OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread

[Unoriginal]

That reminds me actually, why was Girard's corpse there? They had like a dozen sorcerers, they probably could have given him a better tomb than a glorified desk drawer.

I mean, if fits the aesthetic of the building (which Girard likely favored), is somewhere people will likely have to go through several times a day, and got a statue of the man bigger than what many real-life monarchs can boast about.

[Kardwill]

Putting the tomb of the glorious ancestor/cult founder, complete with bigger-than-life statue and murals, right in front of the cafeteria was probably a way to remind everyone of him and the mission he imparted, I guess? IRL, some kings and queens got their tomb right in the middle of the church's public ground, after all.

Girard was pretty hostile to gods and religion, so "sacred grounds" and mausoleums wouldn't have meant much for him and his family. Putting the memorial where everybody could see and visit it probably felt right for his clan.


As an example, here is king Richard Lionheart's tomb, right next to his mother's :

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[danielxcutter]

And I suppose that when the clan was still alive intruders wouldn't exactly have much of a chance to find the corpse and piss on it or whatever.

[Riftwolf]

Seeing as Bloodfeasts weight was enough to down Calder from flying, as it safe to assume the next strip will have an ignominious end to the big-talking dragon, crushed to death under Allosaur buttmeat?

[Kardwill]

Seeing as Bloodfeasts weight was enough to down Calder from flying, as it safe to assume the next strip will have an ignominious end to the big-talking dragon, crushed to death under Allosaur buttmeat?

They look like they are about the same weight, and the dino will probably fall off his mouth, so I'd say it's unlikely?
But Calder is having a really bad, undignified day. ^^

[gbaji]

Nitpick: I think Tarquin's plan was more "If I can control the area where the Gate is located, I decide who gets access to it and can prevent anyone from using it against my interests. I will study it, destroy it if it proves a threat, or sell it to the highest bidder depending on what the casters I learn. Maybe I can get that sub-boss Zyklon that my son is so worried about to become my minion ; if I play my cards right I could convince Elan that he's secretly been working for me since the very beginning!"
Also, it was a ploy to save Nale from Malack and keep both working under him. Not that it worked out for either of them at the end.

I'll note the absence of any plan of Tarquin's involving "hold the gods hostage to the snarl".

So you are concurring with my position that the nobles of Azure City, if they knew of the gates existence, may have expended resources, engaged in violence, or used other means to control the gate, despite not having any intention to use it to hold the gods hostage? My position doesn't rest at all on what someone might want control of the gate for exactly, only that it's still something worth fighting for, despite those fighting over it having no intentions to use it in a way which might end the world.

I was responding to several posts in this thread which argued that since the Azure City nobles wouldn't want to risk ending the world by threatening the gods with the snarl, they therefore would have no interest in controlling or fighting over the gate. Clearly, that assumption is false.

Putting the tomb of the glorious ancestor/cult founder, complete with bigger-than-life statue and murals, right in front of the cafeteria was probably a way to remind everyone of him and the mission he imparted, I guess? IRL, some kings and queens got their tomb right in the middle of the church's public ground, after all.

Girard was pretty hostile to gods and religion, so "sacred grounds" and mausoleums wouldn't have meant much for him and his family. Putting the memorial where everybody could see and visit it probably felt right for his clan.

The entire building is a pyramid (ok, ziggurat, whatever). So yeah. It seems totally appropriate to have his tomb be right there where everyone entering the building, or traveling from what looks like the living quarters for his family to the working/maze portion of the structure, had to walk right past.

[Vikenlugaid]

Girard died of old age long before they showed up; that wouldn't have been possible.

Are we sure about that? We only know he was old when he died, but Dorukan too and he didn't die of old age.

[Coppercloud]

I'll note the absence of any plan of Tarquin's involving "hold the gods hostage to the snarl".

So you are concurring with my position that the nobles of Azure City, if they knew of the gates existence, may have expended resources, engaged in violence, or used other means to control the gate, despite not having any intention to use it to hold the gods hostage? My position doesn't rest at all on what someone might want control of the gate for exactly, only that it's still something worth fighting for, despite those fighting over it having no intentions to use it in a way which might end the world.

