Results 151 to 180 of 421
-
2024-02-03, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Soon had nothing to do with Calder's sealing, as as per Serini's comments he didn't contribute anything to this dungeon and its defenses.
Last edited by Precure; 2024-02-03 at 03:20 PM.
-
2024-02-03, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Caldet blames the whole group for his imprisonment. And explicitly says that the imprisonment is a consequence of surrendering.
"Soon convinced us to spare that Dragon one time, so we sealed him, then I took the idea and ran with it for my dungeon" does not mean Serini considers Soon contributed.
-
2024-02-03, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2021
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I'm curious about the timeline of events, here. Presumably Calder was defeated before the Scribbles broke up, but what happened in between? Was he put in a big dragon-sized prison and Serini (and Dorukan, presumably) came back to trap him later? Or was he put in stasis and then moved to the Tomb? Or did construction on the Gate defenses begin before the falling out? Or a fourth option I'm not thinking of?
-
2024-02-03, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
-
2024-02-03, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
-
2024-02-03, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Important to note that while we don't know how long it took, there was a certain amount of time between "the Order of the Scribble seals the last Rift" and "the Order of the Scribble build the first Gate". And they managed to work together until the last Gate was finished.
Furthermore, the construction of the Dungeon of Dorukan was done during the "building the Gates" period, and the Final Dungeon is very similar in term of architectural features, so it's likely it was built at the same time.
So one way or another we're looking at long period between "Calder is defeated by the Order, before Kraagor's death" and "Serini takes on defending her Gate".
I think it makes more sense if he was put in stasis immediately after his defeat and put in the dungeon later (either by displacing him or by building the dungeon around his prison).
-
2024-02-03, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure if anyone has made this point, but if it was indeed spell resistance that allowed Calder to remain conscious... he's unlikely to be the *only* monster with high spell resistance in the dungeon. Since there has been speculation that there is a "final" encounter with something really special, well, it wouldn't surprise me to see that final encounter having high spell resistance and then being really, really angry, even if it went into stasis willingly.
-
2024-02-03, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
No. Before that V was TN. V headed toward evil with Familicide, which the deva tried to warn Roy about before he left Celestia. Belkar greeted V at that point into the deep end of the alignment pool.
What amazes me is that there are people who do.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
-
2024-02-03, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Belkar inferred from the Darth Varsuvius outfit and is not necessarily an authority. And the deva spoke specifically of "moving into the direction of Evil". The way I see it, V is on a precipice. They may still retreat to Neutrality if they manage to repent. If V didn't regret, then the Fall would be certain.
Part of the problem here is that Stickworld apparantly differentiates between "official" alignment, which is what the character has on the "character sheet" and actually decides how stuff interacts with them, and "final" alignment, which is the "true" alingment, is only determined after death and decides which afterlife you get.
-
2024-02-03, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
So in other words, if he was conscious the whole time, Calder had to deliberately resist the spell AND not tell his captors the spell had failed.
Also, I don't quite understand how spell resistance worked here. It seems that Calder is saying that his body was effectively paralyzed by the stasis spell, but his consciousness wasn't suspended at the same time. So the spell resistance prevented some aspects of the spell, but not others.
This, to me, indicates that the Red Dragon was planning to break out as soon as the coast was clear... and then discovered he couldn't.[/QUOTE]
-
2024-02-03, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
The implication to me is there were two spells, a "physically keep you bound in this circle" spell and a stasis spell that was supposed to shut him off. He made his spell resistance check against the stasis spell and thus was conscious, but didn't save against the binding circle so he was still stuck in there.
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
-
2024-02-03, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I disagree. Belkar has been consistent throughout the comic as a truth teller (the inconvenient truth) in his own sarcastic voice and style.
And the deva spoke specifically of "moving into the direction of Evil".
Part of the problem here is
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2024-02-03 at 06:36 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
-
2024-02-03, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
-
2024-02-03, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
-
2024-02-03, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
There's all kinds of difference between things like just leaving people tied up long enough for the party to get away and not be bothered by them again, or lawful imprisonment by the authorities of an area where people had actually committed crimes, versus indefinite indentured servitude as a stasis-bound dungeon guardian.
The two bandits (IIRC) and definitely the Linear Guild were people who had in fact committed heinous criminal acts and deserved imprisonment or were too dangerous to leave at large. And even then, besides the straight-up confinement, in neither case did this involve torture or anything equivalent to it. Meanwhile, decades spent locked in stasis could very well have driven Calder insane with rage, which even someone with a penchant for enthralling cultists does not necessarily deserve.
Also, I'm going by the principle discussed in the scene with Roy and his Deva in the afterlife that it's not just individual acts that matter, but the bigger picture. Roy was allowed to stay under Lawful Good because, as imperfect and sometimes borderline as he got, what matters is that he led himself and the rest of the OotS in a good-aligned and order-aligned direction overall.
It seems to me that the Scribblers walked a more morally ambiguous and neutral path on the spectrum of adventuring parties we've seen, not only because of things like subduing and repurposing a powerful red dragon, but also they simply exhibited more self-centered jerkassery to each other. They couldn't put individual desires secondary to working as a team. They were driven by an all-encompassing objective of preserving the world from the Rifts and the Snarl, but allowed morally grey things to happen on their watch as they pursued that goal.I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
-
2024-02-03, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
-
2024-02-03, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
No, they said THEM putting another soul in it would be a violation. They didn't make any promises on behalf of anyone else.
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
-
2024-02-03, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
On that subject, does this new comic strip imply that Subdual was not how the Scribble took down Calder? Because they seemed pretty content to go for lethal damage until he surrendered-and I assume more people than Sereni were down to just kill him.
