Junkyard Wars XLVI: Weapon Specialization + Bonded Weapon - Fighter (VOTING OPEN)

[quetzalcoatl5]

There were some really great builds this round!

I'm kind of floored that I tied for first as I haven't gotten a medal before. Thank you to AMFV for judging and honoring me. I've been on these forums competing since almost exactly 1 year ago and this was a huge boost after so many less successful attempts.

My one surprise was no Wild Cohort feat on Cu Chulainn to depict the Irish Wolfhound, but that's only a thing for me because I'm obsessed with those dogs! They're SO big!

This was a really fun contest and. I look forward to the next!

Oh! Does anyone know why the pictures disappeared from some of the posts?

[loky1109]

Oh! Does anyone know why the pictures disappeared from some of the posts?

Alfred's portrait no longer exists in the place I found it. Don't know why.

[AMFV]

With no further disputes incoming, I do believe we've reached the end of this round! Congratulations to Tohron and FactualArcher, and especially to Loky and Quetzacoatl!

Congrats all! It was a really good contest, the entries were fun. I'm a little sad that mine didn't work out, but that's sometimes just the way it is.

I'll keep voting open for a view more days just in case someone else wants to get a vote in: you needn't have participated this round!

I'm really hoping Easy Bake Drake wins! I have a really cool idea for it!

[FactualArcher]

As promised, here's some after the reveal comments:

Congrats on the first gold, Quetzalcoatl, that's super exciting. I really liked Ellay Hol. Congrats to Loki as well- I had no idea that the weapon system you were using even existed, so that was a total surprise.

Quetzalcoat, from my research Cu was just called the "Hound of Culainn" and didn't actually have a dog. I could definitely be wrong, but that's why I didn't take wild cohort.

And some judging comments-

I'm really glad that you liked the Heretic of the Faith+Wrath domain combo. I thought it was the best of the gish domains for Cu, and I'm glad you agreed.

You were also definitely right about the Knight dip- I only realized Warblade didn't have ride pretty late in the build process so that was the best idea I had to qualify for Kensai on time.

I also wondered what you thought about the Death by Thorns+Smiting Spell combo. That was a big part of the build for me because it really did feel like a last ditch dangerous technique that was also quite deadly, though I know it wasn't an integral part of the weapon.

Finally, I wondered if you had any suggestions to improve Cu since you mentioned there was some room for improvement in your jdging.

Anyways, thanks for your judging and I'm glad you liked the build.

[loky1109]

Congrats for all medalists and especially for quetzalcoatl!
Thanks AMFV for judging and Inevitability for chairing!

I'm really hoping Easy Bake Drake wins! I have a really cool idea for it!

Yeah, I have one, too! )

[AMFV]

I'm really glad that you liked the Heretic of the Faith+Wrath domain combo. I thought it was the best of the gish domains for Cu, and I'm glad you agreed.

For sure! I had actually not thought about "Heretic of the Faith" as a build tool or seen it used before. Although maybe it's become common now. But it's a very nice tool. I mean War works really well in general because you can grab the War Devotion feat and do great things. Especially on a Divine Crusader. It's a good gimmick!

You were also definitely right about the Knight dip- I only realized Warblade didn't have ride pretty late in the build process so that was the best idea I had to qualify for Kensai on time.

And to be fair that's only an issue if we're talking a build competition where elegance is strongly valued. I would say that in a normal setting that's not that big a deal. Honestly the solution for the build competition would have probably been to more neatly split your levels. Because you're already getting Weapon Specialization from DC you don't need Warblade levels to qualify for it. So you could probably do like some split for Knight that would give you better maneuver access and make the ride a little smoother. Like maybe Warblade 1/Knight 2 - 4 or something. Although that's rough to work into the build. I'd have to think on it more. But generally 1 level dips are not that big a deal outside of the context of a build competition that penalizes them.

I also wondered what you thought about the Death by Thorns+Smiting Spell combo. That was a big part of the build for me because it really did feel like a last ditch dangerous technique that was also quite deadly, though I know it wasn't an integral part of the weapon.

I generally don't factor or value "tricks" that you get at 18th level. Like sure they're good, but it's 18th level. What you're competing with is very good. And you're already ahead on power by a country mile. You have 9th level spells.

Finally, I wondered if you had any suggestions to improve Cu since you mentioned there was some room for improvement in your jdging.

Like I said earlier, if you're trying to improve it for scoring purposes more levels of knight. Possibly drop the second level of Kensai, as people tend to view PrC dips less negatively than class dips. Take DC a level earlier (you can still pick Heretic at level 9 you just have one level of a different domain). Take some Martial Study feats so that you continue your martial stuff later just to make it feel like a more contiguous character. Maybe see if there's some way to cram turning on there so you can RKV... which really can work well there. It's a pretty solid build though. Like there were a few tiny elegance things.

