Setting Sun School Stance and Maneuver Combinations Library

[Saintheart]

Setting Sun Combos Library

This thread is aimed at recording interesting and/or powerful combinations that can be generated with stances and maneuvers from the Setting Sun school from Tome of Battle.

What follows is nine posts, for the nine levels of manevers and stances, listing each stance/maneuver and with combinations that seem to optimise or make stronger the stance or maneuver.

If you've got suggestions, please add them somewhere below :)

[Saintheart]

Level 1 maneuvers and stances

Spoiler: Counter Charge (maneuver)

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Counter Charge + Cometary Collision^PHB2

Ready an action to charge a foe who charges someone (this initial target needn't be you!). When they charge, your readied action goes off and you move towards them, attack with a big bonus, and block their path to their initial target.

At this point, they get to choose to 'charge' you instead, and probably will... letting you use your immediate action to throw up Counter Charge and potentially negate the attack entirely. Even if the counter fails, the target still isn't getting the normal charge bonuses against you.

End result: a foe who was going to smash your squishiest ally instead got hit for a solid chunk of damage, lost a turn, and is now 10 feet away in a direction advantageous to you. On your turn, you can then 5 ft. step to full attack if necessary, move away and ready another Cometary Collision, or just move over to some other foe. (Credit to Inevitability on this one!)


Counter Charge + Distant Horizon^ToB
The Turn the Tables maneuver within Distant Horizon was basically written for Counter Charge: if a target misses you with his charge attack or is unable to make the charge, you get to charge him even if you can't move more than 5 feet, and even if you can't charge in a straight line.

Spoiler: Mighty Throw (maneuver)

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Some of the stuff we talk about here has application to the other "X Throw" maneuvers further down the list, because they typically say they operate more or less as a trip, and indeed not-infrequently say 'this maneuver works like Mighty Throw except where noted.' Which is to say you can basically use many of these same combinations for the other, higher-end throws.

Mighty Throw basically says, make a touch attack on the opponent, and resolve it as a trip. If successful, you throw the target 10 feet away from you, where it ends up prone. The movement doesn't provoke AoOs. So one way to optimise this is to concentrate on the maneuver being 'resolved as a trip'.

Mighty Throw + Improved Trip^SRD
Simplest cheese of the lot, since you get a free attack if you trip your opponent in a melee attack, which Mighty Throw does (it triggers off a melee touch attack). So the combination is start Mighty Throw, succeed on the trip, and get a free melee attack, before then hurling the opponent through the air.

Mighty Throw + Battle Jump^UE + Improved Trip^SRD + Goliath race^RoS + Sudden Leap^ToB (Tiger Claw 1 maneuver)
Since Mighty Throw is a standard action, it works with Battle Jump, which in turn allows you to be considered one size bigger than usual for a trip. Goliaths get Powerful Builds that treat them as one size bigger for opposed checks, which explicitly stack with similar such abilities. So as Medium to start with, taking a touch attack, we're considered Huge (+8), and then get another +4 from Improved Trip, and then +4 from Mighty Throw for a +16 before we pick either our STR or DEX as the functional stat for the opposed check. You trigger the Battle Jump by Sudden Leap, which is a swift action Jump check and therefore works with this combination as well. (Note that some negotiation with your DM on what constitutes a 'jump down' may be required, since Battle Jump only applies in those situations.)

Mighty Throw + Battle Jump^UE + Improved Trip^SRD + Jotunbrud^RoF + Stoneblessed 3 (Goliath)^RoS
Same deal but more cheese, since Jotunbrud allows us to be considered 1 size larger as a humanoid, and Stoneblessed allows us to be considered a Goliath for "all effects related to race". As said, Goliaths by dint of their Powerful Build are considered one size larger in opposed checks. (This may be a contentious reading). If accepted, though, this gives us STR +4 (Mighty Throw) +4 (Improved Trip) +12 (Medium -> Large (Jotunbrud) -> Huge (Goliath Powerful Build) -> Colossal (Battle Jump) = +20+STR on opposed check for trip.

Of course, the simplest cheese for all of the X Throw line is basically "Mighty Throw + three dimensions." By RAW the endpoint of your throw under each of these maneuvers can be in midair, even if it's RAI otherwise. As such, just throw the target into midair and watch while it takes falling damage.

Spoiler: Step of the Wind (stance)

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Step of the Wind stance grants bonuses when making or resisting trip and bull rush attempts against foes hindered by difficult terrain - specifically, +2 to attack and +4 on the Str or Dex checks which are part of bull rush or trip. As you'll see from directly above, this has useful applications for all the throw maneuvers in Setting Sun, which key off resolving the throw as a trip attack. So the more relevant question is how one generates difficult terrain, or puts the opponent in it anyway.

