I took resil: wisdom on my barb

[Skrum]

And it feels terrible >:(

He was 18 str 8 wis, giving him a -1 wisdom save
After failing a few too many wisdom saves against dominate, I respec'd him to

16 str 10 wis with resil: wisdom feat. And I grabbed a stone of good luck for another +1 all saves. He's now rocking a respectable +5 wisdom saves.

How'd the very first game go? Well he missed twice, by 1. One of those attacks was against a boss, who's death ward had just triggered. Me missing let him escape. I also failed to kill another enemy....by 1.

Was this a statistical outlier? Yah, sure. But still. The -2 str was *noticable.* Taking a hit to a main stat is awful. I'm a barb! I use str literally every turn. The fact that my only option to get a half way decent wisdom save is to reduce my main stat is bu@$_&#+.

Seriously considering switching back.

/End rant

[Dr.Samurai]

In before the "But this is how the game is designed, if you don't like this, then get paralyzed/stunned/dominated or play a different game/class." comments.

[KorvinStarmast]

Seriously considering switching back.

/End rant

Low sample size.
Your decision to go Res Wis was an Excellent one.
Why do I say that?
My Rune Knight began with 11 Wis. +0. I took the feat. +1, and then prof bonus +2 initially.
I am now level 15 and I am +6.
I have frequently made Wis saves that I'd have otherwise missed. And we have to make a lot of them.
(And ask one of your caster friends to maybe use Intellect Fortress: it gives you advantage. It is a team game).

I occasionally have to rely on the Indomitable Fighter feature to re roll a save, and I was tempted to later take the Lucky feat. Have not yet.

Hang in there. It will pay off.

And you are still going to miss a few wisdom saves. That's the nature of how saving throws versus spells work. My warlock rolled a 1 on a Charisma save the other day: he's proficient and has a +4 mod. Yes, it sucked, but that's how the game works.

[Skrum]

Yeah I mean I'm gonna stick it out, for at least a little while. Give it a chance to make me look smart. This game was definitely (hopefully lol) an outlier.

It's kind of a vibe thing, yah know? I'm a 10th level character with 16 in my main stat. Other characters almost universally have at least 18. Many have 20. It's a bad feeling.

Fortunately we do have solid access to magic items; I'm gonna invest in a +2 weapon, maybe even +3 if I get the gold. That will offset my crummy str.

[KorvinStarmast]

Fortunately we do have solid access to magic items; I'm gonna invest in a +2 weapon, maybe even +3 if I get the gold. That will offset my crummy str.

Good plan.

[JellyPooga]

Frankly, having a 20 in your main stat at level 10 probably means that you're somewhat a one-dimensional character; no feats (unless Variant Human), dip multiclass (if any) and only interested in the statistically most beneficial character build. For me, personally, that's kind of boring because success alone isn't very interesting. It's not actually very interesting at all. Failure and specifically how one overcomes it is far more engaging as a narrative conceit.

Giving your Barbarian a better Wisdom is far more interesting than giving them more Strength. Are they still a "Strong Character^TM? Yeah, absolutely. Are they now also able to resist mind-control once in a while instead of being the complete tool of anyone that happens to cast Charm Person on them? Also yes. Better at Perception (the most common skill check called for in the game), Insight, Medicine and even at petting the goodest bois? Even better. Yeah, if you want my opinion, far better to be built broad than specialised, even when the game technically rewards the latter; it's more fun and you get to engage with more of the game. Being good at one thing means engaging with only that one thing. Being good at many things means you get to actually play the game more because very few games involve only a single, narrow field of play and even those that do (e.g. arena games that focus solely on combat) would get pretty boring if all you did was hit things with a stick, no matter how good you are at it.

[lall]

My sorcerer takes it. Feels sort of irresponsible not to. He would take it again for INT saves if he could. Having said that, he pushes his CHA to 20 first.

[Theodoxus]

Was your only respec option Str? Otherwise seems odd. -2 Int or Cha would have been the better trade. Or, probably better -1 to each... or heck, even -1 to Con and Dex...

[GeneralVryth]

Fortunately we do have solid access to magic items; I'm gonna invest in a +2 weapon, maybe even +3 if I get the gold. That will offset my crummy str.

Seems like you should be looking for Belt of Giant's Strength instead of a +3 weapon.

[CTurbo]

By level 10 Belts of Giant Strength shouldn't be that hard to come by. The Hill Giant one which sets Str to 21 is "just" Rare. The Stone and Frost ones are Very Rare.

[Psyren]

Hang in there. It will pay off.

^ That, especially if your DM is Wis-happy. You just had bad luck OP.

Think of it this way, you'd have failed those same saves without Resilient, except you wouldn't be anywhere near success. Missing by 1 might feel terrible, but succeeding by 1 will make you feel awesome.

[Dork_Forge]

I'm confused, what's your build here? You're a 10th level character and it sounds like you switched out an ASI +2 Str for the Res:Wis, but what's your race, other ASI and subclass?

Personally, I wouldn't have respecced like this, but I also think Res:Wis is vastly overrated as a DM that likes to smack my Barbarian's Wisdom save around. It's a team game, no character needs to be an unbreakable monolith.

[Kurald Galain]

He was 18 str 8 wis, giving him a -1 wisdom save
After failing a few too many wisdom saves against dominate, I respec'd him to

16 str 10 wis with resil: wisdom feat.

Okay, so you actually did two things.

