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2024-02-13, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I'd take another day if possible. Life has gotten in the way of typing it up, but I've got the build mapped out.
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2024-02-13, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
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2024-02-15, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Alright, it's time for the reveal! Please refrain from posting until I give the all-clear.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Death is curable: failure is not.
Originally Posted by Simon TamCreator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
He's got a BOGO deal going on: come in to have an arm fixed and get a new one for free!
Originally Posted by Meepo 7.5.ACreator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
A Hamilton reference in 2024? What'd I miss?
Originally Posted by Alexander ParsnipsCreator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Barbarian/Binder bat brutally butchered, brought back, bitten by beast, becomes beatific bear. Blessed blood bubbles bountifully, betters blisters, bumps, bruises.
Originally Posted by Nameless OneLast edited by Inevitability; 2024-02-15 at 03:24 AM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Well, great medical advances are often built on the back of dead rats...
Originally Posted by Moravin DahlCreator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
And lastly, the chair's exhibition entry! Judges are free to share their thoughts but aren't obligated to include it in their judgements.
Really failing to live up to that 'first, do no harm' bit...
Originally Posted by InevitabilityLast edited by Inevitability; 2024-02-15 at 04:05 AM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
And that's it! Five (plus one) serene sawbones for you to admire!
I think Poetic expressed some interest in judging: did anyone else? Once more a reminder that judges get a lot of influence in determining the next round's theme!
Speaking of which, Poetic, do you already have some elements or general themes you'd like to see, so I can account for that while drafting up options? I was personally thinking of doing something with a 5-level PrC, so if there's one you really like, do mention that!Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-15, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
A lovely array of different takes on the concept. I particularly like the touch in the Martyred Champion build of asking the chair to roll on the Reincarnate table.
As promised last page, my two poor un-named build stubs:
Feral Water Orc Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 2 / Fighter 4 / Champion of Gwynharwyf 10 / Bear Warrior 1 / Fighter 5-6
Spoiler: Feats
1: Righteous Wrath
3: Knight of Stars
3 (F): Power Attack
4 (F): Combat Focus
6 (F): Combat Stability
6: Intimidating Rage
9: Combat Vigor
12: Serenity
15: Imperious Command
18: Instantaneous Rage
19 (F): Leap Attack
The trick with this one was combining Feral's fast healing and the PHB2 Combat Form feats' Combat Vigor fast healing to heal the damage done by using Champion of Gwynharwyf's Divine Sacrifice and 'of the Martyr' spells, while using Righteous Wrath to enable Combat Vigor to work (since Righteous Wrath notes that 'While raging, you maintain clarity of mind unusual among barbarians.', and since the Combat Form feats aren't in the list of feats that don't work in rage - in fact, the described 'fear and pain ebb away' and 'mind and body become one' sound very much like a barbarian deep in their rage). Plus I liked the overall thematic line of a feral barbarian learning to maintain clarity of mind while unleashing their fury. And having good Wisdom helps with Serenity, Champion of Gwynharwyf spells and Combat Focus prerequisites all at once.
Lesser Aasimar Shaman 6 / Lion of Talisid 10 / Shaman 7-10
Spoiler: Feats
1: Apprentice (Woodsman)
3: Companion Spellbond
4 (B): Combat Reflexes
6: Favoured of the Companions
9: Natural Spell
10 (B): Exalted Companion
12: Serenity
15: Ashbound
18: Greenbound Summoning
18 (B): Iron Will
I noticed Lion of Talisid while going through the Book of Exalted Deeds working on the Champion of Gwynharwyf build, and it's just a very nice prestige class for a Shaman. Very little in the way of entry requirements, full spellcasting advancement, full animal companion advancement, and gives the Shaman access to Wild Shape and Pounce. No fancy tricks here, just a full caster with wild shape, turn undead and domain access. I set this one up as a summoner but the turning could also be used to fuel all sorts of cheese.Last edited by NotInventedHere; 2024-02-15 at 08:42 PM.
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2024-02-15, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-15, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I had several bare bones, but don't have time to combine them.
1) Broken One Monk with Azure Touch and I'm sure there is feat that lets use Wholeness of Body on others, don't remember name.
2) Spellfire Wielder.
3) Warforged Divine Mind.
I also looked at Diablo II Paladin. He has some healing options, but not enough and it'd look very similar to my IC E6 entry in Fire round.
I'll make table tomorrow.
At this moment I'm judging IC, but when I'll finish I could judge this round as well.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-16, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I rather like those two! Nice to see a CoG build, I was kind of expecting one.
