The Quicksilver Hourglass EPIC adventure(Closed)

[samduke]

Question about the Deep Pool feat from Jessie's Epic Pathfinder document:

The non-epic version of Arcane Pool does not cost 1 point per +1 enhancement bonus, it has a flat cost of 1 point. So should it cost 6 Arcane Pool points to add +6 to a weapon, or should it retain the original 1-point cost of the non-epic ability?

Benefit: You can now use your arcane pool to empower a weapon with an epic enhancement bonus. As with its non-epic counterpart, it costs 1 point from your spell pool per point of enhancement bonus.

Arcane Pool (Su)

At 1st level, the magus gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the magus prepares his spells.At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.

At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.

Reading the bolded parts, I belive it is intended to say to get a non epic +5 requires 5 spell points, but it says 1 and then says the +# grows based on level.

the epic its more costly as is all epic things, and it says 1 point per bonus

So I am a raw person as things tend to go and the feature upto +5 raw costs 1, but at +6 it will cost you 6, × 10 cost 10 ect

[Talivan]

Hello Sam,

Can I use Signature Deed feat as a Swasbuckler?

[samduke]

Hello Sam,

Can I use Signature Deed feat as a Swasbuckler?

first
it seems easy to abuse, but did you see the Errata, Signature Deed : Once per round, you can perform this deed for 1 fewer grit point (minimum 0).

second
Signature Deed requires having 11 levels of Gunslinger, RAI is obviously that Swashbucklers can take the Signature Deed feat, by RAW Swashbucklers don't seem to be able to ever qualify for Signature Deed, even though by RAI it seems like they should be able to.

Answer:

NO

[samduke]

DEADLINE for NEW INTEREST is FEB 16th and then DEADLINE for Applications to be completed Feb 21-22 ish

[TheAlmightyKue]

first
it seems easy to abuse, but did you see the Errata, Signature Deed : Once per round, you can perform this deed for 1 fewer grit point (minimum 0).

second
Signature Deed requires having 11 levels of Gunslinger, RAI is obviously that Swashbucklers can take the Signature Deed feat, by RAW Swashbucklers don't seem to be able to ever qualify for Signature Deed, even though by RAI it seems like they should be able to.

Answer:

NO

Thats fair. Will have to change that on my Muse concept as well.
[Grit and Panache
The gunslinger’s grit and the swashbuckler’s panache represent two paths to gain access to the same heroic pool. Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources together into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points.

For purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed's level requirement. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa.] this is the paragraph on Panache under Swashbuckler on the Archives of Nethy, so I can get the confusion. They never errated the feat they just added it to the Swashbuckler.
EDIT: Just citing this as explanation because the classes say something, the feat doesn't. Not disagreeing with you.

[samduke]

Thats fair. Will have to change that on my Muse concept as well.
[Grit and Panache
The gunslinger’s grit and the swashbuckler’s panache represent two paths to gain access to the same heroic pool. Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources together into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points.

For purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed's level requirement. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa.] this is the paragraph on Panache under Swashbuckler on the Archives of Nethy, so I can get the confusion. They never errated the feat they just added it to the Swashbuckler.
EDIT: Just citing this as explanation because the classes say something, the feat doesn't. Not disagreeing with you.

yes and that was why I worded the RAI/RAW aspects.

but unless they errata the feat, the feat requirements are RAW and what I will go by.
if you take swashbuckler for 10 levels and gunslinger for 11 levels - THEN all good the feat requirement is met.

from Archives (aonprd)
Signature Deed (Grit)
Source Ultimate Combat pg. 119
You are known for performing a particular deed, and can perform it with greater ease.

Prerequisites: Grit class feature, gunslinger level 11th.

Benefit: Pick a deed that you have access to and that you must spend grit to perform. Once per round, you can perform this deed for 1 fewer grit point (minimum 0). You can reduce the cost of a deed in this way only if you have at least 1 grit point.

[Talivan]

first
it seems easy to abuse, but did you see the Errata, Signature Deed : Once per round, you can perform this deed for 1 fewer grit point (minimum 0).

second
Signature Deed requires having 11 levels of Gunslinger, RAI is obviously that Swashbucklers can take the Signature Deed feat, by RAW Swashbucklers don't seem to be able to ever qualify for Signature Deed, even though by RAI it seems like they should be able to.

