Star Wars: The Acolyte official trailer

[Mechalich]

I mean, the High Republic era Jedi are massively struggling and taking considerable casualties against opposition that amounts to a large pirate gang with a few hardcore zealots in their leadership. Entire Jedi Temples are being destroyed (because they are picking off the isolated ones in the Outer Rim, Jedi Masters and Council members are battle casualties, and it's just a big gang of pirates.

I only got as far as Light of the Jedi (the first book) when it came to the High Republic, but it was very, very clear from the start that the people behind that series had 'sci-fi writers have no sense of scale', going really, really badly. I mean, it was embarrassing how ridiculously exaggerated certain tiny threats were and how places like Starlight Beacon had nothing like the capacity to serve the kind of duty they were purported to meet.

Given how distorted scale is in the High Republic, it mangles any message it attempts to present.

It should be pretty clear, for example, that if you found out the army you were using was commissioned by the very same Sith Lord your Order is fighting, you would want to find out what the bloody hell is going on before you sent any more Jedi out there to fight with that army, especially considering the Jedi Council already knew about the inhibitor chips inside the clone troopers and that when one of them malfunctioned they killed a Jedi in cold blood. The whole thing with Fives happened before all this, remember. The more the war felt like a trap waiting to be sprung, the sooner the Jedi should have withdrawn from it. Yoda saying that they just had to win the war before Dooku could spring his trap is arrogance of the highest order.

Arrogance is part of it, but the Jedi of the PT are also guilty of trusting the Force too much. They spent time with the clones and came to know them in the Force. Through the Force the clones were revealed as loyal, valorous, and dedicated to the principles of the Republic, something the Jedi had, themselves, worked to instill in them. At the same time, the Force hid the future in which, due to the activation of the biochips, the clones would undergo fundamental personality changes (the Bad Batch makes it quite clear that the clones behave very differently post-activation) and murder them all. This is, of course, the same mistake Palpatine makes in the OT. He trusts the Force's revelation that there's no threat on the Forest Moon and completely misses the possibility that the Ewoks would side with the Rebellion and support the attack on the bunker, which is ultimately his undoing. It's the same mistake - arrogantly trusting the Force instead of properly planning out contingencies - from the opposite side.

Ironically, given Lucas' stated goals to increase spirituality via Star Wars, both trilogies hold the same lesson: don't trust mystical insight over hard evidence and sound preparation.

[Infernally Clay]

Arrogance is part of it, but the Jedi of the PT are also guilty of trusting the Force too much. They spent time with the clones and came to know them in the Force. Through the Force the clones were revealed as loyal, valorous, and dedicated to the principles of the Republic, something the Jedi had, themselves, worked to instill in them. At the same time, the Force hid the future in which, due to the activation of the biochips, the clones would undergo fundamental personality changes (the Bad Batch makes it quite clear that the clones behave very differently post-activation) and murder them all. This is, of course, the same mistake Palpatine makes in the OT. He trusts the Force's revelation that there's no threat on the Forest Moon and completely misses the possibility that the Ewoks would side with the Rebellion and support the attack on the bunker, which is ultimately his undoing. It's the same mistake - arrogantly trusting the Force instead of properly planning out contingencies - from the opposite side.

Ironically, given Lucas' stated goals to increase spirituality via Star Wars, both trilogies hold the same lesson: don't trust mystical insight over hard evidence and sound preparation.

I wonder how much of it is trusting the Force too much and how much of it is seeing what you want to see, interpreting things in such a way as to support your own interpretation as it were.

Take Anakin for example. He's the Chosen One, the one who will bring balance to the Force. Except the Jedi Council doesn't actually want the Chosen One to show up because they believe the Force is already in balance and has been ever since they destroyed the Sith a thousand years ago. Anakin's arrival isn't just unwelcome, it's terrifying. If the Force has deemed it necessary to bring forth the Chosen One, how badly out of balance has the Force become and why did the Jedi not see it? That's why they don't believe the prophecy is real, or that it could have been misinterpreted.

