3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource

[Anthrowhale]

W.r.t. protections, the Font of Life feat grants a bonus extra save for a character to resist energy drain or a negative level.

[ShurikVch]

Race:
Shadar-Kai (Fiend Folio) - Shadow Curse:

A shadar-kai with a damaged soul gains one negative level that cannot be removed until she restores her soul completely. If exposed to another event that requires a save against the shadow curse, a shadar-kai may gain additional negative levels.

Template:
Monstrous Vampire (Ghostwalk)

Monster:
Vampire Dire Wolf

Also, the "Creatures That Cannot Be" article series gave us "Vampiric Plants" and "The Demon Vampire" (also, Ooze Vampire was mentioned)

From the 3rd-party Ravenloft, I managed to find so far (besides the various Vampires):
Cloaker, Undead (Denizens of Dread)
Figurine, Porcelain (Denizens of Dread) - Enervation Ray
Golem, Dread (Ravenloft Campaign Setting) - "Salient Powers" rules: among those powers is Energy Drain
Spectral Hag (Denizens of Dread) - not just their Chilling Touch bestows negative levels, but those who die from it would become a Spectre, and all Spectral Hags have Summon Spectre SA

Energy Drain feat (Champions of Darkness) - by spending Rebuke/Command attempt, you can try to inflict Cha mod negative levels as melee touch attack (Fort save DC 10 + divine CL)

[NotInventedHere]

Enervating (MIC): Weapon Quality. +2 bonus and anytime you score a critical hit you bestow a negative level on the target, which disappears after 1 hour. Stupid choice, get Soulbreaker from the same book for cheaper and better energy drain.

Soulbreaker (MIC): +1 weapon quality, functions as an Enervating weapon but keeps the negative level going for 24 hours and a chance for it to be made permanent. (Note that while it's not an official 3.5 update, the SRD claims this weapon quality is a +3. The MIC version might have been a misprint because I can see them wanting this to a "+1 to the Enervating +2 quality, thus a +3".) But as written, you could in theory take both Enervating and Soulbreaker for a +3 total and hit each opponent for 2 negative levels at a time.

Minor note, but you've missed how the Soulbreaker quality works, because it uses the MIC-only "Synergy" rules. The key is the line in the Soulbreaker description on page 44 saying "Synergy Prerequisite: Enervating". Per pages 224 and 225 of the MIC, a Synergy property not only requires another property on the item first, but also subsumes and replaces the prerequisite property. That's probably why the SRD lists it as a +3, because effectively it *is*; it's a +1 that must be applied on top of the Enervating quality's +2 and which causes the Enervating quality to have no effect of its own. So no double negative level effect from taking both Enervating and Soulbreaker, and no taking Soulbreaker on its own for the price of a +1 quality.

[ShurikVch]

One more monster (which I surprised to don't see in the list): Nabassu demon (Fiendish Codex I) - their Death-Stealing Gaze inflicts 1 negative level in case of Juvenile Nabassu (or 1d4 - for Mature Nabassu)

Heart of the Nabassu [Abyssal Heritor] feat:

Your ancestry traces back to a place where the Abyss meets the Negative Energy Plane.
Benefit: You can absorb harmlessly a number of negative levels per day equal to the number of Abyssal heritor feats you possess. For example, if you have two Abyssal heritor feats, you can gain up to two negative levels on a given day and not suffer any ill effects.
Special: Your barest tie to the Negative Energy Plane is offputting to animals. You take a –2 penalty on Handle Animal checks.

Also, FWIW, older Psionics Handbook (not "Expanded"!) has Soul Feeder weapon ability - it was +3 ability which inflicted 1 negative level on critical hit (technically, may stack with Consumptive Burst - but how cost-effective it would be?)

[Saintheart]

Minor note, but you've missed how the Soulbreaker quality works, because it uses the MIC-only "Synergy" rules. The key is the line in the Soulbreaker description on page 44 saying "Synergy Prerequisite: Enervating". Per pages 224 and 225 of the MIC, a Synergy property not only requires another property on the item first, but also subsumes and replaces the prerequisite property. That's probably why the SRD lists it as a +3, because effectively it *is*; it's a +1 that must be applied on top of the Enervating quality's +2 and which causes the Enervating quality to have no effect of its own. So no double negative level effect from taking both Enervating and Soulbreaker, and no taking Soulbreaker on its own for the price of a +1 quality.

Noted, and I'l go fix that. Thanks!

