Fallout official trailer

[Rodin]

I may be strange, but I probably would watch a fully episodic post-apocalyptic TV show. The Fallout universe would work really well for that, in fact. Do each game as a separate season, but instead of following the Lone Wanderer follow an ensemble cast. Fallout 1 would be based out of Shady Sands, Junktown, or the Boneyard, and each week either something threatens their settlement or they venture out into the Mojave and discover something. Do an old-fashioned 20+ episode season to let the show breathe and escalate to a finale with the Master in the final few episodes.

An episodic format would allow you to rotate through genres. An episode dealing with the raiders plaguing Shady Sands would play like a Western or maybe Mad Max. A later episode could be horror focused and simply titled "Deathclaw".

Nobody but me would want this though, and certainly not the modern screenwriters who always have to fit everything into a 10-12 episode series.

[warty goblin]

An episodic style could absolutely work for Fallout, Star Trek Strange New Worlds is episodic and also fantastic. But if anything episodic shows depend even more heavily on character interaction because the plot gets basically wrapped up at the end of every episode. Aside from the occasional two-parter or season finale, you aren't gonna be excited for the next installment because you need to know what plot thing happens next, but because you're invested in the characters.

Which kinda means you need a very strong, drama generating core cast, quite possibly am ensemble. CRPGs aren't written this way, because the purpose of companions isn't to be co-main characters, but to give you cool people telling you how awesome you are and provide some more fun stuff to do.

[Rodin]

An episodic style could absolutely work for Fallout, Star Trek Strange New Worlds is episodic and also fantastic. But if anything episodic shows depend even more heavily on character interaction because the plot gets basically wrapped up at the end of every episode. Aside from the occasional two-parter or season finale, you aren't gonna be excited for the next installment because you need to know what plot thing happens next, but because you're invested in the characters.

Which kinda means you need a very strong, drama generating core cast, quite possibly am ensemble. CRPGs aren't written this way, because the purpose of companions isn't to be co-main characters, but to give you cool people telling you how awesome you are and provide some more fun stuff to do.

I feel like we’re arguing on the same side of this. There isn’t a strong main character so they can either try to make one (what they appear to be doing) or go with an ensemble cast.

The problem is that Hollywoods record with main characters for video game movies is spotty at best. Their ability to come up with compelling plots in video game worlds is worse. So I would be much more optimistic if they were doing a “Tales of the Wasteland” style anthology show that let’s different writers do single episodes while leading into the existing world building heavily.

[Darth Credence]

If I were to make a Fallout show, I would absolutely go with the anthology idea, but I'd also focus much more on the vaults. I want to watch Vault 12 slowly become the Necropolis, or the elections of Vault 11. Heck, I'd love an episode about Vault 43, with 20 men, 10 women, and a panther. Make 100 episodes about 100 vaults.

[t209]

Well, *sigh*
Turned out that Fallout TV series might be Fallout 5, according to Todd Howard.
Wish it had been both standalone in terms of both narrative and even lore
Also funny that director wanted Vaults as metaphors of have and have nots…which Vaults in the game itself might have been scars of corporate corruption especially when the Vault themselves were not built for survival in mind to the point that many of the malfunctions were kinda deliberate as part of experiments (though not sure if it was added for Fallout 2 or planned all along. I prefer to think that failed Vault was supposed to be result of Vault Tec cutting corners or covering up mismanagements while making profits from government bonds and customers but Black Isle wanted Enclave to be nefarious main villain and added vault experiments).

[Darth Credence]

The Fallout TV series is Fallout 5 just means that it is a new story that is not a repeat of the games. The actual Fallout 5 when it comes out will not be the same story as this show, either. They specifically were not allowed to do things already planned for the game.

[t209]

The Fallout TV series is Fallout 5 just means that it is a new story that is not a repeat of the games. The actual Fallout 5 when it comes out will not be the same story as this show, either. They specifically were not allowed to do things already planned for the game.

Yeah, I was confused if TV Series will be on its own continuity rather than part of game’s universe. Mostly after Civilization Ex’s video for the show…which felt odd since LA (while devastated) is under NCR control along with Gunrunners establishing it as main industrial hub. Or just Todd Howard at it again.

