Fallout on Prime post-release thread

[oudeis]

Looks like it might not suck. (spoiler-free)

The series comes on line 6pm PST for me and I'm planning on watching the first 2-3 episodes to get a feel for whether I like it. Based on the review above, it sound like Prime managed to stay out of the way and actually let the creatives make a good adaptation.


Note: The author of the piece, in addition to being an avid gamer, is a former professor at Dartmouth and the US Naval War College and an expert on the policy and politics of nuclear weapons and deterrence.

[t209]

Not sure how standalone it would be.
Like a bit iffy trying to connect it with videogame series.

[oudeis]

Episode 1 review:

Spoiler

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STOP READING THIS THREAD AND GO WATCH THE GODDAMNED SHOW.

IMMEDIATELY

(I had more to say about this, but the site decided to glitch out on me before I could submit my comment and I'm too irked to retype everything).

Seriously, just watch the show. Everything about it so far is amazing- acting, dialogue, story, effects, etc. The production values are stellar. This is the kind of genre show we all want so desperately to see but so rarely get. Watch it and rave about it on social media so Amazon gets the message and greenlights more series of this caliber.

[Errorname]

So initial impressions are that it's much better than anyone expected but from reactions to later episodes:

Spoiler

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It seems to have done the NCR exactly as badly as people feared it might.

[t209]

So initial impressions are that it's much better than anyone expected but from reactions to later episodes:

Spoiler

Show

It seems to have done the NCR exactly as badly as people feared it might.

Well, further proving why people dislike Bethesda, especially Todd’s approach on Obsidian and Black Isle lores.

[Trixie_One]

I watched the first episode, and decided that was enough for me.

Visually great, some decent performances, and the pre-war stuff is very well done, but so much of it after that I was going 'hang on?' so often that it kept taking me out of the show.

I suspect it would have helped if I hadn't have watched that ep of X-Men '97 which is easily the best thing I've seen all year, and so likely anything would pale in comparison to that.

[Tyndmyr]

Tried to post once, think the post got eaten by the forum, so here goes again.

Watched the first episode. It is meh. Not sure I will be watching further. Perhaps if I get bored and there's nothing else around.

Good:
Music is old timey, and there's at least one classic that any fallout fan'll appreciate in the first episode.
Many of references to fallout things. Some are kinda memberberryish, but there are also many shots that would make a perfectly fine painting of a fallout world.

Bad:
Continuity of shots is not great. Positioning isn't always consistent between cuts, which can be distracting. In at least one case, an item that was at least partially destroyed significantly earlier in the episode is awkwardly whole again later. This mostly just appears to be sloppy.

Terrible:
The characters.
The plot.
There's no good way to discuss these without spoilers, so off to a spoiler, shall we?

Spoiler

Show

The characters basically use a template based on the Star Wars sequel. There are three characters who have stories viewed from their perspective, and that will theoretically overlap later in the show, though they do not in the pilot. First, we have the blank slate female character who is generically good at everything, has no hobbies or notable defining traits, and is loved by all. She will receive the most screen time, and will be hereafter referred to as Lady Boring. Second we have the soldier archetype who is treated as kind of dumb, but means well, and is really too kind hearted to be a soldier. This character is also cast as Black, because I guess awful stereotyping isn't dead yet, and they wanted a Finn clone real bad. Lastly, we have the action heroesque white guy who shoots his way into and out of everything while wisecracking.

I kind of hate this template. It's really, really light on any actual personality and background. Characters mostly do not have much in the way of families, and when they do, it's solely for the purpose of fridging them. They don't have hobbies, nor are they terribly unique. They're just...their role, and that's pretty much it. Soldier guy doesn't even get much in the way of a backstory. He was a kid once, and thought soldiers looked cool, and also some unexplained bad thing happened to him. That's it.

Anyways, on to discussing the plot. Lady Boring is, despite being universally loved by everyone, especially her daddy, who is the vault overseer, unable to find a mate. She proposes that she be selected for the triannual exchange with the neighboring vault to be given a random hubbie. Because everyone loves her, everyone enthusiastically agrees immediately. Daddyseer tells her this is great, they do it all the time, and he himself came from this vault.

The connected vaults thing is mildly unusual, but since each vault historically has had one notable oddity to it, I cannot fault them for this. Two connected vaults swapping people on some wild system can absolutely be the designated experiment for them.

Everyone from vault is welcomed, old times are discussed, trade deals are made, a wedding party is had. All is well...except these are not actually their fellow vault dwellers, but raiders acting as them for...reasons. How did they get in? Why does daddyseer not recognize that this is a wholly different group of people than the family he grew up with? Don't know. Instead, watch as invaders all telepathically decide to go murderhobo at the same time. Fortunately, the six invaders are killed off by Lady Boring, but oh no, the six are now thirty because reasons.

So, the leader of the other vault//the raider chief is basically the Joker, and she monologues about how choices are important and define everything. So, daddyseer has to make a choice. He must choose to save Lady Boring, or the rest of the vault, which is like five people. He chooses her, of course. Joker Raider responds to this by letting the rest of the people go because....I guess choices do not matter after all or something. Instead she laughs manically in front of random explosions before kidnapping Daddyseer so the rest of the plot can happen. The rest of the vault is left alone by the raiders and everything basically goes back to normal.

