Ideas for taking druid multiclass to 15

[SourDragon]

Hi all,

Had a conversation with my GM recently and found out that the campaign we are playing in will likely come to conclusion around level 15.

My character is an aarakocra currently at level 10 - 9 levels in moon Druid and 1 level in Monk.
Currently have wis 20 and dex 18 with other stats 10 and a 12 con.

I wanted a primarily combat wildshape character (the monk multiclass to use unarmoured defence for bulk both wild shaped and not) and presuming the next logical step is to take that final 10th level in druid for access to elementals what would be a good step for the last 4 levels? I have discussed idea of a peace or twilight cleric dip and don't know if it's worth going back to druid for 3 levels or continuing cleric till 15 or even monk levels although I know ki points would struggle- going for druid I know I could grab a feat which could prove potent but have not thought too much about the potential there...

Is there anything I should be considering or that I am missing to truly make use of the limited levels left and getting some more utility, power or neat interactions? *A note that my character has a necklace that allows limited use spellcasting whilst wildshaped if that changes anything*

Any helpful stuff or advice much appreciated ^_^

[notthegiant]

Take Druid up to 10 for Earth Elemental, followed by Monk 2 and 3 for Unarmored Movement, Flurry of Blows, and a subclass of your choice, for which I recommend Open Hand. Four attacks per turn, two of which might shove your target prone, each dealing 14 damage. And of course you also get all of the standard benefits of an Earth Elemental wildshape like damage resistances and burrowing.

After that is up to you. Keep in mind that you don't need Extra Attack because monsters get Multiattack. Twilight and Peace Cleric are great for all kinds of stuff, but might be hard to justify from a roleplay standpoint. Adding 2d4 to most of your party's rolls is crazy though. Going Monk 4 or Druid 12 for a feat could be nice too.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hi all,

Had a conversation with my GM recently and found out that the campaign we are playing in will likely come to conclusion around level 15.

My character is an aarakocra currently at level 10 - 9 levels in moon Druid and 1 level in Monk.
Currently have wis 20 and dex 18 with other stats 10 and a 12 con.

I wanted a primarily combat wildshape character (the monk multiclass to use unarmoured defence for bulk both wild shaped and not) and presuming the next logical step is to take that final 10th level in druid for access to elementals what would be a good step for the last 4 levels? I have discussed idea of a peace or twilight cleric dip and don't know if it's worth going back to druid for 3 levels or continuing cleric till 15 or even monk levels although I know ki points would struggle- going for druid I know I could grab a feat which could prove potent but have not thought too much about the potential there...

Is there anything I should be considering or that I am missing to truly make use of the limited levels left and getting some more utility, power or neat interactions? *A note that my character has a necklace that allows limited use spellcasting whilst wildshaped if that changes anything*

Any helpful stuff or advice much appreciated ^_^

Get Druid to 10: elemental wild shape. Good stuff.
At level 11 Druid you unlock level 6 spells:
Bones of the Earth: not sure I'd recommend that.
Conjure Fey:decent.
Druid Grove: can be decent, depends on situation.
Find the Path: have not used, not sure.
Heal: good.
Heroes' Feast: very good. (A bit expensive for Material components)

Investiture of Flame
Investiture of Ice
Investiture of Stone
Investiture of Wind

The above can be useful, but it's situationally dependent.
Move Earth: not bad.
Primordial Ward: not sure, there are some situations where this is very good
Sunbeam: nice
Transport via Plants: Very nice
Wall of Thorns: good
Wind Walk : most excellent mobility spell

May as well Monk Away after that. I like Way of the Sun Soul.
But Mercy might fit what you need.

[Psyren]

Yeah I would definitely do Druid 11 before getting more monk. Then either Druid 12 Monk 3 or Druid 11 Monk 4, either one gets you a last ASI to round things off.

[SourDragon]

Take Druid up to 10 for Earth Elemental, followed by Monk 2 and 3 for Unarmored Movement, Flurry of Blows, and a subclass of your choice, for which I recommend Open Hand. Four attacks per turn, two of which might shove your target prone, each dealing 14 damage. And of course you also get all of the standard benefits of an Earth Elemental wildshape like damage resistances and burrowing.

After that is up to you. Keep in mind that you don't need Extra Attack because monsters get Multiattack. Twilight and Peace Cleric are great for all kinds of stuff, but might be hard to justify from a roleplay standpoint. Adding 2d4 to most of your party's rolls is crazy though. Going Monk 4 or Druid 12 for a feat could be nice too.

I've discussed with GM and at our current point in our campaign my character is having intrusive thoughts and voices from the big bad and the idea is a level of peace cleric would be divine intervention to help with the bad thoughts from a role play perspective and the emboldened bond is such an amazing support feature.