[Lemmy]

(...) Also funny that director wanted Vaults as metaphors of have and have nots…which Vaults in the game itself might have been scars of corporate corruption especially when the Vault themselves were not built for survival in mind to the point that many of the malfunctions were kinda deliberate as part of experiments (though not sure if it was added for Fallout 2 or planned all along. (...)

Ah... Social commentary...

Considering the level of "talent" modern Hollywood has going for it, I'm sure it'll be very subtle, nuanced and insightful... And not at all an incredibly shallow and in-your-face take that makes the message so obnoxious it ends up having an effect opposite from the intended.

[t209]

Ah... Social commentary...

Considering the level of "talent" modern Hollywood has going for it, I'm sure it'll be very subtle, nuanced and insightful... And not at all an incredibly shallow and in-your-face take that makes the message so obnoxious it ends up having an effect opposite from the intended.

Ironically, Fallout seems to do better at that. Maybe make Bethesda games look good by comparison.
Or on flip side, taking tongue-in-cheek at face value (like Liberty Prime’s quote being irony on its contradictory messages and being targeted against Enclave, who are symbol of pre-War Fallout America…mostly warts, or the optimistic advertisement being juxtaposition with journals on its seedier side and wasteland).
New Vegas seems to do that better. Like NCR plot line involved dysfunctional command structure, wealth inequality (at least storylines involving Baron Brahmin and Caravan tycoons), and maybe anything involving Mr House and Followers of the Apocalypse.
Like I said, entire Vault Tec and concept of Vault can be taken as commentary of profiteering and deregulation (though not sure Vault experiments was planned at first, but kinda fits with idea that Vaults are not made for survival but much as for profits.)

[Rynjin]

Yeah, Fallout has never done subtle. Subtle is kind of anathema to the whole theme.

Vaults being a commentary on the "haves and have nots" isn't entirely accurate IMO but also isn't far enough off to be a worrying interpretation. Vault-Tec were corporate immorality personified, to the point that they deliberately accelerated the descent to the apocalypse in order to sell more stuff. In general they are a commentary on the shortsightedness of corporations: profit now matters, the future doesn't.

The Vaults are a logical extension of that, and were mostly used as experiments. The control Vaults being safe was mostly a coincidence; they needed controls to compare the experiments against.

BUT it IS true that the control Vaults were typically filled with those who could afford to buy spaces in them. It's just not true that they were SOLELY filled with those people, and there was zero guarantee that being rich and/or famous meant you weren't being experimented on (see Vault 114).

Buuut it also does seem like the rich people Vaults typically trended towards the experiments being more socially oriented than physically. They were likely to remain safe, but...annoyed.

It's not an awful interpretation by any means. Just not perfect IMO.

[Lemmy]

I don't think they are even skilled enough to do over-the-top commentary right... Even that requires some thought.

More likely, they'll just do an incredibly simplistic and juvenile take, believe it to be incredibly clever and subtle, then pat themselves on the back... And probably then attack any viewers that point out the flaws in their reasoning (or the way they presented it).

That's how little confidence I have in modern Hollywood...

[t209]

Or depending on viewers.
Either legitimate one or one who only remember the cool parts but not aware of its context (Liberty Prime for example), or ignore that entire franchise’s message is about dangers of nostalgia (either journals of pre-War world’s skeevy side and most who wanted or represented those ideals aren’t shown in good light, like Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel).
Still, I agree that it might not capture Fallout’s “Dr. Strangelove meets A Boy and His Dog plus Mad Max” dark comedy satire tone. Especially director not understanding Vault itself being prime example of social commentary…at least “try to profit off with mediocre products” (like there are good Vaults…but one Vault didn’t have proper radiation shielding, other had too many guns but little security storage, and other one had poor lighting systems. Most of them being too much of a coincidence to be corner cutting.)

[Dargaron]

Vaults being a commentary on the "haves and have nots" isn't entirely accurate IMO but also isn't far enough off to be a worrying interpretation. Vault-Tec were corporate immorality personified, to the point that they deliberately accelerated the descent to the apocalypse in order to sell more stuff. In general they are a commentary on the shortsightedness of corporations: profit now matters, the future doesn't.

TBH, and this might just be my ignorance on display (I only played 3, NV and 4), but I was under the impression that nearly everybody's ancestors (except for pre-war ghouls, naturally) were vault dwellers at some point, and the postapocalyptic tribes you run into are just people whose vaults opened earlier: either because they became uninhabitable or just because the inhabitants left ahead of schedule.