We switch to the B plot, in which soldier boy is established as a soldier. Thanks to the obvious need to spend half of this time watching power armor shots in slow motion, and the rest of the time observing latrine duty, very little progress is made here. He is still a soldier.

In the C plot, cool guy is established as having been a nice, kind hearted guy who cares about others, and also as a person who kills for the fun of it, and who'll cheerfully murder people who helped him basically for the lulz. Still probably the most interesting character to watch.

Basically all of the charming goofiness of vault-tec instructional videos or salespeople is not to be found. This is sort of disappointing. Fallout is a retro futuristic pulpy story, not a sad period piece.

[Lemmy]

I couldn't even get through the first episode...

The music and visuals are pretty good... And that's about it for positives.
The writing and characterization are as horrible as expected.

Soldier black guy and generic girlboss are so dull I honestly can't even remember their names.

Good visuals, crappy writing... Who could've foreseen this???

Everyone. That's who.

[t209]

Tried to post once, think the post got eaten by the forum, so here goes again.

Watched the first episode. It is meh. Not sure I will be watching further. Perhaps if I get bored and there's nothing else around.

Good:
Music is old timey, and there's at least one classic that any fallout fan'll appreciate in the first episode.
Many of references to fallout things. Some are kinda memberberryish, but there are also many shots that would make a perfectly fine painting of a fallout world.

Bad:
Continuity of shots is not great. Positioning isn't always consistent between cuts, which can be distracting. In at least one case, an item that was at least partially destroyed significantly earlier in the episode is awkwardly whole again later. This mostly just appears to be sloppy.

Terrible:
The characters.
The plot.
There's no good way to discuss these without spoilers, so off to a spoiler, shall we?

Spoiler

Show

The characters basically use a template based on the Star Wars sequel. There are three characters who have stories viewed from their perspective, and that will theoretically overlap later in the show, though they do not in the pilot. First, we have the blank slate female character who is generically good at everything, has no hobbies or notable defining traits, and is loved by all. She will receive the most screen time, and will be hereafter referred to as Lady Boring. Second we have the soldier archetype who is treated as kind of dumb, but means well, and is really too kind hearted to be a soldier. This character is also cast as Black, because I guess awful stereotyping isn't dead yet, and they wanted a Finn clone real bad. Lastly, we have the action heroesque white guy who shoots his way into and out of everything while wisecracking.

I kind of hate this template. It's really, really light on any actual personality and background. Characters mostly do not have much in the way of families, and when they do, it's solely for the purpose of fridging them. They don't have hobbies, nor are they terribly unique. They're just...their role, and that's pretty much it. Soldier guy doesn't even get much in the way of a backstory. He was a kid once, and thought soldiers looked cool, and also some unexplained bad thing happened to him. That's it.

Anyways, on to discussing the plot. Lady Boring is, despite being universally loved by everyone, especially her daddy, who is the vault overseer, unable to find a mate. She proposes that she be selected for the triannual exchange with the neighboring vault to be given a random hubbie. Because everyone loves her, everyone enthusiastically agrees immediately. Daddyseer tells her this is great, they do it all the time, and he himself came from this vault.

The connected vaults thing is mildly unusual, but since each vault historically has had one notable oddity to it, I cannot fault them for this. Two connected vaults swapping people on some wild system can absolutely be the designated experiment for them.

Everyone from vault is welcomed, old times are discussed, trade deals are made, a wedding party is had. All is well...except these are not actually their fellow vault dwellers, but raiders acting as them for...reasons. How did they get in? Why does daddyseer not recognize that this is a wholly different group of people than the family he grew up with? Don't know. Instead, watch as invaders all telepathically decide to go murderhobo at the same time. Fortunately, the six invaders are killed off by Lady Boring, but oh no, the six are now thirty because reasons.

So, the leader of the other vault//the raider chief is basically the Joker, and she monologues about how choices are important and define everything. So, daddyseer has to make a choice. He must choose to save Lady Boring, or the rest of the vault, which is like five people. He chooses her, of course. Joker Raider responds to this by letting the rest of the people go because....I guess choices do not matter after all or something. Instead she laughs manically in front of random explosions before kidnapping Daddyseer so the rest of the plot can happen. The rest of the vault is left alone by the raiders and everything basically goes back to normal.

We switch to the B plot, in which soldier boy is established as a soldier. Thanks to the obvious need to spend half of this time watching power armor shots in slow motion, and the rest of the time observing latrine duty, very little progress is made here. He is still a soldier.

In the C plot, cool guy is established as having been a nice, kind hearted guy who cares about others, and also as a person who kills for the fun of it, and who'll cheerfully murder people who helped him basically for the lulz. Still probably the most interesting character to watch.

Basically all of the charming goofiness of vault-tec instructional videos or salespeople is not to be found. This is sort of disappointing. Fallout is a retro futuristic pulpy story, not a sad period piece.

Like I said, it wouldn’t get “Dr Strangelove meets A Boy And His Dog” dark humor (maybe Helldiver juxtaposition) right.
I mean entire Fallout intro begins with soldiers shooting a prisoner and waving to audience on TV after “Our boys keeping peace” as an example of its tone.