They allow their own bias to cloud their judgement and you could certainly argue it colours their attitude towards Anakin as well. It's hardly a secret that Mace Windu held no small amount of animosity towards Anakin and The Clone Wars and a fair bit of supplemental material are pretty explicit that he's someone who cares very much about how the galaxy perceives the Jedi Order and Anakin's existence as the Chosen One is practically an admission of guilt that the Jedi Order hasn't done its job.

Then of course there's the whole "bring balance to the Force" thing itself. The Jedi Council just assumes that the natural state of the Force is their side being the only one that exists, so naturally they assume bringing balance to the Force means destroying the Sith. I believe the Sith assumed the opposite, that the Jedi perverted the nature of the Force and that the Chosen One would destroy them. Ultimately both were wrong, oblivious to the truth that the Chosen One existed to leave the galaxy behind and remain on Mortis where he would keep the light and the dark in balance, but that's kind of the point right? When you think you're in the right, you twist the facts to support your own position. Both the Jedi and the Sith assumed the Chosen One existed to benefit them and because of their machinations he destroyed them both.

[Keltest]

Don't the Jedi flat out say in The Phantom Menace that their vision is clouded and that the Dark Side is on the rise? Qui-gon was attacked by a Sith Lord, and Obi-wan killed him. They know darn well that the Sith are back at that point. Denial doesn't really play a part in it.

[Peelee]

Also, aren't visions of the future explicitly unreliable because it's always in motion? Why is this one, which is apparently unique in the universe, absolute and concrete while all others are only possibilities that may not come to pass?

Given what the Jedi know, its certainly reasonable for them to not give full faith and credit to the prophecy, and even if it wasn't, it's not as if Anakin had a tattoo saying "totally the chosen one" or anything.

It's hard to deal with because the entire concept was just horrible writing.

[Saph]

I have to admit, I find it kind of weird how much of the discussion of the prequel era seems to come back to crapping on the Jedi, when they were pretty much the only group in the entire galaxy who seem to have been consistently trying to make things better. The Senate reacted to Palpatine declaring himself emperor by giving him a standing ovation, the CIS literally started a galaxy-wide civil war, but apparently it's all the fault of the Jedi Council for being "arrogant" or something?

[Sapphire Guard]

What they are actually arrogant about remains unclear.

If the solution is to pull out of the war, it kind of hits a snag if Palpatine has the ingenious idea of saying no, and sends the very betrayed feeling Clones to conscript them. The Separatists also can continue to attack whenever they want.

Anakin is also a problem. Even if the Jedi somehow successfully pull out, he will want to continue fighting, feel betrayed and end up closer to Palpatine if they don't back him up.

[warty goblin]

Mostly I think the Jedi get nitpicked because they're a weird quasi-religious order that doesn't look like a fantasized version of the audience, and they're in a tragedy. Cinema is awash in heroic characters who are chill bros and cool ladies who are super relatable to a middle American audience, just also impossibly good looking and improbably talented at violence. But they talk about how family is the only thing that matters and just want to be normal and probably order pizza and have a 50% of driving a minivan. It's you, but cooler.

The Jedi live in a mushroom shaped temple, seem to own like two sets of clothing, one laser sword, and don't really want anything else. They are not your cool bro, and if the Jedi are right, you aren't. Basically they're space vegans, and nothing is more off putting in a self indulgent consumerist culture than somebody deliberately making their lives harder for moral reasons that give them no tangible benefit and which you refuse to adopt. Which is why everybody whines about vegans*, and the Jedi have to be arrogant and stupid and cruel.

Also it's a tragedy and they lost. We don't really have a lot of big budget tragedies anymore. This means that the only frame anybody has for tragedy is remembering something about tragic flaws from not paying attention in high school. And it's already really attractive to pick at the Jedi, and the notion that you can do everything right and still get obliterated is deeply uncomfortable so the Jedi have to be flawed. Nevermind that not all tragedy is built around tragic flaws, and if anybody has a tragic flaw it's Anakin. The movies repeatedly show this, he wants control over everything because he has no ability to process loss. Which is also an uncomfortable sort of flaw, because it suggests there are moral limits on what one should do for loved ones.

