Need Cleric help

[athorod]

I'm making a cleric.

VHuman or CustomLineage - point buy.
Domains available: War, Life, Nature, Arcana, Nature, Light, Trickery, Knowledge and nerfed Twilight (twilight sanctuary requires concentration)

I need to be in melee due to party composition (bard, sorcerer, paladin). I want something other to do with my action than dodge, which is why I'm currently thinking a weapon + blade cantrip + shillelagh. I really like using weapons both due to I can both flank and get magic weapons etc. But not sure what will be more fun.
Besides that I will try to heal and buff.

I'm currently undecided between these:
- Nature cleric w/shillelagh and magic initiate for Booming Blade and telekinetic to have some more CC - seems quite straight forward and I really like the nature theme for this campaign. I'm not used to playing around with lots of movement hampering spells like Plant Growth etc., but maybe I could try to lean into that.

- Nature cleric w/thorn whip and telekinetic for more CC. I wont play around with any weapons which is really the most issue I have with it.

- Arcana cleric w/booming blade and magic initiate for both thorn whip and shillelagh. Here I get BOTH shillelagh and thorn whip. But I find the domain spells really, really lacking.

- Twilight/Life or something w/16str heavy armor with longsword/mace and magic initiate for blade cantrip?

Which of these seems the most fun?
Or can I be convinced that it is enough just to do cantrips?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've played Build 4: Arcana Cleric Frontliner with Magic Initiate at 1st, and it's plenty of fun.

[Hairfish]

You listed Nature domain twice. Not sure if the repeat was actually supposed to be a different domain (Tempest? They can be fun) or just a repeat.

I, too, have played the Arcana frontliner linked above and had a great time. Though I was a tabaxi and got a lot of mileage out of their racial speed ability; skipped Magic Initiate in favor of just stabbing people w/ a dagger, since most of the melee damage comes from BB/GFB anyway.

Boring domain spells isn't really an issue. In a big fight, Spirit Guardians is almost always a great use of your concentration.

[Psyren]

You listed Nature domain twice. Not sure if the repeat was actually supposed to be a different domain (Tempest? They can be fun) or just a repeat.

One appears to be Thorn Whip-based while the other is Shillelagh-based.

@OP: For the Thorn Whip one I would go Telekinetic to push, Thorn Whip to pull and rely on spells like Spirit Guardians and Spike Growth to be a blender/cheese grater.

[CTurbo]

Tempest domain and Magic Initiate for Booming Blade. Take Crusher at level 4 and you can put enemies in "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations all the time.

You hit them with Booming Blade and also push them back 5ft so you're out of their reach, but they're still in your Spirit Guardians aura. The forced pushback doesn't trigger the extra Booming Blade damage, but they aren't going to spend their turn not moving either so you'll still get it consistently. Plus maximized Thunder and Lightening spells are awesome. I think Tempests make the best melee Clerics anyway.

If Tempest is not available for some reason, I'd actually go Arcana. You'll get Booming Blade anyway and you'll add your Wis to the damage of it at level 8. Only Medium armor though.

[athorod]

Yes, one of the Nature builds was Shillelagh and the other Thorn Whip.

I think I'm leaning towards the Aracana build. Mostly because I then can get Thorn Whip + Telekinetic with SG in addition to Shillelagh w/blade cantrips.

That would give a tad more options even though I'd miss out on the environment spells of the nature cleric.

I guess I could go custom lineage with something like 8-14-13-12-17-10 and get magic initiate, telekinetic, res(con) then wis+2.

But while I'm at it - what are really cool cleric builds that thrives in melee that doesn't use any weapons? Basically any cleric? (Not sure I find the "just use your action to dodge" with SG/SW up builds very fun)

VHuman or CustomLineage - point buy.
Domains available: War, Life, Nature, Arcana, Nature, Light, Trickery, Knowledge and nerfed Twilight (twilight sanctuary requires concentration)

[athorod]

Tempest domain and Magic Initiate for Booming Blade. Take Crusher at level 4 and you can put enemies in "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations all the time.

You hit them with Booming Blade and also push them back 5ft so you're out of their reach, but they're still in your Spirit Guardians aura. The forced pushback doesn't trigger the extra Booming Blade damage, but they aren't going to spend their turn not moving either so you'll still get it consistently. Plus maximized Thunder and Lightening spells are awesome. I think Tempests make the best melee Clerics anyway.

If Tempest is not available for some reason, I'd actually go Arcana. You'll get Booming Blade anyway and you'll add your Wis to the damage of it at level 8. Only Medium armor though.

This looks cool too. Would you get Shillelagh with tempest or just use a martial weapon? I expect you'll get Shillelagh with Arcana?