There's a Wholeness of Others ACF in Dragon Magazine 346, could that be what you were thinking of? Functions just like WoB but can target anyone but yourself instead of only yourself. I'm also curious what that divine mind idea would've looked like - I presume warforged for the creation aura? That's quite creative.
Anyway, great to hear you might judge as well! I'll get some ideas whipped up for the next round - from what I recall you were interested in a Weapon Specialization - Fighter round, or something with one of the Thrall Of PrCs? I could include one among the next voting slate.Last edited by Inevitability; 2024-02-16 at 09:19 AM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-16, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I like weapon specialization minus fighter!
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2024-02-16, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Hmm... Maybe, I don't sure. I remember feat, but I could misremember.
I'm also curious what that divine mind idea would've looked like - I presume warforged for the creation aura? That's quite creative.
Anyway, great to hear you might judge as well! I'll get some ideas whipped up for the next round - from what I recall you were interested in a Weapon Specialization - Fighter round, or something with one of the Thrall Of PrCs? I could include one among the next voting slate.
Thralls round also sounds fun, but less fun.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I'm not sure about having 'Bond with weapon' as the second ingredient.
A Weapon Specialization - Fighter round will always demand some number of invested class levels - there's no way to cheese your way into counting as a fighter without putting some levels into one of a handful of classes. Adding 'Bond with Weapon' would introduce a second list of classes, then demand the builds invest in both (and their requirements). That doesn't leave a lot of class and feat space to actually synergize with the ingredients, which leaves me fearing that the builds will all feel rather samey. The fact that martial builds will typically have a few feats locked in by default (archers being all but forced to take PBS and Precise Shot, two-handed warriors needing Power Attack, dexterity builds needing Weapon Finesse) exacerbates the issue in this particular case.
If we're doing a Weapon Specialization - Fighter round, I would really like to have the second ingredient not restrict class levels or feats that much. Instead, I'd like a broad game element or tactic (things like 'flight' or 'spell-like abilities' or 'fear' or 'incarnum'), a particular skill (bluff, diplomacy, tumble, concentration, perform, etc), maybe even an entire sourcebook (PHBII is pretty diverse).Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
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2024-02-16, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-16, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Should be able to start on the judgments this weekend.
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
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2024-02-16, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Would you mind PMing me some ways you see? I can think of one non-class method, and it's not a particularly elegance-friendly way.
Beyond that: it's not just the competition for build resources, it's also the issue of sameness. As I said, a lot of weapon bonds are just +X damage, and I really don't want to run a round where multiple's people entire UoSI is going to come down to 'I swing for 5 extra damage on all my greatsword attacks'.
Again: I'm more than willing to put 'bond with weapon' on the list for a future round! I just don't think it's distinct enough from Weapon Specialization to warrant using for this specific competition.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
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2024-02-16, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
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2024-02-16, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2024-02-16, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
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2024-02-16, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Could make it Gestalt and stick the ECL of each component on a different side. Much more complex building, but shrugs off the issue. Same goes for Tauric and Emancipated Spawn.
Does seem to be "off-theme" for famously trivial to abuse things being in Junkyard Wars unless you make the main point a terrible candidate thematically linked to Symbiotic.
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2024-02-16, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Table
# Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place 1 Simon Tam LG Halfling Shaman 5/Swordsage 10/Citadel Elite 5 2 Meepo 7.5.A NE Necropolitan Kobold Shaman 6/Mystic Wanderer 4/Fleshwarper 10 3 Alexander Parsnips CG Human Swordsage 5/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Holy Liberator 4 4 Nameless One CG→LG Anthropomorphic BatWere-Brown Bear MongrelfolkLion Spiritual Totem Barbarian 1/Binder 1/Martyred Champion of Ilmater 7/Death Delver 3 5 Moravin Dahl NG Human Archivist 12/Sacred Exorcist 1/Witch Hunter 1/Contemplative 6 6 Sulphurclaw, Who Dreams Prophecies LE Greenspawn Zealot Psychic Warrior 2/Blackguard 10 If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-17, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Thanks for the table.
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2024-02-17, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
That's why the forbidden ingredient would be Cheese. Using Symbiotic Creature at all requires a hefty dose of the honor system, but that way you'd have most of a category devoted to how honorable the contestants were about using it. Best case scenario, it becomes a balancing act, with everyone trying to come up with something creative and clever that nonetheless falls within acceptable power bounds.