*I worked in food service for years, if anybody was going to be annoyed by vegans, I would have been. Vegans are fine, they politely tell you what they want. Garden variety jerk customers who whine about how we overcooked their steak after they sent it back for being underdone 3 times when they said medium rare and got upset that it was still slightly pink are the problem and should be drowned in the deep fryer.

[Infernally Clay]

I have to admit, I find it kind of weird how much of the discussion of the prequel era seems to come back to crapping on the Jedi, when they were pretty much the only group in the entire galaxy who seem to have been consistently trying to make things better. The Senate reacted to Palpatine declaring himself emperor by giving him a standing ovation, the CIS literally started a galaxy-wide civil war, but apparently it's all the fault of the Jedi Council for being "arrogant" or something?

It's not that weird. The whole point of the prequel trilogy is to show how the galaxy ended up the way that it did in the original trilogy, to show that the Jedi Order and the Republic itself were both well past their prime and rife with a mixture of arrogance, corruption and hypocrisy and how Palpatine took advantage of that to crush them both and establish the Empire.

Nobody is saying everything was the Jedi's fault but it's a little odd that some of you are so resistant to the idea that the Jedi were flawed and had lost their way and made dumb mistakes, especially given how it's so clearly spelt out. Kinda makes me wonder what exactly you thought was going on. Did you not see how the Jedi Council was explicitly antagonistic towards Anakin, the Byronic hero the first six movies were ultimately about, or did you simply agree with the Council and not see why they were wrong to do what they did?

The Jedi Order was no longer what it once was and that'll be proven with The Acolyte, since it's set during a time when the Jedi Order was much more like the one Obi-Wan saw it as.

[Peelee]

It's not that weird. The whole point of the prequel trilogy is... to show that the Jedi Order and the Republic itself were both well past their prime and rife with a mixture of arrogance, corruption and hypocrisy.

You got a source on that? Or is it just what you think?

Honestly, it's hard to keep track of whether the Jedi and Republic were arrogant and incompetent and that's why they fell, or whether Palpatine was a mastermind who could never have failed, and the switch is so frequent and so rapid I get whiplash every time I hear one of those two needlessly adversarial claims.

[Keltest]

It's not that weird. The whole point of the prequel trilogy is to show how the galaxy ended up the way that it did in the original trilogy, to show that the Jedi Order and the Republic itself were both well past their prime and rife with a mixture of arrogance, corruption and hypocrisy and how Palpatine took advantage of that to crush them both and establish the Empire.

Nobody is saying everything was the Jedi's fault but it's a little odd that some of you are so resistant to the idea that the Jedi were flawed and had lost their way and made dumb mistakes, especially given how it's so clearly spelt out. Kinda makes me wonder what exactly you thought was going on. Did you not see how the Jedi Council was explicitly antagonistic towards Anakin, the Byronic hero the first six movies were ultimately about, or did you simply agree with the Council and not see why they were wrong to do what they did?

The Jedi Order was no longer what it once was and that'll be proven with The Acolyte, since it's set during a time when the Jedi Order was much more like the one Obi-Wan saw it as.

Its easy to say "this was wrong" but there is a pretty stark absence of what alternative measures they should have taken. Palpatine set things up to pretty harshly compel them to take these specific paths, so its not like they had a lot of choice about the things they did, especially involving the Clones. They knew something was up, but given the whole "enemy government led by someone trying to destroy us, specifically" thing going on, its not like they can just put the clones away until they know more about them. The CIS rolling over the Republic due to their lack of an army isnt the victory Palpatine expected, but he would sure take it if the Jedi gave it to him.

[Peelee]

Its easy to say "this was wrong" but there is a pretty stark absence of what alternative measures they should have taken. Palpatine set things up to pretty harshly compel them to take these specific paths, so its not like they had a lot of choice about the things they did, especially involving the Clones. They knew something was up, but given the whole "enemy government led by someone trying to destroy us, specifically" thing going on, its not like they can just put the clones away until they know more about them. The CIS rolling over the Republic due to their lack of an army isnt the victory Palpatine expected, but he would sure take it if the Jedi gave it to him.

See, I don't think the Jedi needed to involve themselves with the army. The Republic pretty much did, it was take it or be steamrolled. But there wasn't any reason for the Jedi to command them, especially given the incredibly suspicious nature of it all from even preliminary investigation.

