Multiclass build advice (not charop)

[Reprimand]

Hello I'm looking to enlist the playground to help tighten up some loose character ideas to be slightly more functional to not drag down the party i'm joining. Party consists of a gnome bard and a dwarf fighter currently as well as an npc cleric and bard.
Currently the party lacks a few things arcane utility and the dwarf is the only one that can take a hit, he's sort of the lynchpin in the party right now.

Point buy is 25
General allowed sources are core, the complete X series, races of x, unearthed Arcana, mic, sc. feats are generally easier to allow from other books by are case by case.

General things not allowed:
Psionics
Tome of battle
Incarnum
Tome of magic (not so much it being op as just flavor stuff and systems we haven't really fooled with)
Dragon mag stuff is sort of 50/50 but generally the crazier good stuff is not allowed.

I have a few concepts atm:
Serving as the party bloodhound and probably taking a wild cohort for flavor
Feral fist fighter tracker: Dwarf ranger 1 / ex-monk 4 / lion pounce barbarian 1 / fist of the forest 3 / bear warrior 5 / X

Old pikeman willing to exploit dirty tricks to win very sun tzus art of war.
Wiley old longspear cleric: Rog 3 / Cleric of Odin (Trickery and knowledge) X utilizing sacred outlaw.

Fist fighter bastard priest loosely based on Kotomine Kirei: ex(?)-Monk / Cleric (not good aligned to sacred fist is out so alternatives appreciated.)

Placeholder while I look this one up

I have some simplier concepts i'm considering that arent so crazy like a wild elf druid "white witch" healer (downside no darkvision in base form or wildshape), "ultimate generalist" wizard focused around crafting and having the right tools for the job, an egotistical controller sorceress and a swiss army knife swifthunter.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What level are you starting at, and what level do you reasonably expect to reach?

A single-class Druid would add plenty of utility as well as tanky bodies, via the animal companion, wild shape, and SNA. Try to get a Ring of the Beast asap. You'll typically want to summon a unicorn instead of casting a healing spell. Consider making this a Killoren, use aspect of the ancients, and take Magic of the Land at 3rd.

Not exactly optimal, but an elf druid could go Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Hierophant 10, taking Obtain Familiar at 9th. It needs to be an elf to get the weapon proficiencies needed to qualify for SA. Just say one of the character's parents is a druid and the other is a Suloise mage who's already instructed them. Always get feats like iron will from the Otyugh Hole and similar if possible.

[Reprimand]

What level are you starting at, and what level do you reasonably expect to reach?

A single-class Druid would add plenty of utility as well as tanky bodies, via the animal companion, wild shape, and SNA. Try to get a Ring of the Beast asap. You'll typically want to summon a unicorn instead of casting a healing spell. Consider making this a Killoren, use aspect of the ancients, and take Magic of the Land at 3rd.

Not exactly optimal, but an elf druid could go Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Hierophant 10, taking Obtain Familiar at 9th. It needs to be an elf to get the weapon proficiencies needed to qualify for SA. Just say one of the character's parents is a druid and the other is a Suloise mage who's already instructed them. Always get feats like iron will from the Otyugh Hole and similar if possible.

Currently the party is 5th level so I'm likely to start a 4th or 5th level depending on how the DM feels about me starting on par with the other players who have been playing for a few months already. I imagine we'll go to 10th level at least.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wait. So, you want help in making your character better/viable, but you don't want us to help with optimization, which is what you asked for?

...Do you want help, or don't you? You can't have both.

[Reprimand]

Wait. So, you want help in making your character better/viable, but you don't want us to help with optimization, which is what you asked for?

...Do you want help, or don't you? You can't have both.

It means I want help making a concept functional enough to help the party without necessarily being super broken. I figured the playground would know about more options I may have missed or not considered.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It means I want help making a concept functional enough to help the party without necessarily being super broken. I figured the playground would know about more options I may have missed or not considered.

Then maybe rephrase? Because that IS "charop."

[pabelfly]

Okay, so I see a few concepts here. Let me see if I can offer any decent thoughts to help out.

I have a few concepts atm:
Serving as the party bloodhound and probably taking a wild cohort for flavor

So if you want to be the party tracker and have a wild cohort, sounds like you want a Swift Hunter build.

Swift Hunter archers go Scout 3 or 4/Ranger X. Two Weapon Fighter swift hunters go Barbarian 1/Scout 3 or 4/Ranger X.

You need Ranger 1/Scout 3 to be elligible for Skirmish. Scout 4 gives a bonus feat, and bonus feats are always nice, but it puts you a level behind on Ranger bonus feats.

Feral fist fighter tracker: Dwarf ranger 1 / ex-monk 4 / lion pounce barbarian 1 / fist of the forest 3 / bear warrior 5 / X

So you want to be a Chaotic or Neutral Barbarian 1 for Pounce and Rage for Bear Warrior, but that doesn't work with Monks who have to be Lawful, hence the ex-monk stub. Ranger 1 is an odd pick here, you might have picked it for the skill points.

What I'd suggest: Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 5. You get in to Fist earlier, Fighter gives you two bonus feats (or a bonus feat and the Resolute ACF to improve your Will Save), and you still have enough feats and full BAB at level 4 to get into Fist of the Forest at level 5.

Old pikeman willing to exploit dirty tricks to win very sun tzus art of war.

Education + Knowledge Devotion.

Wiley old longspear cleric: Rog 3 / Cleric of Odin (Trickery and knowledge) X utilizing sacred outlaw.

