Fallout on Prime post-release thread

[Talakeal]

I binged it in a single sitting yesterday.

Way exceeded expectations. It is obvious they spent a lot of money on this and were very careful to not contradict the game's lore.

At times it is a bit too goofy or too dark for my taste, but I guess that is Fallout.

Lot's of cool Easter egg references to the games, both in universe and out.

The power armor was awesomely done, they really sold how impressive it was (until about the last five minutes).

Yes, I also felt myself making a lot of comparisons to The Force Awakens.

Sad we didn't see any super mutants, death claws, or rad scorpions. At least, not living ones.

The ending left so much up in the air, I am really looking forward to season two. But at the same time, I am really dreading them messing up New Vegas, or having a canon ending / identity for the courier.


My nitpicks:

Why could they not license Viva Las Vegas for the end credits? Netflix was able to do it for the opening of Army of the Dead!

The soldiers of the brotherhood are PALADINS. The Knights are the guys who build and maintain the equipment. (I think Fallout 4 gets this wrong as well).

They are sealed in a vault for over 200 years. They are worried about inbreeding and everyone is kissing cousins. So why are there still distinct ethnic minorities in the vault? Is it really that hard to find biracial actors?

Odd that Lucy keeps her dress on during her wedding night, but then everyone in Vault 4 strips naked for no reason later on.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

I'd venture the assumption that Lucy doesn't get naked on her wedding night or anywhere else in the show because Ella Purnell didn't agree to do nude scenes. It's kinda funny given how extremely sex-positive her character is, but I don't begrudge an actress for not wanting to put herself on display.

[JadedDM]

I have a theory on the Moldaver plotholes. It's mostly head-cannon, but I think it fits. But I haven't put too much thought into it, so feel free to tear it to shreds if you can find some inconsistencies.

Spoiler

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I think Moldaver worked for Vault-Tec. It was never specifically stated, as far as I remember, but she seemed to have intimate knowledge of what was going on there in the past (claiming to personally know Cooper's wife and having seen a side of her that he was not aware of). I'm not sure if she infiltrated them with intent or if she was an earnest employee who learned the truth about how horrible they were and decided to betray them. Either way, she was working against them from the inside.

So I suspect she actually was frozen with the rest of them in Vault 31. At some point she was thawed and put into Vault 32. I suspect she fled the vault and integrated into the NCR, climbing the ranks there. Maybe with the intent of using them against Vault-Tec some day, or maybe she was just trying to start a new life. That's when she met Rose. After Hank retrieved his kids and nuked Shady Sands, she put together a band of raiders, used Rose's Pipboy to access Vault 32, and revealed to them the Truth (tm). Which caused mass panic and hysteria and they all killed each other and themselves (not sure if that had been her intent or not, but it happened regardless).

In any case, she took over the now empty Vault 32, sending telegrams to the other two vaults that she had been elected leader after the previous one tragically died. This explains why Hank didn't freak out when he saw her. It's possible he had no idea she had ever left Vault 32 in the first place, since it was made clear the three vaults don't communicate all that much directly. As far as he knew, she remained in 32 and was eventually elected leader since, 'when things look glum, vote 31.'

Admittedly there are still some minor holes here, like why did Moldaver infiltrate 32 instead of going straight for 33? (Maybe she had originally intended to use the 32 Overseer for her plan, but when he was killed, she made a new plan to get into 33? But considering Hank was Overseer of 33 and she had a personal grudge against him for nuking Shady Sands...I'm not sure why she would not have wanted to use him in the first place.)

But this theory does at least fill a few of the holes.

[ecarden]

I have a theory on the Moldaver plotholes. It's mostly head-cannon, but I think it fits. But I haven't put too much thought into it, so feel free to tear it to shreds if you can find some inconsistencies.

Spoiler

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I think Moldaver worked for Vault-Tec. It was never specifically stated, as far as I remember, but she seemed to have intimate knowledge of what was going on there in the past (claiming to personally know Cooper's wife and having seen a side of her that he was not aware of). I'm not sure if she infiltrated them with intent or if she was an earnest employee who learned the truth about how horrible they were and decided to betray them. Either way, she was working against them from the inside.

So I suspect she actually was frozen with the rest of them in Vault 31. At some point she was thawed and put into Vault 32. I suspect she fled the vault and integrated into the NCR, climbing the ranks there. Maybe with the intent of using them against Vault-Tec some day, or maybe she was just trying to start a new life. That's when she met Rose. After Hank retrieved his kids and nuked Shady Sands, she put together a band of raiders, used Rose's Pipboy to access Vault 32, and revealed to them the Truth (tm). Which caused mass panic and hysteria and they all killed each other and themselves (not sure if that had been her intent or not, but it happened regardless).

In any case, she took over the now empty Vault 32, sending telegrams to the other two vaults that she had been elected leader after the previous one tragically died. This explains why Hank didn't freak out when he saw her. It's possible he had no idea she had ever left Vault 32 in the first place, since it was made clear the three vaults don't communicate all that much directly. As far as he knew, she remained in 32 and was eventually elected leader since, 'when things look glum, vote 31.'

Admittedly there are still some minor holes here, like why did Moldaver infiltrate 32 instead of going straight for 33? (Maybe she had originally intended to use the 32 Overseer for her plan, but when he was killed, she made a new plan to get into 33? But considering Hank was Overseer of 33 and she had a personal grudge against him for nuking Shady Sands...I'm not sure why she would not have wanted to use him in the first place.)

But this theory does at least fill a few of the holes.

So, I think some of this is fairly likely, but there's still a lot of issues.

