Level 8 Epic Spellcasting (without Dragonwrought)

[Tohron]

I was thinking about how to get Epic Spellcasting early without relying on the Venerable Dragonwrought Kobald = Great Wyrm interpretation or hired casters, and came up with this. It uses many of the same tricks as the Level 6 Epic Spellcasting build, but is self-sufficient. Google isn’t showing any earlier versions of this idea, though I might have missed something.

Tablula Rasa

TN Middle-Age Human Psionic Artificer 1/Cleric 1/Psionic Artificer +6

Ability Scores:
16 INT: 8 points
16 CHA: 8 points
Other scores: Optional

Feats:
1: Able Learner, Heighten Spell
3: Divine Metamagic(Heighten Spell)
5: Extraordinary Artisan(bonus)
6: Magical Artisan(Extraordinary Artisan) -> Epic Spellcasting

Items:
Mantle of Ascension(shoulders slot, ML 7 continuous Metamorphosis(112K gp value)
(7 * 4 * 2000 gp * 2(duration factor)) * 0.5(crafted) * 0.7(alignment restriction) * 0.9(skill restriction) * 0.75(Extraordinary Artisan) * 0.75(Magical Artisan) = 19,845 gp
This item requires the TN alignment, and needs a DC 27 Use Psionic Device check to activate. Activation enables the wearer to gain the physical stats and extraordinary special attacks (among other things) of a chosen monster of up to 7 HD. The wearer will remain in this form continuously until the item is activated again.
Hat of Charisma(head slot, ML 8, +6 CHA(Animal Affinity)(36K gp value)
(6^2 * 1000 gp) * 0.5(crafted) * 0.7(alignment restriction) * 0.9(skill restriction) * 0.75(Extraordinary Artisan) * 0.75(Magical Artisan) = 6,379 gp
If Tabula Rasa cannot use turn attempts from domains that grant other forms of turning (like the Plant or Earth domain) to fuel Divine Metamagic, this item, which requires TN alignment and a DC 28 Use Psionic Device check to equip, boosts his CHA to 22, boosting his total available turn attempts to 9.
ML 7 Psychic Reformation Power Stone(700 gp value): 197 gp

WBL for an 8^th level character is 27K gp, so Tabula Rasa will have significant remaining resources if he can fuel Divine Metamagic with other forms of turning, but will be rather constrained if he has to create a +CHA item. If he starts with more than 16 CHA, that can reduce the cost of the +CHA item needed.

The Trick
Tabula activates the Metamorphosis item to turn into a Least Dusk Giant, after procuring a large quantity of livestock. A Least Dusk Giant has 6 HD, so it is a valid option for a ML 7 Metamorphosis. He then repeatedly uses their Cannibalize special attack to devour them and increase his own HD as a result. Once his total HD is over 20, he activates the Psychic Reformation power stone, and pays the 400 xp necessary to do a full reformation.

Even if he started at 16 INT and never increased it, he gains 30 skill points from classes, 24 from INT, and 8 from Human prior to level 6. That is more than enough to allocate 24 to Spellcraft and 24 to Knowledge(religion). Thanks to the HD from Cannibalize, he is able to allocate that many points to those two skills. Thus, when considering qualifications for which feats he can convert his 6^th-level feat into, he meets the HD prerequisite for Epic feats(since the Metamorphosis is continuous), the skill prerequisites for Epic Spellcasting, and can cast 9^th level divine spells (by spending 9 turn attempts to heighten a 1st level divine spell to 9th level with Divine Metamagic).

Thus, he is able to convert his 6^th level feat into Epic Spellcasting. As long as he keeps the Cannibalize-gained HD, he will still qualify for it, and be able to use it. However, he still needs to build up to the point where he can full leverage his newfound potential.

Gaining Unlimited Cosmic Power
To be able to use arbitrarily powerful epic spells, Tabula must obtain a pool of loyal spellcasters to mitigate the costs with their spell slots. This begins with using the Life seed to start converting inanimate plants into sapient, friendly plants. The base DC for this is 27. Increasing the casting time to 10 minutes reduces the DC to 9, and adding 9d6 backlash drops it to 0. Tabula can now research it for free, and use it up to twice a day (as long as he passes the DC 11 Will save).

He can then use the Transform seed to give them casting ability. The base DC for that seed is 21, and it can give the target the innate spellcasting ability of any creature of up to 15 HD with no further DC adjustment, with a Permanent duration. Increasing the casting time to 10 minutes reduces the DC to 3, but backlash is not viable for further DC reduction, since it would be dealt every round, permanently. Tabula can get the remaining mitigation by either increasing the casting time to 2 days, hiring a 3^rd level caster, or using the slots from a spellcaster enabled by a previous casting. Regardless of the method, Tabula can get the DC down to 0, making it free to research.