Like how the Boomers were folks from the Second Amendment vault that left when the overseer put restrictions on the armory, or how the Khans, Jackels and Vipers were ultimately from Vault 15, or how New Vegas is populated by Vault 21.

Main exceptions being the BoS and Enclave who survived in non-Vault bunkers.

[Errorname]

Vaults being a commentary on the "haves and have nots" isn't entirely accurate IMO but also isn't far enough off to be a worrying interpretation. Vault-Tec were corporate immorality personified, to the point that they deliberately accelerated the descent to the apocalypse in order to sell more stuff. In general they are a commentary on the shortsightedness of corporations: profit now matters, the future doesn't.

It's also pretty close to the vibe of Vault City from Fallout 2.

TBH, and this might just be my ignorance on display (I only played 3, NV and 4), but I was under the impression that nearly everybody's ancestors (except for pre-war ghouls, naturally) were vault dwellers at some point, and the postapocalyptic tribes you run into are just people whose vaults opened earlier: either because they became uninhabitable or just because the inhabitants left ahead of schedule.

Nope. Lot of people survived the war who weren't in vaults.

[Talakeal]

TBH, and this might just be my ignorance on display (I only played 3, NV and 4), but I was under the impression that nearly everybody's ancestors (except for pre-war ghouls, naturally) were vault dwellers at some point, and the postapocalyptic tribes you run into are just people whose vaults opened earlier: either because they became uninhabitable or just because the inhabitants left ahead of schedule.

Like how the Boomers were folks from the Second Amendment vault that left when the overseer put restrictions on the armory, or how the Khans, Jackels and Vipers were ultimately from Vault 15, or how New Vegas is populated by Vault 21.

Main exceptions being the BoS and Enclave who survived in non-Vault bunkers.

That is an interesting question.

I know Tandi says that most families in Shady Sands originally came from Vault 15, and there are Vaults near most of the major settlements you encounter, but I think most communities don't really have an origin story beyond something simple like squatting in the ruins of a pre-war city or being post war trading posts / mining boom towns. It would be interesting to see some examples of people who survived outside of a vault / bunker without being mutated, but I can't recall any.

Nope. Lot of people survived the war who weren't in vaults.

This is almost certainly true, but I can't think of any examples. You got any?

[Darth Credence]

This is almost certainly true, but I can't think of any examples. You got any?

The White Legs?

[Talakeal]

The White Legs?

Ah yes. Zion. Good example!

Yeah, we know that the native tribes there were a tour group from the (presumably Navajo) reservation in AZ that was stranded in the park when the war broke out, and the old man in the caves whose logs you read certainly describes other survivors who lived in the valley without the protection of Vaults or the like.

[LibraryOgre]

Ah yes. Zion. Good example!

Yeah, we know that the native tribes there were a tour group from the (presumably Navajo) reservation in AZ that was stranded in the park when the war broke out, and the old man in the caves whose logs you read certainly describes other survivors who lived in the valley without the protection of Vaults or the like.

Might also be the tribe the Chosen One was from, though there's no evidence either way; if they were from a Vault, it was a few generations ago (long enough that, aside from the Vault Dweller, they didn't really talk about anyone from the Vault, and they had a "temple of the ancients" that didn't seem to be a converted pre-war building... they'd been there a while.)

[Rodin]

Yeah, Fallout has never done subtle. Subtle is kind of anathema to the whole theme.

Vaults being a commentary on the "haves and have nots" isn't entirely accurate IMO but also isn't far enough off to be a worrying interpretation. Vault-Tec were corporate immorality personified, to the point that they deliberately accelerated the descent to the apocalypse in order to sell more stuff. In general they are a commentary on the shortsightedness of corporations: profit now matters, the future doesn't.

The Vaults are a logical extension of that, and were mostly used as experiments. The control Vaults being safe was mostly a coincidence; they needed controls to compare the experiments against.

BUT it IS true that the control Vaults were typically filled with those who could afford to buy spaces in them. It's just not true that they were SOLELY filled with those people, and there was zero guarantee that being rich and/or famous meant you weren't being experimented on (see Vault 114).

Buuut it also does seem like the rich people Vaults typically trended towards the experiments being more socially oriented than physically. They were likely to remain safe, but...annoyed.

It's not an awful interpretation by any means. Just not perfect IMO.

