Hazbin Hotel Season 1

[taleteller50]

Anyone looking forward to Hazbin Hotel coming out Jan 19? Nice to see a independent and her friends get something on mainstream (relatively speaking).

[BloodSquirrel]

I loved the pilot, but it came out a while ago and it'll be interesting to see if they can keep that same energy level up with the proper show. I've heard they're also changing character designs and recasting some voice actors.

[Errorname]

Honestly, I respect the show and what it represents in terms of indie animation a lot more than I actually like it, the style and characters aren't really to my tastes. But I hope it's success.

[taleteller50]

It's kinda nice how so many original artists are being given a chance to shine now-a-days I just hope most of them don't sign over their creations to large companies who are only interested in milking their ideas for money rather then actually care about the creation.

That and not get too full of their own success to blow what they have. I don't think Vissy is one of those types but I've lived long enough to see a few.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Anyone looking forward to Hazbin Hotel coming out Jan 19? Nice to see a independent and her friends get something on mainstream (relatively speaking).

I'm looking forward to it! I liked the first season of Helluva Boss quite a bit and the second has been a bit hit or miss, but is Hazbin Hotel that I've honestly been a lot more interested in. So even with changed voices and designs, I'll be checking it out when it drops.

[awa]

first episode is available on you tube, its pretty good.
I wont link, the language might be to spicy for this site.

[Rynjin]

Honestly, I respect the show and what it represents in terms of indie animation a lot more than I actually like it, the style and characters aren't really to my tastes. But I hope it's success.

I dunno, the deisgn and characters must be really something if people are out here going bankrupt commissioning fanart lol.

[HolyDraconus]

Wait, this actually went through??? I been having too much fun watching Helluva Boss. When the season ended I just moved on. I guess I need to circle back.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yup, just released too!

My thoughts on it are pretty positive. Its got some flaws but its still good entertainment. The big downsides to me would be the humor isn't as snappy as it was in the pilot (being more traditional humor style) and the animation/style doesn't have as MUCH character as they did before or that Helluva Boss has. Still plenty of personality in the characters and backgrounds, just more like you can feel a corporate presence dictating a coherent and concrete time schedule that must be followed rather than a pure labor of love.

Songs are catchy and good, characters are still charming, they get a bit into the character melodrama the creator is known for now, and the world building is decent. Honestly, the fct its only a four episode season is a bit surprising because the expected narrative structure you'd expect is...hmm...this feels like a half season, let me put it that way, not a full one.

[BloodSquirrel]

Yup, just released too!

My thoughts on it are pretty positive. Its got some flaws but its still good entertainment. The big downsides to me would be the humor isn't as snappy as it was in the pilot (being more traditional humor style) and the animation/style doesn't have as MUCH character as they did before or that Helluva Boss has. Still plenty of personality in the characters and backgrounds, just more like you can feel a corporate presence dictating a coherent and concrete time schedule that must be followed rather than a pure labor of love.

Songs are catchy and good, characters are still charming, they get a bit into the character melodrama the creator is known for now, and the world building is decent. Honestly, the fct its only a four episode season is a bit surprising because the expected narrative structure you'd expect is...hmm...this feels like a half season, let me put it that way, not a full one.

Yeah... it actually feels less polished than the pilot. There's less energy, it feels less sharp, and the set-up is clunkier.

The pilot laid out the premise and introduced the characters very well. This episode tries to explain what the pilot showed with a lot of "as you know" exposition, then added in a whole lot of metaplot that wrecks the pacing and doesn't give the characters enough time to just bounce off of her.

I hope this is just a rough patch they get over and they find their stride again for the rest of the season.

[Emmerlaus]

Im not sure why people have being overly critical about the serie. It's awesome!

And... hot takes: it's in the same level as Gravity Falls for me.