[athorod]

You listed Nature domain twice. Not sure if the repeat was actually supposed to be a different domain (Tempest? They can be fun) or just a repeat.

I, too, have played the Arcana frontliner linked above and had a great time. Though I was a tabaxi and got a lot of mileage out of their racial speed ability; skipped Magic Initiate in favor of just stabbing people w/ a dagger, since most of the melee damage comes from BB/GFB anyway.

Boring domain spells isn't really an issue. In a big fight, Spirit Guardians is almost always a great use of your concentration.

Wasn't the "to hit" modifier an issue with a dagger?
I suppose you're right that you don't really need the domain spells, but still, when compared to some of what the other classes get it's a tad boring...

[CTurbo]

Nah for melee Tempest Clerics you want Str. You'd need 15 Str for heavy armor anyway so just start with 16 Str and 16 Wis and you'll be good to go. By level 12, If you take Crusher, +2 Wis, and any other +1 Str half feat you'd have 18 in both Wis and Str. I've taken Heavy Armor Master(+1 Str) twice on my Tempests but both times were with the starting feat. It's amazing at lower levels, but isn't quite as good at higher levels. It's never bad though.

[NecessaryWeevil]

A third (fourth?) vote for the Arcana Frontliner. I played it as an Aasimar and had a good time with it. I was good in melee and mostly hung out there until higher levels at which point my concentration on encounter-defining spells became too valuable to risk.

[CTurbo]

Yeah the bad thing about frontline Clerics is you're going to want/need Res(Con) and/or Warcaster too. There aren't enough ASI/feats to go around for all the things. Something has to give. If you're really looking to play a melee Cleric, I suggest starting Fighter 1, Then taking 5-8 levels of Cleric in a row, and then taking 4-5 more levels of Fighter to get extra attack and 2 more ASI/feats. Ranger 5 works well instead of Fighter also.

You CAN play a melee Cleric and be a "good" character, but Clerics are still full casters and if you're neglecting their high powered spells, you're going to notice a power gap at high levels between yourself and other party members.

[Theodoxus]

But while I'm at it - what are really cool cleric builds that thrives in melee that doesn't use any weapons? Basically any cleric? (Not sure I find the "just use your action to dodge" with SG/SW up builds very fun)

Fun is always subjective, but I enjoyed playing a Life Cleric that used Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead most rounds (depending on resistances, cover, undamaged, etc.) and using Healing Word when needed/useful.

The great thing was having heavy armor and a shield but never worrying about Warcaster nor increasing my Str above 15 because of being weapon free.

By 5th level, casting SG to start the round, followed with SW on a BA and follow up with TtD. When you get swarmed, that's when you start Dodging... but if it's only 1 or 2 critters in your face, between eating SG and TtD, they'll leave you alone pretty quick. By then you're probably sitting pretty with a 19 or 20 AC (if not better from some magic protection items). Hug your shield tight, point your finger at a bad guy and keep your crew up as you chew through the competition. It's not a playstyle everyone will enjoy, but it really brought back the feel of playing a Healer in an MMORPG.

[RogueJK]

But while I'm at it - what are really cool cleric builds that thrives in melee that doesn't use any weapons? Basically any cleric? (Not sure I find the "just use your action to dodge" with SG/SW up builds very fun)

You nailed the big weaponless one already: Nature Cleric with Thorn Whip. Pulling enemies into SG for an extra tick of damage each round is good, and doesn't require a weapon. Add in Telekinetic for added shove/pull forced movement.

But any Cleric has other weaponless options besides just Dodge each turn, like Toll The Dead/Sacred Flame, or Help to set up Advantage for your Paladin fishing for Critical Smites (depending on Initiative order). Arcana Clerics have even further cantrip options too, since they have the whole Wizard cantrip list to choose from as well.

[Inquisitor]

Yes, one of the Nature builds was Shillelagh and the other Thorn Whip.

I think I'm leaning towards the Aracana build. Mostly because I then can get Thorn Whip + Telekinetic with SG in addition to Shillelagh w/blade cantrips.

That would give a tad more options even though I'd miss out on the environment spells of the nature cleric.

I guess I could go custom lineage with something like 8-14-13-12-17-10 and get magic initiate, telekinetic, res(con) then wis+2.

But while I'm at it - what are really cool cleric builds that thrives in melee that doesn't use any weapons? Basically any cleric? (Not sure I find the "just use your action to dodge" with SG/SW up builds very fun)

VHuman or CustomLineage - point buy.
Domains available: War, Life, Nature, Arcana, Nature, Light, Trickery, Knowledge and nerfed Twilight (twilight sanctuary requires concentration)

Personally I think you've hit on the 'best' and fun option here with the Thorn Whip + TK. Provided SG is up, Thorn Whip is better than whatever blade cantrip you come up with, and TK is better that SW, and moving things around adds fun options. I know opinions vary, but I didn't think SW was particularly good (outside of some specific cases like Death Cleric) even before TK; now it's no contest.
Another poster mentioned limited ASIs/Feats, and going Thorn Whip allows you to stay SAD vs. weapon based as well.