Once Tabula’s pool of loyal casters starts to grow, he can look into more efficient use of his two epic slots each day. Initially, he can combine the Life and Transform Seeds of his earlier spells (base DC 48). As his mitigation pool grows further, he can switch to a Summon seed with a Permanent duration (base DC of 170 for one CR 10 outsider, 1,700 for ten, etc. – DCs of 270, or 2,700 respectively for CR 20 outsiders). For comparison, a 3^rd level slot mitigates 5 DC, and a 6^th level slot mitigates 11 DC, so it may be some time before this method really gets going.

As his means expand, he can start putting his epic slots to more practical use: Armor seed for permanent arbitrary touch AC, Conceal seed for permanent invisibility with arbitrarily-high CL for the opposed CL check to detect, Conjure+Life+Fortify to create new creatures, Energy seed for arbitrary damage, Fortify seed for permanent, arbitrary bonuses to ability scores, saves, and arbitrary temp HP, and the Ward seed to permanently block specific spells(useful to prevent his Metamorphosis item from being disrupted). Seeds can be combined for more efficient use of Tabula’s epic slots.

At this point, Tabula can do basically whatever he wants, so further explanation is unnecessary. The only question is, are there any reasons this wouldn’t work?

Oh, and an amusing tidbit: epic spells cast by Tabula would technically be Caster Level 1.

[loky1109]

Thus, he is able to convert his 6th level feat into Epic Spellcasting.

I'm not sure he can. I heard you need 21th feat slot for that.

[InvisibleBison]

I'm not sure he can. I heard you need 21th feat slot for that.

Yeah, Psychic Reformation requires you to "abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats", which means even if you're an epic character you can't take epic feats with any of your first seven feat selections. But there's no reason why Tabula can't just cannibalize a bit more, gain a 15th giant hit die, and take epic spellcasting as his 21st level feat.

[ShurikVch]

Maybe, I'm too sleepy, - but how you got 9th-level spell slot?
(No - you, actually, can't "just DMM it")

[Tohron]

Seems I hadn't quite considered how the added HD from Cannibalize would affect the points at which feats are gained. I think that if Cannibalize is giving 13 HD, that would result in the 21st level feat slot lining up with Tabula's final Psionic Artificer level, and the positions of his other feats being moved around? The most cheesy interpretation would allow him to not choose to change the feats in the old positions, while choosing new feats in the new positions after the added HD reshuffle the position where he unlocks new feats. Even if that's not an option, I suppose he could choose to spend more XP on the Psychic Reformation to get additional feats and skill points from his Humanoid (or Monstrous Humanoid?) HD?

Maybe, I'm too sleepy, - but how you got 9th-level spell slot?
(No - you, actually, can't "just DMM it")

Epic Spellcasting for divine casters requires "ability to cast 9th-level divine spells". It never mentions needing any spell slots.

[ShurikVch]

Epic Spellcasting for divine casters requires "ability to cast 9th-level divine spells". It never mentions needing any spell slots.

If you don't have 9th-level spell slot(s) - then you're unable to Heighten spell into 9th-level (and thus - actually incapable to "cast 9th-level divine spells")

[Tohron]

If you don't have 9th-level spell slot(s) - then you're unable to Heighten spell into 9th-level (and thus - actually incapable to "cast 9th-level divine spells")

Heightening a spell from 1st to 9th level would increase its level by 8. Thus, from the text of Divine Metamagic, Tabula could spend 1 + 8 = 9 turn/rebuke attempts, as a free action, to Heighten a 1st level spell he is casting to 9th level. He would thus be casting a 9th level spell, and therefore, he is able to cast 9th level divine spells.

DMM Persisted Divine Power would require a 10th level slot to cast without DMM, but I haven't seen any arguments that pre-epic clerics should not be able to use it as a result.

[ShurikVch]

Heightening a spell from 1st to 9th level would increase its level by 8. Thus, from the text of Divine Metamagic, Tabula could spend 1 + 8 = 9 turn/rebuke attempts, as a free action, to Heighten a 1st level spell he is casting to 9th level. He would thus be casting a 9th level spell, and therefore, he is able to cast 9th level divine spells.

