OOTS #1299 - The Discussion Thread

[KorvinStarmast]

"It isn't etiquette to cut any one you've been introduced to." -- Through the Looking-Glass, Lewis Carroll

FWIW, you quoted Ruck but I think it was me you were quoting. Multiquote stuff happens to me often.

He is intelligent, but also prideful, angry and the last time he surrendered ended up in a decade-long nightmare that he declared prefering getting killed than experiencing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Calder goes "kill me and let's be done with it" and/or Serini enthusiastically going "kill him and let's be done with it" too, and then Roy says "no" and give Calder a chance to talk it out without anyone charging at another with an axe.

I can see Rich writing it that way.

If only. The hours and hours of meetings talking about how to be more productive will keep expanding until productivity improves. (0_o)

NNoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......!

Tom Lehrer: "I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!"

He was an integral part of my early education. Base 8 is just like Base 10, if you are missing two fingers!

I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne Yakov Smirnoff:
"In every country, they make fun of city. In U.S. you make fun of Cleveland. In Russia, we make fun of Cleveland."

Ian Hunter and Drew Carey may not agree with Yakov:
https://youtu.be/1qDkZnpOiS8

[drazen]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{scrubbed}

Haley could have covered Elan's skills easily, they had the telepathy as a backup, and most importantly, Elan asked (implicitly) if he even needed to be in the meeting. The last time we saw Elan in a meeting on-panel, it was a flashback where he was daydreaming about what flavor clouds are (his reasoning being something like: vanilla is the obvious choice, but is that too obvious?).

{scrubbed}

[Doug Lampert]

I always got the impression it was more like fraternal hate. Europeans can make fun of all other Europeans, but they'll all go for the Americans if they try to edge in, for example.

That's where I fail. I quite like the French.

I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne Yakov Smirnoff:
"In every country, they make fun of city. In U.S. you make fun of Cleveland. In Russia, we make fun of Cleveland."

I was once at Dark Carnival, a book store in Berkley, when Terry Pratchet was there to do a signing.

He mentioned how before he left England for the USA, people warned him, "Be careful, they're wierd over there."
So, he did the NY, Atlanta, Miami portions of the tour, and mentioned this to people, "They don't mean us, they mean the West Coast."
So, he flew next to Seatle and Portland (Oregon obviously), and mentioned this to people, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean California."
Next up was the San Diego and LA portions of the trip, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean the Bay Area."
Next up was San Fransisco, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean Berkeley."
So now he was in Berkeley, and having related this story, asked: Who do we blame? Dark Carnival wasn't that close to campus, so we discussed it and decided it was probably the university, but someone pointed ut that we could narrow it down further.

The center of wierdness for the entire universe is the Intersection of Telegraph and Bancroft in Berkeley California.

So, now you know, if you need to make fun of someplace, it's the Intersection of Telegraph and Bancroft in Berkeley California. They're wierd there.

[KorvinStarmast]

So, now you know, if you need to make fun of someplace, it's the Intersection of Telegraph and Bancroft in Berkeley California. They're wierd there.

I think I was drunk there once. Also, Weird not Wierd. (For some reason).

[Shining Wrath]

People used to make fun of Cleveland - you know, burning rivers and all that.
Now I see people trying to make fun of San Francisco - homeless people and all that.

The people trying to make fun of San Francisco have never stood on the Golden Gate Bridge and looked across the Bay sparkling in the sunlight as the city rises like a fairy tale from the water. It's easy to do from a distance. It's quite a bit more difficult if you've actually been there.

[Mordar]

You would need to compare lifespans with a halfling without regeneration who had sustained the same injuries.

This is called a con-troll group.

Utterly brilliant. Makes me legitimately happy someone inspired me to think of troll questions. You have my thanks, if those are any value to fish.

- M

[brian 333]

...So my pre-theory is that Troll systems minus regeneration might be functional for 20-40 years, but with regen it is 3x-5x higher.

- M

Rapid growth and regeneration is called cancer. Look at even young trolls and you can see the irregular-shaped moles and lesions that indicate advanced melanoma.