I do think a couple levels of extra monk would be nice, it's just whether the subclass features would be of a good benefit that meshes well with wildshape, open hand seems like the best one but I'm not sure as unfamiliar with monk subclasses in general and the reliance on ki is a known issue.

Thanks for your input! First time posting here!

[SourDragon]

Get Druid to 10: elemental wild shape. Good stuff.
At level 11 Druid you unlock level 6 spells:
Bones of the Earth: not sure I'd recommend that.
Conjure Fey:decent.
Druid Grove: can be decent, depends on situation.
Find the Path: have not used, not sure.
Heal: good.
Heroes' Feast: very good. (A bit expensive for Material components)

Investiture of Flame
Investiture of Ice
Investiture of Stone
Investiture of Wind

The above can be useful, but it's situationally dependent.
Move Earth: not bad.
Primordial Ward: not sure, there are some situations where this is very good
Sunbeam: nice
Transport via Plants: Very nice
Wall of Thorns: good
Wind Walk : most excellent mobility spell

May as well Monk Away after that. I like Way of the Sun Soul.
But Mercy might fit what you need.

It sounds like there is a few spells that stand out but no automatically great spells so thinking more levels of either Monk or cleric might be of more benefit than the access to 6 level spells? Although it's hard to think of any one subclass and it's third level features being better than access to 6 level spells and a couple more slots (in the case of monk) or access to lower level cleric spells (that continue slot progression)

It's certainly interesting to think of options!

[SourDragon]

Yeah I would definitely do Druid 11 before getting more monk. Then either Druid 12 Monk 3 or Druid 11 Monk 4, either one gets you a last ASI to round things off.

So not keen on any cleric levels in lieu of a Monk subclass? Interested to know if you think the power of a Monk subclass at level 3 is worth over cleric subclass at level 1.

[KorvinStarmast]

It sounds like there is a few spells that stand out but no automatically great spells so thinking more levels of either Monk or cleric might be of more benefit than the access to 6 level spells? Although it's hard to think of any one subclass and it's third level features being better than access to 6 level spells and a couple more slots (in the case of monk) or access to lower level cleric spells (that continue slot progression)

It's certainly interesting to think of options!

Heroes Feast is really good.

The four investure? Not so much.
Wind Walk is IMO a 'must pick' unless you do no traveling in your campaign.

[Bardon]

Heroes Feast is really good.

The four investure? Not so much.
Wind Walk is IMO a 'must pick' unless you do no traveling in your campaign.

I have to agree, Wind Walk is a *massive* game-changer. Definitely a "must pick" unless everyone can teleport.

[SourDragon]

I think the difficulty I've currently got is the difference in power between 12 level Druid and 3 monk to get that subclass and the druid ASI and what could be druid 10 with peace cleric 1 and 4 levels of monk to get final ASI. Or even druid 10 cleric 4 monk 1 for spell slot progression and ASI.

I'm not too fussed on wind walk as the group have a way to get around and so really I think 6th level spells don't really compare to something like the lucky feat and emboldened bond or something like astral monk for wisdom based grapples 🤷 just not sure which route but I think I'm settling on Cleric 1 monk 4 because 2 cleric cantrips, 1st level spells emboldened bond and an ASI feel like the optimal route compared to what else has been suggested- but honestly I'm still opento rationale why a different route might be better!

This is considering my character survives to level 15 😅

[Psyren]

So not keen on any cleric levels in lieu of a Monk subclass? Interested to know if you think the power of a Monk subclass at level 3 is worth over cleric subclass at level 1.

Why not both? You could do Druid 11/Monk 3/Cleric 1. But I'm unsure on what your goals/concepts are for the character.

[SourDragon]

Why not both? You could do Druid 11/Monk 3/Cleric 1. But I'm unsure on what your goals/concepts are for the character.

Well I just want to squeeze any potential out of my limited options and having fun exploring this! -you are right in that I could get two subclasses and what I really want is versatility than anything. It's just getting both level 6 spells, cleric level, astral monk features misses out on an ASI such as Lucky and so really it's a balance between what provides more utility out of the mix of ehat can be achieved; level 6 spells~peace cleric~astral monk~ASI /Lucky feat.

Honestly I think it's more of whether taking any levels in any direction provides that much benefit when compared to what could be. Is Astral monk, peace cleric and ASI better than access to 6 leveled spells, or is having the cleric levels for Channel divinity and an ASI (and spell slot progression) worth over the potential gains from any further monk or Druid levels? (Gains meaning potential options for increased power, utility or supporting the group).