A pilot episode is just that: a pilot. I am sure Vii had a lot of concession to do to please Prime to give it a chance. It's true that it feels a bit fast but from what the socil medias says, they aren't sure they are going to get a second season and yes, it shows. I am sure both the pressure from Prime and from this has affected the pacing but overral, the characters are awesome, the humor is good, the animation is awesome, characterization is complex and endearing... AND THE SONGS!

I never was into shows that had lots of songs normally, they felt like fillers most of the time. Also, the sub voices in my birth language are good, which is surprising. The show has a lot of redeeming qualities. Sure it's not perfect but hey, nothing is perfect.

Overall, this is a very good piece of art. It deserves the hype it got and it needs more to get a second season. I believe if Prime is proven that Hazbin Hotel gives them A LOT of money, they will not pull the leash that much over Vii and her team and trust her a bit more.

[ecarden]

So, I watched the prologue and bounced off pretty hard as at this point after Supernatural and Constantine I'm pretty bored by 'god/angels are just as bad as (or maybe worse than) satan/demons' which seems to be fairly clearly what they're setting up. Anyone more familiar with the universe know if we're talking unreliable narrator or not?

[Emmerlaus]

So, I watched the prologue and bounced off pretty hard as at this point after Supernatural and Constantine I'm pretty bored by 'god/angels are just as bad as (or maybe worse than) satan/demons' which seems to be fairly clearly what they're setting up. Anyone more familiar with the universe know if we're talking unreliable narrator or not?

Nah, they aren't all bad. The overpopulation problem of Hell still a problem. It's Adam and his boss that is the problem. The rest of Heavens are either ignorant or scared to go against the status quo. I think the highest leadership are scared to let in a wolf in sheep clothing and losing the security that they have.

Im not sure about what you mean about unreliable narrator though.

PS: It's a bit difficult to discuss the real life metaphors of the show without getting political or discussing religion matters. So I suggest you find someone who is willing to discuss it with you but NOT on the GITP forums if you want a detailed analysis. Maybe look up a video review online?

[t209]

I learned it from Sarcastic Chorus and...
part of me feel that entire season might be compressed

Spoiler: Season spoiler

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Like maybe Season 1 being Charlie establishing Happy Hotel with second secon or later part being conflict with heaven.

[BloodSquirrel]

So, I watched the prologue and bounced off pretty hard as at this point after Supernatural and Constantine I'm pretty bored by 'god/angels are just as bad as (or maybe worse than) satan/demons' which seems to be fairly clearly what they're setting up. Anyone more familiar with the universe know if we're talking unreliable narrator or not?

I agree. Preacher did it as well. It's honestly just trite at this point. It's not like they're referencing any real-world ideas about religion or Christian mythology and trying to make a point about them, nor is it like they're using heaven as a metaphor for any real world authority. It's just a made-up bad guy with the name "heaven" slapped on it.

PS: It's a bit difficult to discuss the real life metaphors of the show without getting political or discussing religion matters. So I suggest you find someone who is willing to discuss it with you but NOT on the GITP forums if you want a detailed analysis. Maybe look up a video review online?

Are there any? Like I said, if there's any real allegory here, it eludes me. I'll reserve my judgment until more episodes are out, but the "heaven is evil" idea feels like a third-hand "subversion" that has long depleted its subversive value.

[Callos_DeTerran]

So, I watched the prologue and bounced off pretty hard as at this point after Supernatural and Constantine I'm pretty bored by 'god/angels are just as bad as (or maybe worse than) satan/demons' which seems to be fairly clearly what they're setting up. Anyone more familiar with the universe know if we're talking unreliable narrator or not?

There is undoubtedly a bit of unreliable narrator going on, but its more apt to say that angels are very strict about the rules. An example being in the side series, a group of cherubs are trying to redeem an old awful person's soul while a group of imps are trying to make him commit to being a bastard so he goes to hell instead when they kill him. It eventually results in a fight after the imps egg the cherubs on enough and, in the process, the man they're fighting over ends up dead through both parties actions. When the cherubs go to return to heaven, they're barred from entry because regardless of if it was an accident or if they were only half of the cause, they had 'killed' their client. This meant they got got cast out of heaven when it wasn't strictly their fault cause of the rules.