Good visuals, crappy writing... Who could've foreseen this???

Everyone. That's who.

Well, this reminded me of Bethesda games in general. I mean at least after Morrowind.

[Rynjin]

First episode was pretty good. Maximus is laughably (intentionally?) dull to the point that he comes across as borderline disabled, but I enjoyed all the Vault stuff and the little bit we got of "The Ghoul" whose identity they are trying to keep a mystery for some reason even though it's pretty clear he's the guy from the start which...the guy who did Westworld season 1 did this, right? I thought it was kinda dumb when that show did the EXACT SAME THING too.

But overall a solid setup. We'll see how the payoff goes in later episodes.

Edit:

Spoiler: Maximus

Show

Speaking of Maximus, I did think it was pretty funny that the one black guy* in the Brotherhood is introduced by being beaten, punished for no discernible reason, singled out for punishment again, caned, dragged off with a black hood over his face, then sold/gifted to somebody else and actually ****ing BRANDED, and his only contribution to that sequence is...being grateful for being given a home.

Like that was unlikely to be intentional but holy **** did NOBODY look at that sequence of events and have a big think about it?


*With lines.

[Errorname]

Spoiler

Show

The way this series handles the NCR reminds me a lot of how the Sequel Trilogy handled the New Republic, casually annihilating it in order to reset back to the starting point, and it just sucks. It makes me question why they couldn't just start a fresh telling of the story and why they feel the need to make their story a follow up to a story that they do not actually want to follow up on.

It's a real shame because I think if this show had just taken place in a completely fresh part of the setting I'd be able to pretty unreservedly enjoy it, but they've boxed themselves into being a sequel to my favourite game of all time and clearly have very different narrative and thematic goals to what made that game special.

[t209]

Part of me now wonder how much they got the script from Van Buren and old scrapped Fallout movie.

Spoiler: Series spoiler

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Like Shady Sands’ fall being based on NCR-BoS war where a group of Brotherhood commandos used stealth boys destroyed their gold reserves (hence why NCR reverted back to cash that is so inflated that caps have to be reissued) along with towns to disrupt supply lines. Maybe not enough to destroy NCR but get the capital moved and survivors to seek somewhere.
And
Vault Tec (and by extension Enclave) kick starting nuclear war.

[Pax1138]

Spoiler

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The way this series handles the NCR reminds me a lot of how the Sequel Trilogy handled the New Republic, casually annihilating it in order to reset back to the starting point, and it just sucks. It makes me question why they couldn't just start a fresh telling of the story and why they feel the need to make their story a follow up to a story that they do not actually want to follow up on.

It's a real shame because I think if this show had just taken place in a completely fresh part of the setting I'd be able to pretty unreservedly enjoy it, but they've boxed themselves into being a sequel to my favourite game of all time and clearly have very different narrative and thematic goals to what made that game special.

You and me? We agree on more than just avatars.

Spoiler: Full series spoilers

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Combine that with the 1-2 punch of Vault-tec seemingly being the bomb dropper, the stupidest idea from the old Fallout movie script, and this whole thing has got me real down. Unless they go on to clarify that this is part of the larger Enclave attempt to subborn the business elites and then have House bow out later, and then have China suprise them all by dropping the bombs ahead of schedule anyway, I can see it being the biggest, dumbed addition to Fallout in years. Making Vault-tec the bomb dropper makes no sense, and missed just about the entire point of Fallout in my opinion, all for confirming the most obvious, thoughtless twist that people have been speculating for decades anyway. Sorry, can you see it really, really bothers me?

Spoiler: Lucy

Show

I hate that I'm already seeing this Lucy=Mary Sue BS that dogs just about every female character in modern media. The word you're looking for is PROTAGONIST. She's not even that good at everything! She spends most of the show getting her ass beat and thrown from one terrible situation to another. If this was my player character in a Fallout game, trust me, she'd be a lot more bad-ass. As it is, she's about the only character in the show I don't want to eat a bullet. Even so-called fellow protagonists Max and Coop have pretty much passed the moral event horiizon a couple of times in my opinion, so the best they can hope for is to die doing something worthwhile.

[Tyndmyr]

First episode was pretty good. Maximus is laughably (intentionally?) dull to the point that he comes across as borderline disabled, but I enjoyed all the Vault stuff and the little bit we got of "The Ghoul" whose identity they are trying to keep a mystery for some reason even though it's pretty clear he's the guy from the start which...the guy who did Westworld season 1 did this, right? I thought it was kinda dumb when that show did the EXACT SAME THING too.

Ah, Westworld. It started out so very interesting, and then....

Kind of a shame. The early setup, the music, the world, all pretty fascinating, just the plot got increasingly derailed as it went on. But yes, I agree, the mystery here is so very obvious as to make the whole exercise pointless.

Edit:

Spoiler: Maximus

Show

Speaking of Maximus, I did think it was pretty funny that the one black guy* in the Brotherhood is introduced by being beaten, punished for no discernible reason, singled out for punishment again, caned, dragged off with a black hood over his face, then sold/gifted to somebody else and actually ****ing BRANDED, and his only contribution to that sequence is...being grateful for being given a home.

