PHB U8 Survey Results Released

[Blatant Beast]

I can't believe the amount of hubub over a spell (Spiritual Weapon) that's pretty poor in most circumstances.

That is Pack Tactics talk, where they include a severe, click bait statement about something, and then spend the video walking back their title.

https://youtu.be/tGks79yE5Bw?si=sWCBpB9jP__EoBeN

The link below is a screen grab from the PT video on Spiritual Weapon.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...82b726d0babbb&

For those that do not want to click it: the conclusion PT makes about Spiritual Weapon: “finally, it (Spiritual Weapon), does have something going for it”.

So even Spirtual Weapon’s detractors, still think the spell has “something going for it”.

SW is a C level spell…it does what you expect it to, and it can be useful…like the emergency blanket and flares I keep in my car.

I would not classify a car kept emergency blanket or flares as overrated, merely because I do not need to use them everyday, or because they are not applicable to every situation.

[Psyren]

I wouldn't exactly equate Spiritual Weapon to flares and an emergency blanket either, though. That analogy seems more like the province of something like Revivify; I don't need it every day, but I keep it prepared because when I do, I really do.

[Inquisitor]

That is Pack Tactics talk, where they include a severe, click bait statement about something, and then spend the video walking back their title.



For those that do not want to click it: the conclusion PT makes about Spiritual Weapon: “finally, it (Spiritual Weapon), does have something going for it”.

So even Spirtual Weapon’s detractors, still think the spell has “something going for it”.

SW is a C level spell…it does what you expect it to, and it can be useful…like the emergency blanket and flares I keep in my car.

I would not classify a car kept emergency blanket or flares as overrated, merely because I do not need to use them everyday, or because they are not applicable to every situation.

Are we disagreeing? I'm not sure. I said it was pretty poor in most circumstances. You describe it as a C level spell that can be useful, which I agree with. I don't think we're that far off.

The only bit I'd disagree with is that it 'does what you expect it to do'. I think the issues with this spell: that you're likely firing it up on round 2, that it's slow (didn't realize how many rounds were spent unable to attack until our group tried this on a map), and that Cleric's do have (even pre-Telekinetic) other BA options that are more impactful, particularly Healing Word, result in this spell not actually doing what people expect. Proponents of this spell often speak of reliable use of a BA. Given that you rate it a C, you're clearly aware that it's not in most circumstances, and that in many fights you'd be lucky to get 2 hits out of the thing. I think a lot of players 'expect' way more out of this spell than it usually delivers and use it way too much.

That said, it's pretty bizarre that this was a target for the nerf hammer.

[Schwann145]

The thing to remember, though, is that (generally speaking) Clerics lack offensive options that pack a punch.
So while, in the grand scheme of all things D&D, Spiritual Weapon isn't that impressive on it's own, when you look at it through the lens of a Cleric, who is likely struggling to feel relevant in combat compared to the warrior types and arcane casters, it becomes very good.

Is Healing Word a better use of a Bonus Action? Generally speaking, yes, almost always. But waiting around for someone to need a Healing Word is far less engaging (ie: fun) than actively participating in the action, which Spiritual Weapon lets you do.

[Blatant Beast]

Are we disagreeing? I'm not sure. I said it was pretty poor in most circumstances. You describe it as a C level spell that can be useful, which I agree with. I don't think we're that far off.

Agreed.

The larger issue, I think is the criteria of judgement.

A Spiritual Weapon that slays a foe that has Legendary Actions, before said foe can finish off a comrade, strikes me as being of similar value as a Bonus Action used to cast Healing Word for Yo-Yo healing.

Even the Telekinetic Feat on a cleric, is often overrated, in people’s opinions as the feat is presented as a “I win button”. The feat is great, but to garner the full value of the Telekinetic feat requires setup, and the Telekinetic feat, becomes a bit less useful as one advances in level due to Legendary Resistance and high saving throws.

[Inquisitor]

Agreed.

The larger issue, I think is the criteria of judgement.

A Spiritual Weapon that slays a foe that has Legendary Actions, before said foe can finish off a comrade, strikes me as being of similar value as a Bonus Action used to cast Healing Word for Yo-Yo healing.

Even the Telekinetic Feat on a cleric, is often overrated, in people’s opinions as the feat is presented as a “I win button”. The feat is great, but to garner the full value of the Telekinetic feat requires setup, and the Telekinetic feat, becomes a bit less useful as one advances in level due to Legendary Resistance and high saving throws.

For sure, if the SW can finish off (any) foe before it attacks then the value goes up, though this gets into a bit of white room debate and sometimes assumes the characters (players) know more than they do. My experience with this spell would suggest it's less likely to be able to target a foe that players think is ready to drop anyway; the poor movement means the SW is often stuck attacking whatever it can reach.

I do think this was one of the strange things about PT's vid on the subject though. I'f I'm remembering correctly he use a model with one big enemy and claimed that was the best case. To me it would make more sense that the best case was small foes so that the extra bits of damage you're going to do with SW might actually prevent attacks during the battle.

I think Schwann's point about 'feeling relevant' is telling. People want to feel like active participants, and filling up their Bonus Action to be busy, even if later on in the day they run short on spells that might be more impactful does that.