[QUOTE=BloodSquirrel;25954178]I agree. Preacher did it as well. It's honestly just trite at this point. It's not like they're referencing any real-world ideas about religion or Christian mythology and trying to make a point about them, nor is it like they're using heaven as a metaphor for any real world authority. It's just a made-up bad guy with the name "heaven" slapped on it.

Are there any? Like I said, if there's any real allegory here, it eludes me. I'll reserve my judgment until more episodes are out, but the "heaven is evil" idea feels like a third-hand "subversion" that has long depleted its subversive value.

So all the episodes aren't out yet, so this can change,

Spoiler: Heaven Spoilers

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but 'heaven is evil' isn't quite an accurate statement. Main crux of the show is hell is over-populated (cause people are awful) so once a year angels come down to do a purge to keep the numbers down. Charlie wants to solve the problem by redeeming the sinners instead but everyone around her thinks this is impossible and/or dumb. When she talks to the leader of the exterminators, its a shock cause he's a crass dude-bro who absolutely seems like he should be in hell cause he enjoys killing the sinners and is making the exterminations more frequent (Seemingly out of spite, but in truth its because one of them was killed and he wants to make a point that such a thing should never happen). He also talks about hell being forever and that the rules are black and white on the matter.

When Charlie gets a meeting with people higher up in heaven, there's a few details revealed that change up the dynamic a bit. The first being most angels (and presumably good souls) have no idea the exterminations are happening in the first place. Its really just the leader of the exorcists, Adam, the other exorcists, and what seems like one of the top angels. Its also revealed that the top angel in question suspects that hell is building an army of sinners to overthrow heaven which...may not be untrue to be frank. Which is the real reason the exterminations are happening. Another big reveal is that when pressed on why Adam is even in Heaven he can't properly express what got him into Heaven. He doesn't know what actually gets you into Heaven or Hell. When he comes up with three qualities that he thinks got him into Heaven, they observe one of Charlie's hotel guests show those same qualities (once) and Charlie says he should be allowed to ascend into Heaven but she is denied. Not just cause they aren't sure it wasn't just a one-off display of virtue...but because the sinner in question isn't in the book St. Peter reads. And if he's not in the book, he doesn't belong in Heaven. Why? The angels genuinely aren't able to answer that question. They don't know what qualities gets someone into the book in the first place and thus redemption is impossible, because the angels themselves would have to judge whither someone has changed to the point they can get into heaven which the angels can't do because they don't actually know the criteria.

In short, there's less of a 'heaven is evil' vibe and more of a 'heaven operates under a set of rules that the angels themselves don't seem to understand but still zealously follow to the letter' (aka Lawful Stupid). It has a bit of fun 'who made these rules then and what do they feel about the situation' mystery that I don't know if an answer is forthcoming because God doesn't seem to exist but Adam sings about having divine ordainment which is why they aren't evil when they kill sinners. So I suspect the plot is going in the direction of Charlie (and one of the angels) figuring out why the rules are the way they are an then fixing them...somehow to allow for shades of grey or redemption in Hell. Cause despite Adam being a rude mass murderer (which is his job) and his boss who has some knight templar shades to her, angels as a whole are portrayed in a positive light..simply inflexible.

As for real life metaphors, I honestly don't think there are any on a political or religious level, not yet anyway. Its a good watch so far carried by its music and charming cast, but the overarching plot is a bit shaky at the moment with only two episodes left in the season.

[Infernally Clay]

So, I watched the prologue and bounced off pretty hard as at this point after Supernatural and Constantine I'm pretty bored by 'god/angels are just as bad as (or maybe worse than) satan/demons' which seems to be fairly clearly what they're setting up. Anyone more familiar with the universe know if we're talking unreliable narrator or not?