[Sherlockpwns]

It’s probably true that elementals are better than what I am about to write but… you already have the CR3 form, and it’s not unthinkable that two giant scorpion shape changes are better than one elemental. So why not consider Monk 6?

I think there are 3 standout possibilities. Open palm, shadow, and drunk.

Obviously with most of the plans above you are already considering the benefits of 5 levels so all that really matters here is what do you get for that level 6?

Well they all get 1 more ki (always nice) and 5 movement speed (who would say no?).

And of course the subclass benefit.

Open palm has arguably the better level 3 ability. A small heal at 6 is icing on that cake. It’s been talked about plenty, you get it.

Shadow and drunk however is kind of the opposite. You really only get to the true power of this combo at level 15.

Shadow will let you teleport in dim light. When shaped you’ll have plenty of bonus actions available and being able to teleport a giant scorpion anytime it’s dim is huge both in RP flavor and power. Plus the crappy to hit of your sting attack will benefit greatly from the advantage it gives. Teleporting scorpion is a 10/10 assassin nobody sees coming.

Drunk on the other hand is a significantly more dangerous brawler than the others; at least when facing multiple opponents. Spending your ki to flurry is fine and all, but you are doing like 1d6+5 twice at best. Being able to redirect up to 6 attacks per rest instead is potentially significantly more dangerous. Now the downside is the AC of your form is going to be pretty bad, but thanks to bounded accuracy you’re still quite likely to see plenty of misses. That final level will really make you a threat for groups of heavy hitters.

Anyway my point is as cool as elements are, I think it’s worth considering the alternative. If it came online sooner the hands down choice for me would be teleporting scorpion. But ymmv

[SourDragon]

It’s probably true that elementals are better than what I am about to write but… you already have the CR3 form, and it’s not unthinkable that two giant scorpion shape changes are better than one elemental. So why not consider Monk 6?

I think there are 3 standout possibilities. Open palm, shadow, and drunk.

Obviously with most of the plans above you are already considering the benefits of 5 levels so all that really matters here is what do you get for that level 6?

Well they all get 1 more ki (always nice) and 5 movement speed (who would say no?).

And of course the subclass benefit.

Open palm has arguably the better level 3 ability. A small heal at 6 is icing on that cake. It’s been talked about plenty, you get it.

Shadow and drunk however is kind of the opposite. You really only get to the true power of this combo at level 15.

Shadow will let you teleport in dim light. When shaped you’ll have plenty of bonus actions available and being able to teleport a giant scorpion anytime it’s dim is huge both in RP flavor and power. Plus the crappy to hit of your sting attack will benefit greatly from the advantage it gives. Teleporting scorpion is a 10/10 assassin nobody sees coming.

Drunk on the other hand is a significantly more dangerous brawler than the others; at least when facing multiple opponents. Spending your ki to flurry is fine and all, but you are doing like 1d6+5 twice at best. Being able to redirect up to 6 attacks per rest instead is potentially significantly more dangerous. Now the downside is the AC of your form is going to be pretty bad, but thanks to bounded accuracy you’re still quite likely to see plenty of misses. That final level will really make you a threat for groups of heavy hitters.

Anyway my point is as cool as elements are, I think it’s worth considering the alternative. If it came online sooner the hands down choice for me would be teleporting scorpion. But ymmv

That is such an interesting point! Definitely worth considering the fact of honing in on monk- druid duality and capitalising on the benefits of the extra levels of monk to enhance the wildshapes which is certainly the direction I want to focus on.

It feels like the difference between burst and sustained damage/survivability. Elementals burn two slots of wildshape and will arguably be stronger within the wildshape window until downed or expired. Outside of that, in longer adventuring days without short rests, the dependency on monk/spellcasting would be emphasised and I really want to shore up on glaring problems that could arise.
Comparing that to your solution of skipping elemental and capitalising on monk fir an extra two levels to add more ki, the level 6 subclass feature, and the current usefulness of using two slots for two separate wildshapes that coincide with those abilities. Not to mention still benefiting from an ASI boost which going full on monk could justify rounding off dex at 20.

My current thoughts is that I'm pretty sold on a single cleric level of peace to be a better support and get access to 3 extra cantrips and a bless to add to the emboldened bond. Add into this my thoughts on 4 levels of monk for astral and an ASI, which to Me provides a fair amount of benefit that furthers out of wildshape utility such as wisdom based grapples through spike growth for just 1 ki and then a cool feat like lucky.

My impression is even 6 ki would be limited even if using the ki sparingly across an adventuring day. To me 2 or 3 uses in a single fight is only 2-3 fights maximum and without a short rest, the more ki hungry monk features would leave you dry. Astral would at least guarantee 4 individual fights where that tactic could be used.

Very much appreciated your contributions!

