... talk about 3 Body Problem

[KorvinStarmast]

Was not able to find a thread about this Netflix show:
3 Body Problem.
I saw episode 1 and got hooked bad.

We just finished a binge watch of all 8 episodes of season 1. I particularly like:

Spoiler: a few things, may add to it

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a. How they peel back the layers of the onion a little bit at a time. Nicely done on the pacing.
b. Two of my favorite GoT actors are in the show.
c. Layers of complexity in terms of how you need to think as you watch the show.
d. How easily fooled and manipulated zealots can be.
e. The Dark Forest hypothesis: well illustrated.
f. The use of video games to recruit people to a cause.
g. The assassin. Yes, you hate the character, but the assassin is well done.
h. The VR helmets.
i. Out of the box thinking by Mr Wade.
j. The detective.
k. How most people can't think or forecast on a 400-year timeline.
l. The rum, "for the bugs."
m. Ye Wenjie. Good writing and good acting by both the young and old versions.
n. The curve balls thrown with some frequency during the narrative.
o. The ship full of zealots, and in particular, the visual depiction of its demise. Brutal, but well done

Things I am not a fan of:

Spoiler: Stuff that didn't quite feel right

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a. How young Dr Salazar is. This doesn't fit the narrative of a post PhD scientist / engineer in a ground-breaking industrial setting trying to produce highly complex tech. She came off as a whining liberal arts major, not a scientist. I'll call that bad writing, and bad costume design. The actress has a solid screen presence.

b. How pouty Dr Salazar is about ... well...everything. (Though she finally behaves almost like a normal person in episode 8 when working on a well).

c. The parachute / sail lanyard failure. They either needed to explain that as sabotage, or, explain how that explosion "boost" caused that failure. "The hatch just blew" is what appears to have been the explanation. Not satisfying.

d. The drama between Jin and Will, the man who loves her but won't tell her.
That bit was way overdone.
I think this thread might have come off better had we not been binge watching. (If we had seen this one episode at a time with a few days between).

e. The UN thing in the later episodes: I know what they were reaching for, but it felt off.
I guess some day I'll grasp why they used the term Wallfacer.
EDIT:

“We know that the genesis of the Wallfacer Project comes from Wade [Liam Cunningham], because we saw him make the phone call in Episode 7,” Benioff explained to Netflix. “The reason the term was chosen references staring at the wall, trying to achieve a state of enlightenment and not interacting with the outside world. And it’s a pretty damn lonely existence.”

“A Wallfacer’s work is carried out in secret, in the solitude of the mind.”

The books had 4, not 3.
The description continues, “This is the motivation for the Wallfacer Project, a daring plan that grants four men enormous resources to design secret strategies hidden through deceit and misdirection from Earth and Trisolaris alike. Three of the Wallfacers are influential statesmen and scientists but the fourth is a total unknown. Luo Ji, an unambitious Chinese astronomer and sociologist, is baffled by his new status. All he knows is that he’s the one Wallfacer that Trisolaris wants dead.”
f. The raid on the cult. Felt off.

g. Darnit, they killed Sam!

[ben-zayb]

I watched the trailer where it shows the Chaotic Era, which piqued my interest.

Spoiler

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I thought the show would be more focused on the hook that got me interested. I was a bit disappointed with how the game turned out to just be a recruitment tool, but overall I still enjoyed the show enough to want a season 2. I think my biggest gripe is that I don't feel a sense of danger or urgency with the given stakes.

I agree that the Ye Wenjie actors did great and were easily some of the best parts of the series.

Aren't wallfacers named so because they're forbidden to interact with anyone else (at least about their plan against the san-ti)? Kinda like the traditional punishment of having a kid stand in a corner and face the wall so they can reflect on their wrong doings and to prevent communication/distraction from others.

Is Wade intentionally written to be unlikeable? I'm aware he's the type to dol whatever it takes to get things moving, but even so I can't stand him.

As for Wade and the rest operating under the assumption that the San-ti don't lie, is that a safe assumption to make? The San-ti just learned about lying and they could then start doing with humans.

[KorvinStarmast]

I watched the trailer where it shows the Chaotic Era, which piqued my interest.

You were not invited! (I love how that line is delivered)... with a sword to the face.

I think my biggest gripe is that I don't feel a sense of danger or urgency with the given stakes.

That's a plot point, though, and it's part of why I find the character of Dr Salazar to be both difficult to watch and yet very representative of people who can't think past the end of their own noses. (My first reaction to the actress was "Hmm, young version of Jennifer Garner" but as I watced more eps that similarity faded).