Spoiler

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Given her statements about hypocrisy and reappearance (especially lack of aging over ~20 years on camera), it seems likely she was either pursuing her own route to survival, or did more than just take a buyout from all those companies which Vault-Tec took over. I really doubt she was in 31, though, as that seems to just be Bud's Buds, not the real Vault-Tec elite, as seen by the plan to follow Hank to the actual leadership, which clearly isn't in 31.

I don't think 32 works as immediate vengeance for the nuking, as there appears to be a 15-20 year gap. If raiders had been all she could pull together in the immediate aftermath, that would make a lot of sense, but by this point in the timeline, she's working with the NCR remnants and has her own base of operations/reputation.

Given the Raiders statement to Norm, I don't think they were involved in what happened in 32, he could be lying, but his line about not knowing what was going on in there, but the people weren't innocent, doesn't gibe with someone who actually does know what happened and saw Vault 32 erupt into civil war and mass suicide. But the other problem is the two-year delay between the fall of 32 and the trade with 33. Given that they deliberately give a time frame for it, I hope there's going to be some sort of explanation of this in season 2 (assuming it happens) as we've still got Norm and other characters back in those vaults.

[t209]

The soldiers of the brotherhood are PALADINS. The Knights are the guys who build and maintain the equipment. (I think Fallout 4 gets this wrong as well).

I think it was Fallout 3 that started mixing up knights with Paladins.
Or ignoring the context (3’s brotherhood being breakaway and had to arm Knights due to manpower shortage).

[Errorname]

I think it was Fallout 3 that started mixing up knights with Paladins.
Or ignoring the context (3’s brotherhood being breakaway and had to arm Knights due to manpower shortage).

My understanding has always been that while Paladins were the elites, the Knights are also expected to be soldiers. More of a support role but still frontliners.

[t209]

My understanding has always been that while Paladins were the elites, the Knights are also expected to be soldiers. More of a support role but still frontliners.

Yeah, they do.
But FO3 had them in power armor as well.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Knight_(Fallout_3)

[Pax1138]

In the original games, the Paladins had the power armor, and were the elite soldiers/officers. Knights were like enlisted grunts and non-comms who got to do all the grunt work and work in the "motorpool", and if they went soldiering, it was in standard combat armor.

Since the Bethesda games, that's been changing, until Fallout 4's rendition, where Scribes now handle all of the tech work, Knights are soldiers, some with combat armor and some with power armor, and Paladins seemingly are even more elite and rare.

We can probably blame this one the newer Brotherhood's seemingly larger supplies of T-60 power armor (however it is they got them), and losing a lot of the more experienced soldiers during campaigns against the super mutants and Enclave. So now that power armor is more plentiful, and veterans more rare, the bar for who gets it is lowered, which also makes their general forces a lot more dangerous, and with more of the Knights in a field role, Scribes have had to take up the tech slack.

[Tyndmyr]

The actual suit looks great, it had a good feel of weight to it when they were stomping around in it. It's also instantly recognizable as the T-60 power armor, which should be a given but sadly isn't when it comes to adaptations (looking at you, Wheel of Time). The problem came when they needed to do CGI stuff with it during the action sequences. When the suit was flying through the air in episode 2 it looked like someone had superimposed Clipart over the screen, which is something I expect out of a Youtube content creator. There's other bits during the same sequence where the physics don't feel right.

It's not a major thing, hence why I'm calling the CG "a bit dodgy". There's some sequences where it feels unfinished and could have done with another pass.

Yeah, I made it halfway through episode 2, and have the same grumble. Like, look at when he punches the (person he is fighting to avoid spoilers). The physics are insane. You can basically see the rope pulling the latter slowly away. It doesn't feel at all like the power that was attempted to be conveyed earlier.

Perhaps I shall see if I can get further later.

[Talakeal]

Yeah, I made it halfway through episode 2, and have the same grumble. Like, look at when he punches the (person he is fighting to avoid spoilers). The physics are insane. You can basically see the rope pulling the latter slowly away. It doesn't feel at all like the power that was attempted to be conveyed earlier.

Perhaps I shall see if I can get further later.

Yeah, the wire-work is pretty bad.

I really like the shows depiction of power armor overall, it is one of the few pieces of media that really shows the weight and mass and force behind it, but it does not look right when people are getting tossed around.

[Rodin]

For what it's worth, I thought the effects in episode 3 were a significant step up. It had some really good creature effects. It's pretty much just the power armor, and as noted earlier the power armor looks great whenever its the practical suit.

[Rynjin]

All right, finished my fairly leisurely stroll through the series. Overarching rating of the series is that it's a 7/10 overall; I had it at about an 8.5 before the final episode.

Detailed thoughts on various subjects:

Spoiler: The Ghoul

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Sadly as good of an actor as Walton Goggins is..."The Ghoul"/Post-war Coop is easily the weakest link of the series. Basically nothing he does make sense. I simply do not buy him as a survivor and world-renowned badass. It seems like the only reason he's lived as long as he has is that while he is incredibly, unbelievably stupid everyone else around him is somehow dumber. Like the "President" cutting him loose...not disarming him...then having his own guard DISARMED, and then, only then telling them to kill him. Or the Brotherhood guys sitting there and listening to him monologue while he explains a heretofore unknown fatal flaw with the T-60 that lets somebody with a shotgun kill any Power Armor wearer instantly. The plot armor is strong with this one, ugh.

Spoiler: The Plot

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The motivations of most of these characters make zero sense. This in itself is kinda fine for most of the series but it really rears its head when Moldaver explains her motivations and yet it explains absolutely NOTHING. How does she know this stuff? And more importantly, what was her ****ing endgame with this cold fusion reactor?

I don't mind TOO much that Shady Sands was destroyed, though it being nuked makes little sense. Would have made more sense if it was sacked or something. I mind IMMENSELY that it seems like New Vegas has fallen in the last 15 years, and I don't see a way they can write their way around how spiteful and nonsensical that seems. Especially after featuring Mr. House in the flashback.

