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2024-04-13, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I mean this plan, for fighting his father. While I'm not exactly willing to put money on this, I do have an idea that could make sense from both a tactical and an... Elanish perspective.
Recruit Sabine, appealing to her desire for revenge. Have her disguise herself as Amun-Zora. Have her consent to the marriage, while the resistance prepares an ambush for the wedding night. As soon as Sabine shows who she really is, the real Amun-Zora crashes through the window.
Sure, it'd catch Tarquin in a vulnerable position (ish - I'm sure he's got some precautions against treacherous brides, though the succubus angle might be a new one). More importantly, a humiliating death at the hands of a woman he's been lusting after would recast him as a more disposable kind of villain. In Star Wars terms, he's not Darth Vader or the Emperor -he's Jabba the Hutt.
Plus, callback.
What do you think? Anyone got a better idea?
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2024-04-13, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Play Hamlet.
By which I mean, write screenplays which allude to the machinations of the Vector Legion controlling the empires.
Not only can the perpetrators evade capture, but it is the singular most /Bardish/ thing to do.
"Rub Rub Rub my Father's face, in my uselessness."
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2024-04-14, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I feel like it's too soon for a "might have been". I think there's going to be a sequel set in the Western Continent, and either Elan's super secret plan is revealed as part of the cliffhanger, or Rich is going to reveal it in the sequel itself.
I think this because:
- Roy says so, and Elan backs him up. I think Rich will reveal that the line about "This is not a thing that's going to happen" refers to titling it "Order Stickier."
- There is a high concentration of unfinished plots in the Western Continent, including the super secret plan, that make the story a nightmare to finish in the few hundred pages we have left, given that we're at the North Pole
- Rich introduced a complicated plot involving the Vector Legion, lizardfolk, and either dinosaurs or dragons in the May 2020 calendar page that definitely does not fit in the pages we have left.
No! TT_TT But I also have a theory that I'm willing to bet on that the IFCC is trying to create a mini-snarl by provoking conflict between the gods, and as an extension of that theory that I'm not willing to bet on, I think the ending would be so much easier to write if they got their mini-snarl and escaped, rather than Rich having to cram in confronting and defeating it while the rest of the plot is going on. In that case, it's going to be in the sequel.
It can't have anything to do with Elan's secret plan because there's no way Elan could've known, but maybe someone will be inspired by the idea. One way or another.TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-04-14, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
The plan with Sabine won‘t work, simply because Tarquin has a Ring of True Seeing. I like the Hamlet plan, though it will be difficult to protect the players.
I think if we get another story on the western continent - and that‘s a big if - it will be a prequel, not a sequel. I seem to remember Rich saying that he will do something different when the OotS story is done.Ares - Music and sounds system for roleplaying
Avatar by Rich Burlew.
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2024-04-14, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
What if it doesn't star the Order of the Stick? That was my first guess, before I remembered the Order Stickier comment.
A party is mostly filled out: Amun-Zora, Enor, Gannji, Ian, Geoff, and maybe Sabine for color, as someone who really hates Tarquin.
It's not a balanced party like Rich usually presents so I'm not confident.
Would that count as something different? It's at least a better take on, "This is not a thing that's going to happen."Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2024-04-14 at 01:19 PM.
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-04-14, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
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- Cambridge, UK
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I highly doubt we'll get a sequel, and if we do it's almost certainly not going to be about Tarquin - if only because that would undercut the whole deal with Tarquin not being the main villain. I expect we'll just get a brief reference to the fact that he got defeated off-screen - that's how you really defeat Tarquin, as anything involving a big thing to take him down ultimately means he wins. So I think "might have been" isn't so unreasonable here.
I don't think a throwaway gag by Elan is particularly compelling evidence that an actual sequel is really on the way. Especially since just focusing on other characters doesn't really feel like the Giant doing something different.
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2024-04-15, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Sometimes, a picture is just a picture.
I seem to remember that also.
Let's see:
Star Wars prequels? Not great.
Star Trek prequels? Just plain bad.
Can someone name a prequel movie that was good?
While Rich has his own muse and style, and is thus not by default doomed to failure if he chose to do a prequel (I found SoD tepid at best) I got the feeling when I read the above mentioned comment that his next creative effort would not have to do with the OotSverse.
(Honestly, I think Rich could write a decent screenplay ...)Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2024-04-15 at 12:45 PM.
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Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2024-04-15, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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2024-04-15, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I'm skeptical that Elan's plan is for Tarquin to get beaten off screen (even if that's how the Giant handles it). Tarquin is intelligent, resourceful, narratively savvy, and determined. If Elan won't bring the climax to him, he will bring the climax to Elan. Tarquin can only be beaten off screen as a canonical strategy if he allows it.
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2024-04-15, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I don't think Elan's plan is likely to include Sabine. I think it's possible Sabine, entirely independently, takes Tarquin out of the picture as the 'pleasure' she's mixing into her business for the fiends, but if that doesn't happen I would assume whatever Elan's plan is goes off without a hitch.
I'd agree that the plan is likely taking him down offscreen. I could also see it potentially involving treating one of the other Vector Legionaries as the real big bad of the plotline and reducing Tarquin to a mere lieutenant to promote infighting within the group and turn Tarquin's narrative role from "Overlord' to "Starscream"
Tarquin didn't exactly allow himself to be thrown off an airship. Tarquin gets caught up in his preconceptions of what the narrative should be that he abandons genre-savvy in favour of trying to bend the narrative around himself as the most important character, which is an exploitable weakness.