Oh, also, Infernally Clay, I did not see the Jedi being explicitly antagonistic towards Anakin. I asked earlier, got no answer, so I'll ask again. Please, detail that for me. They take him in as an older student. They pair him with a great Jedi. They treat him as they do other Jedi. Hell, they even let him go on a cushy protective service to Space Italy with a friend from his childhood! Those damned Jedi, always keeping Anakin down!

[Infernally Clay]

You got a source on that? Or is it just what you think?

I'm not going through all of this again, dude. I have gone into great detail about this stuff many times already and if you want to ignore all of my posts on the subject then that's your prerogative. Yoda himself says arrogance is becoming more and more common among Jedi, but apparently it's not real and I'm just making it up? If you don't want to discuss this stuff properly we can just leave it there.

[runeghost]

Yeah, Windu wasn't letting Palpatine out of that room alive. With Palpatine dead there would be no Order 66, because as far as we're aware only Palpatine or Dooku knew about it and could initiate it.

To think that all Windu needed to do was bring Anakin along and the Jedi Order may not have been wiped out and the Republic may not have fallen for a little while yet. Not only was Anakin far stronger than any of the other Jedi that Windu took with him, but Anakin would have seen the powerful and malevolent force that Palpatine truly was rather than the weak and dying old man that needed to be protected from the Jedi.

But that was the point, I s'pose. Palpatine knew the Council wouldn't trust Anakin enough to keep him in the loop even if he pointed them right to their sworn enemy. He knew they'd send their best and leave Anakin, their real best, at the Jedi Temple.

If Windu brings Anakin along on his illegal coup - Anakin who sees Palpatine as a sympathetic ear and mentor figure - then Palpatine simply plays the scene differently.

Most likely, he immediately surrenders to Anakin.

"Don't let their rhetoric fool you. This is an illegal coup, my friend. But I trust in your judgement, Anakin. I surrender to you, and I place my life, and the Republic, in your hands."

Now, Windu can either keep Palpatine under "house arrest" (leaving him able to pull strings behind the scenes to make the Order look terrible and manipulate Anakin further), or try to kill him and immediately force Anakin to team up with Palpatine against the Jedi.

To win, Mace and the Council need to persuade Anakin, to win him over to supporting their decisions (and make better decisions at the same time). And I don't think they can, because there's too much water under that bridge.

[Keltest]

See, I don't think the Jedi needed to involve themselves with the army. The Republic pretty much did, it was take it or be steamrolled. But there wasn't any reason for the Jedi to command them, especially given the incredibly suspicious nature of it all from even preliminary investigation.

Oh, also, Infernally Clay, I did not see the Jedi being explicitly antagonistic towards Anakin. I asked earlier, got no answer, so I'll ask again. Please, detail that for me.

Given that the Battle of Geonosis opened up with the Jedi taking command of the Clones to rescue themselves, I think I disagree with your conclusion. There's no backing away from that decision at that point. Even if their formal obligations to the Republic allow it, which seems a little dubious, the Jedi ducking out and hiding from a war that they, at that point, believe (correctly) to be about them, specifically, is a losing move no matter how suspicious the clones are.

On top of that, even if they do step away from the war somehow and do find out the truth about the clones somehow, what are they going to do about it? They can't eliminate the clones, theyre the Republic army at this point. The only winning move is to locate the Sith Lord, which theyre already trying to do, and the best path for that is, get this, to win the war and capture Dooku.

[Peelee]

I'm not going through all of this again, dude. I have gone into great detail about this stuff many times already and if you want to ignore all of my posts on the subject then that's your prerogative. Yoda himself says arrogance is becoming more and more common among Jedi, but apparently it's not real and I'm just making it up? If you don't want to discuss this stuff properly we can just leave it there.

You haven't said anything convincing. For example, Yoda's comments are not "this is proof that it was literally the purpose of the prequels". I've tried to have a "proper discussion". Unfortunately, it largely involves you making wild claims (eg "the Jedi were never competent"), later acting like nobody ever made such claims, and then ignoring follow-up questions.

I would love to have a proper discussion! Ready for it whenever you are.