But the main thing is that the three main characters have...[precisely zero reason to be at odds, and yet they are because the plot demands they be. I genuinely have no clue why Maximus and Lucy split up at the end, or why Lucy thinks she has any leverage at the end. Or why Hank gives Moldaver the code.

Basically, the core issue with the plot is that everyone is ****ing stupid.

[Maelstrom]

All right, finished my fairly leisurely stroll through the series. Overarching rating of the series is that it's a 7/10 overall; I had it at about an 8.5 before the final episode.

Detailed thoughts on various subjects:

Spoiler: The Ghoul

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Sadly as good of an actor as Walton Goggins is..."The Ghoul"/Post-war Coop is easily the weakest link of the series. Basically nothing he does make sense. I simply do not buy him as a survivor and world-renowned badass. It seems like the only reason he's lived as long as he has is that while he is incredibly, unbelievably stupid everyone else around him is somehow dumber. Like the "President" cutting him loose...not disarming him...then having his own guard DISARMED, and then, only then telling them to kill him. Or the Brotherhood guys sitting there and listening to him monologue while he explains a heretofore unknown fatal flaw with the T-60 that lets somebody with a shotgun kill any Power Armor wearer instantly. The plot armor is strong with this one, ugh.

Spoiler: The Plot

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The motivations of most of these characters make zero sense. This in itself is kinda fine for most of the series but it really rears its head when Moldaver explains her motivations and yet it explains absolutely NOTHING. How does she know this stuff? And more importantly, what was her ****ing endgame with this cold fusion reactor?

I don't mind TOO much that Shady Sands was destroyed, though it being nuked makes little sense. Would have made more sense if it was sacked or something. I mind IMMENSELY that it seems like New Vegas has fallen in the last 15 years, and I don't see a way they can write their way around how spiteful and nonsensical that seems. Especially after featuring Mr. House in the flashback.

But the main thing is that the three main characters have...[precisely zero reason to be at odds, and yet they are because the plot demands they be. I genuinely have no clue why Maximus and Lucy split up at the end, or why Lucy thinks she has any leverage at the end. Or why Hank gives Moldaver the code.

Basically, the core issue with the plot is that everyone is ****ing stupid.

My thoughts on those plot holes/scenes is that, like in the first episode in that big shootout, there were references/tie-ins on how VATS might look in the "real world". We all know how the real world works, and it's not like that, but to get a sense of how the game world is, it was directed as such. The scene where Coop is soliloquizing about this and that..yeah, makes no sense in our world, but in the video game world of Fallout, when actions are paused during dialog...it fits. For me, it brought the game to life in a film format (for better or worse, depending on what one likes, of course)

[Rynjin]

My thoughts on those plot holes/scenes is that, like in the first episode in that big shootout, there were references/tie-ins on how VATS might look in the "real world". We all know how the real world works, and it's not like that, but to get a sense of how the game world is, it was directed as such. The scene where Coop is soliloquizing about this and that..yeah, makes no sense in our world, but in the video game world of Fallout, when actions are paused during dialog...it fits. For me, it brought the game to life in a film format (for better or worse, depending on what one likes, of course)

VATS works off a Pip-Boy. The Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System. Coop doesn't have one.

But even if he did, it's still...frustrating to watch.

[Spore]

I'd venture the assumption that Lucy doesn't get naked on her wedding night or anywhere else in the show because Ella Purnell didn't agree to do nude scenes. It's kinda funny given how extremely sex-positive her character is, but I don't begrudge an actress for not wanting to put herself on display.

Sex positive does not mean nudist necessarily. Plus, you really dont want a bunch of hyper nerds on reddit to get footage of your nude body if you value your sanity, honestly.

On a larger note, I think you can only have fun with this series if you can silence your brain and make it go on "video game logic". With shotguns piercing power armor, stims mending life threatening injuries, Vault dwellers overlooking gigantic logic holes in both their own vault and with behavior of other people. Yes, vaulties are naive, but they are not stupid. If you say hobble secretively away from the overseer's computer, they are gonna know you did something. Yes, they are no secret service to bind you to a chair and torture the info out of you, but you WILL be interrogated.

And my only big complaint: HOW ON EARTH DOES NO ONE IN FALLOUT KNOW WHAT A ****ING DOOR IS?! HOW DOES NO ONE CHECK WHO IS BEHIND THE DOOR BEFORE OPENING?! HOW ARE PEOPLE SWAYED AFTER FOUR LINES?

Spoiler: a small list

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The Vault 33 overseer's bureau is not locked.
Vault 31 letting Norm who claims to be Betty, but doing a DNA scan a minute later.
The Brotherhood questioning Maximus after Titus' death, with like three lines fully convincing the Elder to let him off the hook.
The Enclave going into full lockdown after an alarm blaring, and a high ranking scientist hurriedly leaving with his favorite (?) dog
No one noticing Maximus' BoS knight/squire gear. Geez, in any decent post apo scenario you would be the first one to be pick pocketed and/or shot. Get a ****ing duster to cover up, mate.

People generally get into and out of situations way too easily here. And its not difficult. Have Norm hack the overseer's bureau door. Have Maximus shoot a few locks. Have Lucy Goosey talk her way into some situations. Have the doctor just egghead their way through discussions. but hey, I am maybe expecting too much from a video game adaption.

I take immense amusement in how awkward Chet is in fighting situations and with the whole birth/labor thing. He is a big muscular blond white male, and many must have seen him as "THE" protagonist, and then they decided on his cousin, lol. I wonder if this is a middle finger towards conservatives.

[Tyndmyr]

I would like to submit for the list of grievances the fact that the way to overcome a blazing autoturrent is to just slowly hobble as it shoots at you, wholly comfortable in the idea that machine gun fire cannot possibly hit you over an extended period at very close range.