I've never liked the "Vaults as experiments" thing. When humanity's survival is at stake, setting up 90% of the places humanity is meant to survive as places where they almost certainly won't is cartoonishly stupid that breaks my suspension of disbelief.

The Vaults failing due to shortsighted costcutting, on the other hand, is all too believable. As is the wealthy being the ones who get in.

I'd have preferred if most of the Vaults failed because cooping up a few thousand people in an underground bunker for a few hundred years is a good way for them to all go crazy and kill each other. Or have other reasons, like that Vault in New Vegas that's filled with killer plants - a Vault needs a better food solution, so they experiment on their plants, and things go to hell. It's not that hard to come up with naturalistic reasons to explain why each Vault wound up in the exact same state they did in the game without the sinister plot to screw over humanity in the name of SCIENCE!

[Rynjin]

I've never liked the "Vaults as experiments" thing. When humanity's survival is at stake, setting up 90% of the places humanity is meant to survive as places where they almost certainly won't is cartoonishly stupid that breaks my suspension of disbelief.

The whole setting is cartoonishly stupid, that's kinda half the point. It's a post-apocalypse story filtered through the lens of 50's sci-fi, which was for the most part really dumb.

Plus TBH I'll believe literally anything of a corporation. The same thing on a larger, slower scale is already happening IRL with climate change.

[Grim Portent]

I've never liked the "Vaults as experiments" thing. When humanity's survival is at stake, setting up 90% of the places humanity is meant to survive as places where they almost certainly won't is cartoonishly stupid that breaks my suspension of disbelief.

The Vaults failing due to shortsighted costcutting, on the other hand, is all too believable. As is the wealthy being the ones who get in.

I'd have preferred if most of the Vaults failed because cooping up a few thousand people in an underground bunker for a few hundred years is a good way for them to all go crazy and kill each other. Or have other reasons, like that Vault in New Vegas that's filled with killer plants - a Vault needs a better food solution, so they experiment on their plants, and things go to hell. It's not that hard to come up with naturalistic reasons to explain why each Vault wound up in the exact same state they did in the game without the sinister plot to screw over humanity in the name of SCIENCE!

The idea behind them being experiments is that they weren't actually meant to keep humanity alive, they were meant to provide data for the Enclave (which includes some of the upper levels of Vault-Tec) to use while establishing an off-world colony, in particular with regards to controlling the lower ranking members of the colony, maximising work hours without increasing rewards, stress testing society for rebellion points, that sort of authoritarian nightmare stuff. Can't remember if the colony was meant to be on the moon or Mars right now. All the normal Vaults were experimental controls, had overseers who refused to participate in the experiment, or were lucky to have experiments so minor they weren't even noticed.

For one reason or another Vault-Tec and the Enclave decided the whole 'run away from our mistakes into space' plan wasn't workable after having already gotten most of the way finished, I think they couldn't get the tech to actually get off planet working or something, and pivoted to the plans that they wound up enacting on Earth, some of which did use data taken from Vault-Tec experiments for things like mind control tech and FEV refinements.


The idea is that pre-war everyone assumed that nukes would destroy the world beyond repair, so having the 'best and brightest' (richest and most corrupt) people start over again somewhere else was the best solution, and since everyone else was doomed anyway why not expend them in experiments to learn what should and shoul not be done to make a lunar colony successful? It's not an unusual concept, though both the examples I am immediately able to recall are from parody works, the Simpsons and Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy specifically.

[Errorname]

This is almost certainly true, but I can't think of any examples. You got any?

You have people who independently made their own shelters like the Brotherhood or House, but you also have more rural regions that weren't directly hit by the bombs. Like a lot of the early game towns in New Vegas are pretty directly taken from real towns in the region, and Doc Mitchell being from a vault makes him unusual in Goodsprings.

[t209]

The whole setting is cartoonishly stupid, that's kinda half the point. It's a post-apocalypse story filtered through the lens of 50's sci-fi, which was for the most part really dumb.

Well, I was wondering if 1 and 2 also had less stringent lens since…modern firearms, and 2’s “Chi-Town” entire culture based on 70’s Kung Fu movies and Tom Cruise parody.
Also maybe Gamma World and A Boy and His Dog absurdity (even entire Vault might include influence from underground city…minus the make up).