I agree that the Ye Wenjie actors did great and were easily some of the best parts of the series.

Yes. Well written and well done.

Aren't wallfacers named so because they're forbidden to interact with anyone else (at least about their plan against the san-ti)?

No and yes. I finally found an explanation. (I edited into my spoiler).

Is Wade intentionally written to be unlikeable? I'm aware he's the type to dol whatever it takes to get things moving, but even so I can't stand him.

That is his role: to get people to do things so that the project keeps moving forward. He doesn't need to be likeable, he just needs to be effective and see beyond the end of his own nose, unlike most of the people in the story.

As for Wade and the rest operating under the assumption that the San-ti don't lie, is that a safe assumption to make? The San-ti just learned about lying and they could then start doing with humans.

Based on the San Ti voice talking to Evans, the imperative to work together (if one of us lives we all live) may require that only true or verifiable statements are acceptable. Not sure, that is part of what gets addressed later, I think.

I also found it interesting (although it was never explained) that Evans and The Voice only interacted behind a locked door, and the rest was "Trust me on this!" as an MO for the crew and passengers on the Judgement Day ship.

[Xapi]

Things I am not a fan of:

Spoiler: Stuff that didn't quite feel right

Show

a. How young Dr Salazar is. This doesn't fit the narrative of a post PhD scientist / engineer in a ground-breaking industrial setting trying to produce highly complex tech. She came off as a whining liberal arts major, not a scientist. I'll call that bad writing, and bad costume design. The actress has a solid screen presence.

b. How pouty Dr Salazar is about ... well...everything. (Though she finally behaves almost like a normal person in episode 8 when working on a well).

c. The parachute / sail lanyard failure. They either needed to explain that as sabotage, or, explain how that explosion "boost" caused that failure. "The hatch just blew" is what appears to have been the explanation. Not satisfying.

d. The drama between Jin and Will, the man who loves her but won't tell her.
That bit was way overdone.
I think this thread might have come off better had we not been binge watching. (If we had seen this one episode at a time with a few days between).

e. The UN thing in the later episodes: I know what they were reaching for, but it felt off.
I guess some day I'll grasp why they used the term Wallfacer.
EDIT:
The books had 4, not 3.
The description continues, “This is the motivation for the Wallfacer Project, a daring plan that grants four men enormous resources to design secret strategies hidden through deceit and misdirection from Earth and Trisolaris alike. Three of the Wallfacers are influential statesmen and scientists but the fourth is a total unknown. Luo Ji, an unambitious Chinese astronomer and sociologist, is baffled by his new status. All he knows is that he’s the one Wallfacer that Trisolaris wants dead.”
f. The raid on the cult. Felt off.

g. Darnit, they killed Sam!

a) It was my inference that they were all the same age, around their mid thirties, and that each had been stellar in acheivements in their respective fields

Spoiler

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except Saul due to his lack of work ethic, and Will due to his bohemian outlook on life

Dr. Salazar seemed to be

Spoiler

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basically an engineering genius who was at the same time able to raise whopping amounts of money for a private R&D startup.

c) This is explained ex ante by Wade.

Spoiler

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They are pushing the envelope really really far, like landing on the moon in the '60s far. Those projects had their number of failures. It is a relatively recent development that engineering projects only ship with 99% success rates. I believe SpaceX is now prone to failures as well due to the same thing.

e) This will only make sense in the next season, as it will be the centerpiece of the upcoming drama (if it is renewed)

f) Agree. It was much better in the books, specially because (spoiler for books and S1)

Spoiler

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Ye Wenjie's turn had happened earlier, and she exposes an internal struggle between Evans and herself, noting that Evan's path would lead to the complete obliteration of humanity in the hands of a civilization that is not in any way better morally than us

Having read the books, I feel like I understand most choices that were made to accomodate the story to a universal audience.

The one I didn't like was

Spoiler

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the power level of the sophons. In the books, they are basically the perfect spy, wich is a lot, but extremely limited in how they could interact with reality on a macro level. It seemed incongruent how the sophons were all powerful but then need human servants to do some pretty tame stuff.

[Xapi]

Spoiler

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Is Wade intentionally written to be unlikeable? I'm aware he's the type to dol whatever it takes to get things moving, but even so I can't stand him.

As for Wade and the rest operating under the assumption that the San-ti don't lie, is that a safe assumption to make? The San-ti just learned about lying and they could then start doing with humans.