Answer:

NO

yes and that was why I worded the RAI/RAW aspects.

but unless they errata the feat, the feat requirements are RAW and what I will go by.
if you take swashbuckler for 10 levels and gunslinger for 11 levels - THEN all good the feat requirement is met.

from Archives (aonprd)
Signature Deed (Grit)
Source Ultimate Combat pg. 119
You are known for performing a particular deed, and can perform it with greater ease.

Prerequisites: Grit class feature, gunslinger level 11th.

Benefit: Pick a deed that you have access to and that you must spend grit to perform. Once per round, you can perform this deed for 1 fewer grit point (minimum 0). You can reduce the cost of a deed in this way only if you have at least 1 grit point.

That's Ok, I fill out all my feat slots anyway.


Adding myself to the table

Player	Character	Race	Track 1:Classes/PRC	Track 2:Classes/PRC	Complete
Da'Shain	Elspereth Torsi	Half-Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 5 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter, Spawn Slayer) 16	Fluff 75%, Mechanics 90% (needs spell selection)
Talivan	Iorwen SIlvertree	Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 20 (Inspired Blade) /	WIP
-	-	-	-	-	-

I'm doing a similar character as Da'Shain, maybe we can be relatives somehow

[Athaleon]

That's Ok, I fill out all my feat slots anyway.


Adding myself to the table

Player	Character	Race	Track 1:Classes/PRC	Track 2:Classes/PRC	Complete
Da'Shain	Elspereth Torsi	Half-Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 5 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter, Spawn Slayer) 16	Fluff 75%, Mechanics 90% (needs spell selection)
Talivan	Iorwen SIlvertree	Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 20 (Inspired Blade) /	WIP
-	-	-	-	-	-

I'm doing a similar character as Da'Shain, maybe we can be relatives somehow

Lots of Magi in the running. Maybe we can all belong to an order of arcane warriors.

[TheAlmightyKue]

Lots of Magi in the running. Maybe we can all belong to an order of arcane warriors.

My muse idea also uses Swashbuckler. So we are just the Musketeers at this rate xD

[samduke]

My muse idea also uses Swashbuckler. So we are just the Musketeers at this rate xD

Could be interesting but diversity might be better

[TheAlmightyKue]

Could be interesting but diversity might be better

You're not wrong. My character is a Bard//Swashbuckler so another 6th level caster into a swashbuckler. I suppose I could have done Paladin but I didn't really want to focus on god centric stuff given your bans and the way the game was set up.
The Star Archon is pretty good. It would be a Cleric//Monk so at least different.

EDIT: Also notice nothing too non-human looking. Half-Elf, Elf, and possibly my Muse which is a fey so looks a lot like an elf.

Someone play this Looking like this only two legged. That would be fun for a dungeon crawl insectoids.

[Talivan]

Could be interesting but diversity might be better

While I want to play a Magus, I can and will change to a rogue / alchemist build

[Lioslaith]

Seeing all the two weapon fighter types I am going to switch to a paladin/inquisitor

[Talivan]

Sam,

Just want to check if Rogue // Alchemist (Vivisectionist) will stack sneak damage?, since SA from all sources always stack and also Vivi specifically says it stacks with Rogue for SA.

If true I will go with Underground Chemist to touch 11d6+INT bomb with +22d6 SA once per turn (unfortunate restriction, but It can be bypassed by Hunter’s Surprise Advanced talent, right?)

[samduke]

Sam,

Just want to check if Rogue // Alchemist (Vivisectionist) will stack sneak damage?, since SA from all sources always stack and also Vivi specifically says it stacks with Rogue for SA.

If true I will go with Underground Chemist to touch 11d6+INT bomb with +22d6 SA once per turn (unfortunate restriction, but It can be bypassed by Hunter’s Surprise Advanced talent, right?)

Vivisectionist

Sneak Attack
At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

This ability replaces bomb.

Underground Chemist ?? not sure what the goal is with this.

Hunter’s Surprise (Ex)
Prerequisite: Advanced talents
Benefit: Once per day, a rogue with this talent can designate a single enemy she is adjacent to as her prey. Until the end of her next turn, she can add her sneak attack damage to all attacks made against her prey, even if she is not flanking it or it is not flat-footed.

