Smaller party, higher levels

[J-H]

I've been running some D&D on and off for my wife (Purple Dragon Knight, she wants something really simple), 10 year old (Evoker wizard), and 7 year old (Beastmaster ranger because it has a pet). They're about done doing some arena stuff, and based on what they said they want to play, my Castle Dracula campaign is actually a really great fit.

As written, it's for a party of about 5 starting at level 3 (total character levels = 15) and running to about level 12 (total levels = 60). I think starting a smaller party at level 5 is reasonable, but going to 20 is going to out-level most challenges. taking them up 3 levels to a max 15 seems about right, but I'm concerned that it will still leave them too weak in terms of action economy. Only one tank (AC, not damage resistance), one archer, one arcane caster, no healer, no condition removal at all, etc.
An NPC follow-along will not be a good fit here. I do plan to let them have max HP instead of average, and there's a decent spread of magic items for them to pick up.

Any experience / math suggestions on how to not TPK my entire immediately family or make them too over-leveled?

[Skrum]

I'm also running a game for my kids, age 11 and 8, so I guess I can offer some general advice? It sounds like you have a massive campaign that will end at a higher level than I've ever played at, so I don't have anything to say about that, but...

- I killed my wife's character in the very first session xD. So, I decided they needed some insurance and I gave them all a magical flower necklace that would auto-cast healing word on them if they went to zero. Only 1/LR, but like I said, insurance
- As much as I can, I contrive to make non-lethal combats. The enemies flee if they take too much damage, they're not seeking to kill the characters, there's options for other ways to resolve it, etc. Give them and myself an out
- But I think the biggest factor is 5e itself. Once I got them out of the very low levels, characters get pretty hard to kill, even for less experienced players. My son is playing a sharpshooter archer, and even though he's 8 he knows enough to get distance whenever possible and then just shoot. His character does a rather prodigious amount of damage and burns though most of what I throw at them
- Guide them! Teach them how to play. Yes you're the DM, but don't feel like you can't also teach them the finer points of DND tactics. "Ah you want to move? Well you have a few options, you can take the disengage action, which guarantees they won't hit you but you won't get to attack, or you can just move and they might hit you, or you can try to shove them 5ft back..." Laying out some options, especially when it's an opportunity to use a special ability they have, like that's a great way to both show them what their character can do and also make sure they don't make catastrophic blunders
- Make monsters that "play in to" their strengths, and have them make simple skill checks to identify the weakness. Show them what kind of questions they should be asking, how they should be thinking
- Yeah, probably don't hit them when they're down. This is a pretty easy release valve for the DM. If you don't try to kill the players, 5e makes it pretty hard for the characters to die

[GeneralVryth]

I'm also running a game for my kids, age 11 and 8, so I guess I can offer some general advice? It sounds like you have a massive campaign that will end at a higher level than I've ever played at, so I don't have anything to say about that, but...

- I killed my wife's character in the very first session xD. So, I decided they needed some insurance and I gave them all a magical flower necklace that would auto-cast healing word on them if they went to zero. Only 1/LR, but like I said, insurance
- As much as I can, I contrive to make non-lethal combats. The enemies flee if they take too much damage, they're not seeking to kill the characters, there's options for other ways to resolve it, etc. Give them and myself an out
- But I think the biggest factor is 5e itself. Once I got them out of the very low levels, characters get pretty hard to kill, even for less experienced players. My son is playing a sharpshooter archer, and even though he's 8 he knows enough to get distance whenever possible and then just shoot. His character does a rather prodigious amount of damage and burns though most of what I throw at them
- Guide them! Teach them how to play. Yes you're the DM, but don't feel like you can't also teach them the finer points of DND tactics. "Ah you want to move? Well you have a few options, you can take the disengage action, which guarantees they won't hit you but you won't get to attack, or you can just move and they might hit you, or you can try to shove them 5ft back..." Laying out some options, especially when it's an opportunity to use a special ability they have, like that's a great way to both show them what their character can do and also make sure they don't make catastrophic blunders
- Make monsters that "play in to" their strengths, and have them make simple skill checks to identify the weakness. Show them what kind of questions they should be asking, how they should be thinking
- Yeah, probably don't hit them when they're down. This is a pretty easy release valve for the DM. If you don't try to kill the players, 5e makes it pretty hard for the characters to die

I agree with all of the above.