[SourDragon]

Thinking about it, what I mentioned before, I'm not sure that a Monk subclass would add anything super strong to the build, I still think elemental is the way to go but feel actually that going druid 10, monk 1, cleric 4 might be the best; ASI is still there for a good feat, but the spell slot progression feels inherently better than the benefits monk may bring to the table further than the one level dip already.

Appreciate if there's any thoughts on doing this over cleric dip monk 4?

[Sherlockpwns]

Well, the big question is what spells do you really want here from cleric SL 2?

Otherwise adding more spell levels just gives your better upcasts, so what spells are you upcasting? I think that’s the big difference between 4 monk and 4 cleric.

So if you are the kind of caster that’s sending out summon Draco spirit upcasting is a big deal. But if you are focused more on spells that don’t scale I think the power gain from just casting more in general is far less. Not that the monk provides a ton either, so my hunch is cleric 4 is better, but I don’t think the cleric spells add that much utility or value, so why not just take more Druid levels? Not that I mind an extra spiritual hammer flying around, but that’s the only one that comes to mind.

[SourDragon]

Well, the big question is what spells do you really want here from cleric SL 2?

Otherwise adding more spell levels just gives your better upcasts, so what spells are you upcasting? I think that’s the big difference between 4 monk and 4 cleric.

So if you are the kind of caster that’s sending out summon Draco spirit upcasting is a big deal. But if you are focused more on spells that don’t scale I think the power gain from just casting more in general is far less. Not that the monk provides a ton either, so my hunch is cleric 4 is better, but I don’t think the cleric spells add that much utility or value, so why not just take more Druid levels? Not that I mind an extra spiritual hammer flying around, but that’s the only one that comes to mind.

You're right in I imagine the only spells that would be good to access is Aid and spiritual weapon.

Currently I'm not upcasting a bunch and really just want to keep as much 'progressing' as I can and spell slots are a valuable resource that's worth it's weight. So would it be worth going Druid 12, monk 1, cleric 2? Would get channel divinity and ASI. Sounds easier than navigating minimal ki for a Monk subclass, although there's so much to consider regarding the potential benefits of this over the former.

[Sherlockpwns]

My honest answer is D&D at level 15+ is just kinda nutty. Essentially you are asking if an action to heal 2d6 + 5 to a few targets and/or escape is worth simply going cl1 mk1 dr13, which or basically one cast of a level 7 spell per long rest… to which if all you care about is optimizing the hands down winner is a level 7 Druid spell.

Like, heal for 2d6 or turn into a dragon? Heal for 2d6 or literally turn the entire battlefield into an inferno. Heal for 2d6 or… you get the idea :)

Really high level D&D gets so silly you kind of need to have a few aces up your sleeve. Here is a few examples of what a level 13 Druid can do that a level 12 can not.

You can cast Draconic transformation before wildshape. Which means you can be an earth elemental or giant scorpion or whatever that has a 60ft cone breath weapon as a bonus action… and you can fly. Flying force breathing giant scorpion is almost as cool as a teleporting assassin one.

You can cast firestorm and turn into a fire elemental and fight inside the maelstrom.

Or you could just cast whirlwind and sit back and have a good time watching
Enemies get ejected upwards of 180ft in a random direction… and that’s the best outcome for them!

Or you could take a level in peace cleric and heal you and your pals for 2d6… +5. :)

[SourDragon]

My honest answer is D&D at level 15+ is just kinda nutty. Essentially you are asking if an action to heal 2d6 + 5 to a few targets and/or escape is worth simply going cl1 mk1 dr13, which or basically one cast of a level 7 spell per long rest… to which if all you care about is optimizing the hands down winner is a level 7 Druid spell.

Like, heal for 2d6 or turn into a dragon? Heal for 2d6 or literally turn the entire battlefield into an inferno. Heal for 2d6 or… you get the idea :)

Really high level D&D gets so silly you kind of need to have a few aces up your sleeve. Here is a few examples of what a level 13 Druid can do that a level 12 can not.

You can cast Draconic transformation before wildshape. Which means you can be an earth elemental or giant scorpion or whatever that has a 60ft cone breath weapon as a bonus action… and you can fly. Flying force breathing giant scorpion is almost as cool as a teleporting assassin one.

You can cast firestorm and turn into a fire elemental and fight inside the maelstrom.

Or you could just cast whirlwind and sit back and have a good time watching
Enemies get ejected upwards of 180ft in a random direction… and that’s the best outcome for them!

Or you could take a level in peace cleric and heal you and your pals for 2d6… +5. :)

Thank you for the detailed explanation! You have shown me the definitive of nova damage going straight druid from here on! I'm having a good think on what to do going forward :)

Thanks!