*well I do not see the bomb part happening where it is replaced. but the sneak attack part seems rather explained already, Hunters Surprise makes sneak a bit more interesting.

[Talivan]

Vivisectionist

Sneak Attack
At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

This ability replaces bomb.

Underground Chemist ?? not sure what the goal is with this.

Hunter’s Surprise (Ex)
Prerequisite: Advanced talents
Benefit: Once per day, a rogue with this talent can designate a single enemy she is adjacent to as her prey. Until the end of her next turn, she can add her sneak attack damage to all attacks made against her prey, even if she is not flanking it or it is not flat-footed.

*well I do not see the bomb part happening where it is replaced. but the sneak attack part seems rather explained already, Hunters Surprise makes sneak a bit more interesting.

I can get Bomb feature back via Rogue's Bomber Talent.

Rogue (Underground Chemist) allows SA bonus damage into direct hit from bombs

Spoiler: OCC: Thoughts

Show

But I just realized I will get fewer bombs cuz with Rogue I can create INT number of bombs while Alchemist can do INT+Class Levels Bombs, so I will spend half battle throwing bombs and half battle with a bow.....mmmmmhh...need to make decisions....or be a Hobgoblin to get few more bombs.....OR just ditch Vivi and go Regular Achy to get Class Level + 2xINT bombs but less SA damage....Few BOmbs with 2xSA or Many many bombs with just 1xSA........decisions,decisions....

[samduke]

I can get Bomb feature back via Rogue's Bomber Talent, but I just realized I will get fewer bombs cuz with Rogue I can create INT number of bombs while Alchemist can do INT+Class Levels Bombs, so I will spend half battle throwing bombs and half battle with a bow.....mmmmmhh...need to make decisions....or be a Hobgoblin to get few more bombs.....

I see, just note that I am ruling that Sneak Attack damage will NOT be dealt to everyone in the area of effect of the splash if you are chosen.

[Talivan]

I see, just note that I am ruling that Sneak Attack damage will NOT be dealt to everyone in the area of effect of the splash if you are chosen.

Yes, that's the rule, only direct hits from bombs gets the SA damage

[Lioslaith]

Anyone interested in teamwork feats? If not I’ll probably just ignore them on my inquisitor

[TheAlmightyKue]

I dont mind them but I have never used them before. Working on a version of the Muse that uses Scaled Fist Monk, she is even more tanky but her focus is on "Dancing" which is what she calls her flurry of blows. I dont like the Monk capstone so I might replace it with the Perfect Body, Flawless Mind (Ex) alternate capstone which adds a free untyped ability bonus to sure up weaker ability scores. Might help with the All Swashbucklers issue.

[droobles]

I dont mind them but I have never used them before. Working on a version of the Muse that uses Scaled Fist Monk, she is even more tanky but her focus is on "Dancing" which is what she calls her flurry of blows. I dont like the Monk capstone so I might replace it with the Perfect Body, Flawless Mind (Ex) alternate capstone which adds a free untyped ability bonus to sure up weaker ability scores. Might help with the All Swashbucklers issue.

I believe the GM said no to alternate capstones.

@Samduke your multiclass rules ask for at least 5 levels in a class, so is skald 20/prestige class 1 a no go?

[TheAlmightyKue]

I believe the GM said no to alternate capstones.

@Samduke your multiclass rules ask for at least 5 levels in a class, so is skald 20/prestige class 1 a no go?

Really? Where I didnt see anyone ask about it. But even then I am almost done with my Muse Bard//Swashbuckler, just need her history. Switching to Monk is just an option so we have different martial options.

[samduke]

I believe the GM said no to alternate capstones.

@Samduke your multiclass rules ask for at least 5 levels in a class, so is skald 20/prestige class 1 a no go?

On classes/prc's 5 is what I indicated yes, that was implemented to prevent dipping 1,2 &3 levels of x

On alt capstone I don't recall doing so, that said if you want to use an alt capstone have fun

Really? Where I didnt see anyone ask about it. But even then I am almost done with my Muse Bard//Swashbuckler, just need her history. Switching to Monk is just an option so we have different martial options.