I get that a lot of action movies and shows have had something of a plot armor, but leaning on it that hard is painful.

[Murk]

I saw this, I liked it!
I am strengthened in my belief that most adaptations are better if you're unfamiliar with the source material. I didn't know anything about Fallout beyond Thumbs-Up Vault Dude, Nuka Cola and Dogmeat, and I think the show was improved by my ignorance.

I do agree the answers and twists we get in the last episode are largely unsatisfying, and the setting seemed unrealistically simplistic.
But the show treats death and horror as something to chuckle at, so that matches well with a simplistic setting and plot. Just chuckle at it and move on.

And I liked Lucy! Contrary to some of what I read here, I felt of all the characters she had the most depth and complexity. She definitely isn't a Mary Sue, because she consistently suffers because of her own flaws.

I think the show was a good closing act for my Prime subscription, because they doubled the price and I'm not sticking around for that.

[Mastikator]

Besides "OYG what an amazing show" there's one bit of speculation I have.

Spoiler: The speculation

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Ok so in the final episode we learn THE TRUTH, that vault tech means to drop the bombs. And Barb Howard wants to do it for the safety of her child.

In the first episode we see Cooper and his and her child watch as the nukes drop.

Why, oh why, weren't they in the vault when this happened?

A thing to remember. That their plan to "eliminate all competition" was the very same plan that the Enclave had in Fallout 2.

We also learned in Fallout 2 that the experiments in the vaults was to learn about long term confinement for the enclave's generational ship to another planet.

So here's what I'm wondering. Did Vault Tech actually drop the bombs? Because it seems to me that they collaborated with the US federal government (aka The Enclave as per Fallout 2, 3), and the Enclave got wind of this plan and accelerated it even further. The Enclave caught Vault Tech off-guard by my estimations

[Pax1138]

Besides "OYG what an amazing show" there's one bit of speculation I have.

Spoiler: The speculation

Show

Ok so in the final episode we learn THE TRUTH, that vault tech means to drop the bombs. And Barb Howard wants to do it for the safety of her child.

In the first episode we see Cooper and his and her child watch as the nukes drop.

Why, oh why, weren't they in the vault when this happened?

A thing to remember. That their plan to "eliminate all competition" was the very same plan that the Enclave had in Fallout 2.

We also learned in Fallout 2 that the experiments in the vaults was to learn about long term confinement for the enclave's generational ship to another planet.

So here's what I'm wondering. Did Vault Tech actually drop the bombs? Because it seems to me that they collaborated with the US federal government (aka The Enclave as per Fallout 2, 3), and the Enclave got wind of this plan and accelerated it even further. The Enclave caught Vault Tech off-guard by my estimations

Spoiler

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I would say it goes even deeper. Vault-tec's plan to drop the bombs first *is* the Enclave's plan to drop the plan first, because in a perfect world, there is no distinction between them (at least from the shadow government/Enclave's point of view - individual ambitious folk like Bud in Vault-tec might have a different view). The best case scenario from here, to me, is that both were caught off guard by China launching first. That fits with why the daughter was at the party and half the Vaults we see in the games aren't ready yet. It's also possible that the Enclave knew that China launching early was a possibility (the President was already on the oil rig days early, after all, but they might not have shared that wisdom with Vault-tec's management.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

Sex positive does not mean nudist necessarily. Plus, you really dont want a bunch of hyper nerds on reddit to get footage of your nude body if you value your sanity, honestly.

Like I said, I definitely do not begrudge her wanting to keep clothed. She's done a nude scene in the past, but I feel most actresses are pressured into that earlier and start to opt out when they have the clout to do so (see also: Emilia Clarke). It's a bit of a grungy mark on the film industry, to be honest.

[Rynjin]

I saw this, I liked it!
I am strengthened in my belief that most adaptations are better if you're unfamiliar with the source material. I didn't know anything about Fallout beyond Thumbs-Up Vault Dude, Nuka Cola and Dogmeat, and I think the show was improved by my ignorance.

Generally I agree, since most adaptations kinda suck. But the Fallout show is an interesting example since as a big fan of Fallout most of my major gripes are with the plot and general writing, not the adaptational elements. It's a pretty faithful adaptation of the tone and thematic elements of Fallout (which is the big thing that matters) and has a lot of tasteful fanservice thrown in (like the music) which keeps it feeling like it's supposed to.

The only "adaptation changes" that bother me are really plot points I have issues with other than the "they changed it =(" element.

Spoiler: Specifics

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Namely the nuking of Shady Sands, and teased destruction of New Vegas in the post-credits of the last episode.

So, first the "they changed it" perspective:

The nuking of Shady Sands makes little sense for multiple reasons, the two big ones being "how" and "when". Nukes are kinda hard to come by post-war and most importantly: the Fallout universe has no internet or long-range computer connections. Nukes are traditionally shown as needing to be fired from the actual silo, so how did Hank manage to get his hands on any in the California area, which should be well picked clean?

But that's less important than the "when". Shady Sands being nuked in 2277 makes zero sense with the existence of New Vegas, which takes place in 2281 and has the NCR still ticking.

Now for the more important narrative issues:

Giving Hank, who has been trapped in a Vault most of his life, the power to just casually launch nukes because he's jealous of his wife is frankly kinda dumb. Even from an out-of-lore perspective this **** just doesn't line up. Right up until the timeline reveal I actually thought Shady Sands had been destroyed because they were canonizing the "Nuke the NCR" choice from New Vegas's Lonesome Road DLC. This would have made more sense as the kind of random tragedy that happens in the Wasteland.