Sounds like Death Cleric wasn't an option, but if it was, even reflavored, then the twinning your cantrips + the quazi-smite damage pasted on to SW makes for an effective melee combo.

[Hairfish]

And a good thing about Thorn Whip is it counts as a melee (spell) attack, so you can use it while adjacent to an enemy without penalty.

But I'd still take BB if taking War Caster.

[athorod]

Thank you for all your replies! Much appreciated!

I reckon I'm settling on Arcana so I get the most options for what I desire the most to accomplish.
Something like 8-14-15-8-17-10 for stats as Custom Lineage.


I think I'll just take Booming Blade and select a ranged attack cantrip (possibly Chill Touch?), since it's a cleric cantrip in any case, so I can ditch both Sacred Flame and TtD at level one.
At level 1 take Magic Initiate for Thorn Whip and Shillelagh to get both, and Goodberry(?).
At level 4 I'll take Telekinesis +1wis
At 8th/12th I'll take Resilient(Con)/Wis+2 or the other way around.

I think it'll be fun!

[RogueJK]

I think I'll just take Booming Blade and select a ranged attack cantrip (possibly Chill Touch?), since it's a cleric cantrip in any case, so I can ditch both Sacred Flame and TtD at level one.

Chill Touch would be a good pick. It's double the range of TtD/SF, plus has a situationally useful rider. But I'd also still take Sacred Flame as a backup option, for times when you need Radiant damage (or don't want Necrotic), or when an enemy has a high AC or is behind cover.

Also worth considering is taking Mage Hand as your other cantrip, because if you already have Mage Hand and take Telekinetic it doubles the range... There's a lot of shenanigans and neat tricks you can get up to with 60' ranged Mage Hand. I played a Tome Warlock with Mage Hand and Telekinetic in a recent campaign, and frequently threw the DM curveballs with clever uses of long range Mage Hand.

At level 1 take Magic Initiate for Thorn Whip and Shillelagh to get both, and Goodberry(?).

Goodberry is a solid choice, and something you can use just about every day.

Absorb Elements would be another good choice, even if it's only 1x/day and wouldn't necessarily come into play each and every day.

[Urbanmech]

War Caster is gold in an Arcana Cleric build. An opportunity attack booming blade can deal a lot of damage. It also puts your enemies in a conundrum if they are inside of your Spirit Guardians, move away and draw a booming blade and take extra damage or stand stay in the guardians area. It gets even better once the level 8 feature lets you add your wisdom mod to cantrip damage.

[Hairfish]

Ranged attack roll cantrip won't get much use on a frontliner/tank, because you'll be rolling w/ disadvantage a lot of the time. Thorn Whip works because it counts as a melee attack, though. Might consider a cantrip that targets a save a high-AC enemy is unlikely to do well with, like Mind Sliver or Toll the Dead.

[athorod]

War Caster is gold in an Arcana Cleric build. An opportunity attack booming blade can deal a lot of damage. It also puts your enemies in a conundrum if they are inside of your Spirit Guardians, move away and draw a booming blade and take extra damage or stand stay in the guardians area. It gets even better once the level 8 feature lets you add your wisdom mod to cantrip damage.

I suppose you are right. But which feat should I replace it with? I need magic initiate at 1st and telekinetic at 4th (being few melee's in the party I imagine moving my allies from enemies will be useful). War caster at 8th instead of Resilient(Con) or +2wis to get 20wis?

Ranged attack roll cantrip won't get much use on a frontliner/tank, because you'll be rolling w/ disadvantage a lot of the time. Thorn Whip works because it counts as a melee attack, though. Might consider a cantrip that targets a save a high-AC enemy is unlikely to do well with, like Mind Sliver or Toll the Dead.

I guess I won't be using the ranged cantrip too often, but I still figured I could use one or two of them? Maybe one that targets AC and another that targets INT or WIS?

[Urbanmech]

War Caster at 4th or 8th is probably the way to go. At 4th can be better for protecting your concentration on Spirit Guardians or other things. Then Telekinetic at 8th and 20 Wisdom at 12. Taking War Caster early also brings your melee punishment online earlier. Enemies either stay in you SG or eat a painful booming blade as they move out.

[RogueJK]

Ranged attack roll cantrip won't get much use on a frontliner/tank, because you'll be rolling w/ disadvantage a lot of the time.

You won't always be in melee range of an enemy every round, or even every combat. So having a 60' or even better a 120' ranged cantrip option is practically a necessity on a melee-focused cleric.