Given that the Battle of Geonosis opened up with the Jedi taking command of the Clones to rescue themselves, I think I disagree with your conclusion. There's no backing away from that decision at that point.

Indeed. It's almost as if I disagree with them even doing that.

[Infernally Clay]

Its easy to say "this was wrong" but there is a pretty stark absence of what alternative measures they should have taken. Palpatine set things up to pretty harshly compel them to take these specific paths, so its not like they had a lot of choice about the things they did, especially involving the Clones. They knew something was up, but given the whole "enemy government led by someone trying to destroy us, specifically" thing going on, its not like they can just put the clones away until they know more about them. The CIS rolling over the Republic due to their lack of an army isnt the victory Palpatine expected, but he would sure take it if the Jedi gave it to him.

The Jedi didn't need to "put the clones away", they just needed to excuse themselves from the front lines of the war until they could figure out what was going on. I'm not entirely sure I get the logic behind "there's an enemy government specifically trying to destroy us and it's led by someone who commissioned the very army we're using to fight them so we'll just keep using that army and act like nothing is suspicious about this whole situation".

Like I said, as well, if the Jedi are worth 100~1000 battle droids, just mobilise 1000 more clones for each Jedi that's hanging back. If the Republic can't beat the Separatists without Jedi on the front lines that's a problem for the Republic. It was never the responsibility of the Jedi to win the war the Republic started when it refused the Outer Rim worlds the right to secede.

You can say Palpatine set things up pretty harshly but don't forget he merely took advantage of the situation, he didn't create it. The Senate was already corrupt long before he took office and the Jedi had been withdrawing from the galaxy for decades / centuries by then too.

You haven't said anything convincing. For example, Yoda's comments are not "this is proof that it was literally the purpose of the prequels". I've tried to have a "proper discussion". Unfortunately, it largely involves you making wild claims (eg "the Jedi were never competent"), later acting like nobody ever made such claims, and then ignoring follow-up questions.

I would love to have a proper discussion! Ready for it whenever you are.

Oh okay so now we're being dismissive and patronising. Yeah I think I'm done here. If you genuinely think "the Jedi had become arrogant and were withdrawing from the galaxy" is a wild claim then we have nothing to discuss.

[dancrilis]

See, I don't think the Jedi needed to involve themselves with the army. The Republic pretty much did, it was take it or be steamrolled. But there wasn't any reason for the Jedi to command them, especially given the incredibly suspicious nature of it all from even preliminary investigation.

My impression is that they felt they didn't have a choice - they saw it as their role to protect the republic and be guardians of its peace, the fact that the war occured indicated that they failed that role and so they needed to take center stage to try to restore peace otherwise there would be no reason for the republic to continue to support them and so their enemies gain a win anyway.

They pair him with a great Jedi.

They concede to the demand of the newest jedi knight in the order that he be allowed to train Anakin - and Yoda personally was still opposed, they might have been better asking Dooku to train him.

[Keltest]

Indeed. It's almost as if I disagree with them even doing that.

Well, you do that, and all the Jedi except Yoda die, so thats... you know, also somewhat ungood.

[Peelee]

My impression is that they felt they didn't have a choice - they saw it as their role to protect the republic and be guardians of its peace, the fact that the war occured indicated that they failed that role and so they needed to take center stage to try to restore peace otherwise there would be no reason for the republic to continue to support them and so their enemies gain a win anyway.

That's bad logic, though. Which, no surprise because I've never accused the prequel trilogy of having good writing, but even if we accept that, they don't need to command the clones. They could work as a separate unit themselves without any clone involvement.

They concede to the demand of the newest jedi knight in the order that he be allowed to train Anakin

Request, not demand. But hey, fair point, Kenobi was a brand new Jedi. So it was Kenobi screwing up, then? We see that or are told that, yes? Or do we just see Anakin have fascistic ideation and go do mini-genocides while hiding all that from Kenobi?

Again, not really seeing the Jedi being mean to Anakin.

[Errorname]

I have to admit, I find it kind of weird how much of the discussion of the prequel era seems to come back to crapping on the Jedi, when they were pretty much the only group in the entire galaxy who seem to have been consistently trying to make things better. The Senate reacted to Palpatine declaring himself emperor by giving him a standing ovation, the CIS literally started a galaxy-wide civil war, but apparently it's all the fault of the Jedi Council for being "arrogant" or something?

