5E gestalt request yet again

[Lioslaith]

These 5E gestalt game requests seem to have difficulty holding together but I'd like to make yet another one. I'd like to play something stealth based. Possibly a start in a prison somewhere, recruited as a black ops group beholden only to the ruler type that employs them for a task, etc. The idea could certainly be fleshed out further or if a potential DM has something else in mind I'd be happy. Just want to run with the 5e gestalt mechanics.

EDIT: Ideally I'd love to see it mid to higher levels, shooting for 13-17th level.

[Lioslaith]

Not seeing a lot of interest. Is there something different I could propose to generate a better summoning?

[Stormwolf69]

I am interested but never played 5E before. I am interested in hearing what you had planned story-wise. but for most players, we do what to know what are the character creation rules you had in mind.

[Lioslaith]

Well I was purposefully trying to leave things open so the DM would have as much creative freedom as they needed.

[Stormwolf69]

Yes it is always harder to find a DM.

[AvatarVecna]

Tentative interest but I expect the usual lack of DM for quite some time...

[Lioslaith]

Tentative interest but I expect the usual lack of DM for quite some time...

Do you think trying to flesh out a better framework of an idea might attract someone?

[Dusk Raven]

"Starting in a prison" reminds me of a campaign idea I've had for a while... but it's largely a dungeon crawl.

More to the point, the only time I DM 5e is when it's heavily modified. I'll join 5e games on occasion, especially with Gestalt, but anything I'd want to run myself doesn't fit vanilla 5e. So while I'm interested as a player, I am not the one to DM.

[JNAProductions]

Do you think trying to flesh out a better framework of an idea might attract someone?

It can. No need to limit the prospective DM, but maybe some more solid pitches could help.

[Dr.Samurai]

Well... I was reading about the Book of Many Things and thinking it'd be cool to play as people that drew the Donjon card and are trapped in the Donjon Sphere and are trying to break free/revolt/take over.

Not sure if that'd be up anyone's alley.

[Lioslaith]

"Starting in a prison" reminds me of a campaign idea I've had for a while... but it's largely a dungeon crawl.

More to the point, the only time I DM 5e is when it's heavily modified. I'll join 5e games on occasion, especially with Gestalt, but anything I'd want to run myself doesn't fit vanilla 5e. So while I'm interested as a player, I am not the one to DM.

What would “heavily modified” actually entail?

I am unfamiliar with the Donjon sphere, what would that look like?

[Dusk Raven]

I wasn't aware there was a Donjon Sphere. As far as I knew, you were just trapped in semistasis inside a "cell" resembling a crystal orb, located in actual nowhere... with escape being impossible even if you weren't in suspended animation. But that might have just been my imagination.

What would “heavily modified” actually entail?

Well, there are a lot of variant 5e rulesets people have made, from Everyday Heroes (a 3rd-party version of the old d20 Modern) to Star Wars 5e (a fanmade conversion of 5e to work in the Star Wars system, naturally). At bare minimum, Spheres of Power, which if you're not familiar, is a variant ruleset that replaces Vancian casting with a system based around spell points and different "spheres" of magic (or of martial training). The reason I turn to these is partly because I like them better than base 5e, but also because I am compelled to create my own settings, and while I've found ways to fit, say, SW5e to settings of my own, standard 5e does not fit any of my settings. I used to use SoP for my main fantasy setting, but eventually this proved unsuitable, and now I'm having to design my own 5e variant. I've also not tried to design a setting to fit standard 5e... well, except for a "mirror universe" I started a brainstorming thread a while back, but I haven't done any serious thought regarding that in a while. I always did like the concept, though... I'm just working on too many other things at the moment. Like the aforementioned new 5e system.

[Lioslaith]

So you weren’t necessarily looking at specific alternatives in order to run something. It was more of a general statement?

Okay, so what I was envisioning was a group of PC’s that had been incarcerated either as a group or individually. Along comes a “forever prince”. Like a 3-4th in line for royal succession but won’t live long enough to actually be king. He tasks us with eliminating the current king though not out of a desire to be king but out of a desire to do good. The current king is very corrupt. Maybe that or possibly trying to bring and end to slavery in the realm as it is accepted and practiced as a way of life. This we would become the terrorists for doing the “right” thing.

Just ideas right now.

[Lioslaith]

Don’t guess it’s peaking any interest. Fudge.

[Triskavanski]

Its a shame, especially with server issues and other things in previous attempts.

[Lioslaith]

It could be a fun time I believe. I wouldn’t expect too many combat type challenges at that power level. It would mostly be character interaction and role play. Which to me is more fun than number crunching.

[samduke]

i would be interested as a player.. hope there is a gm out there for this

[Lioslaith]

I hear complaints about how hard the work is to dm something like this but in my mind the onus is on the players to carry a game at this level not the dm. They are just there to facilitate.

[AvatarVecna]

I hear complaints about how hard the work is to dm something like this but in my mind the onus is on the players to carry a game at this level not the dm. They are just there to facilitate.

I disagree for a number of reasons. But to summarize:

1) Games where players drive plot development (usually sandboxes, specifically designed so the DM doesn't have to figure out how to nicely railroad the party to the next plot place) end with players endlessly debating which options they wanna take, with very little ability to compromise because they're just "playing their characters" and it turns out the DM who didn't put the work into building the plot right is also the DM who didn't put the work into picking a compatible party.

2) Even if this game has zero plot and it's just a combat treadmill teleporting us from one fight to the next with rests now and then (which I imagine isn't what most people want anyway), balancing encounters for gestalt parties is just the worst. Gestalt characters have an easier time stacking offense than defense, so most gestalt characters tend towards being more glass cannony than they otherwise would be. This requires building monsters that can hit just hard enough just often enough to be meaningful without wiping the party out, while also being tough enough to actually survive a few rounds of the PCs novaing away, and most methods of solving that problem end up making encounters that are just kinda...boring? Making gestalt fights that are both balanced and fun is difficult and requires a DM who's putting in effort. I've had a gestalt game around lvl 7 where the party smoked a CR 20 creature straight out of the book, because it turns out our big numbers were better than its big numbers.

3) A game that starts and has a player who loses steam can continue without them. A game that starts and has a DM lose steam is over. It doesn't matter how many hundreds of thousands of words of fanfic material you have prepared for Angel//Paladin #527; if the DM isn't as excited to run as you are to play, you're not gonna reach any of the really juicy story ideas you've had before the game dies and you have to make another thread like this.

[Lioslaith]

Well let’s not turn this into a debate on our philosophical differences on how a game should be run and hope the activity inspires someone to actually step up and run something.