Regeneration shortens total lifespan, and helps to increase the per-patient total expenditure on pharmaceuticals.

[Unoriginal]

Utterly brilliant. Makes me legitimately happy someone inspired me to think of troll questions. You have my thanks, if those are any value to fish.

- M

Little known fact: after the trolls healed her, Serini thanked them by teaching them how to swindle people with schemes and scams, something she was well-suited to teach, as an Epic Rogue. The surprising part is that they became quite adept at it despite living in an isolated village in the middle of nowhere.

She also taught them how to stealth better, and to this day it's still hard to find the remote Con Trolls.

[pendell]

You would need to compare lifespans with a halfling without regeneration who had sustained the same injuries.

This is called a con-troll group.

This made my day; thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[gbaji]

Person A hates Person B from the next village over, A & B are united in hate of C from the next valley over, ABC are united in hate of D from the next region over, ABCD are united in hate of E from the next country over, ABCDE are united in hate of F from two countries over, etc.

So... How do we measure the ratio of "people we hate" to "people we are united with"? Is it all about scale?

The people trying to make fun of San Francisco have never stood on the Golden Gate Bridge and looked across the Bay sparkling in the sunlight as the city rises like a fairy tale from the water. It's easy to do from a distance. It's quite a bit more difficult if you've actually been there.

Yeah. San Fransisco, like many things, looks much much better from a distance than up close.

[Mordar]

Little known fact: after the trolls healed her, Serini thanked them by teaching them how to swindle people with schemes and scams, something she was well-suited to teach, as an Epic Rogue. The surprising part is that they became quite adept at it despite living in an isolated village in the middle of nowhere.

She also taught them how to stealth better, and to this day it's still hard to find the remote Con Trolls.

After that stretch your tendons and ligaments might need some regenerative therapy of their own.

Serious question: Someone help me with the title pun. I don't see Bloodfeast as red, so the obvious (Red Dragon vs Red Dinosaur) doesn't land for me, and I can't track anything being read in the strip.

- M

[Wintermoot]

After that stretch your tendons and ligaments might need some regenerative therapy of their own.

Serious question: Someone help me with the title pun. I don't see Bloodfeast as red, so the obvious (Red Dragon vs Red Dinosaur) doesn't land for me, and I can't track anything being read in the strip.

- M

You may not "see" Bloodfeast as Red, but he is Red. Just a different shade of red than the dragon. I'm assuming that the Red vs Red title, while referencing the red dinosaur vs the red dragon, is also meant as a shout-out or comment on Red vs Blue and the recent fall/dissolution of Rooster Teeth, the creators of Red vs. Blue. But it could also just be coincidental.

[Belsirk]

[Wrong topic ]

[Bird]

You may not "see" Bloodfeast as Red, but he is Red. Just a different shade of red than the dragon. I'm assuming that the Red vs Red title, while referencing the red dinosaur vs the red dragon, is also meant as a shout-out or comment on Red vs Blue and the recent fall/dissolution of Rooster Teeth, the creators of Red vs. Blue. But it could also just be coincidental.

Bloodfeast is more recognizably red when outside of the AMF. I actually thought the second "Red" could be Haley, though, since she shows up (in a supporting role) in the last panel.

[Kish]

I think Calder's going to die in this fight. In the abstract, everything said about how negotiating with him could say something about various other characters is valid...

...but he wasted very little time establishing that he's actually profoundly evil, and I don't think Rich would have done that if he was going for "and then Roy made a deal with Calder."

[Wintermoot]

Bloodfeast is more recognizably red when outside of the AMF. I actually thought the second "Red" could be Haley, though, since she shows up (in a supporting role) in the last panel.

You know what they say. When the goat turns, red strikes true.

[Mordar]

Bloodfeast is more recognizably red when outside of the AMF. I actually thought the second "Red" could be Haley, though, since she shows up (in a supporting role) in the last panel.

I went back and looked at the EoB appearances to and really see brown, but I understand, and now have learned about Rooster Teeth.

- M

[DavidSh]

I was once at Dark Carnival, a book store in Berkley, when Terry Pratchet was there to do a signing.