But more importantly than that, losing the NCR and especially Shady Sands as a whole is a pretty huge blow to storytelling potential. Combined with New Vegas also being gone, that implies there are now...no major settlements or cities on the entire West Coast. And no major factions, either. The NCR was one of the big ones, and with New Vegas gone that means the Khans, House (and all the casino gangs), and Caesar's Legion are likely all gone as well.

Not having any major factions or groups to interact with is gonna kinda suck in future seasons. And TBH I think having Lucy have the chance to interact with a bustling city would have been a greater impact than just being informed it's just gone now. Setting up a conflict of the NCR vs the Enclave for realsies would have IMO been a much more interesting plot than some random Vault-Tec middle managers being able to go completely rogue and do **** like that with impunity.

It's also, frankly, gonna be pretty said in the games going forward, as it basically canonizes that everything you fought for in Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas was...pointless. Your choices did not matter, some random Vault-Tec goon was more important than you, the player.

Oh and also nothing about Moldaver makes sense, period. That was the other big one. How she's alive, what her actual plan was (if she had one), etc. all seems like it was left on the cutting room floor for some reason.

[Rodin]

Just finished watching, and my thoughts are pretty much the same as everyone else here. Great scene-setting, great general vibe, great moment-to-moment storytelling...but when you finish the fridge logic sets in hard. And there's also a lot of goofy stuff (like the absence of locked doors or guards on secure areas) that a more serious show wouldn't get away with at all.

Spoiler

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The thing about Shady Sands that really gets me is the all-but-stated total destruction of the NCR from having their capitol nuked. That shouldn't be the case. The NCR is having trouble in New Vegas because they have expanded all the way across California to Nevada. The NCR might have broken up into smaller factions, maybe even fallen into city-states. But it wouldn't just be GONE.
Towns like Filly would have fallen under NCR rule, and that rulership would still exist by the time the show takes place. If it didn't, it would be because whoever the local NCR governor was split off and built his own kingdom. Instead it seems to be the sort of random settlement you see in Fallout 3 and 4, like Megaton.

Shady Sands getting nuked doesn't bother me that much. The NCR ceasing to exist does.

Overall review is about an 8 out 10. Turn the brain off and enjoy.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

I echo a lot of your complaints Ryn, but I also feel like that's been Bethesda's fault since Fallout 3. They don't really "get" Fallout, especially the post-post-apocalyptic parts in FO1 and 2 (even BoS) that showed humanity successfully rebuilding. Their writers seem dead set on the world being stuck in a nuclear dump. No big cities, no sanity, no stability. Just a bunch of lunatics, cannibals, and weirdos living in the burning garbage heap of post-war America.

Like, it's been over two hundred years since the nukes fell. In modern comparisons, it's been only 80 years or so since Hiroshima and Nagasaki; both nuked cities that have been rebuilt into thriving metropolises. 30 years after the Chernobyl disaster, the area is recovering and is a now green nature preserve and home to abundant wildlife. Obviously the Fallout world got hit much harder than that, but after two centuries we should at least have organized, quasi-feudal societies and power structures with their own network of cities and villages. New Vegas is the closest we've seen to that, and that wasn't written by Bethesda. Every time Bethesda writes the series, they pull back to ground zero (and send someone out to find a family member).

I reiterate that I liked the series, but I also treated it more as if it was set in 2196 instead of 2296.

Spoiler: Hank

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Given that the flashbacks straight up said that Vault-Tec was prepared to drop nukes themselves and planned for their own people to take over the apocalypse, I wouldn't be surprised if season 2 reveals that Vault-Tec had nukes stashed away and they figure into his goals going forward. He didn't really nuke Shady Sands because of his wife. He nuked them because Vault-Tec's plan assumed nobody would survive on the surface. Shady Sands and the NCR was a huge obstacle to their endgame of having a subservient group of Vault-Tec raised vault dwellers rebuild things. It's possible we'll actually get a real city in Season 2 and the conflict will be stopping Hank from nuking it again.

[BananaPhone]

I binged this last night and on the whole, I was pleasantly surprised. Overall I'd give the series a solid 8/10. They handled it way better than I initially dreaded. The main character, Lucy, is one of my favourite main protagonists in a long time. She's plucky, warm and a likeable person, she takes hard knocks and learns from them and grows. The Ghoul is a garbage person, though he's an excellent character, while Maximus...I dunno. In terms of character, he's very flawed, he has these moments of relatable likeability then ridiculous stupidity.

I do understand hard-core Fallout fan's dislike of the changing of the lore. I sympathise greatly with that (particularly these days). But I'll say that it's fine imaging the TV series and the game series being two different entities, because they have to be.

Some things that didn't make sense (Spoiler alert):

Spoiler

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1) Um, what, Lucy's dad has access to nukes? How? From where? His wife and kid go to Shady Sands and so he nukes it?! Wth? This ridiculous 'get rid of the competition' thing that'll come up at a later point.

2) That commie woman, the leader of the NRC remnant, what a psycho. She wanted to kidnap Lucy's dad. Because she was the leader of Shady Sands, he nukes Shady Sands, so she wants to capture him for trial/revenge, okay, but then she infiltrates the vault with raiders who proceed to massacre innocent people, as well as putting Lucy in direct risk (remember the flashback scenes of this woman smiling and picking up little kid Lucy? Fast forward 20 years and now she's fine having her killed/SA'ed by her raider boy goon). Wth, this made no sense. She could have infiltrated with her NCR troopers in disguise, pull out guns, capture Lucy's Dad and leave with him. Instead they go through that whole charade...I dunno, I don't understand that.

3) Why didn't Lucy's dad recognize this woman the moment she stepped out of the shadows in Episode 1? Why? He knew who she was, they had history together, but he just acts like it's all good in the hood and it's nothing to worry about and goes through with the wedding anyway knowing that no one can be coming from Vault 32 because they're all dead.