Like that was unlikely to be intentional but holy **** did NOBODY look at that sequence of events and have a big think about it?


*With lines.

Yeah. Yeah, one does wonder how literally nobody involved with the show looked at this and had a problem with it. Like, sure, I get that you want representation, but who is looking at that depiction and saying "yeah, that represents who I am?" Somebody had to have noticed.

Spoiler: Lucy

Show

I hate that I'm already seeing this Lucy=Mary Sue BS that dogs just about every female character in modern media. The word you're looking for is PROTAGONIST. She's not even that good at everything! She spends most of the show getting her ass beat and thrown from one terrible situation to another. If this was my player character in a Fallout game, trust me, she'd be a lot more bad-ass. As it is, she's about the only character in the show I don't want to eat a bullet. Even so-called fellow protagonists Max and Coop have pretty much passed the moral event horiizon a couple of times in my opinion, so the best they can hope for is to die doing something worthwhile.

Spoiler

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It doesn't. Movies like Atomic Blonde or the last Mad Max film come out and are generally well liked.

This character? She's boring. Lacks much in the way of defining traits, mostly doesn't have much in the way of real motivations, which makes her...not really a protagonist. A protagonist makes the plot happen. She's mostly reactive....to a world that focuses on her for no real reason. Her character would be exactly as bad if she was male, gender really isn't the cause of it.

[Pax1138]

Spoiler

Show

It doesn't. Movies like Atomic Blonde or the last Mad Max film come out and are generally well liked.

This character? She's boring. Lacks much in the way of defining traits, mostly doesn't have much in the way of real motivations, which makes her...not really a protagonist. A protagonist makes the plot happen. She's mostly reactive....to a world that focuses on her for no real reason. Her character would be exactly as bad if she was male, gender really isn't the cause of it.

Spoiler

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But... not really? She's optimistic and wants everyone to get along, a trait that gets her in trouble multiple times, but also has that spark to do the thing that needs to be done. Her motivation is to find her Dad, (Standard Bethesda plot #2 (#1 is "You're a prisoner")), which then becomes to take the doctor/his head to Moldaver so she can find her Dad once she finds out there's a link between them. They get involved with Vault 4 because she insists on trying to find some medical supplies for Max, and they get kicked out because she's trying to figure out what's going on in the Vault. They can even find the head again after that because she had the foresight to plant a tracker on it beforehand.

[Tyndmyr]

Spoiler

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Video games ain't movies or tv shows. You can't generally get away with doing the same things for one as for the other. Blank slate protagonists are really, really common in video games specifically so that the player determines motivations, actions, and becomes the protagonist. That works fine. In a TV show, there is no player to supply that, so the scriptwriter must do it.

The other way, of imposing tv show/movie standards on games, basically takes the form of lots of mandatory story via quicktime events, and is similarly terrible.

If the plot involves fifty hours of random side quests before returning to the urgent main plot, as is also typical for Bethesda video games, it would also be terrible in a TV show.

[Darth Credence]

The show is great - my favorite video game to screen adaptation ever. Lucy is fun and funny, Walter Goggins as Coop is as outstanding as he always is, Maximus and the rest of the Brotherhood are bad people but that is who they are supposed to be, the action scenes are everything I hoped for.

The people I work with who are currently talking about it and love it consist of a half dozen people who have played the games and love the show, five people who haven't played the games but like sci-fi/fantasy type stuff and love the show, two people who have only liked Game of Thrones in terms of sci-fi/fantasy and love the show (we had to convince them to give it a shot), and one person who can't watch because of the gore, but enjoyed the stuff they saw before too much gore put them off.

My wife has never played the games before, although she knows about them because of me. After asking which one I would recommend, she started playing Fallout 4 last night (I went with that for the more modern playability, since I can't mod the others for her as she is only comfortable on console). She and her friend, who never played before, are both talking about it and discussing how to play and what to do. Neither would have without the show.

[oudeis]

Tim Cain gives it the Pip-Boy thumbs up:

[Mx.Silver]

Spoiler

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It doesn't. Movies like Atomic Blonde or the last Mad Max film come out and are generally well liked.

Spoiler

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No, Fury Road absolutely had people doing this about Furiosa (and how her portrayal was coming at Max's 'expense') — there's still a few of the dead-enders who'll go-off about that now — they were just mostly a minority of the really die-hard 'culture warriors' and were largely ignored after a couple of weeks.

There were also some similar grumblings about Atomic Blonde when that was announced, although I don't think that lasted after the actual release. Not that much discussion about Atomic Blonde in general lasted for very long either, obviously.

[Lemmy]

As someone who watched MMFR 4 times in theaters...

Yes. There were half a dozen nobodies complaining about Fury Road... And no one took them seriously. They were a tiny tiny minority who still keep being used as an example as if they represented a significant part of anything...

That doesn't change the fact that Lucy is a pretty boring character and would still be just as boring if she were Luke instead. One can claim it's "the BS that dogs female protagonists"... But to me, that sounds like once again blaming viewers for not liking a poorly written character, and using said character's gender as an excuse to do it.

Lucy is dull. So dull that i only remember her name because I saw it here... And so are the other characters, TBH... Though not quite as much as her.