One more monster (which I surprised to don't see in the list): Nabassu demon (Fiendish Codex I) - their Death-Stealing Gaze inflicts 1 negative level in case of Juvenile Nabassu (or 1d4 - for Mature Nabassu)

Heart of the Nabassu [Abyssal Heritor] feat:


Also, FWIW, older Psionics Handbook (not "Expanded"!) has Soul Feeder weapon ability - it was +3 ability which inflicted 1 negative level on critical hit (technically, may stack with Consumptive Burst - but how cost-effective it would be?)

Thanks again :)

[Saintheart]

All right, so I've updated the guide to account for all this stuff, and out of interest I went and built a level drainer which is a bit more RAW legal than the martial one that's in the thread (which uses some feats that don't exist under 3.5 at all). Here's Jack B. Negative, a bit of a riff on Jack B. Quick who squeezes in Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick onto a standard AoO, Tripping build:

Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Martial Rogue 2/Fighter 10/Warblade 4.

Human, no flaws.
Wield 2 Aptitude, Enervating kukris made of Abyssal Bloodiron and with the Pitspawned template (DMG 2, it's like Feycraft).

Rough build outline:

1 HD (BAB 1) Ranger 1 - (HD feat - Combat Reflexes) (Human feat - Weapon Focus – Light Mace)
2 HD (BAB 2) Ranger 2 – (TWF)
3 HD (BAB 3) Lion Totem Barbarian 1 - (HD feat - Lightning Mace) (Pounce) (Whirling Frenzy)
4 HD (BAB 4) Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 – (Improved Trip)
5 HD (BAB 4) Martial Rogue 1 – (Deft Opportunist)
6 HD (BAB 5) Martial Rogue 2 - (HD feat – Weapon Focus (longsword)) (Weapon Focus (handaxe))
7 HD (BAB 6) Fighter 1 – (Improved TWF)
8 HD (BAB 7) Fighter 2 – (Double Hit)
9 HD (BAB 8) Fighter 3 - (HD feat – High Sword, Low Axe)
10 HD (BAB 9) Fighter 4 – (Improved Critical)
11 HD (BAB 10) Fighter 5
12 HD (BAB 11) Fighter 6 -- (HD feat - Murderous Intent) (Power Attack)
13 HD (BAB 12) Fighter 7
14 HD (BAB 13) Fighter 8 -- (Robilar’s Gambit)
15 HD (BAB 14) Fighter 9 -- (HD feat - Improved Unarmed Strike)
16 HD (BAB 15) Fighter 10 -- (Roundabout Kick)
17 HD (BAB 16) Warblade 1
18 HD (BAB 17) Warblade 2 (HD feat – Overwhelming Assault)
19 HD (BAB 18) Warblade 3
20 HD (BAB 19) Warblade 4

Take Blood in the Water as a Warblade, giving you a +1 to attack and damage with each critical hit, and random other maneuvers to add some gloss on the end of this. Your critical threat range is 15-20. Any critical threat results in another attack under Lightning Mace. Any critical hit results in another attack using Roundabout Kick. You have a default critical confirmation bonus of 6+INT: +4 from Abyssal Bloodiron, +2 from the Pitspawned Template, and +INT from the Warblade's class features. Against a favored enemy, you automatically confirm critical hits with Murderous Intent. Your Aptitude weapons allow you to apply the benefits of Roundabout Kick, Lightning Mace, and High Sword, Low Axe simultaneously (the only question being whether an unarmed strike is a weapon that an Aptitude weapon can act on. It seems a common assumption in builds that you can.) One critical threat on your many AoOs is enough to start this chain of additional attacks and negative levels off.

If you want a little more BAB, take 2 flaw feats and replace the levels in Martial Rogue with something else, probably 2 more Ranger levels, possibly trading out your Ranger spellcasting ability for Champion of the Wild ACF which gives you one more feat on top at Ranger 4. If I had to affect a crit-immune enemy, I'd make the kukris out of Kaorti Resin and take Supernatural Blow from 3.0, which is still valid and unupdated and allows some bonus dice on immunes.



EDIT: Indeed, a simpler build would be just a Jack B. Quick build wielding two Aptitude, Homeland Champion weapons. There you don't need to even generate critical hits and can repurpose both Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick: if the target is an enemy of the weapon's homeland, it does a negative level on a hit.

