OOTS #1300 - The Discussion Thread

[DaOldeWolf]

with this move, we must be reaching the climax of this battle. I wonder if its time for an alternative way of finishing this up.

[Rinazina]

The moment I saw Sunny on the floor with Minrah I thought that's a bad idea.


Either way, I'm still putting my money on Calder likely smashing a hole through the dungeon that Team Evil will just straight up walk through it instead of going through all of Sereni's traps.

That's a compelling idea...

V is holding a potion so I assume they'll give it to Sunny.

I feel hir going to drink it and perhaps get back in shape, cos the encounter is far from be done..

The paladins can lay hands. I haven't followed the geekery thread of what level Lien is as a paladin and whether she has cure spells.

And after Sunny is healed, then telekinesis might bring them in the upper floor? I hope so, it time to get all the hands on the deck

Why is Sunny's eye closed as he bonks along on the floor? (Caution taught to him by Serini when his lens isn't in?)

because is close to be 0 hp? or some equivalent trauma?

I was prepared to lose Belkar, but it turns out I am not at all prepared to lose Bloodfeast. Please pull through, little king.

I cross my fingers, but really I don't know if after that epic showtime moment isn't time for his to depart to the Dinoheaven...

[Naysmith]

Now that the Paladins might get involved (flying up on Sunny), I'm getting surer of my theory that Calder will be spared. Possibly by V as part of the redemption they're heading to. (Yes, a preposition at sentence's end. Per the Oxford University English Department, that's not a rule.)

[Lord Torath]

Riffing on the comic title, I get the impression Calder has accomplished the short-term goal of getting Bloodfeast off his neck, but will this will be a turning point that loses him the longer-term battle, bringing the Sapphire Guard into the fight.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think the paladins are totally going to hitch a ride up on Sunny.

Makes sense.

Serini hasn't acted in this battle yet. I think that's about to change. Oh Calder, you think a dragon is powerful? Wait until you see a mother watching her child die, when that mother is an epic level rogue. The question isn't really whether or not she's going to kill you, the question is how much pain she'll inflict on the way.

Granny's got her guns ... (wands)

V is prepping to down a potion as Sunny bounces past. Anyone know what that green potion is likely to be?

Healing of some sort, given that the one in this strip is green.

Sunny is going to convey O Chul and Lian into the battle, and Serini is going to learn that these Paladins are not quite as Lawful Stupid as Soon. This will enhance trust of the Order both in terms of "able to face Xykon" and also "Hey, these people aren't stupid".

Hopefully.

Where is Mimi?

Probably around the corner to avoid dragon breath.

I wonder if Sunny can levitate the paladins with telekinesis

Guessing yes. (Not expert on 3.x spells, though).

The order and Sereni manage to beat down the dragon to near death. Calder, always trying to save his own skin, gasps out "I... I submit..."

Sereni: "Ha, Good try, but you don't have any paladins around to force us to agree this time!"

Soon and Lien (riding in on Sunny after healing her): "We have arrived!"

Sereni: "DAMMIT!"

Plausible, but I don't get the impression that Calder is interested in surrendering.

Maybe the paladins will find some other way to neutralize the threat, or some other way to finesse the laws. But I can't believe they're so stupid as to leave such a dangerous threat alive and dangerous behind them while they prepare to confront Xykon the same day.

O-Chul usually finds a way.

I'm quite certain it's squash, actually. Fits a bored manager-type just fine too.

Fair point.

My guess for 2 is "in pain and falling unconscious", and for 7, "actually unconscious". Do note how all the eyes are closed at that point.

I saw it but that didn't register. Knocked out by the extra bonks, I suppose.

[Heroic Lich]

Now that the Paladins might get involved (flying up on Sunny), I'm getting surer of my theory that Calder will be spared. Possibly by V as part of the redemption they're heading to.

I'm not so sure. O'Chull and Lien are flexible about how their oaths apply, and I think that in this situation they can be convinced to stand by and let the order kill Calder. Refusing to stop the murder of a surrendered foe doesn't break the Sapphire Guard oath apparently.
Honestly, it's more likely that V will try to stop the group, but even then I don't think that they will try.
I subscribe the the theory that Calder will split in a while and tangle with team evil, either helping them or trying to control them and tipping team evil off about how the Order of the Stick is definitely ahead of them.

[Tubercular Ox]

I feel like logically the paladins should just heal Sunny and rejoin the group, but narratively this feels like a reason to split them from the party. It is reaching the point where there are too many people to give focus to.

I've been saying this since we left Serini's house.

Wouldn't you consider them already split from the party, though? They have been separated and out of the combat, with no means to rejoin until now (potentially).

Does that mean I can collect on my bet that the party is going to split up? I was waiting for the paladins to start their own storyline, and if they did regroup with the party I had my statement prepared on how it was still proof that the party is too big. Rich is having to cycle characters in and out just to keep control of it all.