Also it's important to note that what makes a build good for judging isn't necessarily the things that make it fun to play.

Anyways, thanks for your judging and I'm glad you liked the build.

Being honest outside of judging criteria yours was probably my favorite. I liked it a lot. The other two were also really good and better by criteria, but yours had a lot of personality that I really liked.

[Inevitability]

For sure! I had actually not thought about "Heretic of the Faith" as a build tool or seen it used before. Although maybe it's become common now. But it's a very nice tool. I mean War works really well in general because you can grab the War Devotion feat and do great things. Especially on a Divine Crusader. It's a good gimmick!

I've used it a few times; on Trox to get a weapon upgrade in the same breath as a qualification feat (which is a clever trick but not super essential to the character), and on ILITNOMTSTCBSC to make the alignment shenanigans (which required being Evil but worshipping Torm) work at all. It's a fun feat, definitely undervalued, almost always a very competitive alternative to EWP on cleric builds (change deity's favored weapon to whatever you want, then switch one of your domains to War so you get free Weapon Proficiency + Weapon Focus in the chosen weapon).

I think quite a few people used it in the Divine Agent round of IC as well, given how domain-centric that one was, but I thought it was so obvious that I deliberately made an effort to avoid it.

[quetzalcoatl5]

Quetzalcoat, from my research Cu was just called the "Hound of Culainn" and didn't actually have a dog. I could definitely be wrong, but that's why I didn't take wild cohort.

Totally fair! Wasn't attacking the build, just noting my surprise. Partially this is because he's usually depicted with a hound, and partially because my understanding was that the "Cu" prefix is for warriors who fight with wolfhounds (and that could totally be BS from a tourist trap when I visited Ireland), but really it's because I was introduced to the character through Gargoyles where Bronx was the reincarnation of a hound who fought beside Cu Culainn. You are totally correct that the actual lore doesn't include a dog!

[quetzalcoatl5]

Also, I just wanted to say that this was the best lineup since Smite + Mounted Combat - Paladin! Absolutely dope takes!

[Inevitability]

Votes:

Spoiler

Show

Easy-Bake Drake: 2 votes, 1 judge vote

Jack of Two Trades: 2 votes

Takes Two To Tango: 1 vote, 1 judge vote

Flexible Morals: 2 votes

Wood Between the World: 2 votes

Lie of the land: 1 judge vote

Making the winner Easy-Bake Drake! New round up... now!

[Nikorasuko]

Weapon specialization is a feat that has fighter level 4th in it's requirements. So I have a question. If I were to make a rogue with the alternative class feature for fighter bonus feats would that be effectively the same as being able to take weapon specialization at 4th level like a normal fighter would?

[Inevitability]

Weapon specialization is a feat that has fighter level 4th in it's requirements. So I have a question. If I were to make a rogue with the alternative class feature for fighter bonus feats would that be effectively the same as being able to take weapon specialization at 4th level like a normal fighter would?

The 'fighter level 4' requirement is completely unrelated to any class feature. Consider similar examples like clerics with Initiate feats or paladins with Celestial Mount, neither of which corresponds to a particular class feature.

You'll notice that the fighter bonus feat class feature simply says:

At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Nothing here says anything about qualifying for special fighter feats, because the class feature isn't the source of fighters being able to take Weapon Specialization. Obtaining the class feature without being a fighter would do nothing for you, and a bonus feat rogue would not be a valid source of Weapon Specialization.

[AMFV]

Weapon specialization is a feat that has fighter level 4th in it's requirements. So I have a question. If I were to make a rogue with the alternative class feature for fighter bonus feats would that be effectively the same as being able to take weapon specialization at 4th level like a normal fighter would?

It's also worth building that the contest is officially over. Not that you can't theory craft or anything, but if you were planning on submitting an entry it's done and we're on to the easy bake Dragon one now

[Nikorasuko]

It's also worth building that the contest is officially over. Not that you can't theory craft or anything, but if you were planning on submitting an entry it's done and we're on to the easy bake Dragon one now

I'm aware. Just curious.

[Tohron]

A few concluding thoughts - I definitely spent too long working out John's item loadout - it started as an exercise to figure out how high you could get buffs for a melee loadout while stacking every useful buff spell that wasn't blatantly evil and was 7th level or lower, and whether craft cost reduction feats + giving Corona her own equipment would enable him to afford everything (the answer was basically yes).

I was surprised by the power of the Hunter's Mercy + Blood in the Water combo and the Arrowstorm + range extension combo. Wasn't expecting to make a character who could solo an army in one round.