Step of the Wind + Earth Devotion^CChamp
Earth Devotion allows you to expend turn attempts to generate a limited amount of difficult terrain as a swift action, which you can put under your opponents, thus opening them up for the bonus that Step of the Wind grants on throws and similar.

Other sources of difficult terrain (credit to Prime32):

• Knight^PHB2
• Deepstone Sentinel^ToB
• Briar Web^SpC (Drd 2, Rgr 2 spell)
• Spore Field^CSco (Drd 1, Rgr 2 spell)
• Vertigo Field^PHB2 (Beguiler 3, Sor/Wiz 3 spell)
• Impeding Stones^CScape (Drd 1, Rgr 1 spell) and Entangle^SRD create difficult terrain in all but name.
• "Rubble, undergrowth, steep slopes, ice, cracked and pitted surfaces, and uneven floors"^{PHB p. 163}

Step of the Wind + Mark of Stygia^FC2 + Sleet Storm^PHB
Inevitability's build in one of the Zinc Saucier contests used this. Total of +6 to attack, +4 to damage, +4 to trip and bull rush checks, and move unimpeded across icy surfaces.

[Saintheart]

Level 2 maneuvers and stances

Spoiler: Baffling Defense (maneuver)

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Baffling Defense + Marshal 1^MinHB + Hardened Criminal^Stormreach + Child of Shadow^ToB(Shadow Hand, Swordsage 1 stance)
Baffling Defense is basically "immediate action on being attacked, replace your AC with a Sense Motive check." (The description is literally the Crane Kick from Karate Kid, lol).
Marshal's Motivate Wisdom aura doubles your Wisdom mod on the Sense Motive check; Hardened Criminal allows you to take 10 on Sense Motive. Child of Shadow stance grants you concealment to give you a last chance if the opponent rolls a natural 20. Other standard abilities aimed at boosting skill checks can be bolted on - this thread basically demonstrates that you can boost the check to +104, albeit with a lot of stuff. 10 + 2xWIS no-roll Sense Motive check isn't bad, and only gets better with skill ranks. Indeed clerics have a solid base of spells to work off here - Guidance of the Avatar for cheese, Divine Insight and so on.

Baffling Defense + Surge of Fortune^CChamp (Cleric 5 spell)
Not as easy to set up since both Baffling Defense and this spell consume an immediate action. However, you can (say) fire Surge of Fortune as your turn ends while awaiting the big beefy bruiser to bash your head in, and then hit Baffling Defense when the opponent attacks you. Surge of Fortune gives your next skill check a natural 20 roll result, which includes Sense Motive. Thus, 20+your Sense Motive ranks+WIS as the result, which should be enough to beat most attack rolls even at high levels.

Spoiler: Clever Positioning (maneuver)

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Clever Positioning + Awl Pike^A&EG (weapon) + Animal Devotion^CChamp
Clever Positioning basically says 'make a melee attack, trade places with the opponent if it fails a Reflex save (DC 12 + your Dex).'
Get flying via Animal Devotion and hit something with the Awl Pike from 15 feet away. If the target fails its Reflex save (which it will because it's a big bruiser), it gets flicked 15 feet into the air while you land safely on the ground. No weight limits, no size restrictions (unlike Trip or Grapple). Target possibly takes an AoO for leaving a threatened square. Pick something appropriately big-looking like an elephant which has a low save and weighs (real world) minimum 4,500 pounds. And it's prone presumably, so you can just take off and do it again when it gets up. More hijinks apply depending how high you can get your Reach and possibly your size.

Clever Positioning + Bloodstorm Blade 2^ToB + Animal Devotion^CChamp + Divine Agility^SpC (Cleric 5)
Similar deal but on steroids. Bloodstorm Blade turns all your melee attacks into ranged attacks, meaning Clever Positioning can be pulled from hundreds of feet away depending how good your throwing arm is.
Divine Agility grants a +10 enhancement bonus to Dex, meaning the save against your move is a minimum DC 17 before your actual Dex mod is added into it.

[Saintheart]

Level 3 maneuvers and stances

Spoiler: Devastating Throw (maneuver)

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Devastating Throw works like Mighty Throw, but:

• You have to move 15 feet to "set up" the throw.
• The target gets thrown 10 feet +5 feet for every 5 by which you win the opposed check
• The target takes 2d6 damage.

So, for a start, see the Mighty Throw maneuver spoiler block above for some suggestions - especially on Battle Jump, which synergises well with the movement requirement.