I was responding to several posts in this thread which argued that since the Azure City nobles wouldn't want to risk ending the world by threatening the gods with the snarl, they therefore would have no interest in controlling or fighting over the gate. Clearly, that assumption is false.

Oh, absolutely, hence why I said it was a nitpick
It's just that the way you phrased it ("Tarquin thought he could control the gate") could imply that he was delusional about an ability to weaponize the Gate or Snarl.
Also I might have wanted to requote Tarquin's assessment of "Zyklon" as a sub-boss that will hang around until the heroes show up to stop him because I think it's funny.

[Ruck]

Are we sure about that? We only know he was old when he died, but Dorukan too and he didn't die of old age.

Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble.

What do you think, if not old age, was the cause of Girard's death?

[Peelee]

Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble.

What do you think, if not old age, was the cause of Girard's death?

We saw his skeleton and thus can rule out death by snu-snu.

[Ruck]

We saw his skeleton and thus can rule out death by snu-snu.

On the other hand, snu-snu could explain the crumbly assbone.

[danielxcutter]

I must have missed those rules in the SRD.

[arimareiji]

Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble.

What do you think, if not old age, was the cause of Girard's death?

Someone found out Girard had been diddling their SO and poisoned his coffee?

That's about all I got for conjecture, inside a pyramid occupied by a cult of personality who would've instantly recognized any intruders. Cabin fever makes people do strange things.

[Provengreil]

On the other hand, snu-snu could explain the crumbly assbone.

He would have had quite the charisma score....


But yeah, I gotta go with old age. The comic may not have specified it but the scribblers were quite old even back at the start of the comic.

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, the primary reason Serini hasn't died of old age by now is because halflings have a longer lifespan than humans on average.

[Unoriginal]

He would have had quite the charisma score....

And a family history of dragon-human relationships.

[Vikenlugaid]

Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble.

What do you think, if not old age, was the cause of Girard's death?

Again, are we sure Dorukan was the youngest? He was just "the new guy".
And Girard had the blood of his blackdragon grandfather, it's not unlikely that he would have aged slower.

The point is we don't know.

[danielxcutter]

Fairly sure that draconic heritage feats and the like don't extend lifespan, though.

[KorvinStarmast]

And a family history of dragon-human relationships.

Why did the opening of Cat Scratch Fever just pop into my brain?

[Unoriginal]

I wanted to apologize, I was wrong earlier in the thread, Crayon!Dorukan does say that "only epic magic"can protect the Gates.

Guess he (or at least his perspective) did grow after the Scribble breakup, since that describes neither of the two dungeons we know he worked on.

[Kardwill]

I wanted to apologize, I was wrong earlier in the thread, Crayon!Dorukan does say that "only epic magic"can protect the Gates.

Guess he (or at least his perspective) did grow after the Scribble breakup, since that describes neither of the two dungeons we know he worked on.

He and Soon were in the middle of a heated argument. People tend to talk in hyperbole and are not at their best when tempers flare. Even Epic-level people.

But yeah, I gotta go with old age. The comic may not have specified it but the scribblers were quite old even back at the start of the comic.

Roy and Haley discussed that very subject in #846, including the fact that the skeleton looked like the corpse of a very old man, and that raising him was less likely to succeed than with the other family members.

[Ruck]

Again, are we sure Dorukan was the youngest? He was just "the new guy".
And Girard had the blood of his blackdragon grandfather, it's not unlikely that he would have aged slower.

The point is we don't know.

And if you don't even have an alternate explanation, I'm going to go with what's most likely from everything we've seen from the evidence.

Dorukan also appears younger than Soon or Girard in Serini's diary-- or, at least, Soon's hair is starting to go gray and Dorukan's isn't-- and Serini also labels his picture "new kid." As far as human lifespans go, Dorukan was still alive after Soon and Girard both died of old age (apparently, by all evidence, although I suppose it's possible Soon had his throat slashed and Girard was pancaked by a drunk dump truck driver). So, yes, I think the evidence all strongly suggests that Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble and that Soon and Girard both died of old age.