Metamagic adjustment of Heighten Spell is +0 - it just actually changes the level of the spell
You don't even need DMM to cast it - but you desperately need higher-level spell slot(s)

[Crake]

You realise this isnt “how to get epic spellcasting at level 8” its “how to level up to epic levels very quickly”

By getting X amount of dusk giant HD, your level actually increased by X.

But this has been available since 3.5 launch by just using bhargest and supernatural acquisition or whatever (im afb and cant remember the feat name)

[Tohron]

You realise this isnt “how to get epic spellcasting at level 8” its “how to level up to epic levels very quickly”

By getting X amount of dusk giant HD, your level actually increased by X.

But this has been available since 3.5 launch by just using bhargest and supernatural acquisition or whatever (im afb and cant remember the feat name)

Turning into a Barghest and using Assume Supernatural Ability to get Feed would be another way to get HD gain, but I'm not seeing how to benefit from it prior to level 7, since you'd need Reserves of Strength to Alter Self into a (6 HD) Barghest, which doesn't work if it comes from a continuous-duration item, and you need the shape-changing effect to be from a continuous item in order to keep the HD you gain continuously. And you still need Psychic Reformation to allocation 24 ranks to Spellcraft and Knowledge(Religion) afterward, not to mention it requiring an additional feat compared to the Dusk Giant option.

Thanks for mentioning it though, and yeah, a method for rapidly gaining Epic Spellcasting will by definition also be a method for rapidly qualifying for Epic in general. Getting Epic Spellcasting in particular does require jumping through a few additional hoops, though I basically copied those methods over from the original Level 6 (dragonwrought kobold) Epic Spellcasting build.

Metamagic adjustment of Heighten Spell is +0 - it just actually changes the level of the spell
You don't even need DMM to cast it - but you desperately need higher-level spell slot(s)

The description of Divine Metamagic does not talk about "metamagic adjustment", it says "plus an additional attempt for each level increase in the metamagic feat you're using". I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Heightening a spell's level from 1st to 9th constitutes 8 "level increases". And since Divine Metamagic is applied at the time you cast a spell, it's never going to affect what slot a spell uses.

[Crake]

you need the shape-changing effect to be from a continuous item in order to keep the HD you gain continuously. And you still need Psychic Reformation to allocation 24 ranks to Spellcraft and Knowledge(Religion) afterward

Once you have the HD, you have the HD, you dont need the feed ability to maintain the HD.

Also, HD come with skill points, you dont need psychic reformation to reallocate your old skill points, just assign the new points into spellcraft and knowledge.

[Tohron]

Once you have the HD, you have the HD, you dont need the feed ability to maintain the HD.

Also, HD come with skill points, you dont need psychic reformation to reallocate your old skill points, just assign the new points into spellcraft and knowledge.

Good points, thanks! Looking at the text of Feed does make clear that the added HD are not an ongoing effect.

It feels like it might be possible to get this going with a Wizard 3/Cleric 1 using flaws to get Reserves of Strength at level 1 (and Assume Supernatural Ability at level 3), there's just the downside that they need to be a 0 LA Outsider to Alter Self into a Barghest, which means no Able Learner, and raises the question of whether the added Feed HD would consider Spellcraft and Knowledge to be class skills.

[Crake]

and raises the question of whether the added Feed HD would consider Spellcraft and Knowledge to be class skills.

They probably wouldnt, but outsiders get 8+int skill points per hd, more than enough to put max cross class ranks in both, and since they would have been class skills for wizard, their max ranks would remain level+3 regardless

[Tohron]

...and since they would have been class skills for wizard, their max ranks would remain level+3 regardless

Huh, didn't know that. Guess the main limiting factor for this method of advancement is the need to defeat and consume a bunch of high HD humanoids, including at least three 20 HD humanoids, in order to actually reach 21 HD, which is obviously a good deal harder than just buying a bunch of cows. Thus, even though a Tiefling Wizard 3/Cleric 1 could do it starting at ECL 5 instead of ECL 8, it still feels like a stretch to say that the Barghest approach can be accomplished "faster".

[Crake]

Huh, didn't know that. Guess the main limiting factor for this method of advancement is the need to defeat and consume a bunch of high HD humanoids, including at least three 20 HD humanoids, in order to actually reach 21 HD, which is obviously a good deal harder than just buying a bunch of cows. Thus, even though a Tiefling Wizard 3/Cleric 1 could do it starting at ECL 5 instead of ECL 8, it still feels like a stretch to say that the Barghest approach can be accomplished "faster".

I didnt say faster, i said it was available earlier in the irl publication cycle, sorry if i wasnt clear what i meant by that.