However, and additionally:
Devastating Throw + Shifting Defense^ToB (Setting Sun 5 Stance, below!) + Elusive Target^CWar + Improved Trip^SRD + Reach weapon
Elusive Target's Cause Overreach technique gives you a free trip attack on an opponent, if (a) you trigger an AoO on moving out of a threatened square and (b) the opponent misses you.
Since an AoO is an "attack", Shifting Defense allows you to 5 foot step to avoid it, consuming an AoO, but also causing the opponent to miss. And therefore giving you a free trip attack on the target.
Get a free trip on a target you pass on the way to starting a Devastating Throw, and then get a free attack on the tripped target before you arrive to start the Devastating Throw on the enemy.
(Credit to StreamoftheSky here who pointed out that Titan Fighting and Elusive Target can work well on big bruisers.)

Devastating Throw + Eilservs School^DoTU + Knowledge Devotion^CChamp
Devastating Throw is the first throw maneuver that adds damage to the throw. Eilservs School adds a straight untyped +5 to attack and "damage rolls" if you're using a magic staff, depending on the number of charges in it. A staff of Light costs 1,500gp and can be wielded like a quarterstaff, which is within Setting Sun's favoured weapons. Anyway, this unqualified +5 stacks with Knowledge Devotion's potential max of +5 for a +10 to all damage rolls under this maneuver, i.e. it's 2d6+10 damage to the target.

Devastating Throw + Knock-Down^S&F
Knock-Down is 3.0 but unupdated and thus still valid: if you do more than 10 points of damage to an opponent in melee, you make a trip attack against the opponent. So at the top end (you would hope), if you do 10 points of damage via Devastating Throw, the target wears a trip attack from you on top of being prone. Cheesy.

Spoiler: Feigned Opening (maneuver)

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Feigned Opening + Robilar's Gambit^PHB2 + Karmic Strike^CWar
Feigned Opening is essentially "if the opponent makes an AoO on you, swift action and two things happen: either the AoO misses, in which case you get an AoO on them; or the AoO hits, in which case your allies get an AoO on them."
Best effect is with a rogue buddy flanking the target. Feigned Opening and Karmic Strike give you -8 to AC and Robilar's Gambit gives the opponent a +4 to attack, so unless something really unexpected happens you're getting a hit on you.
If you're hit: 2 AoOs on the target from Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit, and all your friends get an AoO on the target as well.
If you're not hit: 2 AoOs on the target, from Robilar's Gambit, and Feigned Opening.

Feigned Opening + Robilar's Gambit^PHB2 + Karmic Strike^CWar + Double Hit^MinHB
Expensive to set up with prerequisites, but doubles your attacks.
If you're hit: 4 attacks on the target, from Double Hit giving you 2 attacks for each AoO, and all friends get an AoO on it as well.
If you're not hit: 4 attacks on the target, from Double Hit giving you 2 attacks for each AoO.
Not bad for just trying to take other than a 5 foot step away from the target.

Feigned Opening + Robilar's Gambit^PHB2 + Shifting Defense (stance, Setting Sun 5, below!) + Reach weapon
Shifting Defense is a stance that allows you to move 5 feet every time the opponent attacks you. Feigned Opening is triggered as a swift action before you know the result of an attack. Moving 5 feet before the attack's complete means the attack fails. You get 2 AoOs using your reach weapon: one from Feigned Opening and one from Robilar's Gambit, with no risk of actually getting hit at all.

Spoiler: Giant Killing Style (stance)

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Giant Killing Style + Underfoot Combat^RoTW + Confound the Big Folk^RoTW
Giant Killing Style basically gives +2 to attack and +4 to damage against opponents larger than you.
Confound the Big Folk renders the target flat-footed if it's two sizes larger than you and you're in its space. Underfoot Combat gives you a +4 to AC in the same situation.
Possibly Mighty Throw can also be used in conjunction with Confound the Big Folk's trip maneuver, ask your DM.

[Saintheart]

Level 4 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Comet Throw (maneuver)

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Comet Throw functions as Mighty Throw except as noted, so once again what works on Mighty Throw should work here. However, Comet Throw is distinct from Mighty Throw (and Devastating Throw, interestingly) because it has different effects again:

• No movement prior to the attack required, unlike Devastating Throw.
• 4d6 bonus damage.
• Throw the target 20 feet, +5 feet for every 5 you beat the opposed check by
• Can throw the target into another target, which takes 4d6 damage and gets knocked prone - Reflex save for half damage and stay standing.

Comet Throw does damage, and so the combos for amping damage and using Knock-Down should work here as well. However, since we are actually striking a second target in this maneuver, another combination comes online:

Comet Throw + Freezing the Life Blood^CWar + Contagious Paralysis^LibMort
Freezing the Lifeblood paralyzes your victim. Contagious Paralysis holds that anything touching a target you've paralyzed is itself paralyzed.
Paralyze your victim and throw the target 20', paralyzing the target he hits on the way.
Does require that Freezing the Lifeblood is an (Ex) or (Su) ability, which most feats are held to be by default.