4) Um, since when did Ghouls become invincible? Maybe they're just putting in an easter-egg like "health bar" where we see the Ghoul get shot multiple times to no effect...yet later he uses a knife to cut pieces off another ghoul and the flesh seems just as vulnerable there, so why does him getting shot multiple times not effect him? We see just 1 bullet kill living people, so it's not like everyone has 'health bars' or something.

5) I'm no Brotherhood of Steel fan, but they really did the BoS dirty in the last action sequence. The lone ghoul against 4 power-armored units + squires with guns an the ghoul kills them all?! Without a scratch? One bullet kills a guy in power armor cos he "knows where to shoot" - well why didn't he do that earlier in Filly when fighting Maximus in the power suit? The BoS looks like they lost 9 knights in power armor to a couple dozen NCR troopers with machine guns. If powered armor is that useless then why invest all the resources to maintain it in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? Lore-wise the Power Armor was supposed to be a war-changer, and their deployment to Alaska won them the campaign, and they were being used to drive deep into China. But here they go from bullet-proof to ridiculously vulnerable as the writers need, there's no consistency.

6) Maximus and Thaddius.
Dude, wth?

When questioned by Thaddeus about what happened to Titus, Maximus should have said something like "Knight Titus died fighting a mutated bear, can you see the scratches on the suit? *Gesture to scratches* I buried him, put the armor on and now I'm finishing the mission we started."

That's not what he says. Instead he's like "He died..." then looks super suspicious and instead of allaying Thaddeus' fears, he straight up tries killing him.

7) Ummmm, why did everyone in Vault 32 go crazy and kill themselves?

Why?

Because they found out that Vault 31 were the cryogenically frozen managers from Vault-tec pre-war so the natural reaction is to murder and hang themselves?

See when they first showed that Vault 32 was like this, I thought the show makers were bringing in the Vault Experiments. Vault 33 was a control group that got to live nice lives, while Vault 32 had some flaw, and the two vaults were being overseen by a 'master' Vault 31 that was using the data to make their lives better.

Instead we get a mystery around Vault 32 with no answer. And who cleaned up all the corpses and made the place nice and livable again? In ONE night? I was convinced Vault 31 was bigger and had more people in it, but it's just a little brain-bot roomba. You're telling me that thing that was stuck for years, cleaned up Vault 32?

Did the new overseer send people to clean it up? We saw no hint that she did. So what gives, how'd it happen?

8) Speaking of which, what was that coup talk in the vaults?
When Vault 33 is having their little meeting to decide what to do with the raiders and the residence/council are showing unbelievable naivity (which is in character), Norm is like nah waste them all they're irredeemable psychopaths, which is true, we get this moment afterwards of the blonde, pregnant girl secretly approach him and say she agrees with him, and that she hopes when the time comes he'll do the right thing. Cue sinister music.

Later, when Norm is on prisoner lunch duty, he talks to the black girl behind the computer, and she echoes similar concerns.

I thought they were slowly building almost a coup-like situation in the vaults, with the naive vault dwellers vs the the vaulties that are like nah waste the raiders, look what they did to us.

But it...kinda fizzled out, and went nowhere. I mean, it's clear someone poisoned all the raiders and the black girl gets blamed for it (she claims innocence), but if so, what's with the almost conspiratorial vibes to the whole thing?

Speaking of which...

9) That blonde pregnant woman.

This character. I dunno.

She starts off as a good character. She's the archetype vault dweller. She's young, pretty, she's pregnant (as girls that age would be in that situation) she seems like a genuine friend of Lucy's. She seems to playfully put her hubby down, but it didn't seem serious (maybe I'm just reading it wrong). During the raider attack she's seen mourning her husbands death, genuinely in tears over it - she might have made fun of him, but she seemed to genuinely love him, or at least his company. She then goes nuts, takes a fork to the eye, but still keeps fighting and machineguns some raiders down, while pregnant.

Good stuff so far.

Then she secretly approaches Norm (as I mentioned above), and the sinister music plays while she's telling him that the raiders murdered her husband and she'll have his back if he's going to 'do the right thing'. This is good, this shows she's grown: she seems to genuinely mourn for her dead husband, realising what she lost in him and wanting those who took him from her, took her childs father, to get what's coming to them. She's no longer the naive, bubbly blonde we saw in the opening, she's more cynical and hardened now.

Then she turns into an almost caricature of a manipulative housewife. She goes from mourning her husband to now just crapping over his memory again, making fun of him again and shacking up with the gatekeeper. The latter I can understand, she wants to move on, so she secures a tall, good looking husband for herself. But then she becomes this manipulative, bossy nag out of nowhere. Then we're told she's from Vault 31, and it seems as if the show is making her out to be in on the big secret, especially as she gets appointed Overseer of recolonised Vault 32, and she seems to embrace it - and that just opens up a whole 'nother line of questioning. Does she know what happened there? She's from Vault 31, right? She looked like she was low-key telling Norm she'd back him if he chose to murder the raiders sneakily or almost coup the place.

Is she a pre-war Vaultec exec? Maybe the early 20s daughter of an executive? Her character seems inconsistent and...I dunno. It's another point of confusion that I'm not sure what they're going for here.

10) The Vault Experiments.
They HINT at this during the final scenes of the last episode, that the new investors will get clusters of vaults whose conditions they can change to measure what they want. But instead of being a part of the 'vault experiments', which were actually testing people under different circumstances so Vaultec could use that to escape the planet safely and recolonize somewhere else, it's instead this attack on the management class or something?

11) The Management Class and Capitalism.