[Shining Wrath]

Is it just me, or does anyone else kinda feel sorry for Calder? I mean, I'm not rooting for him, but I'm not rooting against him, either...

Since he's set up a situation where either he dies or the Order does, I hope he dies swiftly and with as little pain as a D&D battle allows.

[alceryes]

Since he's set up a situation where either he dies or the Order does, I hope he dies swiftly and with as little pain as a D&D battle allows.

Maybe not. I'm not rooting for Calder either, but the absolute absurdity of the situation with Bloodfeast has me wanting him to at least live long enough to complain to someone (Xykon?) about a lizard that kept turning into a dinosaur and then back into a lizard . Doesn't really seem like Calder's style though.

Maybe Bloodfeast distracts Calder enough for the order and crew to escape through a not-dinosaur-sized exit. We also should have the Paladins healing Sunny and, with Sunny's help, joining the fight soon...

[Phantom Thief]

Bloodfeast is the absolute MVP of this fight.

Usually I would expect Belkar saying the thing about swallowing him whole as an intentional misdirect, as it'd be odd for him to not expect exactly what happened with Calder trying to chew up the lizard. But the more panicked eye expressions make me think maybe it was just an uncontrolled response.

[Vikenlugaid]

And if you don't even have an alternate explanation, I'm going to go with what's most likely from everything we've seen from the evidence.

Dorukan also appears younger than Soon or Girard in Serini's diary-- or, at least, Soon's hair is starting to go gray and Dorukan's isn't-- and Serini also labels his picture "new kid." As far as human lifespans go, Dorukan was still alive after Soon and Girard both died of old age (apparently, by all evidence, although I suppose it's possible Soon had his throat slashed and Girard was pancaked by a drunk dump truck driver). So, yes, I think the evidence all strongly suggests that Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble and that Soon and Girard both died of old age.

Now that you mention Soon, something tells me that to be a ghost martyr you need to die like a martyr, that doesn't strike me as dying of old age.
Maybe he even needed to go seppuku to activate that ritual.

And this is a big campaign world, who tells you that no other group of string adventurers tried to explore Girard's pyramid and old Girard died in the battle.

[KorvinStarmast]

And if you don't even have an alternate explanation, I'm going to go with what's most likely from everything we've seen from the evidence.

Dorukan also appears younger than Soon or Girard in Serini's diary-- or, at least, Soon's hair is starting to go gray and Dorukan's isn't-- and Serini also labels his picture "new kid." As far as human lifespans go, Dorukan was still alive after Soon and Girard both died of old age (apparently, by all evidence, although I suppose it's possible Soon had his throat slashed and Girard was pancaked by a drunk dump truck driver). So, yes, I think the evidence all strongly suggests that Dorukan was the youngest of the Scribble and that Soon and Girard both died of old age.

Well gee, if we get rid of all of the overthinking, where's the fun?

(I concur).

[Ruck]

Now that you mention Soon, something tells me that to be a ghost martyr you need to die like a martyr, that doesn't strike me as dying of old age.
Maybe he even needed to go seppuku to activate that ritual.

Well, we have no evidence for that, but we do have evidence that when Soon was reaching an age where he expected to die soon, he handed over responsibility for the Sapphire Guard to the Lord of the City.

But, yeah, maybe he committed seppuku. They're both equally plausible.

And this is a big campaign world, who tells you that no other group of string adventurers tried to explore Girard's pyramid and old Girard died in the battle.

Sure. And maybe he was, in fact, pancaked by a dump truck driver. They're both equally plausible to the possibility that he died of old age.

[arimareiji]

Now that you mention Soon, something tells me that to be a ghost martyr you need to die like a martyr, that doesn't strike me as dying of old age.
Maybe he even needed to go seppuku to activate that ritual.

Somehow I missed the part where Soon worshiped Thor. (0_o)

[danielxcutter]

I expect that Soon, being an epic paladin who literally saved the world and devoted his entire life before and after that to fighting Evil, would probably wouldn't need to go down fighting like the others to qualify. The alignment's called Lawful Good, people, not Inflexible Stupid.