Spoiler: Strike of the Broken Shield (maneuver)

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Strike of the Broken Shield + Festering Anger^BoVD + Cancer Mage 1^BoVD + War Mind 5^SRD
Strike of the Broken Shield is basically "hit the opponent, you do +4d6 damage. Also, if the opponent fails a Reflex DC 14+Str mod save, he's also flat-footed until the start of his next turn."
War Mind 5 has Sweeping Strike which extends that effect to two targets threatening you at once. Two flat-footed opponents are better than one.
The reason for the Festering Anger (a disease) and Cancer Mage level is good old raising your Str mod to stratospheric levels to force the flat-footing.

Bear in mind also that not only is a flat-footed opponent subject to sneak attack, sudden strike, and iaijutsu focus, it also can't make attacks of opportunity - which may or may not synergise with some of the other maneuvers below.

[Saintheart]

Level 5 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Mirrored Pursuit (maneuver)

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Mirrored Pursuit + Overwhelming Assault^PHB2
Mirrored Pursuit is an upgraded form of Stalking Shadow, i.e. stay adjacent to the opponent if he moves away, up to your speed. Paradoxically, though, it's less useful unless you have to stay up close and personal with a target.
Overwhelming Assault says "If the enemy starts a turn adjacent to you, ends a turn still adjacent to you, and doesn't attack you, get a +4 to your attacks next turn."
The ideal would be that you get up next to an enemy undetected, and then they move. Mirrored Pursuit then kicks in, you are adjacent at the end of the creature's turn, and have a +4 on your attacks.

Mirrored Pursuit + Skirmish class feature
The movement from Mirrored Pursuit would count towards the 10' of movement required to activate Skirmish, thus giving you those lovely bonus d6s on your full attack in the next round.

Spoiler: Shifting Defense (stance)

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Shifting Defense + DC 40 Tumble check^OA
Shifting Defense basically is "while you're in this stance, take a 5 foot step every time an opponent attacks you, consuming 1 of your AoOs."
Oriental Adventures says if you make a DC 40 Tumble check, you can take a 10 foot step instead of 5 foot.
Thus, 10 foot steps every time an opponent attacks you, at least while your AoOs hold out.

Shifting Defense+ Sparring Dummy of the Master ^A&EG
Same deal. Sparring Dummy of the Master requires a Monk level or a good UMD check.

Shifting Defense + Press the Advantage^ToB (White Raven, Warblade 5, Crusader 5 stance)
Warning! - only Warblade 20 or Master of Nine can have 2 stances active at once.
That said: same deal, 10 foot step.

Shifting Defense + Evasive Reflexes^ToB + Robilar's Gambit^PHB2
10 foot step on getting attacked. Robilar's Gambit activates on the opponent making an attack, granting an AoO - thus triggering Evasive Reflexes' 5 foot step. Shifting Defense outright grants a 5 foot step on an attack. Arguably Evasive Reflexes does not consume an AoO attempt, which otherwise would make the cost of this 2 AoOs for the 10 feet of movement.

Note each of these grant the 10' of movement required for Skirmish to apply, in the case of Scout and similar.


Shifting Defense + Defensive Throw^CWar+ Combat Reflexes^SRD+ Reach Weapon
Expensive to set up on prerequisites, Defensive Throw says that if an opponent who attacks you misses, you get an immediate trip attack on the target.
Shifting Defense allows you to spend an AoO to take a 5 foot step away, thus causing the opponent's attack to miss.
This activates Defensive Throw, which you use via your Reach weapon - taking a trip attack which uses another AoO.
And since one of the prereqs for Defensive Throw is Improved Trip, you also pick up another free attack on the target on the trip.
This one is from Tleilaxu_Ghola and it's a beauty.


Shifting Defense + Elusive Target^CWar + Improved Trip^SRD + Reach Weapon
See the discussion about Devastating Throw for more, but: as you're wandering around the battlefield during your move action, you might chance to exit an opponent's threatened square. At which point the opponent gets an AoO on you, and which then misses you because Shifting Defense allows you to 5 foot step away from it. Elusive Target then gives you a free trip attack on the opponent, and Improved Trip gives you a free melee attack if the trip comes off. Credit to StreamoftheSky.