There are implications that there's more to it than that.

The core premise of the show is that there are too many souls in Hell and the protagonist is trying to prove to Heaven that even sinners can be rehabilitated and that they should be able to go to Heaven if they are.

So perhaps and I'm just theorising here but, back when there wasn't a Hell, perhaps it was Heaven that was overpopulated and they created Hell and closed Heaven off from it and started making it harder to get into Heaven as a way to get around that problem but now it's Hell that's overpopulated because it's too hard to get into Heaven.

Then it's not so much a case of devils are bad and angels are good or vice versa but that old systems have old problems and it takes someone new to change them.

Funnily enough Hell in the Lucifer TV show wasn't entirely different. In that, Hell wasn't meant to be form of punishment let alone an eternal one but a way to work through your guilt and forgive yourself after which time you'd be able to go to Heaven.

[Divayth Fyr]

Spoiler: Heaven Spoilers

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Its also revealed that the top angel in question suspects that hell is building an army of sinners to overthrow heaven which...may not be untrue to be frank.

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How could it be true if until the last extermination just about all of Heaven and Hell was under the impression you can't kill angels? Open rebellion against someone you literally see as indestructible is a concept few would want to run with. Also, aren't all the cases of a portal between the two realms opening initiated from the heavenly side? Don't think we see a case of a demon making one, which would be kinda neccessary for anything to happen to Heaven.

I kinda expect the exterminations to be Adam's idea made to kill some time and satisfy his urges, maybe a part of the deal with Lilith was that she backed up his story?

[Infernally Clay]

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How could it be true if until the last extermination just about all of Heaven and Hell was under the impression you can't kill angels? Open rebellion against someone you literally see as indestructible is a concept few would want to run with. Also, aren't all the cases of a portal between the two realms opening initiated from the heavenly side? Don't think we see a case of a demon making one, which would be kinda neccessary for anything to happen to Heaven.

I kinda expect the exterminations to be Adam's idea made to kill some time and satisfy his urges, maybe a part of the deal with Lilith was that she backed up his story?

I think that it's a bit more complicated than that.

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Sera says that as much as Charlie wishes it were true that sinners could be redeemed and ascend to Heaven, there are things she doesn't know. Then in the final episode Sir Pentious becomes an angel and what is Sera's expression? Not of surprise, but of fear.

If I had to guess, I'd say it had something to do with the concept of evil itself. In the show, evil existed before the universe itself was created. The opening monologue of the show itself is even about how Lucifer and Lilith gave humanity free will and that allowed evil to find its way into the universe. So if the concept of evil itself is this primordial force that the Elder Angels have protected Heaven from since the dawn of creation, perhaps there's something there.

Now, it's important to remember that even Sera doesn't actually know what decides who gets into Heaven. It's probably something only the seven Elder Angels know, one of which is of course Lucifer (and it's kinda interesting there are seven Elder Angels and seven Deadly Sins but that's a totally different discussion), and I would go so far as to assume the purpose of keeping people out of Heaven is to stop evil from finding its way in.

Essentially, they're protecting themselves from evil by dooming the immortal souls of nearly all life in the universe and Adam was probably in charge of the Exterminations because he never acquired the gift of free will - only Eve and her descendants did - and that makes the whole thing very personal for him. He is Heaven's first Winner and the only formerly mortal soul that has anything to do with the Exterminations anyway. Lute and the other angels are all Heavenborn.

I'm not really sure how Lilith ended up in Heaven but I don't see her being a bad guy in the show. We have to remember that Charlie is herself over two hundred years old, so the fact Lilith has only been gone for the last seven years means there's more to the dynamic between Lilith, Charlie and Lucifer than we know. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Charlie to think Lucifer doesn't want anything to do with her if they only stopped speaking seven years ago, after all, so chances are Lucifer and Lilith split well over a hundred years ago and Charlie hadn't seen Lucifer since.