I would also add:
- Try to find reasons why it makes sense not to hit the entire party with a powerful ability (Dragon Breath). You don't want to be in a position where everyone rolling bad turns in to a TPK, you want to leave room to create outs.
- Have ways for the party to fail without it being campaign ending (the characters being captured instead of kills is a classic).
- Assume the characters have an appropriate level of competence and expertise based on the in game world, and if a player doesn't match it don't be afraid to off checks to provide hints or just provide them directly. The average character is almost certainly smarter about the world of adventuring than the average player.

[Unoriginal]

I've been running some D&D on and off for my wife (Purple Dragon Knight, she wants something really simple), 10 year old (Evoker wizard), and 7 year old (Beastmaster ranger because it has a pet). They're about done doing some arena stuff, and based on what they said they want to play, my Castle Dracula campaign is actually a really great fit.

As written, it's for a party of about 5 starting at level 3 (total character levels = 15) and running to about level 12 (total levels = 60). I think starting a smaller party at level 5 is reasonable, but going to 20 is going to out-level most challenges. taking them up 3 levels to a max 15 seems about right, but I'm concerned that it will still leave them too weak in terms of action economy. Only one tank (AC, not damage resistance), one archer, one arcane caster, no healer, no condition removal at all, etc.
An NPC follow-along will not be a good fit here. I do plan to let them have max HP instead of average, and there's a decent spread of magic items for them to pick up.

Any experience / math suggestions on how to not TPK my entire immediately family or make them too over-leveled?

I would start with them at lvl 6, then adjust the level up rate to the difficulty.

[Silly Name]

Any reasons why "make the encounters easier" isn't on the list of options? Pick weaker variants of monsters, cut away some mooks and you're usually golden, in my experience.

[Slipjig]

Avoiding TPKing is very much under the DM's control. Maybe the cavalry shows up. Maybe a large predator passes by and the current enemies run. Maybe the villain just wants to humiliate the party, and will mock them, take one of their magic items (or a lock of hair) as a souvenir, and then leave them at 0 hp. Having previously lost to him will make it much more satisfying when they kick his butt down the road.

[Unoriginal]

Any reasons why "make the encounters easier" isn't on the list of options? Pick weaker variants of monsters, cut away some mooks and you're usually golden, in my experience.

Less powerful encounters can often be less hype/exciting.

It's true that removing some mooks is usually a good way to make the encounter easier without making it less hype, however.

[Silly Name]

Less powerful encounters can often be less hype/exciting.

It's true that removing some mooks is usually a good way to make the encounter easier without making it less hype, however.

Of course, if you're replacing the big bad orc chieftain with a lowly goblin mook, it gets a bit underwhelming. But there's no reason for not using the base Orc statblock instead of the Orc War Chief statblock for the "boss", give it the Battle Cry action, and treat the base orc warriors as Guards instead of Orcs. Flavor is free, after all.

[KorvinStarmast]

As written, it's for a party of about 5 starting at level 3 (total character levels = 15) and running to about level 12 (total levels = 60). I think starting a smaller party at level 5 is reasonable, but going to 20 is going to out-level most challenges.

Do you think any of them will used a summons spell or something like a beast companion?

Three players changes the action economy as compared to 5; I have noticed a substantive difference from both sides of the screen. The advantage is that each person gets more turns in play. One trick that I have noticed which mitigates this is to avoid swarms. Use monsters in ones, twos and threes.

Taking them up 3 levels to a max 15 seems about right, but I'm concerned that it will still leave them too weak in terms of action economy.