Spoiler: Soaring Throw (maneuver)

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Soaring Throw is different again from the other throws below, in that it replicates Mighty Throw's text without saying it function as Mighty Throw.
Salient features:

• Throw opponent up to 20 feet away, +5 feet for every 5 you win the check by.
• Can throw through occupied squares, no AoOs provoked, doesn't damage anything on the way through.
• Do 8d6 damage to the target. This is actually more damage than you do under Ballista Throw down in level 6, and presumably is not a misprint.

So essentially what applies under Mighty Throw and Devastating Throw should apply equally here. See those sections for discussion.

Spoiler: Stalking Shadow (maneuver)

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Stalking Shadow + Thicket of Blades^ToB (Crusader 3 stance)
Stalking Shadow is "immediate action, if opponent adjacent to you moves, take a 5 foot step into the square he just departed."
Thicket of Blades allows you to hit the opponent with an AoO every time they move, Stalking Shadow steps you forward 5 feet so you get another Thicket of Blades AoO on him if he keeps trying to run. And that's on top of the AoO you get on him for leaving a threatened square if he wasn't 5 foot stepping.
Handy if you haven't got a Reach weapon on you at that moment, or you're not feeling like the more obvious Thicket of Blades + Stand Still lockdown trick.

[Saintheart]

Level 6 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Ballista Throw (maneuver)

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Throw the target in a 60' line, doing him 6d6 damage and doing 6d6 damage to anything in the area of the throw. Doesn't mention that any of the other struck targets are knocked down or rendered prone. Doesn't require any movement prior to using the technique. Otherwise just like Mighty Throw.

Here, all of the combos from Mighty Throw, Devastating Throw, and Comet Throw should all function just fine on this: optimise your trip, raise your damage, knock all opponents down, paralyse all targets in a 60' line. See each of those sections for more.

Spoiler: Scorpion Parry (maneuver)

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Scorpion Parry + Robilar's Gambit^CWar+ War Mind 5^SRD
Scorpion Parry says "make an opposed attack roll against the enemy's attack roll, if yours beats his, redirect his attack to another opponent he threatens and which is adjacent to you".
Since the maneuver applies to "attacks", this would include:

• touch attack spells
• any other touch attack
• ranged attacks
• ranged attack spells (albeit those usages are going to be limited since you need another target that your opponent threatens and which is adjacent to you).
• AoOs against you, since Scorpion Parry is an immediate action which can be taken outside your turn.

Anyway, Robilar's Gambit gives you a free attack of opportunity on an attempted strike from an opponent, and the AoO is taken after the enemy's attack is resolved. Sweeping Strike from War Mind 5 allows you to apply the effects of any melee attack you make to 2 adjacent squares you threaten. So if you're being attacked by 2 opponents next to one another, on a Scorpion Parry, the attacker's friend takes two attacks (1 from Scorpion Parry, 1 from Robilar's Gambit from War Mind 5) and the attacker himself takes 1 (Robilar's Gambit).

[Saintheart]

Level 7 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Hydra Slaying Strike (maneuver)

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Yeah, I just don't know with this one. It says "hit an opponent, and it can't take full attacks, but it can do anything else it wants to." I mean, this maneuver doesn't even nerf the hydra it's named after, since hydras can attack with all their heads as a standard action and don't need a full attack. It would be nice against a cheesegrating dragon, except dragons can breathe as a standard action too. It might be handy against all those chaos-beasting Warshapers you've been fighting, but this is a pretty limited case. War Mind 5 might allow you to apply this to two adjacent targets rather than one, but I'm very open to suggestions of all forms of cheese for this.

[Saintheart]

Level 8 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Fool's Strike (maneuver)

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Fool's Strike + Karmic Strike^CWar + Divine Justice^PHB2
Fool's Strike is basically "make an opposed check when an opponent attacks you. If you win, the opponent takes normal damage for his own attack on you."
Thus this combination: take a -4 penalty to AC, but you can attempt to reflect a foe's attack back at them. Whether you succeed or fail, you then get an AoO against them which deals damage equal to their attack's.
Robilar's Gambit^PHB2 can be substituted for Karmic Strike (or combined with it), and grants the foe a damage bonus but makes it harder to parry. Doesn't stack with the Vengeful Spirit^CM feat, but that could be a fun add-on. (Credit to Prime 32 for this one.)

Fool's Strike + Brittleskin^SSouth + Vile Rigidity^BoVD + Cancer Mage 1^BoVD
This combination deals infinite damage to something that attacks you, no save, and you never actually 'attack' or 'hit' the target so defenses like 100% miss chance or instantaneous teleportation presumably won't save them.
Brittleskin is a Drd 3, Rgr 3, Sor/Wiz 3 spell.
Vile Rigidity is a disease that gives natural armor at the cost of Dex.
Don't want to lose Dex? No problem, take the Cancer Mage prestige class which allows you to pick up all the benefits of Vile Rigidity and take none of the disadvantages. This results in infinitely high natural armor. Under a Brittleskin effect you take 1 damage for every point of natural armor you have, therefore taking infinite damage from every hit. Fool's Strike causes an enemy to take damage equal to their normal damage roll result. You need to hit on an opposed check, but at this point mixing in Festering Anger for NI strength should hardly up the level of cheese. (Credit to Inevitability for this cheery little effect.)