[Rodin]

Watched the first couple episodes, and as one of the pre-release naysayers I'm compelled to admit I was wrong (so far at least). It's not perfect, but they managed to get a very good Fallout vibe on this thing and I was thoroughly entertained by these opening episodes. It can get a bit whacky in places (some of the Wastelanders felt too dumb/crazy to live) but this is Fallout we're talking about here. The action and comedy are both the right kind of over-the-top.

I only have three complaints with what I've seen so far, two of which are pretty minor and the third will depend on how the story plays out (so you if you've seen further please keep in mind my lack of knowledge if you respond).

The first is that the references are a bit in your face. I really felt like the show was dancing up and down and pointing at some of the references going "See! It's the thing! Remember the thing? Isn't it cool we have the thing?" It's not enough to ruin the experience, but it did jar me out of my watching a couple times.

The second is that some of the CGI/special effects are pretty dodgy. The power armor in particular has issues in episode 2, where a couple of the action shots look like an amateur could have done them better. Again, not the worst thing in the world, but if I'm noticing CGI problems somebody goofed somewhere.

The third is a plot point from episode 1:

Spoiler

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How did the sister vault get overrun with raiders with nobody noticing? It's implied that the crops failed and then either the people inside died on their own or were killed a long time ago (long enough for the bodies to rot down into cadavers), and then the raiders took over the vault and used documentation they found to spoof their way into the attack. Which seems like an awful long-laid plan given that the inciting incident comes from inside Lucy's vault - specifically, she initiates her own arranged marriage. So the Raiders took over the other vault, didn't clear away the bodies, and then just...sat there and waited? Wasn't the other vault in contact with Lucy's vault regularly through telegram? Why wouldn't they have been in constant communication with their sister vault letting them know of problems like the crops dying?

Based on the information we're given in episode 1, it doesn't make any sense. I hope we get more information later that explains this in a satisfying way.

I also have...not a complaint, but a disagreement with the characters.

Spoiler: Episode 1

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When Lucy asks to go look for her father, she is voted down immediately. Not just by the council, but by everybody. Her little group say that this is because the council wants to hang on to power now that the Overseer is gone, and that they're acting selfishly.

NO THEY FREAKING AREN'T!

The Vault was just devastated by an attack. Given the carnage we see they've probably lost half their population, if not more. The place has been badly damaged, and most of the survivors are wounded. Opening the Vault doors at this time is the height of stupidity, and sending a couple of your remaining people out into the irradiated wasteland is a fool's mission. You have no idea where the Raiders went, what other dangers are out there, and if you do manage to track down the Raiders...what are you going to DO about it? These guys were hardened warriors that just kicked your ass. How are you going to get him back even if you find him?

Someone going out to rescue him only makes sense in action movies and videogames. The series is basically both so I don't have a problem with Lucy deciding to go, but the idea that the council is somehow wrong is just...No.

Again, this isn't really a complaint, because realism takes a back seat to swashbuckling action adventure. But I needed to rant about that.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

Haven't finished yet, but without spoiling anything specific, both of your points are addressed later on, Rodin. Vault 33 actually becomes its own viewpoint alongside the other three "main" characters, which was something I didn't expect.

Overall, 4 episodes in, I'm really enjoying it. I has a good mix of old Fallout and Bethesda Fallout. I think the writing is solid, hitting just enough camp and zaniness without going overboard and smothering the intrigue, and the acting is superb. I'm pleasantly surprised that it hasn't made the mistake of the Bethesda Fallouts and gone full 50s with everything. It seems to carry on the spirit of the original games where the post-war world was its own thing and the 50s retrofuture optimism was deliberately juxtaposed against what the future actually became, instead of Bethesda's Fallout world which was trying to ape the 50s as much as possible.

I did notice that the initial appearance of the power armor was some terrible CGI, but it seems to blend in better later on. I don't know if they just didn't have the budget to go back and clean up some scenes or if there's some practical effects worked in, but I haven't been distracted since then. The rad-creatures look pretty good, too.

[Maelstrom]

Fantastic adaptation, exceeded my expectation, which, frankly, were not that high, but having said that, I guess they knocked it out of the ballpark. Nailed the humor, ambience and feel of the fallout universe (color palettes, the VATS system, crits, etc). Yeah, many corny things, but hello...they are definitely in the games and felt familiar. Acting was top notch, writing was mostly very well done. I do look forward to a second season and heck, I might even blow the dust off of the fallout diskettes (well, maybe not, those will stay in my collection, but I'll spin up my Steam copy)

Now to ...

Edit:

Spoiler: Maximus

Show

Speaking of Maximus, I did think it was pretty funny that the one black guy* in the Brotherhood is introduced by being beaten, punished for no discernible reason, singled out for punishment again, caned, dragged off with a black hood over his face, then sold/gifted to somebody else and actually ****ing BRANDED, and his only contribution to that sequence is...being grateful for being given a home.

Like that was unlikely to be intentional but holy **** did NOBODY look at that sequence of events and have a big think about it?


*With lines.

If you're going to go looking for such things, you'll find it wherever you look, no matter what it is. This 21st century of the Rorschach test is just done. Let it be.