That would imply whatever changed has nothing to do with Lucifer, which is backed up by the fact that Lilith apparently still loves him. I know there are fan theories that Lilith is the one Alastor made a deal with seven years ago and that he may very well be forced to help Charlie as part of the terms of that deal, but who knows?

[Divayth Fyr]

I think that it's a bit more complicated than that.

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Sera says that as much as Charlie wishes it were true that sinners could be redeemed and ascend to Heaven, there are things she doesn't know. Then in the final episode Sir Pentious becomes an angel and what is Sera's expression? Not of surprise, but of fear.

If I had to guess, I'd say it had something to do with the concept of evil itself. In the show, evil existed before the universe itself was created. The opening monologue of the show itself is even about how Lucifer and Lilith gave humanity free will and that allowed evil to find its way into the universe. So if the concept of evil itself is this primordial force that the Elder Angels have protected Heaven from since the dawn of creation, perhaps there's something there.

Now, it's important to remember that even Sera doesn't actually know what decides who gets into Heaven. It's probably something only the seven Elder Angels know, one of which is of course Lucifer (and it's kinda interesting there are seven Elder Angels and seven Deadly Sins but that's a totally different discussion), and I would go so far as to assume the purpose of keeping people out of Heaven is to stop evil from finding its way in.

Essentially, they're protecting themselves from evil by dooming the immortal souls of nearly all life in the universe and Adam was probably in charge of the Exterminations because he never acquired the gift of free will - only Eve and her descendants did - and that makes the whole thing very personal for him. He is Heaven's first Winner and the only formerly mortal soul that has anything to do with the Exterminations anyway. Lute and the other angels are all Heavenborn.

I'm not really sure how Lilith ended up in Heaven but I don't see her being a bad guy in the show. We have to remember that Charlie is herself over two hundred years old, so the fact Lilith has only been gone for the last seven years means there's more to the dynamic between Lilith, Charlie and Lucifer than we know. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Charlie to think Lucifer doesn't want anything to do with her if they only stopped speaking seven years ago, after all, so chances are Lucifer and Lilith split well over a hundred years ago and Charlie hadn't seen Lucifer since.

That would imply whatever changed has nothing to do with Lucifer, which is backed up by the fact that Lilith apparently still loves him. I know there are fan theories that Lilith is the one Alastor made a deal with seven years ago and that he may very well be forced to help Charlie as part of the terms of that deal, but who knows?

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Honestly I'm not entirely sure if her expression was actual fear, shock or something else entirely. Sir Pentious popping up in Heaven basically shattered what she considered possible (ie sinners being redeemed and someone appearing in Heaven despite not being noted in the book earlier) and I imagine she could have a revelation to the tune of "oh no... if mortal souls can be redeemed, I sentenced thousands to oblivion wrongly". Or not, depending on the actual intent before that short moment was and what truly made her do what she did (I'd like to learn more in season 2, but whether we will? Who knows).

I have a feeling the split between Lucifer and Lilith happened when Charlie was still a kid - like the moment we see during the "More than anything" song, where a faceless woman takes Charlie away from him. Not saying it happened just like that, but I feel the timeline would make sense. I'm not sure what her role will be in the end, but I imagine at least half the next season will have her causing issues one way or the other. Which doesn't have to make her a villain or anything - just appearing will turn Charlie's world upside down.

I do wonder what will happen with the Exorcists and Exterminations. Sera basically left the matter entirely to Adam, but now he is gone (though if Pentious could wind up in Heaven, it wouldn't be too surprising if he popped up in Hell - he certainly has the right attitude), a bunch of Angels got killed (and that will happen again, now that the information they can got out of the bag) and they now know sinners can be redeemed. I guess a rather predictable option would be for them to be stopped, with Lute disagreeing heavily. But we'll see...