Spoiler: Ghostly Defense (stance)

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Ghostly Defense + Cloak Dance^XPH
Ghostly Defense says "if an opponent misses you due to concealment, direct his attack into another opponent you threaten, as with Scorpion Parry."
Cloak Dance, a feat, says "take a move action to grant yourself concealment (or a full-round action for total concealment until your next action)."
Mix with Robilar's Gambit for more fun.
This one is from Tleilaxu_Ghola, not me.

Ghostly Defence + Gloom Razor^ToB + Child of Shadow^ToB (Shadow Hand 1 stance)
Warning: only Master of Nine or a Warblade 20 can hold 2 stances at once. Realistically, this takes a Mo9.
Anyway: Child of Shadow grants concealment on 10 feet of movement. If the enemy's strike misses due to concealment, it gets redirected into another opponent you threaten, and Gloom Razor is triggered to give you a Hide check as a swift action to turn invisible in the next round, thus giving you even more concealment.

[Saintheart]

Level 9 stances and maneuvers

Spoiler: Tornado Throw (maneuver)

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Tornado Throw + Footsteps of the Divine (Cleric 3)^CChamp
You may have heard of this one, which was utterly broken in the TO build Chuck E. Cheese.

Tornado Throw allows you, as a full-round action, to throw an opponent around the battlefield, including multiple times against the same target if you like, every 10 feet. The further you move during the round, the more bonuses you get to the trip check that powers the throw, the further you can hurl the target, and the more damage it does to the target. Footsteps of the Divine allows you to discharge the spell for +10 feet of movement for every round then remaining in the spell. Which means your movement goes stratospherically high for the one round of Tornado Throw, thus boosting everything significant about Tornado Throw: the trip check, the throw distance, and the bonus damage done.

At a mere Caster Level 10, our spell's duration is 10 rounds. Discharging it in 1 round results in a bog-standard human getting a movement speed of 9 x 10 = 90 + 30 = 120 feet of movement, giving us 240 feet of movement in the whole round. This translates to a +120 bonus to the trip check, a throwing distance of about 100 feet or so give or take, and bonus damage of about 20d6 or so on the throw. If it's all expended on one target. Which it doesn't have to be.

Chuck E. Cheese keyed off Footsteps of the Divine having Persistent Spell metamagic applied to it. It fit all the requirements. The spell's duration therefore became 24 hours, which is to say, 10 x 60 x 24 = 14,400 rounds. Which meant if you discharged it before using Tornado Throw, it gave you a speed of about 144,000 feet, translating to 288,000 feet worth of movement in the round, giving you a +115,200 bonus to your trip check against a single target, allowing you to throw the target about 115,200 feet or so, imposing about 115,000d6 in damage. That's just the quick and dirty calculation before you started adding the other stuff Chuck E. Cheese added to it. Sadly, Chuck is also known as "The Build WoTC nerfed", because Complete Champion was errated after it came out: Footsteps of the Divine's wording was altered to remove it from the category of spells that could be Persisted.

It's still a very strong combination, though. Persistent Spell doesn't apply to Footsteps of the Divine, but Extend Spell does. Which even on the example above thereby doubles the damage that can be done.


Tornado Throw + Quicksilver Motion (Diamond Mind 7 boost) + Absolute Steel (Iron Heart 3 stance):
The less cheesy version, all from within ToB, and yes they do all lock together because Quicksilver Motion is a swift action boost.
Quicksilver Motion gives you an extra move, then with a 30 foot base speed, your round goes: move 40, move 10, make a trip at + 20, move 10, make a throw at + 24, move 10, make a throw at + 28, move 10, make a throw at + 32, move 10, make a throw at +36, move 10, make a throw at +40, move 10, make a throw at + 44, move 10, make a throw at + 48. For even more fun throw in the Jotenbrud feat and Improved Trip for a +8 to all your trip checks. Also, Sphinx Claws grant a 1 + 1 x Essentia bonus to strength checks, which may be helpful.


Tornado Throw + Shifting Defense^ToB (Setting Sun 5 stance) + Improved Trip^SRD + Elusive Target^CWar
Use that massive movement allowance to run around the battlefield picking up free trip attacks as you leave threatened spaces and avoid the resulting AoOs using Shifting Defense. Credit to Streamofthesky here.