[Darth Credence]

I did notice that the initial appearance of the power armor was some terrible CGI, but it seems to blend in better later on. I don't know if they just didn't have the budget to go back and clean up some scenes or if there's some practical effects worked in, but I haven't been distracted since then. The rad-creatures look pretty good, too.

The power armor, when it's Titus and Maximus, is a practical suit with a stuntman in it. The actor who plays Lucy was on the Tonight Show and they showed a clip of the stuntman flossing in the suit.

[Rodin]

The power armor, when it's Titus and Maximus, is a practical suit with a stuntman in it. The actor who plays Lucy was on the Tonight Show and they showed a clip of the stuntman flossing in the suit.

The actual suit looks great, it had a good feel of weight to it when they were stomping around in it. It's also instantly recognizable as the T-60 power armor, which should be a given but sadly isn't when it comes to adaptations (looking at you, Wheel of Time). The problem came when they needed to do CGI stuff with it during the action sequences. When the suit was flying through the air in episode 2 it looked like someone had superimposed Clipart over the screen, which is something I expect out of a Youtube content creator. There's other bits during the same sequence where the physics don't feel right.

It's not a major thing, hence why I'm calling the CG "a bit dodgy". There's some sequences where it feels unfinished and could have done with another pass.

Planning on resuming my watch either tomorrow or Monday. I do wish that they had released one or two episodes a week instead of dropping the whole thing. There's a lot of pressure to binge the whole thing when it all shows up at once, because it's impossible to have water-cooler conversations about each episode.

[t209]

I am wondering but was Fallout 3 really solidify 1950’s aesthetics?
Like franchise as a whole took inspiration from it BUT 1 and 2 seems to play more loosely like P90, Desert Eagle, and 10mm Submachine Gun having 90’s vibe.
Gonna miss the FN Fal assault rifle though (or maybe go with Combat Shogun look).

[ecarden]

Generally quite enjoyed it. I didn't particularly like the two big larger canon choices:

Spoiler: Larger Canon Choices

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As I think the destruction of the NCR is just boring and frankly repetitive storytelling. You've already got the Ghoul and a bunch of other characters, both in and outside this series who are survivors of the fall of civilization, you don't have to do the same thing again to get some more.

Additionally, I think having a more definitive Big Bad for the entire franchise, which is what Vault-Tec is now, is just a bad idea. Fallout works a lot better as a Warhammeresque setting than as a Star Warsesque story, in my opinion.

If this had been set in a different location, or I had been less familiar with the larger canon, I think I would have really loved it. There's a lot of really good stuff in there, but...bit hard to figure out how to phrase this. A really good plot twist recontextualizes everything to make more (or at least, the same amount just in a different way) sense than it did before you knew the plot twist. Like, the twist at the end of Scream, that there are two killers, explains a lot of stuff that didn't make sense otherwise, but got a pass as typical slasher jump scare stuff. Here, once we know the twist, the plot makes less sense? Like

Spoiler: Twist

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Okay, So Moldaver is, somehow, from the pre-apocalypse age and is desperate to regain her stolen cold fusion technology so she can bring it to the world and restart civilization. Vault-tec stole it, but she's going to get it back from an Enclave scientist and needs a code from a Vault-tec lackey to unlock it once she gets it. She knows that there's at least one Vault-tec lacker in Vault 32, the overseer, Hank. She's allied herself with the remnants of the NCR for support and has fairly significant military force, as well as an impressive reputation in the area.

She also has a bunch of pipboys from Vault 32 and managed to get into Vault 32 at some point, presumably revealing the secret of what Vault-Tec was up to, which resulted in the civil war there? Maybe? It's not entirely clear if she was involved in that, though she had Rose and presumably Rose's Pipboy, so I don't know who else it could have been? Anyway, she's able to get into Vault 32, she arranges this deal with Vault 33 to get access, presumably because she can't break in there like she could in 32, even though no one knows that she (or someone) broke into 32...but even though she knows the protocol and knows that Hank is going to be the one answering the door (or if not him, than whoever the overseer is will be a Vault-tec stooge) she goes through this elaborate infiltration with a bunch of crazed raiders, all to kidnap Hank, who is the guy who answered the door for her. Like, two NCR guys with rifles and she could have grabbed him right there and not set up her friend's daughter to be raped and murdered.

But okay, she goes for this whole infiltration, sets up a choice (which isn't a choice, because everyone survives, without anyone doing anything clever, they just run away from the bomb and are fine) and leaves Lucy behind, even though she needs to be able to force Hank's compliance and Lucy is right there. Take them both, then when you get the device, tell Hank, put in the code, or I cut Lucy's throat. Also, if she hates Vault-Tec so much, it's really weird to just leave Vault 31 alone?

So, the reveal that she's hooked in with the NCR remnants and her actual motives are basically good doesn't explain her earlier actions, it just confuses the heck out of them? Especially given that she has to at least seen what happened in Vault 32, where once people knew what was going on, they turned on the Vault 31ers in a bloodbath...speaking of which, who the hell cleaned up Vault 32? I was assuming there was a large staff in Vault 31, but then it's just a brain and a bunch of frozen executives...

[Errorname]

Spoiler: Larger Canon Choices

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As I think the destruction of the NCR is just boring and frankly repetitive storytelling. You've already got the Ghoul and a bunch of other characters, both in and outside this series who are survivors of the fall of civilization, you don't have to do the same thing again to get some more.