[InvisibleBison]

You have people who independently made their own shelters like the Brotherhood or House, but you also have more rural regions that weren't directly hit by the bombs. Like a lot of the early game towns in New Vegas are pretty directly taken from real towns in the region, and Doc Mitchell being from a vault makes him unusual in Goodsprings.

I'm not sure how much we can/should extrapolate from New Vegas. As I recall, Mr. House had a moderately effective anti-missile system installed, which shot down a lot of the nukes headed for the area. That would have allowed for a lot more of the non-sheltered settlements to survive.

[Errorname]

I'm not sure how much we can/should extrapolate from New Vegas. As I recall, Mr. House had a moderately effective anti-missile system installed, which shot down a lot of the nukes headed for the area. That would have allowed for a lot more of the non-sheltered settlements to survive.

Honestly I'm citing New Vegas more because it's the one I'm most familiar with. From Fallout 1 both Junktown and the Hub were settled by survivors from the surface, and each game since has had a mix of communities made by ex-Vault Dwellers and people who survived through other means.

[gmoyes]

Fallout 76, as problematic as it is, also had plenty of people survive the nukes since is in the country side. Everyone died only because of the Sourge plague that followed right after.

[Talakeal]

You have people who independently made their own shelters like the Brotherhood or House, but you also have more rural regions that weren't directly hit by the bombs. Like a lot of the early game towns in New Vegas are pretty directly taken from real towns in the region, and Doc Mitchell being from a vault makes him unusual in Goodsprings.

True. But remember, it has been over 200 years since the war at this point, and there are lots of vaults in the region. Its possible the other people of Good Springs simply left their vaults a century or more earlier than he did.

Might also be the tribe the Chosen One was from, though there's no evidence either way; if they were from a Vault, it was a few generations ago (long enough that, aside from the Vault Dweller, they didn't really talk about anyone from the Vault, and they had a "temple of the ancients" that didn't seem to be a converted pre-war building... they'd been there a while.)

I think the lore in Fallout 2 (its been decades so I might be misremembering) is that a group of people left Vault 13 with the Vault Dweller and then moved north and intermarried with the locals, who had (presumably) existed vaults decades earlier like the people of Shady Sands. I know the ending says that Arroyo and Vault 13 come together to create a new civilization and "re-unite two generations of the same bloodline".

[Tyndmyr]

The whole setting is cartoonishly stupid, that's kinda half the point. It's a post-apocalypse story filtered through the lens of 50's sci-fi, which was for the most part really dumb.

Plus TBH I'll believe literally anything of a corporation. The same thing on a larger, slower scale is already happening IRL with climate change.

Oh, absolutely, there's a whole abducted by flying saucer DLC in Fallout 3, and basically nothing in it is all that serious, and it's pulpy as all hell.

Also, its fantastic.

[Errorname]

True. But remember, it has been over 200 years since the war at this point, and there are lots of vaults in the region. Its possible the other people of Good Springs simply left their vaults a century or more earlier than he did.

As mentioned a lot of settlements in Fallout 1 are explicitly not created by ex-Vault Dwellers. Vault descended people aren't the majority. Also, we know the which vaults in New Vegas opened with survivors and we know where those survivors went (Mitchell is from one, the Boomers are from the other).

Oh, absolutely, there's a whole abducted by flying saucer DLC in Fallout 3, and basically nothing in it is all that serious, and it's pulpy as all hell.

Mothership Zeta is dreadful, so it wouldn't be my benchmark for tone. I've enjoyed some of the silly stuff, but Fallout's always been at it's best when it commits to the premise and takes it seriously.

[Wookieetank]

Mothership Zeta is dreadful, so it wouldn't be my benchmark for tone. I've enjoyed some of the silly stuff, but Fallout's always been at it's best when it commits to the premise and takes it seriously.

I'd say Fallout has been rather silly from the start, and that's part of the fun for me. Crashed UFOs, a dog named Dogmeat, King Arthur and his knights in BoS armor looking for a holy hand grenade, and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head from games 1&2 (granted Dogmeat is immortal and shows up in most games ). Then in 3 there's the junk launcher you can use teddy bears in to take out enemies, reverse pickpocketing grenades for fun and profit (can't remember if this could be done in earlier games), Liberty Prime and his mini-nuke footballs, actually kidnapped by aliens, Super Mutant Behemoths, and more. I'll leave out NV, 4 and F76 just to keep this from getting overly long.