Ok

[MalkavTheMaven]

In before the Interest Deadline

Spoiler: Dice Roll Set 1 & 2

Show

Set 1
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[9]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[16]

Set 2
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[6]
(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[15]

[Athaleon]

Got enough of the character done to add myself to the table. Sure is a lot of Elf Magus in here.

Player	Character	Race	Track 1:Classes/PRC	Track 2:Classes/PRC	Complete
Da'Shain	Elspereth Torsi	Half-Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 5 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter, Spawn Slayer) 16	Fluff 75%, Mechanics 90% (needs spell selection)
Talivan	Iorwen SIlvertree	Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 20 (Inspired Blade) /	WIP
Athaleon	Kelhedros	Elf	Magus (Eldritch Archer, Hexcrafter) 21	Fighter 21	WIP
-	-	-	-	-	-

[samduke]

Got enough of the character done to add myself to the table. Sure is a lot of Elf Magus in here.

Player	Character	Race	Track 1:Classes/PRC	Track 2:Classes/PRC	Complete
Da'Shain	Elspereth Torsi	Half-Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 5 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter, Spawn Slayer) 16	Fluff 75%, Mechanics 90% (needs spell selection)
Talivan	Iorwen SIlvertree	Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 20 (Inspired Blade) /	WIP
Athaleon	Kelhedros	Elf	Magus (Eldritch Archer, Hexcrafter) 21	Fighter 21	WIP
-	-	-	-	-	-

It does seem popular

[Talivan]

Got enough of the character done to add myself to the table. Sure is a lot of Elf Magus in here.

Changing my entry to a Rogue/Alchemist, he will be versatile as face, scout, debuffer, pseudo-healer and mid range attacker

Player	Character	Race	Track 1:Classes/PRC	Track 2:Classes/PRC	Complete
Da'Shain	Elspereth Torsi	Half-Elf	Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) 21	Swashbuckler 5 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter, Spawn Slayer) 16	Fluff 75%, Mechanics 90% (needs spell selection)
Talivan	Knox Molotov	Tiefling	Alchemist(Grenadier) 21	Rogue(Underground Chemist) 21	WIP
Athaleon	Kelhedros	Elf	Magus (Eldritch Archer, Hexcrafter) 21	Fighter 21	WIP
-	-	-	-	-	-

[Lioslaith]

Here’s a work in progress sheet from me. https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2879276 Human paladin/inquisitor

[Da'Shain]

Considering redoing my application, would a Mezlan be acceptable as a monster as PC? Note it would lose the normal ooze immunity to mind-affecting, since it has an Int score. My idea, if it helps, would be a creature who was created for a purpose so long in the past that its memories are extremely spotty and intermixed, unable to truly tell what was from its original life before being transformed, what was from its "real" life as a shape changing warrior/spy, and what was from created identities and lives spent in deep cover. Over time it's gravitated towards being a hero and its varied abilities make it a force to be reckoned with, but by normal humanoid reckoning it's hard to get along with its multiple personalities.

Mechanically, it would be a Mezlan [CR 14]/Fighter 7 // Medium 20/Ritualist 1, with the Mezlan/Fighter side representing its original programming as a shape changing enforcer, and the Medium/Ritualist side representing its poorly integrated but vast memories from such a long and varied life. Fluff-wise, I'd play it as channeling memories instead of spirits, with specific locations required to jog its memories of playing as or being different people, and take an archetype to get rid of the haunt channeling abilities since they don't really make sense with this fluff, though I'm not sure which yet.


Also, question: assuming a monster is used as a PC's class, would we determine ability scores by the 3.5 method of subtracting 10 or 11 from the monster's statistics and treating the difference as its racial ability score modifiers on top of our rolled stats, or would we use the monster's ability scores as printed with the normal bonus from monsters advancing with class levels? Either is fine with me, I'd just like to know before I start building such a character.

[TheAlmightyKue]

Question just out of the blue would cuddling, hugging, or hand-holding be considered "Sexual Relations" Since doing either without consent is sexual harassment.
Because seeing the current builds it looks like we have a lot of Martials and not a lot of 9th level Arcane magics. So Muse Seducer Witch might be doable, also adds to the buffing of the party gimmick. Because giving someone a hug or something for a +2 Morale Bonus to saving throws is just insanely useful.