laurin to the point that Miron had to drag her out of there. If it was about tying up loose ends, the author could have just killed them all.

Forgetting why Hinjo needs Belkar to save him a second time.

It was a bonus strip in the books

Spoiler: In the book

Show

Hinjo wonders why Shojo was so lenient with Belkar. Then we see Shojo talking to his fortune teller and he says something like "So you're saying he is going to save my nephew - Twice? Good enough for me" or something like that.

The first time he saved Hinjo is when he saved from the assassin during the battle. The second time needs to come into things. Plus it's pretty obvious that there should be some final deal between the Azurites and Gobtoppia so Hinjo is bound to show up again.

[Peelee]

(Is that an oddly beautiful mistyping of false; or the beginning of a beautiful friendship between myself and an expression of the English language I'ven never seen before?)

Yes.

[Metastachydium]

Of course that's a cliffhanger. It was not just about showing the Snarl is real. We saw that something was happening to Laurin to the point that Miron had to drag her out of there. If it was about tying up loose ends, the author could have just killed them all.

She gazed into the Snarl and the Snarl was gazing also. You try to scan a bundle of divine hatred with your mind. It hink you're reading too much into it.

[KorvinStarmast]

It was a bonus strip in the books

Spoiler: In the book

Show

Hinjo wonders why Shojo was so lenient with Belkar. Then we see Shojo talking to his fortune teller and he says something like "So you're saying he is going to save my nephew - Twice? Good enough for me" or something like that.

The first time he saved Hinjo is when he saved from the assassin during the battle. The second time needs to come into things. Plus it's pretty obvious that there should be some final deal between the Azurites and Gobtoppia so Hinjo is bound to show up again.

OK, that bit never stuck in my memory bank. Thanks.

[Rollin]

There's Haley's ultimate secret from strip 309. I don't even think we've had any hints about that one, but it's such a strange remark that I can't see it going completely unresolved.

Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call-

[Ruck]

There's Haley's ultimate secret from strip 309. I don't even think we've had any hints about that one, but it's such a strange remark that I can't see it going completely unresolved.

I can. People have speculated on this one for a while (I think it's where the "Haley is half-celestial" theories came from), and I'm not sure if the Giant ever confirmed what it was, but I think he confirmed it was a pretty minor thing, or maybe that he wasn't even sure what it was.

As far as the others mentioned: I think we will get resolutions on...

The MitD's identity
Belkar saving Hinjo's life a second time
Belkar dying
The IFCC's plans for this stage of the game, whether that's with V, or Sabine and the "vessel," etc.
What the deal with the planet in the rift is

And not as major, but probably

What really happened between the Order of the Scribble
Roy's plan for Roy's Archon (I'd nearly forgotten about that one)

As far as the rest... we might figure out what happened to Laurin, and we might hear the results of Elan's plan for Tarquin. I don't think we'll necessarily learn what the plan is.

I don't think we'll see much more of the last vampire in Dwarven lands, either-- I think it's too outnumbered and the Dwarves are aware of its presence now, so it's going to be hard for it to succeed at anything. I don't think anything will come of Xykon's fortress; it's exactly as Peelee said*, a false sense of security for him.

(* - assuming he actually meant to write "false.")

I can't think of anything else at this time that might be necessary to resolve.

[brian 333]

What happens to this guy https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1167.html?

Not-Thad has already had a pivotal roll in the comic, but it would not offend me to see his predicament get wound up.

Forgetting why Hinjo needs Belkar to save him a second time.

I agree that the secret plan is best handled off screen, with perhaps Amun Zora getting a partial panel as she gives the order for execution of Tarquin...guillotine strikes me as an apt tool.

Count me in for the off-panel resolution. This will be a story arc in the official campaign. Elan's Secret Plan™ will play out a thousand ways at a thousand game tables.

Adding my voice to this chorus. It's narrative useless other than to give Xykon a glade sense of security, which is already the case.

If, at Azure City, someone had suggested the party would go to Firmament, the suggestion would have met similar resistance. There would have been no narrative point to it. But things happened, and then it became a narrative necessity.

I'm not sure why Thor told Durkon the Astral Fortress existed if Durkon would never need to know. Thor might as well have told Durkon that Redcloak had a niece. We the audience knew that. It adds nothing to the story if it is something the characters never need to know.

[Ruck]

If, at Azure City, someone had suggested the party would go to Firmament, the suggestion would have met similar resistance. There would have been no narrative point to it. But things happened, and then it became a narrative necessity.

I'm not sure why Thor told Durkon the Astral Fortress existed if Durkon would never need to know. Thor might as well have told Durkon that Redcloak had a niece. We the audience knew that. It adds nothing to the story if it is something the characters never need to know.

Xykon built the Astral Fortress to hide his phylactery, to keep it safe and so he can regenerate in safety if his body is destroyed.

But he does not have the real phylactery there. Redcloak has the real phylactery.

Therefore, why would anyone go there?