He mentioned how before he left England for the USA, people warned him, "Be careful, they're wierd over there."
So, he did the NY, Atlanta, Miami portions of the tour, and mentioned this to people, "They don't mean us, they mean the West Coast."
So, he flew next to Seatle and Portland (Oregon obviously), and mentioned this to people, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean California."
Next up was the San Diego and LA portions of the trip, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean the Bay Area."
Next up was San Fransisco, "Oh, they don't mean us, they mean Berkeley."
So now he was in Berkeley, and having related this story, asked: Who do we blame? Dark Carnival wasn't that close to campus, so we discussed it and decided it was probably the university, but someone pointed ut that we could narrow it down further.

The center of wierdness for the entire universe is the Intersection of Telegraph and Bancroft in Berkeley California.

So, now you know, if you need to make fun of someplace, it's the Intersection of Telegraph and Bancroft in Berkeley California. They're wierd there.

Times change, but I'd guess the genre-savvy Terry was adapting for his audience the classic (1940) intro to "--And He Built a Crooked House":

Americans are considered crazy anywhere in the world.

They will usually concede a basis for the accusation but point to California as the focus of the infection. Californians stoutly maintain that their bad reputation is derived entirely from the acts of the residents of Los Angeles County. Angelenos will, when pressed, admit the charge but explain hastily, "It's Hollywood. It's not our fault -- we didn't ask for it; Hollywood just grew."

The people in Hollywood don't care; they glory in it. If you are interested, they will drive you up Laurel Canyon "-- where we keep the violent cases."

[Bird]

You know what they say. When the goat turns, red strikes true.

Good quote. I'm sure I had that in the back of my head.

Just in case anyone is interested, Bloodfeast's main colors seem to be a85c44 and 884434. Though both contain lots of red, I agree he's a pretty brown-looking archosaur. (He is also a pretty, brown-looking archosaur, and what a pretty archosaur he is.)

[Ruck]

I think Calder's going to die in this fight. In the abstract, everything said about how negotiating with him could say something about various other characters is valid...

...but he wasted very little time establishing that he's actually profoundly evil, and I don't think Rich would have done that if he was going for "and then Roy made a deal with Calder."

...unless, say, Durkon and V take the lead in making a deal, showing V's further growth in respecting life and showing Durkon that, hey, maybe he can convince Redcloak in the end. Plus the fun of the party's two least-charismatic characters taking the lead in negotiations.

(I don't actually think that will happen, but it occurred to me as I was reading your post. I also think Calder will likely die, but I feel like there must be some way in which his presence leads to further exposition about the Scribble, though that could just be as simple as "and then Calder's comments about surrendering to the Scribble lead Roy et al. to prod Serini further for details on the Scribble.")

[The MunchKING]

The "bleu" is an euphemistic swear word. Like "heck" or "dang" in English.

Oh sure, but the joke was Bleu cheese.

In a literal sense Bleu is just French for Blue, right?

[brian 333]

Little known fact: after the trolls healed her, Serini thanked them by teaching them how to swindle people with schemes and scams, something she was well-suited to teach, as an Epic Rogue. The surprising part is that they became quite adept at it despite living in an isolated village in the middle of nowhere.

She also taught them how to stealth better, and to this day it's still hard to find the remote Con Trolls.

You just couldn't con-troll yourself there, could you?

...Serious question: Someone help me with the title pun. I don't see Bloodfeast as red, so the obvious (Red Dragon vs Red Dinosaur) doesn't land for me, and I can't track anything being read in the strip.

- M

My vote is Haley being the second Red. My first thought was Calder vs. Sunny, but Sunny is orange.

You know what they say. When the goat turns, red strikes true.

Eugene says that. Nobody else says that. Though, Calder does have a chin-beard...

I had a mental image of Bloodfeast being reduced to lizard form, swallowed whole by a contemptuous Calder, then reverting to full size when Sunny gazes upon his gullet.

Two giant legs tear through Calder's abdomen, the massive allosaurus head splits the neck wide open, and Blood feast has an instant suit of Red Dragonskin armor.

Teary-eyed Belkar says, "That's m'boy!"