As a bit of a free market lover it annoys me to no end when people confuse capitalism with corporatism. What the Fallout world has pre-war, is Corporatism. That's where big companies use their influence in the government to pass laws favourable to themselves while hindering their typically smaller competition, and overtime they entrench these further and further, thus helping them secure either monopolies or huge, cartel-like cooperatives over important segments of the economy. This is not a free market where someone with an idea, know-how etc can start a small business and either grow it via good/wise decisions or get it to a stage they're happy at while employing others. This is crony capitalism, and I hate it as much as the next person.

So use that.

The pre-war Fallout US government is broke, and in exchange for contracts and $$ and support from these huge companies, the government is passing more and more regulations and laws that are favourable to them, entrenching their power over every day citizens lives. The actor, Cooper, as someone deep in advertising, can see this and it's disgusts him because the country is losing its way and becoming as authoritarian and controlled by a pyramid-tip at the top, much the way the communist reds are, thus making him open to going along and listening to a group who want to bring that system down - surprise, they're actually communists, and even though he hates them and tries to back out it's too late he's been associated with them and his career is wrecked.

See, that's how easy it is.

Instead we get this...weird, "Time is the biggest weapon", and "Our management will outlast the others", and "Let's start the war ourselves". Now that last part is a theory from the games, as no one knows who shot the bombs first, it could have been Vaultec...but the show is saying that peace threatens Vaultec's bottom line, which is true, but nuclear annihilation also threatens Vaultec's bottom line. Their most profitable course of action is to keep the fear of nuclear war high, so they can sell more vaults while enjoying their parties and the world infrastructure. It doesn't make any sense for Vaultec to want to end the world.

However.

We do see some mysterious, shadowy figure in some elevated, hidden viewing room looking down at the Vaultec secret meeting, the one Cooper's wife is at, and she looks up at this mysterious figure as if receiving some body language go ahead from him. So I think what is going to be revealed is that she's actually a member of the Enclave.

As far as I can tell, we haven't learned how they broke up or what happened with Coopers family.

My guess, is that his wife is actually a member of the Enclave, and she's putting that "We can drop the nukes first" idea out there. She doesn't actually care about Vaultec, she's a member of the Enclave who welcome nuclear Armageddon because it'll finally rid the world of communism for good. They helped create the vaults to create the vault experiments, the data they gather from which was going to be used to help them leave for space and colonize another planet. However, that didn't happen and I'm rambling on fallout lore here, but you get the idea.

But yeah, TL:DR this angle made no sense to me and it was just confusing and convoluted. Vaultec are an evil company, but it would've been so much easier to show them entrenching themselves with the government via Corporatism, and not wanting the war to end because it'll impact their bottom line. However, Coopers wife (Barb I think her name is) is a secret member of the Enclave and pushes the idea of dropping the bombs first. That would make more sense to me.

Honorable Mention: "Would you like to have sex?"

The Vaults are supposed to be microcosms of 1950s Americana. Some things can get changed around for the circumstances, but under none of those circumstances do I envision a young woman from that culture willy-nilly offering sex to someone she's only known for a couple of days. Especially not one the show has been portraying as rather principled and suffering for those principles but mostly sticking by them. Her jumping the raider as soon as she's married makes sense and is fine. But this is some alien-pretending-to-be-a-human level of out of character, to me at least.

They kinda hint at this in the opening scenes where she's telling the committee that her "reproductive organs are in working order" or something cringe, but even that felt out of place.

It felt even weirder hearing Maximus not know what sex was, referring to erections as pimples or something outlandish. You're telling me all those young people training to be soldiers, in the barracks together, all those hormones and testosterone raging and no one knows what sex is? Gtfo here, for real, no, don't buy it.

I could go on, but I think that's enough.

Overall, like I said, 8/10. I was pleasantly surprised, and I hope Season 2 is even better.

[Rynjin]

Spoilered responses to two of your things:

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4 and 5.) Ghouls are actually in-lore pretty damn tough to kill, it's just poorly represented in the games. Though that doesn't excuse the sheer incompetence displayed by everybody Coop fights or how nerfed Power Armor is.

10.) Yes, she's from Vault 31, as confirmed in her convo with Norm. Everyone from Vault 31 is a Vault-Tec executive.

[BananaPhone]

Spoilered thoughts:

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I dunno, that tough? We see feral ghouls go down to one or two shots.

Could be. Could be the daughter of one, as she looks on the young side. But still, I thought her minor character arc was a good one until it took a 180 and she became like a caricature. I hope they develop/explain it better in Season 2.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

Spoilered thoughts:

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I dunno, that tough? We see feral ghouls go down to one or two shots.

Could be. Could be the daughter of one, as she looks on the young side. But still, I thought her minor character arc was a good one until it took a 180 and she became like a caricature. I hope they develop/explain it better in Season 2.

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Her name is on the list of unfrozen execs in the Vault 31 terminal. She's the same as Hank and Betty. A cryo-frozen pre-war VaultTec exec.

Also, re: Maximus lying. Dude's experiencing the first taste of freedom he's had in a long time and the opportunity to be a knight like he always wanted. If he radios back to the Brotherhood and tells them what happened to Titus, they show up, repossess the armor, and he's back to shoveling latrines and getting beaten. Having his knight die on his first outing means he's most likely never getting squired ever again, too, if not outright executed since he has two suspicious incidents linked to him now. Max is dumb, but his actions make sense viewed through the lens of his experiences. He tells Thaddeus believing they'd bonded enough to trust him, but then immediately regrets it because Thaddeus indicates he's going to do exactly what the rest of the Brotherhood would do.

About Hank, he didn't nuke Shady Sands just because of his wife. He nuked it because there weren't supposed to be any thriving settlements on the surface to oppose Vault-Tec's society. His wife running there just exposed it to him. As for where he got nukes, Vault-Tec is implied to have enough to cause the war in the first place, so not out of the question that they'd have some stashed after the end.