[Peelee]

If, at Azure City, someone had suggested the party would go to Firmament, the suggestion would have met similar resistance.

Doubtful. The story was still quite early there. We're in end-stage comic currently. Adding a completely unnecessary dungeon that the Order by and large doesn't know exists, and even for Durkon doesn't know why it exists or where it is, seems like a massive stretch to make narratively relevant, doubly so in the limited time remaining.

[brian 333]

Exactly how much time remains? I'm guessing we could squeeze in another DCF length of story just to resolve the outstanding plots. Having the end here and now, in the two days remaining before TE finds The Final Dungeon™ leaves a boatload of unresolved issues. Roy will get no rest...

[Peelee]

Exactly how much time remains?

Less than one book.

Anyway, "people would have complained about something vaguely similar earlier" is entirely unsupported regardless.

[Provengreil]

I don't think we'll see much more of the last vampire in Dwarven lands, either-- I think it's too outnumbered and the Dwarves are aware of its presence now, so it's going to be hard for it to succeed at anything. I don't think anything will come of Xykon's fortress; it's exactly as Peelee said*, a false sense of security for him.

That one was also kind of weak IIRC, and didn't even have a coffin. No chance.


On the OP, I don't really consider that physical location of Kraagor's gate to be a major unresolved thread. We saw a few strips before Calder that the gate is breaking down: the Threads of Creation are showing. Not only is it in the Final Dungeon, it's probably somewhere almost directly above the bridge in front of Calder.

Also, I'm not seeing anyone talking about the resolution to the goblins needs and species inequality. That's a massive subplot to Redcloak's entire character motivation, and beyond him the Dark One.

[hroþila]

I still think Curly was only left behind to provide a reason why all those mid-level dwarves weren't joining the Order. She doesn't pose an actual threat and she has no desire to get involved in any dangerous business, so I don't think the story will ever return to her

[Yendor]

Anyway, "people would have complained about something vaguely similar earlier" is entirely unsupported regardless.

Given the prophecy, I think the suggestion that the party would not go to Durkon's home eventually would be more likely to be resisted.

[Sir_Norbert]

The Oracle did say "posthumously", and at the time we didn't know about the whole vampire thing, so it was at least a plausible guess that Durkon ('s body) would only return home after his final death, which would be after the end of the comic.

There were a couple of earlier threads like this. I'll see if I can dig up a link in case there was anything on them that we've missed (although of course, some issues from the old threads are resolved now).

EDIT: here and here

[Yendor]

Not that one, the one from Odin in the prequel about bringing death and destruction when he returns home. No way the story wouldn't follow up on that.

[brian 333]

Less than one book.

Anyway, "people would have complained about something vaguely similar earlier" is entirely unsupported regardless.

Since 'people complaining' was not my point, let me try again:

We readers knew of no narrative purpose to the idea that the OotS would travel to Firmament as of the time of the events in Azure City. The exact same arguments made for dismissing the idea of a journey to Xykon's Astral Fortress at this time would apply to a proposed trip to Firmament then: no reason to go, nothing they need there, the idea has already served its purpose, it would waste time.

After some things happened in the story, we discovered reasons for the OotS to go there, and I, for one, found the trip quite enjoyable. If The Giant takes us to the Astral Fortress, I expect there will be a good reason to do so. I expect the party to discover something they badly need there, I expect it will be crucial to the development of the story, and I expect to thoroughly enjoy the ride.

It also may be that we do not go there. That's fine too. But I do not think that Thor accidentally informed Durkon about Xykon's fortress. Just like Durkon's prophecy and Miko's errand set the stage for a homecoming, I think Thor foreshadowed a major plot point that we do not yet understand.

Just for fun, a reason to go there: Xykon might have left the crystal containing the only two people who know how to seal a rift in the tower.

Given the prophecy, I think the suggestion that the party would not go to Durkon's home eventually would be more likely to be resisted.

I might have picked a better analogy, but I did not think anyone would latch on to a trivial descriptive element as if it was actually a point I was trying to make. What people argue about on this forum is not relevant to my point.

Besides, if I wanted to base my point on what people would argue about, I'd say that Redcloak's niece went there with Trigak's Ghost following the directions given by Red Guy and Green Guy to help the ghost of Solt Lorkyug enact a diabolical revenge against The Order to reclaim his stolen candy bar.

[Ruck]

Just for fun, a reason to go there: Xykon might have left the crystal containing the only two people who know how to seal a rift in the tower.

While I tend to lean toward the "There's not enough time to introduce an entire new location like this, especially as anti-climactic as it would be if the Order defeats Xykon before going there" line of thinking, and while acknowledging that even this explanation has a few logical questions that would need resolving, this is probably the best (most plausible, most logical within the confines of the story) potential reason I've heard yet why the story might go there.

[Mad Humanist]

Not-Thad has already had a pivotal roll in the comic, but it would not offend me to see his predicament get wound up.

He literally cannot be left in that predicament. I suspect we might just get a panel and a joke out of it though.