[ShurikVch]

How about the Knowledge Arcana magazine?
#2 has Gunthosh undead with Spittle of Darkness SA which caused negative levels
#9 - Death Salad undead (not to be confused with Death Slaad ) with Energy Drain

Couple more things from Ravenloft:

Chiang-shi (Denizens of Dread) - this vampire strain (like many other strains) have access to Energy Drain

Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead gives less a "static" templates and more of a "toolbox" to create new/uncommon/unique Undead; those of the Restless Dead variety have access to the Touch of Darkness salient power (and Energy Drain is one of possible effects for it)

[Saintheart]

How about the Knowledge Arcana magazine?
#2 has Gunthosh undead with Spittle of Darkness SA which caused negative levels
#9 - Death Salad undead (not to be confused with Death Slaad ) with Energy Drain

Couple more things from Ravenloft:

Chiang-shi (Denizens of Dread) - this vampire strain (like many other strains) have access to Energy Drain

Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead gives less a "static" templates and more of a "toolbox" to create new/uncommon/unique Undead; those of the Restless Dead variety have access to the Touch of Darkness salient power (and Energy Drain is one of possible effects for it)

Those are probably a bit far for my taste, but YMMV. Thanks again!

[Darelius]

Very interesting ;)
Now i klnow, how to suck the life out of my players *rofl*

[Saintheart]

Very interesting ;)
Now i klnow, how to suck the life out of my players *rofl*

Thanks!

It was always my ambition to make a thread that sucks.

[ShurikVch]

Dragon Annual #5 has some ray-specific metamagic
Note:
Ray Burst - ray replaced with 30' burst (centered on the caster); creatures which are farther than 10' (but, obviously, no farther than 30') allowed Reflex save; +3 metamagic
Ray Coning - ray replaced with 30' cone; creatures in the area allowed Reflex save; +2 metamagic

Spell-Lens (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) attached to a Wand, those lens apply Empower and Enlarge to the spell (at the cost of x3 charges); 13,500 gp

Also, one more spell which causes negative levels: Soul Charge

[Saintheart]

Dragon Annual #5 has some ray-specific metamagic
Note:
Ray Burst - ray replaced with 30' burst (centered on the caster); creatures which are farther than 10' (but, obviously, no farther than 30') allowed Reflex save; +3 metamagic
Ray Coning - ray replaced with 30' cone; creatures in the area allowed Reflex save; +2 metamagic

Spell-Lens (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) attached to a Wand, those lens apply Empower and Enlarge to the spell (at the cost of x3 charges); 13,500 gp

Also, one more spell which causes negative levels: Soul Charge

Thanks again Shurik! I've added most of that in now :)

[StreamOfTheSky]

The Sporebat from Fiend Folio is a flying monster that is actually a plant, not a bat. It gets an enervation ray once per round as a 12th level Sorcerer.
Mostly relevant b/c it is a Summon Nature's Ally VIII option and Druids don't get many good enervation options. In a lengthy battle, the ray each round could add up. And with Ring of the Beast, at least it only costs a 7th level slot.

[ShurikVch]

Also annoying is that the spell's 10 minutes to cast, so it's tricky to get tactical use out of it. Maybe an Artificer could abuse this with Sanctum Spell to make this useable with Enervate, but it's a very narrow application.

Imbue Arrow with DMM Reach+Coning (or Reach+Burst)?

[Saintheart]

The Sporebat from Fiend Folio is a flying monster that is actually a plant, not a bat. It gets an enervation ray once per round as a 12th level Sorcerer.
Mostly relevant b/c it is a Summon Nature's Ally VIII option and Druids don't get many good enervation options. In a lengthy battle, the ray each round could add up. And with Ring of the Beast, at least it only costs a 7th level slot.

Interesting and I'll definitely update to include that - thanks!

Imbue Arrow with DMM Reach+Coning (or Reach+Burst)?

Are we saying this ability overrides the normal casting time of a spell? If so that's a really interesting use for the Arcane Archer that I'd never considered before!

[Shalist]

Regarding Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, honorable mention to the paladin ACF warded special mount:

The lightbringer paladin is a special, favored warrior of light. The gods protect his special mount so that the powers of darkness cannot easily defeat him.

Level: 6th.

Replaces: One weekly use of remove disease.

Benefit: In addition to the standard qualities of a special mount, a lightbringer paladin's mount is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects (such as from inflict spells or chill touch).

[Anthrowhale]

There are two classes in dragon magazine #302 with special verbiage saying that level loss can apply to them first, even if they aren't the last levels taken. See here for discussion.

[ShurikVch]

Are we saying this ability overrides the normal casting time of a spell? If so that's a really interesting use for the Arcane Archer that I'd never considered before!