I think it's the disappointment. The Original Trilogy makes the Jedi seem truly mythical, noble protectors from better days, but when we actually meet them in the Prequels they're a staid bureaucracy who spend the entire trilogy fumbling in the dark while Palpatine spins the ball on his finger.

People expected nothing from the Senate and nothing from the bad guys, but the Jedi were supposed to be cool and wise and they really weren't.

If the solution is to pull out of the war, it kind of hits a snag if Palpatine has the ingenious idea of saying no, and sends the very betrayed feeling Clones to conscript them. The Separatists also can continue to attack whenever they want.

There is a reasonable argument that they're completely cooked by the end of AOTC. Like Palpatine has them in complete checkmate and are only spared as long as they are because Palpatine has other business to tend to that needs to happen before he goes full mask off.

That said, yes pulling out of the war is literally their only good option. It will still be disastrous, but they might be able to hold the actual order together and retreat to the Outer Rim.

The Jedi live in a mushroom shaped temple, seem to own like two sets of clothing, one laser sword, and don't really want anything else. They are not your cool bro, and if the Jedi are right, you aren't. Basically they're space vegans, and nothing is more off putting in a self indulgent consumerist culture than somebody deliberately making their lives harder for moral reasons that give them no tangible benefit and which you refuse to adopt. Which is why everybody whines about vegans*, and the Jedi have to be arrogant and stupid and cruel.

I do think "are the Jedi right" is a pretty fair question to be asking. Stuff like the Jedi recruiting force sensitive children and taking them from their families is pretty questionable in ways the film clearly wants to explore. I do not think we are meant to understand Anakin leaving Shmi behind as a good thing, ultimately.

And it's already really attractive to pick at the Jedi, and the notion that you can do everything right and still get obliterated is deeply uncomfortable so the Jedi have to be flawed.

Again, did the Jedi do everything right. Accepting an army of slave soldiers no questions asked and appointing yourselves generals is pretty dubious, and that choice gets the vast majority of the Jedi killed.

To win, Mace and the Council need to persuade Anakin, to win him over to supporting their decisions (and make better decisions at the same time). And I don't think they can, because there's too much water under that bridge.

It basically has to be Obi-Wan. He's the only one who has enough of a connection to Anakin that he could sway him, which is why George writes him as being somewhere else.

Clone Wars also makes Ahsoka viable, and she is also conveniently elsewhere.

[Peelee]

Well, you do that, and all the Jedi except Yoda die, so thats... you know, also somewhat ungood.

A.) Wait, we're allowed to use future knowledge? Anyway, they took on the clones and all the Jedi except Yoda died, so... still ungood.
2.) Or they could simply not rescue Anakin and Kenobi, only those two die.
iii.) Or, even if they do choose to rescue them, only the Jedi in the arena die, which is not all the Jedi except Yoda.

Sounds like plenty of options which don't include "take command of a sudden army that sprang out of nowhere with funds that came from nowhere commissioned by a Jedi who is killed immediately afterwards who didn't tell anyone anything about it".

[Infernally Clay]

They concede to the demand of the newest jedi knight in the order that he be allowed to train Anakin - and Yoda personally was still opposed, they might have been better asking Dooku to train him.

That's actually a pretty good point. If the Jedi Order is all about giving up attachments and letting go, why didn't the Council give Anakin to a Jedi Master? Obi-Wan wasn't ready to take on a padawan of his own and he only sought to train Anakin because he felt it was his obligation to Qui-Gon. I'm not so sure handing Anakin to Dooku is necessarily a good idea given he was already working with Palpatine before the events of The Phantom Menace and that would inevitably be kinda awkward, but what about Mace Windu for example? Or even someone like Plo Koon?

I don't know how much things would have changed and it's largely pointless to discuss "what if" scenarios, but it's interesting to consider given the context that some people wish to act as though the Jedi Council was doing Anakin a huge favour by allowing him to become a Jedi at all and apparently want to argue that their benevolence absolves them of any mistakes they may have made in his upbringing.