[Saintheart]

Spare box





... that's it, take it away guys! (Happy to receive thoughts in here rather than in the 'workshop' thread, I'll close that one down soon.)

[Inevitability]

Counter Charge + Cometary Collision

Ready an action to charge a foe who charges someone (this initial target needn't be you!). When they charge, your readied action goes off and you move towards them, attack with a big bonus, and block their path to their initial target.

At this point, they get to choose to 'charge' you instead, and probably will... letting you use your immediate action to throw up Counter Charge and potentially negate the attack entirely. Even if the counter fails, the target still isn't getting the normal charge bonuses against you.

End result: a foe who was going to smash your squishiest ally instead got hit for a solid chunk of damage, lost a turn, and is now 10 feet away in a direction advantageous to you. On your turn, you can then 5 ft. step to full attack if necessary, move away and ready another Cometary Collision, or just move over to some other foe.


Also, I'd like to draw attention to the Albida build at the bottom of my extended sig, which makes use of Step of the Wind to augment a Mark of Stygia/Sleet Storm strategy.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Setting Sun is so conflicting for me... In order to function as intended, you need the DM to allow you to ignore the size limits on tripping when using it (or at least dex-based throws) which not all will do. And it just feels like it'd be far more useful on a full BAB more-martial class like Warblade, but it's trapped in Swordsage and the super-niche Shadow Sun Ninja as the only avenues to gain it as a class skill (outside of homebrew).
But I love the *idea* of it...

Anyway, if your DM does ignore the "you can only trip creatures of 1 size larger than you or less" rule, then...

Titan Fighting feat (whisper gnome probably being the best race for it) + Elusive Target tactical feat (specifically Cause Overreach) makes for a really solid "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" build to use with a Setting Sun thrower. Why settle for dozens of tornado throws on the boss, when you can trip + attack (improved trip) all of his minions around as you're dashing around infinite-juggling him, too?
(and of course it's usable w/ all of the less-crazy lower level standard action throws for your move action, too).

Not even sure how to handle "combos" w/ the throws.... there's so many "zone of suck" battlefield control AoE spells that it's super handy to be able to toss foes back into whenever they have the gall to crawl their way out of them.

[Saintheart]

Counter Charge + Cometary Collision

Ready an action to charge a foe who charges someone (this initial target needn't be you!). When they charge, your readied action goes off and you move towards them, attack with a big bonus, and block their path to their initial target.

At this point, they get to choose to 'charge' you instead, and probably will... letting you use your immediate action to throw up Counter Charge and potentially negate the attack entirely. Even if the counter fails, the target still isn't getting the normal charge bonuses against you.

End result: a foe who was going to smash your squishiest ally instead got hit for a solid chunk of damage, lost a turn, and is now 10 feet away in a direction advantageous to you. On your turn, you can then 5 ft. step to full attack if necessary, move away and ready another Cometary Collision, or just move over to some other foe.


Also, I'd like to draw attention to the Albida build at the bottom of my extended sig, which makes use of Step of the Wind to augment a Mark of Stygia/Sleet Storm strategy.

Much appreciated on all of that - it's all in there now and added!

Titan Fighting feat (whisper gnome probably being the best race for it) + Elusive Target tactical feat (specifically Cause Overreach) makes for a really solid "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" build to use with a Setting Sun thrower. Why settle for dozens of tornado throws on the boss, when you can trip + attack (improved trip) all of his minions around as you're dashing around infinite-juggling him, too?
(and of course it's usable w/ all of the less-crazy lower level standard action throws for your move action, too).

Agreed, and added in - thanks very much for that!

[Prime32]

You trigger the Battle Jump by Sudden Leap, which is a swift action Jump check and therefore works with this combination as well.

Battle Jump is much more situational than it looks; it triggers when jumping down, which is a separate usage of the Jump skill from just jumping towards an opponent. Potentially a winged character could do it by flying over an opponent and intentionally stalling in midair, but there are bonuses for charging while flying anyway (it's also unclear whether raptorans and dragonborn can do this due to the "fall safely" part of their Glide ability).

Same deal but more cheese, since Jotunbrud allows us to be considered 1 size larger as a humanoid, and Stoneblessed allows us to be considered a Goliath for "all effects related to race". As said, Goliaths by dint of their Powerful Build are considered one size larger in opposed checks. Thus giving us STR +4 (Mighty Throw) +4 (Improved Trip) +12 (Medium -> Large (Jotunbrud) -> Huge (Goliath Powerful Build) -> Colossal (Battle Jump) = +20+STR on opposed check for trip.