[Infernally Clay]

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Honestly I'm not entirely sure if her expression was actual fear, shock or something else entirely. Sir Pentious popping up in Heaven basically shattered what she considered possible (ie sinners being redeemed and someone appearing in Heaven despite not being noted in the book earlier) and I imagine she could have a revelation to the tune of "oh no... if mortal souls can be redeemed, I sentenced thousands to oblivion wrongly". Or not, depending on the actual intent before that short moment was and what truly made her do what she did (I'd like to learn more in season 2, but whether we will? Who knows).

I have a feeling the split between Lucifer and Lilith happened when Charlie was still a kid - like the moment we see during the "More than anything" song, where a faceless woman takes Charlie away from him. Not saying it happened just like that, but I feel the timeline would make sense. I'm not sure what her role will be in the end, but I imagine at least half the next season will have her causing issues one way or the other. Which doesn't have to make her a villain or anything - just appearing will turn Charlie's world upside down.

I do wonder what will happen with the Exorcists and Exterminations. Sera basically left the matter entirely to Adam, but now he is gone (though if Pentious could wind up in Heaven, it wouldn't be too surprising if he popped up in Hell - he certainly has the right attitude), a bunch of Angels got killed (and that will happen again, now that the information they can got out of the bag) and they now know sinners can be redeemed. I guess a rather predictable option would be for them to be stopped, with Lute disagreeing heavily. But we'll see...

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I would give Sera the benefit out of the doubt if it weren’t for the crazy look on her face when she sang about doing what was “required”. She knew what she was doing and it didn’t bother her at all. She may have started off idealistic but I think she's straight up just a bad egg now. If evil is an insidious influence I think it might already have its claws in her.

The thing I’m most interested in seeing is Carmilla’s fear coming true. The whole reason she didn’t say she was the one who killed the angel was because she knew Hell would rise to war against Heaven. Yet now that Lucifer, Charlie and a bunch of sinners repelled the angels and killed many of them, including Adam, and their vulnerability to angelic weapons has been exposed? Yeah, Carmilla was right. Hell will go to war with Heaven and it may very well be the Vs who encourage them to, since they want to take advantage of the recent chaos.

I can’t imagine how bad that will make Charlie feel. She doesn’t want to hurt anyone, she wants to work with Heaven to save sinners, but her very act of defiance against Heaven will have some pretty severe consequences and Lucifer may suffer the worst of them. There are six other Elder Angels besides Lucifer and I can't imagine they'll be too happy that Lucifer's daughter killed angels.

I s'pose that's how you'd take Lucifer off the board? As long as he's there the good guys are pretty much safe because of how powerful he is and how supportive he is of Charlie's goals. The Elder Angels descending upon Hell to imprison Lucifer for what he has allowed to happen would change things massively.

[Divayth Fyr]

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I would give Sera the benefit out of the doubt if it weren’t for the crazy look on her face when she sang about doing what was “required”. She knew what she was doing and it didn’t bother her at all. She may have started off idealistic but I think she's straight up just a bad egg now. If evil is an insidious influence I think it might already have its claws in her.

The thing I’m most interested in seeing is Carmilla’s fear coming true. The whole reason she didn’t say she was the one who killed the angel was because she knew Hell would rise to war against Heaven. Yet now that Lucifer, Charlie and a bunch of sinners repelled the angels and killed many of them, including Adam, and their vulnerability to angelic weapons has been exposed? Yeah, Carmilla was right. Hell will go to war with Heaven and it may very well be the Vs who encourage them to, since they want to take advantage of the recent chaos.

I can’t imagine how bad that will make Charlie feel. She doesn’t want to hurt anyone, she wants to work with Heaven to save sinners, but her very act of defiance against Heaven will have some pretty severe consequences and Lucifer may suffer the worst of them. There are six other Elder Angels besides Lucifer and I can't imagine they'll be too happy that Lucifer's daughter killed angels.

I s'pose that's how you'd take Lucifer off the board? As long as he's there the good guys are pretty much safe because of how powerful he is and how supportive he is of Charlie's goals. The Elder Angels descending upon Hell to imprison Lucifer for what he has allowed to happen would change things massively.