[Keltest]

A.) Wait, we're allowed to use future knowledge? Anyway, they took on the clones and all the Jedi except Yoda died, so... still ungood.

No, I meant in the arena on Geonosis, not Order 66. Thats when the Jedi took command of the clones, to go rescue, well, themselves.

2.) Or they could simply not rescue Anakin and Kenobi, only those two die.

It is unclear to me that they were counting on the arrival of the clones to get them out of the Arena when they first went there.

iii.) Or, even if they do choose to rescue them, only the Jedi in the arena die, which is not all the Jedi except Yoda.

Its not literally all of them, but its a lot. The Jedi took some pretty massive casualties during the battle even with the rescue.

Sounds like plenty of options which don't include "take command of a sudden army that sprang out of nowhere with funds that came from nowhere commissioned by a Jedi who is killed immediately afterwards who didn't tell anyone anything about it".

I mean, you said it yourself that most of those options were flavors of "let a bunch of Jedi die." I am unclear as to how this is being presented as the superior decision. "I know we lost two thirds of the Order at Geonosis, but at least now we can sit and think about these clones in peace in case they try and kill us."

[Errorname]

I don't know how much things would have changed and it's largely pointless to discuss "what if" scenarios, but it's interesting to consider given the context that some people wish to act as though the Jedi Council was doing Anakin a huge favour by allowing him to become a Jedi at all and apparently want to argue that their benevolence absolves them of any mistakes they may have made in his upbringing.

It is so obviously a thing they do because Qui-Gon died and it was his last wish, they did not want to take this kid and they foist him off on to Obi-Wan mainly because they don't want to deal with him, and that knowledge hangs over every interaction Anakin has with Mace in particular.

No, I meant in the arena on Geonosis, not Order 66. Thats when the Jedi took command of the clones, to go rescue, well, themselves.

Yes, but "The Jedi all die in the arena" and "The Jedi all die in Order 66" are pretty similar outcomes, which I think was the point.

[Peelee]

No, I meant in the arena on Geonosis, not Order 66. Thats when the Jedi took command of the clones, to go rescue, well, themselves.

So was I. The Jedi didn't know they would all die without the clones in the arena. The second part was just me using future knowledge to go further down the path than you did. Either way, we're using post-hoc justifications.

Its not literally all of them, but its a lot. The Jedi took some pretty massive casualties during the battle even with the rescue.

I mean, you said it yourself that most of those options were flavors of "let a bunch of Jedi die." I am unclear as to how this is being presented as the superior decision. "I know we lost two thirds of the Order at Geonosis, but at least now we can sit and think about these clones in peace in case they try and kill us."

A.) Not two-thirds. Not a massive fraction of the Jedi. Not even a significant fraction. A good number, but not nearly as big as you're making out to be.
2.) The Jedi are a paramilitary group. If they can't handle acceptable losses or even the prospect of losses at all, they have no business being an actual military group.
iii.) If we look at the scene, it makes no sense logistically or strategically. Yoda and numerous clones with numerous gunships are on the way to Geonosis, many specifically to the arena. There are, separately, dozens of Jedi hidden throughout the arena without any clones. These two groups do not reveal themselves simultaneously but staggered. It's entirely done for narrative to have the bad-good-bad-good back and forth in the scene, but it's pretty ridiculous. Why take that many Jedi for a simple rescue? If you figure to overwhelm them for the rescue, why take all the clones and gunships as well, aren't that many Jedi already an overwhelming force?

[Keltest]

The separatist leaders were all at the arena as well, and I believe the Jedi knew that. Its possible they planned a double rescue/capture, and the execution just forced the timing to be wrong. The Jedi clearly showed up before the Clones did, which is not that improbable since they had fewer logistics to worry about, get to geonosis, see that the excrement has hit the oscillator, and move in to save their friends before they get eaten, not having been able to get in position quite as well as they would have liked.

I will concede, they could theoretically have decided to let Anakin, Padme and Obi-wan die, but I would argue that their role as Jedi would not have actually allowed them to make that decision in practice, under any circumstances.