Two issues here:

First is that Jotunbrud doesn't make you 1 size larger, it specifically makes you Large.

Second is that Stoneblessed only causes things to interact with you as if you were a member of the chosen race, and spells out what this means (prereqs, favored enemy, magic item use, etc.). Dwarf stoneblessed even get the Stonecunning ability on top of counting as a dwarf, which is impossible if the same ability was already granting them all dwarf racial traits. What Stoneblessed does allow is taking the 1st level goliath barbarian racial substitution level, which increases your size to Large while raging, but the only reason to do that over a Goliath is if you're Small or using it qualify for War Hulk (so that No Time to Think only applies while raging).

[Saintheart]

Battle Jump is much more situational than it looks; it triggers when jumping down, which is a separate usage of the Jump skill from just jumping towards an opponent. Potentially a winged character could do it by flying over an opponent and intentionally stalling in midair, but there are bonuses for charging while flying anyway (it's also unclear whether raptorans and dragonborn can do this due to the "fall safely" part of their Glide ability).


Two issues here:

First is that Jotunbrud doesn't make you 1 size larger, it specifically makes you Large.

Second is that Stoneblessed only causes things to interact with you as if you were a member of the chosen race, and spells out what this means (prereqs, favored enemy, magic item use, etc.). Dwarf stoneblessed even get the Stonecunning ability on top of counting as a dwarf, which is impossible if the same ability was already granting them all dwarf racial traits. What Stoneblessed does allow is taking the 1st level goliath barbarian racial substitution level, which increases your size to Large while raging, but the only reason to do that over a Goliath is if you're Small or using it qualify for War Hulk (so that No Time to Think only applies while raging).

On these I'll add some notes indicating they might be contentious. Some in my view are arguable. For example: Stoneblessed does not say it only causes things to interact with you as if you were a Goliath, unless there is an errata I missed. It outright says "for all effects related to race, a stoneblessed is considered a member of the race to which she is bonded." It then says "for example," which by definition means it is not an exhaustive list. Just because dwarf stoneblessed accidentally receive a redundant feature as a result does not invalidate the interpretation, there's a lot of stupid redundancies in WoTC's rules across the board.

The question isn't "does Stoneblessed give someone all the racial traits", the question is "is a Goliath treated differently for a game effect, where 'game effect' is not a fully defined term and which could conceivably include an opposed check?" The answer is arguably yes: Goliaths are deemed a size larger when it's advantageous to them. That arguably translates through to a Stoneblessed.

[Inevitability]

On these I'll add some notes indicating they might be contentious. Some in my view are arguable. For example: Stoneblessed does not say it only causes things to interact with you as if you were a Goliath, unless there is an errata I missed. It outright says "for all effects related to race, a stoneblessed is considered a member of the race to which she is bonded." It then says "for example," which by definition means it is not an exhaustive list. Just because dwarf stoneblessed accidentally receive a redundant feature as a result does not invalidate the interpretation, there's a lot of stupid redundancies in WoTC's rules across the board.

The question isn't "does Stoneblessed give someone all the racial traits", the question is "is a Goliath treated differently for a game effect, where 'game effect' is not a fully defined term and which could conceivably include an opposed check?" The answer is arguably yes: Goliaths are deemed a size larger when it's advantageous to them. That arguably translates through to a Stoneblessed.

The language of "considered X for effects related to race" is not exclusive to stoneblessed - we see it in the PHB, of all places, in the entries for half-elves and half-orcs. Do all half-orc PCs have light sensitivity, since for all effects related to race, they're orcs? Do half-elves have innate proficiency with longbows, and if they do, then why did the DMG introduce a 'half-human elf' who explicitly gets this proficiency? Is human heritage a feat that immediately grants you a bonus feat?

Doing better in grapples isn't an 'effect' of being a goliath - it's a consequence of a racial trait that goliaths typically possess. A dustform incarnate construct goliath, or a dragonborn goliath, would have lost this racial trait, but would still be a goliath, would still qualify for the Mountain Rage ACF or the Dawncaller class, would still be affected by a weapon that deals extra damage to goliaths. Goliath-hood is a transcendent identity that goes beyond racial features, which is why it's so silly to argue that Stoneblessed gives you the latter when it says you get the former.

[Prime32]

Do half-elves have innate proficiency with longbows, and if they do, then why did the DMG introduce a 'half-human elf' who explicitly gets this proficiency?

More than that...

+1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. [...] Half-elves have keen senses, but not as keen as those of an elf.
[...]
Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf. Half-elves, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect elves as their elf ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by elves.

You're arguing that "half-elves have worse senses than elves" actually means they have better senses than elves (since racial bonuses stack).