Yes.

RAW for Imbue Arrow was this way in both 3.0 and 3.5, and even Errata don't changed it

Thus, yes - Arcane Archer can cast as a standard action even Apocalypse from the Sky (Casting Time: 1 day)

(Arcane Archer is underpowered anyway - let's give them something nice)

[Saintheart]

Regarding Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, honorable mention to the paladin ACF warded special mount:

Thanks for that - I will include it, it's appreciated!

There are two classes in dragon magazine #302 with special verbiage saying that level loss can apply to them first, even if they aren't the last levels taken. See here for discussion.

Noted and it is intriguing, adding more depth to level loss shenanigans. I'll get a summary of that into the 'More fun with level loss' section. :)

Yes.

RAW for Imbue Arrow was this way in both 3.0 and 3.5, and even Errata don't changed it

Thus, yes - Arcane Archer can cast as a standard action even Apocalypse from the Sky (Casting Time: 1 day)

(Arcane Archer is underpowered anyway - let's give them something nice)

Very interesting. Immediate first RAW gouda that occurs: Be Cleric, take 1 level in Ranger. Cast Arrowsplit via a Ranger wand in a Wand Chamber on your bow, then Imbue Arrow with Soul Charge. Rely on Arrowsplit producing "identical" arrows all imbued with Soul Charge. Still needs a ranged attack roll, and draws a Fort save, but impose up to 1d4+1 negative levels, that's better than Enervation in a third level spell slot and it recharges your Arrowsplit wand since Arrowsplit is a "third level spell" ... Ranger 3, Assassin 3, Other Randoms 3. As you say, to get around the "area" requirements of the spell, Ray Coning or Burst would fix that, especially on DMM.



EDIT: So I did a bit more reading and drilling on this one, and a couple of random thoughts for the brains trust before I put it in as a combination:

(1) By RAW you could actually use Ocular Spell on Soul Charge. It's a Touch range spell that qualifies to become a ray, and Ocular Spells can be cast ahead of time. So then it becomes a standard metamagic combination best utilised by an Incantatrix: Soul Charge -> Ray under Ocular Spell -> Split Ray -> Twin Spell -> wights4u, similar to how Anthrowhale built it with Enervation, albeit it's not as devastating because Enervation gives you 1d4 negative levels and this only gives you 1 as the base. That said, you can do more of it per day since Soul Charge is a level 3 spell. And best bonus, Lesser Metamagic Rods work on it by RAW since Soul Charge is a level 3 spell.

(2) The Imbue Arrow trick works if we also assume that metamagic can be applied to an imbued spell. I think there's an argument for this because spells are prepared in given slots as determined by what metamagic is put on them. As said, the only hinky point is that Soul Charge isn't a spell with an area, and we need an area for it to click properly into Imbue Arrow's wording. So: Soul Charge -> Ocular Spell makes it a ray -> Ray Burst since it's now a ray -> Imbue Arrow since it's a now an area spell, and even if it has metamagic applied to it it's still "a spell" -> Wand of Arrowsplit -> shoot 1d4+1 arrows with Soul Charge on them which hit as burst effects, hitting everything in a 30' radius with 1d4+1 negative levels, and also recharging your wand of Arrowsplit.

(3) That said, there's a simpler cheese for negative levels via Arcane Archer: Necrotic Skull Bomb + Sorcerer/Wizard 9 + Ranger 1 + Wand of Arrowsplit + Arcane Archer 2. Cast Arrowsplit via the Wand on your arrow, drop Necrotic Skull Bomb into it with Imbue Arrow. In flight, the arrow becomes 1d4+1 arrows, and therefore hits every target in a 20' radius with between 2 and 20 negative levels, subject to Fort saves, since each arrow is carrying 1d4 negative levels on it.


EDIT THE SECOND: Also, testing this combination: Necropolitan Paladin + Sacrificial Smiting weapon = infinite Smite Evil uses, infinite healing.

The negative level imposed by a Sacrificial Smiting weapon is not said to be other than a negative energy effect. If that's correct, together with the fact that the undead type doesn't forbid a character accepting a negative level (which is what the Sacrificial Smiting weapon requires) this would suggest a Necropolitan Paladin gets infinite smites from his weapon and indeed is healed by them.

[St Fan]

In the category "protecting from negative levels", some spells or powers are missing.

First, an ACF:

Feign Death
A clever villain has many contingencies in place, so that if a plan goes awry, he can beat a hasty retreat. In exchange for some ability to evade damage, he can enter a state that is indistinguishable from death.