[Peelee]

The separatist leaders were all at the arena as well, and I believe the Jedi knew that. Its possible they planned a double rescue/capture, and the execution just forced the timing to be wrong. The Jedi clearly showed up before the Clones did, which is not that improbable since they had fewer logistics to worry about, get to geonosis, see that the excrement has hit the oscillator, and move in to save their friends before they get eaten, not having been able to get in position quite as well as they would have liked.

So here's the bedrock of my problem with the prequels - they never try to tell us that. At this point, the separatists haven't tried to separate, there is no war, presumably nothing illegal has been done. Everyone operates more on audience knowledge than character knowledge. We see the leaders of the bad guys there, we see the main characters there, so the Jedi and clones go there. There's no in-universe reason give in story for everyone ro show up there all of a sudden, having seemingly all sort of knowledge they should not have. My impression was that Lucas was so concerned with getting all the pieces in place that he never considered explaining why those pieces were in place. Why are the Jedi mounting a rescue when they don't know Anakin has been captured? Why are they sending a hundred Jedi? Why are they backed with an army? Why do they know exactly where it's all going down? It's all surface level in-for-the-ride, nothing has any actual in-story reason for happening other than because it needs to for the next story beat and/or to look cool with way too much CGI.

I will concede, they could theoretically have decided to let Anakin, Padme and Obi-wan die, but I would argue that their role as Jedi would not have actually allowed them to make that decision in practice, under any circumstances.

Imean, sure, if they knew they were in danger of execution. But, again, they have no way of knowing this. And even then, if they calculated that they'd need a hundred Jedi and a literal army to pull it off, maybe the deaths of three people would be less than the deaths of more than three people, which anyone could reasonably expect the outcome to be. If you want to argue they'd want to save the Chosen One, they send that dude on potentially deadly missions constantly, as we are told and see in Episode 2. They clearly trust him to be able to handle himself on missions.

ETA: We also know that this isn't SOP for the Jedi just because one doesn't check in for a minute. There was no Jedi strike force that appeared on Naboo for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

[Errorname]

We see the leaders of the bad guys there, we see the main characters there, so the Jedi and clones go there. There's no in-universe reason give in story for everyone ro show up there all of a sudden, having seemingly all sort of knowledge they should not have. My impression was that Lucas was so concerned with getting all the pieces in place that he never considered explaining why those pieces were in place. Why are the Jedi mounting a rescue when they don't know Anakin has been captured? Why are they sending a hundred Jedi? Why are they backed with an army? Why do they know exactly where it's all going down? It's all surface level in-for-the-ride, nothing has any actual in-story reason for happening other than because it needs to for the next story beat and/or to look cool with way too much CGI.

Going just off memory I think Obi-Wan sends them a message saying he's found the Separatist council at a droid factory where they're making an army, at which point he is captured. This is how Anakin and Padme know to go after him, but it also means the Council are aware that the Separatists are mobilizing for war and have a Jedi captive.

[Keltest]

Going just off memory I think Obi-Wan sends them a message saying he's found the Separatist council at a droid factory where they're making an army, at which point he is captured. This is how Anakin and Padme know to go after him, but it also means the Council are aware that the Separatists are mobilizing for war and have a Jedi captive.

You are correct. Anakin actually specifically knows because he was the bridge beween Obi-wan and the Council. He passes on the message like Obi-wan asks, and then he and Padme fret a bit before going to rescue him themselves.

[Peelee]

Going just off memory I think Obi-Wan sends them a message saying he's found the Separatist council at a droid factory where they're making an army, at which point he is captured. This is how Anakin and Padme know to go after him, but it also means the Council are aware that the Separatists are mobilizing for war and have a Jedi captive.

You are correct. Anakin actually specifically knows because he was the bridge beween Obi-wan and the Council. He passes on the message like Obi-wan asks, and then he and Padme fret a bit before going to rescue him themselves.

That's fair for the army. But even then, prioritizing a Jedi prisoner over crippling the actual army they had is a horrible tactical decision, if the Jedi are going to commingle with the army. Doubly so by having the Jedi and the army be almost entirely separated. And even further exacerbated when they know there is already another Jedi actively working on freeing the captive.

It's still about getting things to happen without telling us why, or decisions being made which are objectively bad.