Yes. Summons and debuff control spells go a long way. your spell casters may need some coaching. You may need some magic items for this. Horn of Valhalla is handy for dealing with some swarms, bu only once per seven In Game days. Our Wednesday night party, one that I Dm for and one that I play in, tend to use it as a covering force when we need to withdraw. In the other campaign I play in (Phoenix Phyre's) I most often use it as a burst of action economy on selected opponents, usually spell casters or a swarm.

Only one tank (AC, not damage resistance), one archer, one arcane caster, no healer, no condition removal at all, etc.

What are the odds that your Purple Dragon Knight would be interested in being a Paladin? Most problems solved right there. I'd suggest Ancients.

Any experience / math suggestions on how to not TPK my entire immediately family or make them too over-leveled?

It's a fine line to walk. The "captured when defeated" is the path I'd suggest.

I agree with all of the above.

As do I.

Also, either use "charms" (from the DMG) or Tattoos (Tasha's) as quest rewards.
These can be spells that they can get use from (single use) from any class.
I have applied One Use tattoos (Tasha's) on all of the PCs that I have DMd for at this point.
The players like it, and it adds a way to use 'out of the box' abilities when the occasion demands.

- Assume the characters have an appropriate level of competence and expertise based on the in game world, and if a player doesn't match it don't be afraid to off checks to provide hints or just provide them directly. The average character is almost certainly smarter about the world of adventuring than the average player.

Make sure that the dodge action is explained to your players.

[da newt]

3 PCs is a much less capable party (especially newer folks) than a 5 PC party. I'd say 3 = half of 5 is pretty close for encounter purposes.

IMO the biggest change you can make to mitigate (other than the normal less bad guys / weaker bad guys) is to lean into 'capture is way more interesting than killing' ideal. From a story / narrative standpoint, a capture / rescue / revenge is so much more impactful than 'so who is your back up PC?' As a DM for smaller parties and newer folks I'll start encounters w/ X # of bad guys, and if it's going too easy I can always add a second wave, or if it's just one BBEG - their hp total is sort of fluid ... then aim for the Goldilocks 'not too hot, not too cold, but just right' for the narrative.

For a party of new folks I'd also look at giving them all 1/day free healing word. The purple knight morphing to Pali is also a good idea.

Lastly, teach them that not every encounter has to be kill or be killed - running away or sneaking around or bribing or finding some NPC to help out or whatever is also always on the table.

[Kane0]

You can use normal monsters, but instead of taking their average HP and damage hew closer to the upper or lower end of their range as appropriate.
An ogre with 28 HP and 6 damage per hit is the same statblock as the one with 91 HP and 20 damage per hit, but you best believe it feels very different on the table. Ditto the one with 28 HP and 20 damage per hit vs the one with 91 HP and 6 damage per hit.

[J-H]

Thanks for the good suggestions. I think you're right that 3 may be closer to half of 5.
I will see how the first few areas go before I need to adjust things downwards. I may drop monster HP a bit.

This is in and around Dracula's castle, so there is no cavalry around, although they could always be captured and thrown into the prison area. If they're too low level, they won't be ready for the minotaurs.

The ranger is a beastmaster with a pet, and I may let him find a set of barding off the first area boss (a skeleton knight on a Nightmare) to bump its AC up a bit. It hasn't seemed very tough at 3rd-4th level in terms of staying power.
My wife does not want the complexity of a Paladin. A PDK with 2 choices (action surge, second wind) is about all she wants to deal with.
I don't think the wizard will do much besides blasting and maybe some CC.
A bunch of one-use charms/scrolls will probably be forgotten about (my adult players forget too...went through most of Castle Dracula with a Scroll of Protection from Undead and never used it).

I'll probably bump a few items from +1 to +2, etc., to help them be a bit tougher, and I may loosen attunement requirements to 4 or something, and perhaps add in a stat boosting item or two (Gauntlets of Ogre Power, or an Ioun stone).

Right now i'm thinking level 5 start, and there are 10 levelups after boss fights, which gets them to 15. There are also two intermediate vampire fights, so I might let them level after one of those if they're struggling.