Class: Monk, ranger, or rogue.

Level: 2nd (monk or rogue) or 9th (ranger).

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain the evasion ability. If your class would grant you improved evasion at a higher level, you instead gain evasion.

Benefit: As an immediate action, you can enter a catatonic state in which you appear to be dead. While feigning death, you cannot see or feel anything, but you retain the ability to smell, hear, and otherwise follow what is going on around you.

While under the effect of this ability, you are immune to all mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, ability drain, negative levels, and death effects. Attempts to resuscitate you, such as raise dead or reincarnation, automatically fail, though resurrection and true resurrection immediately end your feign death ability.

Spells and other effects that assess your current condition, such as status and deathwatch, indicate that you are dead. However, a character who succeeds on a Heal check (DC 15 + 1/2 your level + your Con modifier) can discern that you are actually alive.

You can remain in the catatonic state indefinitely, though you still require food, water, and air. Emerging from feigned death is a standard action.

Then a few spells:

Feign Death (Necromancy)

Level: Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: One willing, living creature whose level or Hit Dice do not exceed the caster's
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You put the recipient into a deathlike condition.
At your option, this can be a cataleptic state that is impossible to distinguish from death, or the subject can appear to be in a coma or deep sleep.
Although able to smell, hear, and know what is going on, the subject is blind and has no sense of touch or pain.
The subject does not need to eat, drink, or breathe.
While the spell is in effect, the subject is immune to subdual damage, and any normal or ability damage inflicted is reduced by half.
In addition, the subject is immune to mind-affecting attacks, paralysis, poison, disease, and energy drain.
The effects of any poison or disease already affecting the subject when the spell takes effect are halted until the spell ends.
If the subject has any negative levels when the spell takes effect, the saving throw to remove it is delayed until the spell ends.

Life's Grace (Abjuration)

Level: Cleric 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You say a brief prayer and touch your holy symbol to a creature. Symbols of warding and safety appear and flow out to cover the creature in a web of protective magic before fading from sight, absorbed into the creature's form.

The living creature touched becomes immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. In addition, the subject is immune to undead special attacks that deal ability damage, ability drain, and magical disease (such as mummy rot), even if these attacks do not have a magical source. (For example, the spell prevents poison damage from the poisonous bite of an undead creature.) This spell does not prevent such attacks from undead originating from spells, magic items, or class abilities; only the special attacks from the undead's base nature are affected.

In addition, the subject's armor or clothing is considered ghost touch armor, and its armor bonus counts against incorporeal attacks. (A suit of clothing is considered armor that gives +0 AC for this purpose, though it can be enhanced with spells such as magic vestment.)

This spell doesn't remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level.

Undead Mask (Necromancy [Evil])

Level: Cleric 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You imbue the subject with powerful transformative magic, granting it some of the characteristics of the undead type.
The subject's flesh seems necrotic and rotting, much like that of a zombie.
Nonintelligent undead ignore the subject unless the subject attacks the undead.
Any spell or effect that affects undead also affects the subject.
The subject can be turned, destroyed, rebuked, or commanded as an undead of its Hit Dice (and gets no saving throw to resist the result).
Negative energy effects (such as inflict spells) heal the subject, while positive energy effects (such as cure spells) harm her.
An undead creature is immune to mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease.
It is immune to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
The subject loses its Constitution score while the spell is in effect, along with any bonus hit points from Constitution.
The subject is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect also works on objects.
An undead spellcaster uses its Charisma modifier when making Concentration checks.
The subject's other ability scores are unaffected.
The subject retains its skills and feats.
Material Component: A pinch of vampire dust.

Undying Aura (Transmutation)

Level: Cleric 5
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level or until discharged
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Undying aura wreathes the target creature in a golden shield of positive energy, granting it immunity to death effects, energy drain effects, and any negative energy effects (such as from chill touch or an inflict spell).

Any time during the spell's duration, the target can release the power of the aura by making a melee touch attack against an undead creature. On a successful attack, the aura pulses angrily as it tears apart the negative energy sustaining the creature, dealing 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) and dazing it for 1 round. A successful Will save halves the damage and negates the daze effect. Since the spell utilizes positive energy to deal damage, incorporeal creatures do not benefit from the normal miss chance for incorporeality. Using the touch attack ends the spell's duration.