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2024-04-15, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I think it's possible Sabine would join up with Amon-Zora. I doubt Elan's plan takes that into account, though.
Tarquin didn't exactly allow himself to be thrown off an airship. Tarquin gets caught up in his preconceptions of what the narrative should be that he abandons genre-savvy in favour of trying to bend the narrative around himself as the most important character, which is an exploitable weakness.Assistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
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2024-04-15, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2024-04-15, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-15, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2024-04-16, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
OtOoPC and SoD are pretty early works. Especially "Origin of PCs", that was still pretty deep in that "Pop culture reference and D&D jokes" style that didn't age so well.
But I think the 3 prequel stories (Spoiler Alert, Peer Pressure and How the Paladin Got His Scar) in Good Deed Gone Unpunished are among Rich's best work. Really solid stories about "secondary" characters, some of which had already met a grisly fate in the main webcomic.
They were about characters Rich actually likes, though, and that love can be felt throughout the stories' emotional beats. I don't know if a prequel about another party of bad guys would inspire the same kind of work.Last edited by Kardwill; 2024-04-16 at 04:59 AM.
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2024-04-16, 05:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
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2024-04-16, 05:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Honestly if we ever do see what Elan’s plan was I imagine it’ll be in something like a GDGU-esque side book for the Linear Guild and the Vector Legion (and maybe one or two other Western Continent characters).
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2024-04-16, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I think this is the kind of thing where you have to separate your own personal opinion from the broader reception. SoD is a fan favourite, long held by many as the best OotS material out there. While of course you don't have to like it yourself, it's kinda weird to dismiss it entirely and suggest it wouldn't count as a good prequel based solely on your own subjective opinion
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2024-04-16, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
The Godfather II called.
Rogue One and Red Dragon were good.
Re: screenplays - I would be very surprised if he could. Not because of anything other than it being such a decidedly different medium. Serial webcomic probably leans more towards screenplay than novel prose, but I think they are just two distinct skillsets. High jump and jump shooting both involve jumping, but no reason to think Fosbury could rain threes or Steph could clear 7'.
That's why, I think, Martin was valuable in helping HBO's GoT but King books virtually never make great films despite being great writing. One has years of experience working with TV and film, the other doesn't.
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2024-04-16, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Not sure that I would technically call Godfather II a prequel given its split story. It sure had elements, but the story still moved forward in time and I think the main part of the story was watching Al Pacino descend into full on mobsterism (I made up a word!)
The second Indiana Jones movie is often considered a prequel because it took place temporally before Raiders of the Lost Ark. Now, whether you think that movie is "good" is, of course, another issue. I wouldn't consider it bad per se, but it sure didn't age well.This space for rent.
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2024-04-16, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2024-04-16, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
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2024-04-16, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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2024-04-16, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-04-16, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Normally, prequels are offered as a means of explaining how we got to where we were in the main story, rather than, say, a completely independent story that really adds no explanation and could just as easily happen after as before, which is how I rank Temple of Doom. There is nothing in that movie that really does anything to add to Raiders or, for that matter, the one after Temple of Doom that I have mostly stricken from my memory. I was browsing definitions and found this sentence in one of them, which I kinda like: "A prequel is a work that forms part of a backstory to the preceding work."
Admittedly, I haven't watched Temple of Doom in, well, probably longer than many people on these forums have been alive (gah, I'm old), but I did not feel that it lent anything to the ongoing story and was, in actuality, a complete one-off. Nothing added to the lore, no questions answered, no neato explanations of anything depicted in Raiders, etc. So that was my thought process.
And, yes, temporally.This space for rent.
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2024-04-16, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Sabine and the IFCC aren't working with Tarquin. I think it's very likely that Sabine kills Tarquin at some point, but for the "deny Tarquin his place as the big bad of the vector legion" plan it'd be one of his fellow conspirators. I was thinking Shoulderpads Guy, he's got commander vibes and I think it's a fun idea if in-universe Tarquin being overshadowed in memory by someone who wasn't even important enough to the story we saw to have a name, but Laurin and Miron would both probably work. Malack would have too, but he's sadly double deceased which makes him less viable.
This is true of all three Indiana Jones movies, they're very episodic and can be watched in functionally any order with no changes, but if we're not counting Doom as a prequel we shouldn't count Crusade as a sequel. I can see a logic to that, but it's not how the words are conventionally used.Last edited by Errorname; 2024-04-16 at 05:44 PM.
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2024-04-16, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I have a very different take away: That even after Elan and co escaped on an airship, he found a way to continue the scene within seconds. Yes, they then thwarted him on the airship and got away, but that happened while he was sharing center stage with Elan, and not while he was dueling with a secondary (or dare I say tertiary) character. He employed everything at his disposal to get front and center, and unless he lacks the means to do it again (in which case, he's already lost), he'll do it again before he lets something takes him down off-screen.
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2024-04-16, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-16, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
Last edited by Yendor; 2024-04-16 at 07:47 PM.
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2024-04-16, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So what might have been Elan's super secret plan?
I think this analysis misses that Tarquin wasn't meant to be a nobody, he was meant to be an early boss, a B-list villain long before the fight against the actual big bad in the finale, a Kubota or a Vamp Durkon rather than a Xykon. And that's exactly what he got - and what he tried so hard to avoid. Of course the position still comes with a fair bit of attention and spotlight.
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