Though now that I think about it, I'm kinda curious how the party individually weighed in on the situation. I was gonna say Giriard is the sort of paranoid who'd kill the enemy just to be safe, but there's his draconic bloodline which could push his stance in either direction. Dorukan could be neutral or have an academic curiosity. Considering Lirian spared Xykon...well...
-
2024-02-03, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
-
2024-02-03, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
-
2024-02-04, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2024
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Technically true, but I think it's beside the point.
V made a deal to trade possession of their soul for X amount of time in exchange for power.
That's the extent of the terms and conditions they were aware of at the time.
When the fiends yoinked the soul early to keep from destroying the gate, that was a surprise as the fiends had mislead through omission. Anything they advise V after that is explanation from an source already confirmed to be deceptive. It might be true, false, or deceptive.
When they say "putting another soul in your body would be a violation of our contract" it could be completely true, it could be misleading as they intend to have Sabine do it and thus not technically them or a violation, they could be bull****ting V entirely.
When they say V's body is shielded from all harm, that's not remotely implied by their original terms. To whatever extent V's body is shielded from harm, it's purely for the fiends' benefit and to the extent it benefits the fiends. I don't think it's necessary to split hairs about what counts as harm when the prohibition against harm is a post-facto addition by proven deceitful and self-interested parties.Last edited by LuckyTheOrc; 2024-02-04 at 12:18 AM.
-
2024-02-04, 04:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Jerusalem
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
This strip tells us that Calder was paralyzed but conscious, which means it was telepathy that allowed him to contact Sunny. To me, that's enough evidence to conclude that the 'mindbender' quip referred to an actual level in mindbender.
The polar ray sure seems like released ocular spells, and that's the sort of detail Rich is usually good with. Downsides: it'd be two 10th level slots without metamagic cost reduction (not that hard to accomplish, but still), and it'd be at the very very least 32d6 damage, likely more. Roy could've taken it in stride, but V would've been immediately dead, I think. Unless their Con is way better than previously assumed.
Speaking of V, I think the whole discussion about the fiends lying to them doesn't really work. Catching them on a technicality? Obviously. Straight up lying? At that point, they could've just permanently talen over V, and of story.
Any thoughts on how Calder got rid of his cold vulnerability?Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
My judgments and medals!
The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!
Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)
-
2024-02-04, 04:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
The Draconomicon includes a feat Overcome Weakness, which removes Vulnerability to an energy.
-
2024-02-04, 04:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
-
2024-02-04, 05:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, "We didn't say when we would take over your soul" is the kind of obvious-in-retrospect loophole that fit a "deal with the devil" story. Taking over his body when they explicitly said they would not do it. It isn't a loophole to the contract, but an entirely new clause that didn't exist when the contract was sealed. It lacks narrative elegance.
-
2024-02-04, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2024-02-04, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
This actually depends somewhat on the mechanics involved. If the fiends need a contract in the first place to take someone's soul, then it implies that there are forces which prevent them from removing souls at will, and such mechanics could also make things like putting a soul in other people's bodies impossible without their consent. In order for putting a different soul in V's body to be a "gross violation of their contract" it would either have to be something that they have a specific clause forbidding or something that they would need a specific clause to allow. Since it doesn't appear to be the former, the latter must be true, and thus Sabine would not be able to do it on her own.
Let's say you had a contract with an employer that demanded that you be at a work location for a specific period of time. It would be a "violation of your contract" for your employer to send someone to occupy your house while you were there, even if you contract doesn't mention anything about it, because entering someone's house without permission is illegal to start with. The contract doesn't allow them to do it, without a clause specifying otherwise. They couldn't "get around" this by having a third party enter your house instead.
So either the "putting another soul in your body would be a violation of our contract" line is a complete lie, there is an unmentioned clause which forbids it (which wouldn't make sense, because why would they put that in there if V wasn't even thinking to ask for it?), or they would need an express clause allowing it, in which case Sabine can't do it on her own.
Of course, it could turn out to be that there is an obscure "law" that this contract creates a loophole for, but that wouldn't be very narratively interesting, since it would mean that what they can or can't do is dependent on knowledge that is inaccessible to the audience, making everything that happens functionally random. It's hard for me to see how it could be any kind of clever misdirection when we don't know enough about how this stuff works for it to feel like we were being misdirected instead of just being lied to.
So all of this is to say that there's no real narrative function to the line other than to tell us that it's something that they can't do.
-
2024-02-04, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Jerusalem
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
That's another point in favor of it not being ocular spell, but I'm unsure it's conclusive. We've never seen a spell stylized like that before, and we've seen dragon-casting before. The spell looking precisely like what an ocular spell would do (including shooting two rays rather than one, with one action) is surprising.
I think there's a real case for both possibilities.Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
My judgments and medals!
The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!
Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)
-
2024-02-04, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Also, Calder would have to cast Ocular Polar Ray twice in the previous 8 hours before releasing the spells on V. If Rich wanted to do a "Stasis stops feat timers" thing then Calder could've done it decades ago, but it's not something I'm ready to assume yet.
Ocular Spell has a lot of difficulties, but the description of Polar Ray actually says in the first sentence that it comes from your hand, so I'm not super happy to just give up and say it was art style. Maybe there's another excuse out there for shooting rays from your eyes. It's hard to search for.TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
-
2024-02-04, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I think that there are only two times we've seen a dragon casting a ranged spell. One was draco-Mom's Finger of Death. That one, unsurprisingly, was emitted from her claw/finger. The other is in the bonus material in No Cure For the Paladin Blues, in which
So not much precedent, but what there is, somewhat supports the eye-beams being atypical.Spoiler: NCFtPBthe silver dragon cast Banishment, and the spell appeared to emanate from the dragon's hand/paw.