A deathless creature (see page 275 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting) targeted by the touch attack power of this spell is instead healed of 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6). Some suggest that this indicates the spell was originally designed by the Aereni, and the name of the spell seems to support this claim.

Focus: A clear spar of crystal worth 500 gp.

[Saintheart]

^^^

All added in now - much appreciated, StFan!

[ShurikVch]

Stuff against negative levels:

Avoid Planar Effects spell (Spell Compendium) - against negative levels on Negative-dominant planes

Stygian Veil and Stygian Ward psionic powers (Complete Psionic)

Lasting Life feat (Libris Mortis) allows to remove a negative level with a Will save every round (and failed saves causing no extra complications - can just attempt one more time); Enduring Life feat - prerequisite for Lasting Life - allow to act like you don't get negative level for a number of rounds (equal to Con bonus, if any) and +4 on Fort saves to remove negative levels


For monsters:

Spells(/invocations/powers) could be done into Living Spells

Also, why Necromental is in the "Monsters" and not "Templates"? For example, Shrine of Orcus - in The Sinister Spire adventure - includes couple of Fevers (which are really just Medium Fire Elementals with Necromental template)

[Anthrowhale]

Iron Heart Surge also removes negative levels since energy drained is a condition which does not prevent actions.

[St Fan]

A side note about negative levels: it is one of the effects (alongside mind-affecting and personal spells) that will affect both twins in a Dvati pair even if only one of them is targeted.

[St Fan]

Iron Heart Surge also removes negative levels since energy drained is a condition which does not prevent actions.

Except negative levels / energy drained doesn't have a duration measured in rounds. A finicky DM might bar it from working on this ground.

[Anthrowhale]

Except negative levels / energy drained doesn't have a duration measured in rounds. A finicky DM might bar it from working on this ground.

Maybe---I'd allow it. It's both sensible and game balancing to rule that 24 hours is 1 or more rounds. Martials have few nice things.

[St Fan]

Maybe---I'd allow it. It's both sensible and game balancing to rule that 24 hours is 1 or more rounds. Martials have few nice things.

The debate about how and what Iron Heart Surge can apply to is indefinitely unresolved and unending. It is always up to the DM to make a final call.

I personally interpret "1 round or more" as "duration expressed in rounds" and that's final. If the duration is in minutes, hours or days (or is instantaneous or permanent), then it isn't concerned. It still cover a lot of debuffs, some of them quite powerful, but nothing that would last longer than one fight.

[Anthrowhale]

The debate about how and what Iron Heart Surge can apply to is indefinitely unresolved and unending. It is always up to the DM to make a final call.

Yeah, I don't expect resolution. For me, ability damage->no it's damage, lost level->no it's lost. Can't take standard action -> no. Not an official condition -> no. Not lasting for at least a round -> no. Ability damage -> ... probably no as condition specifies need for magic.

This leaves IHS plausibly more powerful than most other L3 maneuvers except White Raven Tactics which is bonkers-good. In particular, it would allow removing, negative levels (2 character levels before restoration), blindness (same character level), exhaustion (2 levels after lesser restoration), and even confused (on a round you can act normally only, the same level as dispel magic). Of course this is instantaneous only, so if you use it to remove dazzle from the sun you'll get just a brief instant of not being dazzled. Overall, roughly equivalent to appropriate-level cleric spells, except self-only and invokable multiple times/day.

[Saintheart]

Worth noting that in some cases, negative levels do last for X number of rounds. It isn't always hard-locked to 24 hours, and in many cases the negative levels only last X number of hours (usually CL number of hours). Negative levels also are not lost levels, they are an effect (although casters do lose one prepared spell, so it's not completely certain.) But Schrodinger's Heart Surge can arguably shut down the Sun, we're not going to get a definitive ruling anywhere here :)

And thanks again for the additions, guys, I will get them in ASAP.

[ShurikVch]

One more Ravenloft moment
Death - the Darklord of Necropolis - got two notable abilities:
1) Touch of the Reaper - inflict 2d4 negative levels (or 1d4 - at successful save); besides living creatures, it also explicitly works on Undead
2) Bestow Corruption - at the cost of losing 1 HD, Death can grant the Death's Child special quality to Undead, which allow to inflict 1 negative level with natural attack (or, if Undead already has Energy Drain - amount of negative levels inflicted increased by 1); just like the aforementioned Touch of the Reaper, this negative level is effective against Undead too - but only 1 negative level - not the whole Energy Drain (if any); alternately, with this ability Death can create new Undead (but lose amount of HD equal to the number of HD of Undead created)