Spoiler: Larger Canon Choices

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I also found the idea that the NCR represented a threat to the grand conspiracy and thus had to be destroyed is a less interesting way to push it than the sort of fracturing under the weight of it's own expansionism that New Vegas was setting up. I thought it was frustrating when Bethesda kept saying "well, someone was rebuilding into a functioning state but the big bad [institute/scorchbeasts] destroyed them so it's still just wasteland" about factions I hadn't met yet, pulling that stunt on a faction with three games of build-up feels so much worse.

Spoiler: Larger Canon Choices

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Additionally, I think having a more definitive Big Bad for the entire franchise, which is what Vault-Tec is now, is just a bad idea. Fallout works a lot better as a Warhammeresque setting than as a Star Warsesque story, in my opinion.

Spoiler

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It's also kind of repetitive, the Enclave already were the brains behind Vault-Tec that survived into the Wasteland era and tried to kill everyone.

This show is not convincing me that it should have been a sequel rather than retelling the story of the first game forward in a new medium.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

Spoiler: Twist

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Okay, So Moldaver is, somehow, from the pre-apocalypse age and is desperate to regain her stolen cold fusion technology so she can bring it to the world and restart civilization. Vault-tec stole it, but she's going to get it back from an Enclave scientist and needs a code from a Vault-tec lackey to unlock it once she gets it. She knows that there's at least one Vault-tec lacker in Vault 32, the overseer, Hank. She's allied herself with the remnants of the NCR for support and has fairly significant military force, as well as an impressive reputation in the area.

She also has a bunch of pipboys from Vault 32 and managed to get into Vault 32 at some point, presumably revealing the secret of what Vault-Tec was up to, which resulted in the civil war there? Maybe? It's not entirely clear if she was involved in that, though she had Rose and presumably Rose's Pipboy, so I don't know who else it could have been? Anyway, she's able to get into Vault 32, she arranges this deal with Vault 33 to get access, presumably because she can't break in there like she could in 32, even though no one knows that she (or someone) broke into 32...but even though she knows the protocol and knows that Hank is going to be the one answering the door (or if not him, than whoever the overseer is will be a Vault-tec stooge) she goes through this elaborate infiltration with a bunch of crazed raiders, all to kidnap Hank, who is the guy who answered the door for her. Like, two NCR guys with rifles and she could have grabbed him right there and not set up her friend's daughter to be raped and murdered.

But okay, she goes for this whole infiltration, sets up a choice (which isn't a choice, because everyone survives, without anyone doing anything clever, they just run away from the bomb and are fine) and leaves Lucy behind, even though she needs to be able to force Hank's compliance and Lucy is right there. Take them both, then when you get the device, tell Hank, put in the code, or I cut Lucy's throat. Also, if she hates Vault-Tec so much, it's really weird to just leave Vault 31 alone?

So, the reveal that she's hooked in with the NCR remnants and her actual motives are basically good doesn't explain her earlier actions, it just confuses the heck out of them? Especially given that she has to at least seen what happened in Vault 32, where once people knew what was going on, they turned on the Vault 31ers in a bloodbath...speaking of which, who the hell cleaned up Vault 32? I was assuming there was a large staff in Vault 31, but then it's just a brain and a bunch of frozen executives...

Spoiler

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I think they still have a lot to explain about Moldaver and I wouldn't be surprised if she came back in Season 2. She obviously had some way to survive for 200+ years. The fact that everyone knows her and she hasn't seemed to age at all suggests it wasn't just cryonics. If she was frozen all this time, she wouldn't have a cult, and if she'd been thawed earlier, she'd have aged more. Maybe she has some mutation or science quackery keeping her going. I think her quote in the flashback about hypocrisy being necessary to avoid defeat explains a lot about her character.
She's not above being exactly as horrible as Vault-Tec because she thinks she has a better goal.

I think the attack on Vault 33 was just her getting revenge. It's pretty clear she hates Vault-Tec enough that she'd consider everyone in there acceptable collateral. Maybe she just spared Lucy and the gang at the end because she remembered her mother? Vault 32 was cleaned up by the 31ers. It's implied that there are more of them, since both Betty and Steph are from there and are in on it.

Moldaver's definitely the most confusing and weakest character in the show, though. I also found it funny that Hank even gave her the code at the end. Like, why? All he had to do was say nothing and she loses. He didn't have anything to gain by telling her and she had no leverage against him.
If she'd threatened Lucy, it'd make more sense.

All said and done, it's not like the Fallout games are at all renowned for their amazing plots. The show largely rehashes Fallout 3 with the vault dweller leaving in search of their father with a mysterious past and, in doing so, commits almost all of the same plot fumbles. It was still an enjoyable show and one of the better video game adaptations I've seen.

[ecarden]

Spoiler

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I think they still have a lot to explain about Moldaver and I wouldn't be surprised if she came back in Season 2. She obviously had some way to survive for 200+ years. The fact that everyone knows her and she hasn't seemed to age at all suggests it wasn't just cryonics. If she was frozen all this time, she wouldn't have a cult, and if she'd been thawed earlier, she'd have aged more. Maybe she has some mutation or science quackery keeping her going. I think her quote in the flashback about hypocrisy being necessary to avoid defeat explains a lot about her character.
She's not above being exactly as horrible as Vault-Tec because she thinks she has a better goal.