[Peelee]

Oh sure, but the joke was Bleu cheese.

In a literal sense Bleu is just French for Blue, right?

Yes. It's a case of watering down an exclamation by replacing the original words with other words that rhyme. Several American exclamations have similar deviations.

[pendell]

I think Calder's going to die in this fight. In the abstract, everything said about how negotiating with him could say something about various other characters is valid...

...but he wasted very little time establishing that he's actually profoundly evil, and I don't think Rich would have done that if he was going for "and then Roy made a deal with Calder."

Well, what would be the basis of a deal?

"Surrender, and I'll fight Team Evil?" But why would we trust Calder to honor that deal, as opposed to defecting to the people who would happily help him kill Serini?

I just can't think of anything Calder has to offer that might convince the Order to spare his life. Even if the paladins walked in. Paladins are supposed to be Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid. We've already disposed of the worst possible portrayed paladin in the person of Miko Miyazaki; O-chul and Lien have a bit more common sense than that. They have no mechanism to restrain an evil doer on this scale AND prep for team evil at the same time.

Remind me, just how strict is the Paladin code? Are Paladins expected to accept surrenders even when there's no reasonable way for it to work? I could see them pushing for surrender if Calder was alone and Team Evil wasn't here about to destroy the world. As it is? I think the paladins would be forced to find some kind of workaround. Or simply leave the room and let their Non-good teammates take care of business .

I guess it all comes down to whether the 12 gods are going to treat this as if they were law robots (and there's only one alignment in the chart like that) or if they are going to filter the law through common sense. I'm guessing the former. And in the worst case, I think I'd rather the paladins leave the team than leave Calder at my back.

So if there IS some way for Calder to get out of this alive by surrendering, I'm not seeing it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Provengreil]

After that stretch your tendons and ligaments might need some regenerative therapy of their own.

Serious question: Someone help me with the title pun. I don't see Bloodfeast as red, so the obvious (Red Dragon vs Red Dinosaur) doesn't land for me, and I can't track anything being read in the strip.

- M

The antimagic zone is making everything pale as a visual effect. Try comparing Calder's non AMFed hues from a few pages ago and this shot of Bloodfeast.

Well, what would be the basis of a deal?

I don't see that Calder has anything to offer in a transactional sense, but that doesn't mean that the Order won't accept a surrender anyway. As I pointed out above, Roy, Durkon, Serini, and Vaarsuvious all have a character motivation to speak further if Calder is willing to cease hostilities.

Also, the other option is a deathmatch with a very scary foe, and every round increases the risk the Order loses someone permanently and the resources required to recover while making no progress at all towards their actual goals. On the tabletop, I'd probably let him be tomorrow's adventure to conserve every ounce of fight that I have for the upcoming endgame.

[alceryes]

Do you think Bloodfeast's sudden transformation (and subsequent attack) could qualify as a surprise attack?
RAW would say no since mini Bloodfeast is definitely seen, but in this situation what was seen is definitely NOT what Calder experienced. He seemed surprised.

[Provengreil]

Do you think Bloodfeast's sudden transformation (and subsequent attack) could qualify as a surprise attack?
RAW would say no since mini Bloodfeast is definitely seen, but in this situation what was seen is definitely NOT what Calder experienced. He seemed surprised.

As a DM I'd have ruled it so, but IIRC surprise attacks won't do much against dragons unless you're getting sneak attack dice.

[alceryes]

As a DM I'd have ruled it so, but IIRC surprise attacks won't do much against dragons unless you're getting sneak attack dice.

True. Maybe he just got better chance to hit.

[Mordar]

The antimagic zone is making everything pale as a visual effect. Try comparing Calder's non AMFed hues from a few pages ago and this shot of Bloodfeast.

I did go back and check previous appearances and it just reads brown to me, but I am not complaining. One man's umber, or something.

True. Maybe he just got better chance to hit.

Don't halflings get a bonus with thrown allosauruses? I believe under most rulesets that conveys.

- M

[Throknor]

...unless, say, Durkon and V take the lead in making a deal, showing V's further growth in respecting life ...

The same V that was ready yet again to kill Serina for the vile crime of upstaging them?