Spoiler

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Yes, Wade is intentionally unlikeable. His most repeated line in the books is something to the effect of "Would you kill your mother for this?" expressed to Book Jin. Implying that she's not the person to work for him if she wouldn't. He's the most ruthless bastard humanity has, and that makes him valuable, and a target to the San Ti, as is shown in the last episode.

Re: Lying: Wade and others simply see our innate capacity for lying and obfuscation as one of the very few comparative advantages we have over the San Ti. The San Ti could learn to lie, (although physiologically they can't practice on each other) but they would be worse than us at it, and worse at reading liars. In this assymetrical war, humanity needs all the tools they can use.

[KorvinStarmast]

Good points all in both posts.
Yes, the sophons were a bit OP.

I get that those five went to Oxford together, and that
Saul was working for someone else who needed to use his brain,
Auggie was a go-getter
Problem is that the role of someone in her mid 30's came off - thanks to presence and more importantly the writing - as an overwrought liberal arts major in her mid 20's.

Jack got into the snack business and got filthy rich,
Will was smart but lacked the drive to go further.
Jin came off as a high achiever in her 30's who didn't overly indulge on recreational drugs or alcohol AND her romantic involvement with a Commander in the RN fits her age category (Raj would be in his mid-to late-30's).

[Zombimode]

Three Body Problems seems to me a very odd choice to bring to the screen. As a novel very much in the tradition of Asimov it cares more about ideas and concept then about memorable characters or show value. Large parts of the books consists of people having thoughts which I can't imagine being terribly interesting to watch. And on the flip side there are many scenes that take up a paragraph or two in the books but that would be very expensive to produce in a visual medium (like the human computer).

But who knows, maybe the producers where smart and creative and managed to create something cool for the screen from the source material

[Wookieetank]

And on the flip side there are many scenes that take up a paragraph or two in the books but that would be very expensive to produce in a visual medium (like the human computer).

But who knows, maybe the producers where smart and creative and managed to create something cool for the screen from the source material

Visually the show is top notch. Even the clear cutting the forest scenes are visually impressive. And they do have the human computer in it, and its quite the spectacle. Really the only complaints I have about the show are minor, and most things that they've changed up work well despite my initial misgivings (added/changed characters, moving the main location to London, etc).

[Vogie]

I am a huge fan of the Netflix adaptation. I'll pick up the books once I finish This is How You Lose the Time War and Roadside Picnic.

Three Body Problems seems to me a very odd choice to bring to the screen. As a novel very much in the tradition of Asimov it cares more about ideas and concept then about memorable characters or show value. Large parts of the books consists of people having thoughts which I can't imagine being terribly interesting to watch. And on the flip side there are many scenes that take up a paragraph or two in the books but that would be very expensive to produce in a visual medium (like the human computer).

I was also a big fan of the Foundation series on Apple TV, so it's been a good couple years for on-screen depiction of quantum-entangled technology. I barely remember reading Foundation as a child, but recently heard a description of the novel as "White Guys with Mutton Chops Voicing Opinions", which made me chuckle. The translation of both from page to screen requires a bit of artistic license without changing the core concepts and ideas.

My main question that was left unanswered is how precisely the San-Ti & sympathizers interact with the world at large.

1. When Tatiana is being unobserved by electronic devices - is that the sophons themselves hacking the cameras to 'remove her in post', people with access to San-Ti technology, or the Sophons interposing the act of recording itself? In Daniel Suarez's Daemon, the titular program hacks everything and can manipulate it at will, so when it gives an agent an "invisibility ring" (so they don't show up on camera or other surveillance), it's essentially doing live post-production removal.
2. When they do the Eye in the Sky thing, are they doing an infinite-stretch of the sophon into a planet-sized blanket, or are the 2 sophons just bouncing around the eyes of the human population (not unlike the countdown displays)?
3. There seems to be another branch of people that are working for the San-Ti - specifically, those who are creating the headsets and dropping them places. This made sense in a story like The Peripheral, where any given town has the ability to print technology and medications if given the information, but 3BP's world seems to be set in a "Right Now Plus" setting. They show that the game itself does exist in a form we recognize (the petabytes of data that they find from the harddrives of the Judgement Day), so it's feasible there's a mad engineer and associated courier out there that's just fulfilling orders using San-Ti designs & tools.

Tangentially related - I also just saw that there's a Chinese adaptation called "Three Body" on Amazon Prime that was released last year - has anyone checked that one out?

[KorvinStarmast]

Tangentially related - I also just saw that there's a Chinese adaptation called "Three Body" on Amazon Prime that was released last year - has anyone checked that one out?

If it has subtitles, I'd like to see that. I do not speak Mandarin.