I think the attack on Vault 33 was just her getting revenge. It's pretty clear she hates Vault-Tec enough that she'd consider everyone in there acceptable collateral. Maybe she just spared Lucy and the gang at the end because she remembered her mother? Vault 32 was cleaned up by the 31ers. It's implied that there are more of them, since both Betty and Steph are from there and are in on it.

Moldaver's definitely the most confusing and weakest character in the show, though. I also found it funny that Hank even gave her the code at the end. Like, why? All he had to do was say nothing and she loses. He didn't have anything to gain by telling her and she had no leverage against him.
If she'd threatened Lucy, it'd make more sense.

So, I don't think that works:

Spoiler: Moldaver

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I agree that I doubt we're done with her, though I expect she only shows up in flashbacks going forward as she ends the series (unless I'm confused) dead at the feet of the Brotherhood invaders, who aren't likely to just leave her to resurrect, or whatever. Now, I agree that there's likely to be some additional backstory, amongst other things, the Ghoul comments on her not looking like he remembered, or something to that effect and there's presumably a reason despite them working together (presumably) in the past, they aren't buddies now. When you add in the hypocrisy statement, I wouldn't be shocked if she'd made herself into an AI in a vault somewhere, or something, but we'll see. Assuming it gets a second season, which I do hope for.

Spoiler: Vault Attack

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So, I've heard the notion that she was planning to do worse, then was reminded of Rose by seeing Lucy (though she also sees her at the start, and throughout, but you can handwave that as its seeing Lucy fight back, not be a perfect Vault Dweller that triggers the memory/mercy) but at that point she's already on her way out. She very transparently is not finishing the job, but is rather abandoning the fight (and 16 of her raiders--who apparently aren't NCR? Why is she using raiders for this? If it's supposed to be deniability she needs to be a lot more secret, after all 'everyone knows who she is, right?').

Like, if this was actually about her hatred of Vault-Tec, then Vault 33 ought to have ended up just like Vault 32. I'd have also expected some attempt at getting into Vault 31, given how easy it appears to be. If her goal was to snatch Hank, there's a lot better ways to do that with the resources she has. If her goal is to wipe out the Vault and she just fails due to sheer numbers, or the handful of folks who fight back effectively, or whatever, that really doesn't seem to be conveyed, at least to me? Now, scale is always a problem with these sorts of productions, because people and costumes are expensive, especially if they have to be visibly fighting. And the usual shorthand used for this just doesn't work for raiders, who simply aren't' going to start yelling out status reports and that their perimeters are being overrun and all the usual signallers. But in the end, it feels to me like the attempted misdirect to set up the twist of Moldaver's actual goals/resources simply confuses the issue. I mean, even something little like pulling the trigger at the actual wedding, so you aren't getting your dear friend's stolen daughter married off to a psychopathic raider, might be nice?

Spoiler: Clean-Up

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I really don't think it can be the Vault 31 folks. If they're popping in and out of cryo like that, then the overseer would have woke some of them up to help him deal with Norman. Also, they're a bunch of middle managers and executives, I don't exactly picture them scrubbing up brains...

Spoiler: Mystery of Vault 32

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So, Vault 32 has been dead for, as I understand it, approximately 2 years. Rose's Pipboy was used to access it at some point (I don't think we got a date, just that it was the last one to do so?). Rose (and presumably her Pipboy) are in Moldaver's hands. Rose has been dead/feral since Shady Sands, which was ~20 years ago. Vault 32 was not stormed, but rather fell to civil war/suicide, presumably because they learned the truth about what Vault-Tec had done and was doing, based on what we see.

No one in Vault 31 or 33 knows about this, so presumably either they don't communicate much, even to their boss, who is a brain in a jaw with basically nothing to do but communicate, or Moldaver/one of her people was lying to them. This might explain the 'famine' if they understood Vault 31's tactics, you could do a whole thing about 'previous overseer died, instigating famine to ensure I'm elected' but then...what? If she was able to get into Vault 32 and do as she pleased, why does she need this trade to do in Vault 33? Does anyone have a clear timeline here for what happened?

I do hope it gets a second season and think it's extremely fun tonally, extremely impressive visually and I'm actually quite impressed by the characters and the willingness for the characters to be *******s/messed up and the moment-to-moment writing is fine-to-good, with moments that are either great, or made great by the actors (the whole selling her to be dissected section is excellent and I really enjoyed the wasteland golden rule) but the actual plotting is, in my view, quite weak for an eight episode miniseries, which is basically what this is.

I agree that the writing on a lot of fallout games isn't the tightest and it suffers from classical open-world syndrome of either repeating information ad-nauseum, or assuming you know/did something you didn't, or vice versa and even when it does work, the plotting tends to be fairly simple as it needs to account for a lot of variables and allow the player to self-insert, but this is an eight episode miniseries--tight plotting ought to be quite straightforward! They don't have to account for 'what do we do if Maximus actually does give that **** the stimpack he wants?'