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I mean Sera may have crossed the line, but if evil had taken hold in Heaven, Adam and his crew would be even better evidence - they love their yearly slaughters so much they could be placed in Hell and aside from the looks they wouldn't stand out much. Sera is very much in the "do whatever, ends justify the means" territory, but I feel like she could go either way. Lute is firmly on the path she went all the time.

I'm sure that with the news spreading out some will want to fight Heaven, be it for power, amusement, revenge or whatever else. We're still left with the matter of getting the demonic armies to Heaven. I really haven't followed anything outside the show to know how/if that would be possible. And speaking of Carmilla, her sequence with Vaggie kinda feels like it came from an earlier draft or something - what Vaggie did to that point felt like it came from her desire to support/protect Charlie, not vengeance (as the song implies). Also, she had her eye poked out and wings ripped off, but didn't know an angel could be hurt? Kinda silly ;)

The Elder Angels descending into Hell to deal with Lucifer is kinda the nuclear option. It could happen, certainly, but I kinda wonder if they don't plan it so that Lilith's return puts him out of action. Not due to being incapacitated or anything, but rather being unable to decide which of the two women he loves side with (as while Lilith may not be fully antagonistic, she probably would at least try to talk Charlie out of the redemption thing to secure her deal with Heaven.

Seems not many people here watched/care about the show. Kinda a pity.

[Saph]

Seems not many people here watched/care about the show. Kinda a pity.

I watched the pilot a while ago and remember quite liking it, but as soon as I saw comments on social media sites about the show's big "subversion" being "the angels are villains too!", that killed all my interest in the show.

[Infernally Clay]

I watched the pilot a while ago and remember quite liking it, but as soon as I saw comments on social media sites about the show's big "subversion" being "the angels are villains too!", that killed all my interest in the show.

Well that’s not really what happens. It’s not as black and white as that. Some angels are evil, sure, but most of them aren’t. The opposite is true for the residents of Hell as well. Some Sinners are good, but most of them aren’t, which makes sense given the premise of the show. In fact one of the strengths of the show is that Sinners can range from someone like Alastor to someone like Carmilla. One is manipulative, cruel and unrepentantly evil and is destined to become a major antagonistic force as the show goes on, the other has a surprisingly humanising narrative arc that boils down to a mother going to any lengths to protect her children and believing that love is more powerful than hate. Not exactly the sort of thing you’d expect a Sinner to say, right?

Not that having evil angels would itself be much of a subversion, mind. The show is set in Hell, after all, and is about Lucifer’s daughter trying to find the good in souls gone bad so they can be redeemed and ascend to Heaven. It stands to reason that the real villain is the system that determines who gets to go to Heaven and who is resigned to Hell and the antagonists would inevitably be the angels protecting and facilitating that system.

[Trixie_One]

I watched the pilot a while ago and remember quite liking it, but as soon as I saw comments on social media sites about the show's big "subversion" being "the angels are villains too!", that killed all my interest in the show.

I'd give it a go anyway if only to listen to the music as dang are some of the tracks legit great.

There's been plenty of overly hostile to the point of being insufferable attempted takedowns of Christianity like Dogma or Preacher. Basically they can maybe work the one time if it's the first time you've been exposed to ideas challenging the well dogma, but can often end up being smug 'anyone who thinks differently to me is a big dumb-dumb who is obviously lesser to my obviously correct worldview' works. That's the kind of thing, that even if you share that worldview, can come across as unpleasant as they tend to rely on strawmans and the most basic and/or immature of takes.

I didn't get a whiff of that kind of thing off Hazbin Hotel. Sure I think the writing is all over the place, and they have tendency to jump over character setup to get to the resolutions as soon as possible, and yet I do think the show is still pretty good with a heart that's (mostly) in the right place. There's one really unfortunate joke which struck me as a pretty yikes examples of 'huh, you sure you want to do that after how seriously you took this previously?". Thankfully though that's an exception rather than the rule.