[Resileaf]

If you ask me, this is far more a set-up for an epic double jumping Smite Evil attacks from O-Chul and Lien when Sunny comes back from carrying them.

[Peelee]

Does that mean I can collect on my bet that the party is going to split up?

If you think it counts, sure, why not.

[Ghosty]

Oh... and what would happen about the stasis trap now that it is no longer supressed ???

Related question : was it already "not-suppressed" when the beam was centered on Calder Torso ?

What a great surprise for this Thursday.

I guess the stasis trap doesn't immediately turn back on. Which would be awkward, considering half the Order is in it too. I wonder what the refractory period is? Or if it can reset at all?

Sunny's Eye is closed because it probably hurts like hell after getting thwacked by a dragon tail. Like not getting your glove up in time, and taking a baseball or softball off your face. (No reason why I picked that example, none at all...)

OTOH, all of the Order's magic goodies now work too.

[woweedd]

Oh no. Poor Bloodfeast. Thank God he has his full hitpoints even shrunken down.

[DreamCreator]

Hey looks like Serini IS still around

Maybe she will actually DO something now

Fun strip. Bloodfest seems a more accurate shade smaller than Calder does in this most recent panel-angle.

Looks like a good moment now to see how Lien and O-Chul work together with the OOTSers against a formidable opponent.

I see a double-halfling rage getting activated soon, like next strip. Everyone's gotta protect their kids. Belkar will activate in defense of Bloodfeast. Serini will activate to defend Sunny. HALFLING ATTACK!!!!!

[chanman]

Yes, though that probably won't help much with being swallowed...

Would that result in some grotesque chestburster effect if the anti-magic ray was turned on Calder while Bloodfeast is inside his stomach?

[woweedd]

Hey looks like Serini IS still around

Maybe she will actually DO something now

Fun strip. Bloodfest seems a more accurate shade smaller than Calder does in this most recent panel-angle.

Looks like a good moment now to see how Lien and O-Chul work together with the OOTSers against a formidable opponent.

I see a double-halfling rage getting activated soon, like next strip. Everyone's gotta protect their kids. Belkar will activate in defense of Bloodfeast. Serini will activate to defend Sunny. HALFLING ATTACK!!!!!

Oh, that would be great as a chatacter moment. The two Halflings, both acting in defense of their non-humanoid friends. One, an Evil SOB who is slowly turning over a less bitter leaf, the other the heart of her group fallen to cynicism and bitterness.

[Ghosty]

...
I'm quite certain it's squash, actually. Fits a bored manager-type just fine too...

...My guess for 2 is "in pain and falling unconscious", and for 7, "actually unconscious". Do note how all the eyes are closed at that point.

That's likely a moot point given that Calder explicitly said he is not going to surrender again.

I guess ball puns are cricket in this forum... I too, also love "Rule of Thump", and suspect it comes from similar categorization as Firefly's "Chain of Command."

Great catch on Sunny's varying status. That fall probably stung too. Dollar General 'Cleric's Feather Fall', coming right up!

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth their throat chomped on by an Allosaur."

[DreamCreator]

Oh, that would be great as a chatacter moment. The two Halflings, both acting in defense of their non-humanoid friends. One, an Evil SOB who is slowly turning over a less bitter leaf, the other the heart of her group fallen to cynicism and bitterness.

YES. LOVE IT

[gbaji]

That's one hell of a lot harder hit than i thought on the first panel of it. Also, are the paladins going to hitch a ride on Sunny? I think the paladins are totally going to hitch a ride up on Sunny.

Yes. I think it's a good bet that at least one paladin will be riding Sunny (maybe one rides, and one gets TK'd?). But yeah, this seems like the means by which the paladins get themselves up and into the battle.

The moment I saw Sunny on the floor with Minrah I thought that's a bad idea.

From the art, it looks like Calder could have tail smashed Sunny pretty much no matter where they were. On the ground made sense, since Minrah wanted to be with Sunny (maybe helping out, healing, etc), and Haley didn't want to keep holding her up in the air. Of course, no one quite accounted for the bouncability of Sunny. But then, who does?

I am a bit surprised that a single tail slap did that much damage though. Sunny was completely unharmed prior to that hit. I'd expect even a young eye-thingie to have enough HPs to take one hit without going unconscious like that. Then again, rule of cool, and "bouncing beholder" kinda maybe says otherwise...

Either way, I'm still putting my money on Calder likely smashing a hole through the dungeon that Team Evil will just straight up walk through it instead of going through all of Sereni's traps.

I'd be shocked if this dungeon isn't hundreds of feet down under the ground through solid rock. Smashing a wall is one thing. Tunneling through a moutainside is a completely different one. It's kind of the quandary that Calder is in. Even if he wins/escapes, where does he go? We don't actually know where the exit to this place is.