Solid build. Take Travel Devotion as a feat to get free swift-action movement.

Fist fighter bastard priest loosely based on Kotom ine Kirei: ex(?)-Monk / Cleric (not good aligned to sacred fist is out so alternatives appreciated.)

I have no idea what this is but Monk 1/Cleric X is a decent build. Maybe fit in a couple levels of Prestige Paladin with the Serenity feat to lose one casting level and a feat but ridiculously boost your saves. You don't need to multiclass further than that.

Hope this was what you were after. If there's something you'd like fleshed out further, feel free to let us know.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Currently the party is 5th level so I'm likely to start a 4th or 5th level depending on how the DM feels about me starting on par with the other players who have been playing for a few months already. I imagine we'll go to 10th level at least.

In that case, I'd avoid builds like the bloodhound or anything else that's a late-bloomer.

I'd also avoid relying on unarmed damage on general principle. However, if you're insistent on going Monk/Cleric, I don't see anything about Sacred Fist that indicates you need a particular alignment for it. It even has a built-in adaptation suggestion implying it can be used to ignore the typical monk lawful alignment requirement. There's also Master of the West Wind in Dragon 314, but it's decidedly worse all around. You could also just make a Cleric who wears a Monk's Belt instead of multiclassing.

[Maat Mons]

wild elf druid "white witch" healer (downside no darkvision in base form or wildshape)

Druid is always solid, especially if you take Wild Cohort to have a second companion animal. That would provide plenty of targets for the two Bards in your party to buff.

Personally, my preference would be Snow Elf > Arctic Elf = Desert Elf > Painted Elf = Wild Elf.

Elves can gain Darkvision with the Otherworldly feat.

[Reprimand]

Okay, so I see a few concepts here. Let me see if I can offer any decent thoughts to help out.



So if you want to be the party tracker and have a wild cohort, sounds like you want a Swift Hunter build.

Swift Hunter archers go Scout 3 or 4/Ranger X. Two Weapon Fighter swift hunters go Barbarian 1/Scout 3 or 4/Ranger X.

You need Ranger 1/Scout 3 to be elligible for Skirmish. Scout 4 gives a bonus feat, and bonus feats are always nice, but it puts you a level behind on Ranger bonus feats.



So you want to be a Chaotic or Neutral Barbarian 1 for Pounce and Rage for Bear Warrior, but that doesn't work with Monks who have to be Lawful, hence the ex-monk stub. Ranger 1 is an odd pick here, you might have picked it for the skill points.

What I'd suggest: Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 5. You get in to Fist earlier, Fighter gives you two bonus feats (or a bonus feat and the Resolute ACF to improve your Will Save), and you still have enough feats and full BAB at level 4 to get into Fist of the Forest at level 5.



Education + Knowledge Devotion.



Solid build. Take Travel Devotion as a feat to get free swift-action movement.



I have no idea what this is but Monk 1/Cleric X is a decent build. Maybe fit in a couple levels of Prestige Paladin with the Serenity feat to lose one casting level and a feat but ridiculously boost your saves. You don't need to multiclass further than that.

Hope this was what you were after. If there's something you'd like fleshed out further, feel free to let us know.

The CN wild monk took ranger for the base attack (for feats requiring 1 base attack and skill points in survival etc for meeting fof requirements and track I thougt was flavorful given scent.

Scout 3/ A cleric of Fharlagen build could be interesting with zen archery and travel devotion likewise

I considered swifthunter with 3 levels in rogue and 2 levels in fighter for feats and bonus attack (so a little all over the place) as well but I've heard sneak attack is a bit hard to trigger in conjuntion with skirmish.

@PMMaat Mons
What source is the otherworldly feat from?
Only reason I go for wild elf is the lack of con penalty and druids dont depend on int outside of skill points and theming because it makes sense that the druid thst is constantly outside crawling through mud would be able to offset that elven fragility. Also because of the setting being in a temperate forest in a valley I wasn't sure the terrain for desert or snow would fly with the DM.

@biffomiacus_furiou
I'll be damned I could have sworn there was LG alignment req good to know I'll only drop 2 caster levels and I can just keep going cleric from there.

@everyone
Any last minute general feat advice? Fun little gems for lowish levels or interesting build paths to go down? I made pretty good use of deadly defense combat expertise and broadblade shortsword(? The one that further boosts combat expertise / fighting defensively) on a rogue once so weirdly enough a lot of non-standard options can work out quite well. Or some of your favorite / interesting builds within the parameters of the thread

[pabelfly]

The CN wild monk took ranger for the base attack (for feats requiring 1 base attack and skill points in survival etc for meeting fof requirements and track I thougt was flavorful given scent.

Scout 3/ A cleric of Fharlagen build could be interesting with zen archery and travel devotion likewise

I considered swifthunter with 3 levels in rogue and 2 levels in fighter for feats and bonus attack (so a little all over the place) as well but I've heard sneak attack is a bit hard to trigger in conjuntion with skirmish.

For a Swift Hunter build, doing more than, say, a level of Barbarian or a level of Cleric is not advisable. You want to delay your Skirmish progression and your Ranger features as little as possible. The only reason you take Barbarian or Cleric is to get Pounce or Travel Devotion + Turn Undead to be able to move while getting off full attacks. Your suggestion would take you five levels behind (and 1d6 on Skirmish) for relatively minor benefits.

Lastly, if you need a bonus feat, take Scout 4, which slightly delays Ranger progression. If you don't, only go Scout 3.