[Saph]

Not that having evil angels would itself be much of a subversion, mind. The show is set in Hell, after all, and is about Lucifer’s daughter trying to find the good in souls gone bad so they can be redeemed and ascend to Heaven. It stands to reason that the real villain is the system that determines who gets to go to Heaven and who is resigned to Hell and the antagonists would inevitably be the angels protecting and facilitating that system.

Unfortunately that actually makes me even less inclined to watch it, so I think I'll give this one a pass.

[smuchmuch]

I learned it from Sarcastic Chorus and...
part of me feel that entire season might be compressed

Spoiler: Season spoiler

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Like maybe Season 1 being Charlie establishing Happy Hotel with second secon or later part being conflict with heaven.

It's ot jsut sarcastic chorus, this is defintively one fo the ost leviec criticism (outside of the controversies that is) that is levied at the show. It set some very good ideas and very interesting conflicts, character arcs or points. It also resolve them in very memorable ways, through very catchy showtunes. ... Excpet y(know it's hard to find the resolution very great because there was little to no devellopement in between, and often some charactr traits come as more told than shown.

Dont get me wrong, I sort of get why that is. They had only 8 episodes and for most of theseason didn't even know if they'd get another (and given how streaming services have been treating animated shows lately..) so they wanted to make what they had has memorable and charged as possible. It also probaly doesn't help that it's a musical show with big biradway voice talent on board so youc na expect each episode is *costly* to make and that leave little room for breather episodes. But there's no doubt the sho sadly suffers, witing wise from this. What we have is genraly good but it could have been so much more. This is probaly the first only show of which I've ever seen said: It would have been better with more filler. I lso sort of get in the way of the messages it even want to say or the mood it is trying to establish sometime. Also like most adult commedy it sometime struggles on when to treat controvrsial subject between dark humour and complelty serious, which can create some mood wiplash.

I'd say it's stil a very good show, the animation is amzing the song are bangers, even the character banter is very funny and the comedy, while less snappy than the pilot is till pretty on point, but also a pretty flawed show.

[Infernally Clay]

Oh there's no denying the show could have done with a couple more episodes, but I think on the other hand they have a pretty good idea of where the show is going and they seem to be confident they'll have the space to tell that story. So while the first season could have used some more breathing room I'm sure future seasons won't have that problem.

Even before the show came out there were references to and art of what I guess you'd call the Big Bad, even though we won't see them for many years, and Vivziepop has been in interviews since the show's release talking about reveals and mysteries that won't be fully explored for several seasons.

[Tyndmyr]

Honestly, I respect the show and what it represents in terms of indie animation a lot more than I actually like it, the style and characters aren't really to my tastes. But I hope it's success.

Kinda how I feel. Watched one episode, turned it off.

It's good work for someone independent making stuff for youtube, and I appreciate the work that went into it. Good for indies and stuff.

But my god am I tired of yet another story about goodish-motivated, if naughty, characters in/from hell, where the angels are jerks. Preacher did it better. Good Omens did it better. The Good Place did it better.

I also can't think of a lot of animated musical TV shows that I like. It's kind of a weird combo. I don't hate the music, but between the music and the very, very tired main plot, there isn't much time for anything else, so....I don't care enough to watch any more.

[Lemmy]

Sadly, I had to drop this one...

The art style, animation and voice acting are really freaking good! Top notch!

But the writing is pretty bad... The tired plot. The absurd levels of exposition over and over again. The inconsistent atmosphere and characterization... It feels like the quality of the writing took a nose-dive between the pilot and the actual series. It's like the writers couldn't even decide what the show's about... Or even the theme of a single episode.

Well... I hope more indie animators get a chance like this, but after 3 episodes, I was already rolling my eyes and no amount of pretty visuals and nice voice acting could make me care enough to keep going.