Other than that, I don't see much they can help in the actual combat. O-Chul doesn't have a mount. Razor isn't likely to be useful here. They don't have any of the bigger spells and their smite evil isn't as good as Soon's.

They're both highly capable melee combatants. Calder, being a dragon, has tons of HPs, and decreasing those HPs is about the only way to defeat him. Having two more people with strong melee attacks would seem to be incredibly useful in this situation. Paladins get the same to-hit tables as fighters, so even if they don't have weapons on the same level as Roy's, they'll still be a significant asset to fighting against a dragon.

The only other way I think paladins can affect the combat is because Calder likely dropped attempting to dominate them due to Haley's bluff but might try to do that on the paladins if they show up?

Paladins do get protection from evil as a first level spell. And it does seem to be a pretty obvious one for a paladin to have ready. Paladins also get good saves, and get bonuses to saves (ok, maybe O'chul might not get much of this bonus). If anything, they are the least likely to actually be dominated or affected by spells of any kind of just about anyone in the party.

[BrotherHanson]

So at this point Calder’s horn-swap must be…something? I’d be surprised if it’s just an artistic oversight though.

Also, I hope we get to see an Epic Sneak Attack but I fear with or without that we’re about to see Serini get got. One of several points to the Calder fight could be to reassert that this is the Order’s story to finish. Better if Sunny isn’t there to see it happen.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And all told, Calder isn't even looking that much worse for the wear. Not good for the party. He looks hungry for dino nuggets, too.

He does appear to have serious looking wounds all over his body. Those things are mountains of hit points though, so maybe half health at worst. He doesn't seem to be panicking.

[Peelee]

I guess ball puns are cricket in this forum...

Sorry, I meant to say i appreciated it, i just didn't get a round to it earlier.

I too, also love "Rule of Thump", and suspect it comes from similar categorization as Firefly's "Chain of Command."

Exactly. Rule of thump: if an arrow can't go thump against it, the spell doesn't affect it.

[gatemansgc]

bloodfeast, nooooo

belkar needs to protect him right away

i guess sunny when recovered will bring the paladins to the battle?

[No good @ names]

If anything, they are the least likely to actually be dominated

I don’t know, Paladins might be into that sort of kinky stuff

[Provengreil]

He does appear to have serious looking wounds all over his body. Those things are mountains of hit points though, so maybe half health at worst. He doesn't seem to be panicking.

Oh, he's absolutely taken hits. I'm comparing the marks to the whole of his body, which is a significantly lower % of coverage than many of our heroes have been when they got really desperate.

[Metastachydium]

If you ask me, this is far more a set-up for an epic double jumping Smite Evil attacks from O-Chul and Lien when Sunny comes back from carrying them.

Well, Serini did sound like she needed some convincing that they are not utterly useless. And it would look cool.

Would that result in some grotesque chestburster effect if the anti-magic ray was turned on Calder while Bloodfeast is inside his stomach?

That's a mental image I didn't know I needed in my life. Thank you!

Paladins do get protection from evil as a first level spell. And it does seem to be a pretty obvious one for a paladin to have ready. Paladins also get good saves, and get bonuses to saves (ok, maybe O'chul might not get much of this bonus). If anything, they are the least likely to actually be dominated or affected by spells of any kind of just about anyone in the party.

And O-Chul is the absolute least likely to get affected by anything that targets Fort as well, in addition to being the guy who can casually tank several of Xykon's blasting spells in a row while naked and still keep going.

I don’t know, Paladins might be into that sort of kinky stuff

I mean, it happened before.

[Emperor Time]

I hope that Bloodfeast doesn't die because of this. And hope the paladins can help Sunny in some way.

[Zancloufer]

So at this point Calder’s horn-swap must be…something? I’d be surprised if it’s just an artistic oversight though.

It seems confusing at first, be he is actually upside-down in the last two strips. Makes it seem like the horn is on the wrong side but it isn't.

[Shining Wrath]

I just got the pun of "Short-Term Goal" (strip title).

Sunny is a soccer ball, bouncing into the goal.

And that will only be a short term win for Calder, as it allows for Paladin reinforcements.

[Peelee]

So is that counterpoint a Silver Dragon’s victory?

Aren't they all?

That's a mental image I didn't know I needed in my life. Thank you!

I mean, it happened before.

[Coppercloud]

I'm confused now... It's been two strips since Calder has been replaced by his opposite twin (notice how the broken horn has switched from right to left side) who may or may not be Trigak's mate looking for vengeance. But then where does that leave us with Fyron's son? Not to mention Redcloak's niece.
I'm poking fun at it but this is an amazing strip. Thank you immensely, Giant.

It seems confusing at first, be he is actually upside-down in the last two strips. Makes it seem like the horn is on the wrong side but it isn't.

My brain broke for a second after reading this but I'm still quite confident in saying that this isn't how geometry works.

[Vikenlugaid]

I don't know if anyone had said this before but... Why does Calder have the left horn broken instead of the right in the last two strips?