[BananaPhone]

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Her name is on the list of unfrozen execs in the Vault 31 terminal. She's the same as Hank and Betty. A cryo-frozen pre-war VaultTec exec.

Also, re: Maximus lying. Dude's experiencing the first taste of freedom he's had in a long time and the opportunity to be a knight like he always wanted. If he radios back to the Brotherhood and tells them what happened to Titus, they show up, repossess the armor, and he's back to shoveling latrines and getting beaten. Having his knight die on his first outing means he's most likely never getting squired ever again, too, if not outright executed since he has two suspicious incidents linked to him now. Max is dumb, but his actions make sense viewed through the lens of his experiences. He tells Thaddeus believing they'd bonded enough to trust him, but then immediately regrets it because Thaddeus indicates he's going to do exactly what the rest of the Brotherhood would do.

About Hank, he didn't nuke Shady Sands just because of his wife. He nuked it because there weren't supposed to be any thriving settlements on the surface to oppose Vault-Tec's society. His wife running there just exposed it to him. As for where he got nukes, Vault-Tec is implied to have enough to cause the war in the first place, so not out of the question that they'd have some stashed after the end.

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Ah, I must have missed the passing detail of her name in the records (though I'd figured they'd be there cos she came from there). Still she seems pretty young for an exec. Ah well, maybe. Still, I'll stick with what I said that she had an interesting character arc that did a sudden 180 that I thought kinda ruined it.

I don't agree about that. It's clear Thaddeus is worried about the consequences, and all Max had to do to allay his fears was assure him they'll be fine if they get the mission done and bring the head back (which is pretty much true). Instead his first port of call is looking super shady and murder, especially after they'd just been bonding so much. Seems kinda out there if ya ask me.

That's a pretty weak reasoning though, to me. Hank is supposed to be a smart guy (he apparently knows about New Vegas, as he flees there at the end of the eighth episode - so why not nuke there too?), he must surely be able to deduce there's going to be more settlements other than Shady Sands. To me this removal of the New California Republic and reducing them to just a weird little cult in a vault was one of the least pay-off divergence from the source material, and on weak grounds, in my opinion.

Though where is it implied that Vaul-tec has nukes? As I mentioned before, I think their reasons for starting the nuclear exchange are really convoluted and self-defeating, at least as it is presented in the show.

[Maelstrom]

A response to

...questions...

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2) That commie woman, the leader of the NRC remnant, what a psycho. She wanted to kidnap Lucy's dad. Because she was the leader of Shady Sands, he nukes Shady Sands, so she wants to capture him for trial/revenge, okay, but then she infiltrates the vault with raiders who proceed to massacre innocent people, as well as putting Lucy in direct risk (remember the flashback scenes of this woman smiling and picking up little kid Lucy? Fast forward 20 years and now she's fine having her killed/SA'ed by her raider boy goon). Wth, this made no sense. She could have infiltrated with her NCR troopers in disguise, pull out guns, capture Lucy's Dad and leave with him. Instead they go through that whole charade...I dunno, I don't understand that.

Yeah, she's a bit of a psycho (hopefully we'll get more exposition in season 2 as to why) but she kidnapped Hank for the code to open the encryption for her cold fusion research, plain and simple.

3) Why didn't Lucy's dad recognize this woman the moment she stepped out of the shadows in Episode 1? Why? He knew who she was, they had history together, but he just acts like it's all good in the hood and it's nothing to worry about and goes through with the wedding anyway knowing that no one can be coming from Vault 32 because they're all dead.

Well, to be fair, she's aged quite a bit, and given the background we've seen, we do not see much interaction between Hank and her...but fair enough.

6) Maximus and Thaddius.
Dude, wth?

When questioned by Thaddeus about what happened to Titus, Maximus should have said something like "Knight Titus died fighting a mutated bear, can you see the scratches on the suit? *Gesture to scratches* I buried him, put the armor on and now I'm finishing the mission we started."

That's not what he says. Instead he's like "He died..." then looks super suspicious and instead of allaying Thaddeus' fears, he straight up tries killing him.

Yeah, Maximus is definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed...

7) Ummmm, why did everyone in Vault 32 go crazy and kill themselves?

Why?

Because they found out that Vault 31 were the cryogenically frozen managers from Vault-tec pre-war so the natural reaction is to murder and hang themselves?

See when they first showed that Vault 32 was like this, I thought the show makers were bringing in the Vault Experiments. Vault 33 was a control group that got to live nice lives, while Vault 32 had some flaw, and the two vaults were being overseen by a 'master' Vault 31 that was using the data to make their lives better.

Instead we get a mystery around Vault 32 with no answer. And who cleaned up all the corpses and made the place nice and livable again? In ONE night? I was convinced Vault 31 was bigger and had more people in it, but it's just a little brain-bot roomba. You're telling me that thing that was stuck for years, cleaned up Vault 32?

Did the new overseer send people to clean it up? We saw no hint that she did. So what gives, how'd it happen?

I'm gonna just chalk this up to limits on what they could include in this season. Were there any hints dropped, beside the "everyone went mad"? Not that I caught, but would have been nice to have one or two in there to let the audience know that this is an unclosed thread and to be answered in the future (which, I'm sure, still will be)

[Rodin]

Spoilered thoughts:

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I dunno, that tough? We see feral ghouls go down to one or two shots.

Could be. Could be the daughter of one, as she looks on the young side. But still, I thought her minor character arc was a good one until it took a 180 and she became like a caricature. I hope they develop/explain it better in Season 2.

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I'm pretty sure the feral ghouls we see go down are shot in the head. So the show is treating them like zombies, which works for me. They're not human, they ignore pain, but if you take a limb off they're seriously inconvenienced and if you destroy the brain its game over.