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2024-02-17, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
I toyed with a few build concepts but wasn't happy with any of them
- Soldier of LightD&D/Purifier of the Hallowed DoctrineHoH - Probably the best one, applying Serenity to both Divine Grace + Lay on Hands, and having the ability to cure taint
- Dvati Electrokineticist/Lasher - Gimmicky hyperspecialised support build that hangs around groups of mechantrices and shambling mounds and spams lightning whips at them whenever they move
- Divine Mind/Sangehirn - They qualify for Serenity, sure, but there's zero reason to enter as a divine mind rather than a member of another class
- Undead Meldshaper + Lifebond Vestments - I don't even remember where I was going with this
I interpret Symbiotic as "two creatures, each with LA +1", making it illegal unless the player can supply a second character under their control which is able to receive a Level Adjustment (i.e. cohorts and thralls work, familiars and animal companions don't). One-time removal of the Leadership ban?
Spoiler: As an asideThere's a passage on DMG p200 where the DM can rule that your cohort won't be present this session (e.g. if there's an extra player and they want to limit party size); on those times you instead gain the benefit of a different feat, chosen when you gained Leadership. This feat can't be used to meet prerequisites.
I don't think I've ever seen this rule used or brought up, but it's a legal way to gain an extra feat in situations like contests where you can't benefit from Leadership.
For round suggestions... what about "at-will spell-like abilities, minus invocations"? Or a round where you must use taint, but your taint score is fixed at 1?Last edited by Prime32; 2024-02-17 at 03:55 PM.
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2024-02-18, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
Y'know, I was going to say that this reading of Symbiotic is completely foreign to me but... I get it? Especially when contrasted with Tauric, the wording on symbiotic really -does- imply that the two creatures are still in some way separate, and my only counterargument is the deeply broken bugsucker sample creature, which I don't think counts for much.
But if that's the case, and both sides of the creature need an ECL, then size and typing restrictions mean getting an actually legal build is going to be a giant headache: and not in a fun way.
Like, your options for good honest unambiguously qualifying creatures are:
Spoiler: Speculation on possible entries for a possible symbiotic round
-Something involving a high-LA and weaksauce template
-One of the very few playable plants that's not small or medium
-Hornhead Saurial
-Hairy Spider
And that's actually just it! Any symbiotic creature where both sides are legal characters is going to need to involve one of those, because no animals have a LA, only one vermin does, and only one humanoid is a size other than small or medium!
And for most of those, symbiotic does not have actual synergy, so the glaringly obvious thing to do is to declare that you're splitting yourself in two and abusing the action economy at which point we're not having a symbiotic round, we're having a cohort round with weird restrictions. And I don't know, I can't say that particularly excites me, especially not considering the amount of extra work competitors would have to put in and the temptation to go optimize the leadership unban instead of the actual ingredients.
...on that thought, how about a Tauric round? "HD of the two creatures mixed together, LA of the base creature plus two" is still abusable, but it's a lot clearer on how it actually works (though maybe we should fix the wonky base save calculation method).
The taint idea seems interesting, especially if we just ban the taint casters or limit it somehow.
I've been thinking about SLAs - Invocations for a while: I don't know about having the at-will restriction explicitly in there. If a build is chiefly doing other stuff but tries to squeeze by with a handful of 1/day SLAs, it'll get hammered in UoSI regardless, and on the flip side if a build manages to stretch limited-use SLAs into all day usefulness, I think that accounts for the spirit of the competition.
There's a few other classes that primarily deal in SLAs and a handful that get them as side benefits, but only one that I'd actually consider an obvious path, which we can make less attractive by tweaking the third ingredient. And to restore some of the restrictiveness, let's make sure there's a decent investment of feats or levels mandated.
Just to give a couple random ways to fill in this concept:
SLAs + Any DoTU Style Feat (Despana School, Vae School, etc) - Invocations
SLAs + Any Type-Changing Class (that is, any class that changes a character's type) - Invocations
SLAs + Whirlwind Attack - Invocations
SLAs + Outcast Champion - Invocations
SLAs + Ambush Feats - Invocations
SLAs + RHD - Invocations
SLAs + Savvy Rogue (if you can force 10 levels of a PrC why not 10 levels of a base class) - Invocations
SLAs + Deepstone Sentinel - Invocations
Do any of these seem interesting?Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
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2024-02-24, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars XLV: Serenity + Healing - Paladin
The reveal was about a week ago - Poetic and loky, you both expressed interest in judging, right? Any updates on that front?
If anyone has any suggestions for future ingredients or combinations, now's the time to get them in - I'll put a slate up for voting tomorrow.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
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