One, you took the Resilient feat. This is a good idea.
Two, you lowered your strength to increase your wisdom. This is what feels terrible (AND note that the first step had a MUCH greater impact on your wisdom save!)

The -2 str was *noticable.* Taking a hit to a main stat is awful. I'm a barb! I use str literally every turn.

Yep. So statistically speaking, keep the feat AND restore your strength.

[Skrum]

One feat is Infernal Constitution, and I get enough milage out of it that I don't feel I can change it without significantly impacting the build and his narrative. So I only have 1 ASI to play with.

Belt of Giant Str and other stat boosting items are banned. We have the ability to make customized items, but most of the abilities are enhancement-type bonuses. I do plan on grabbing +2 to wisdom saves eventually. Crafting and adding to items is very expensive, taking weeks or months of IRL time to accumulate the gold.

[Dork_Forge]

Okay, so you actually did two things.

One, you took the Resilient feat. This is a good idea.
Two, you lowered your strength to increase your wisdom. This is what feels terrible (AND note that the first step had a MUCH greater impact on your wisdom save!)


Yep. So statistically speaking, keep the feat AND restore your strength.

Resilient is a half feat, their Str lowered because they turned a +2 Str into Res:Wis, which increased their Wis as well as giving the save prof.

[Theodoxus]

Skrum, can you describe the process of your respec? Because 18 Str, 8 Wis to 16 Str 10 Wis, plus Res: Wis, would make it 11 Wis... which isn't what you stated, and it's confusing everyone.

[Kurald Galain]

Resilient is a half feat, their Str lowered because they turned a +2 Str into Res:Wis,

I don't think that's what OP meant, because (a) it doesn't go from 18 str / 8 wis to 16 str / 10 wis, and (b) OP mentions a respec and that's not a respec.

[Keravath]

I'll agree with everyone else that Resilient wisdom is the way to go, especially in a game where the DM likes to use wisdom saves. One of the major weaknesses of a barbarian (and fighters) is wisdom saves - especially since the +1 difference in strength is usually unnoticeable next to reckless attack. If you aren't regularly using reckless attack that would be another question :)

You'll also likely want to pick up Great Weapon Master at some point since it synergizes really well with reckless attack as well.

[Skrum]

Skrum, can you describe the process of your respec? Because 18 Str, 8 Wis to 16 Str 10 Wis, plus Res: Wis, would make it 11 Wis... which isn't what you stated, and it's confusing everyone.

Word!

Tiefling Barb 6 Rogue 4
point buy

original stats
14 14 14 9 8 13
Racial: +2 str +1 con
Feats: Infernal Constitution and ASI +2 str
final: 18 14 16 9 8 13

Respec (table rules; we can change any and all aspects of a character. Nothing in particular is prevented from being changed as long as the narrative of it isn't too tortured and the player isn't abusing it. People have changed their classes before...my change was really just the ASI)

new stats
14 14 14 8 9 13
Racial: +2 str +1 con
Feats: Infernal Constitution and Resil: Wisdom
final: 16 14 16 8 10 13

-----------------

Is this perfectly optimal? No. I get that this is spreading him out, but - there's a narrative reason that he has 13 Cha. And the thing is, what am I really going to do with those points? Keep the 18 str and make his wisdom save +1 instead of -1? Saving throw DCs are routinely 18-20. I'd rather have the Cha and have something to do besides athletics and stealth.

[animewatcha]

Interestly, I tried to google for periapt of wisdom. I figured it would set the ability score to 16 or something. Oddly enough, 5e does NOT have an official necklace like it directly. Third party has them increase Wisdom by +2 (able to go beyond 20). So could you get your DM to 'allow' you to find such a necklace. Wisdom of 16 while attuned shouldn't be too OP, right?

[Skrum]

Interestly, I tried to google for periapt of wisdom. I figured it would set the ability score to 16 or something. Oddly enough, 5e does NOT have an official necklace like it directly. Third party has them increase Wisdom by +2 (able to go beyond 20). So could you get your DM to 'allow' you to find such a necklace. Wisdom of 16 while attuned shouldn't be too OP, right?

0% chance. There's a ban on items deemed "workaround." Like, replacing the need to meet certain criteria. For instance, mithril was just banned as it removes the str requirement for heavy armor. Stat-setting (and stat-boosting) items are exactly what the GMs don't want.

They do, admittedly, make the topic of respec's awkward. Wow I just found this Belt of Giant Str, I'm gonna respec and dump my str...

[Kane0]

Well Skrum you do operate in a higher-op environment, not having a maxxed attack stat certainly would be felt.
Any allies that can help you with mental saves? Bard in the party? Protection from Evil?

[Amnestic]

Interestly, I tried to google for periapt of wisdom. I figured it would set the ability score to 16 or something. Oddly enough, 5e does NOT have an official necklace like it directly.

Yeah there's Strength (anywhere between 19 and 29 depending on item), Constitution (19) and Intelligence (19) but nothing for Dex, Wis, or Cha, at least in official works. I'm not really clear why. Gloves of Dexterity, Periapt of Wisdom, and Cloak of Charisma were all things in the past, and I can't really argue that Cha is a 'more' valuable stat to have than Con is generally.

There are Ioun stones that boost each stat by +2, to a maximum of 20, though they're pricy on the attunement cost. That's another thread's discussion though...

[Psyren]

Well Skrum you do operate in a higher-op environment, not having a maxxed attack stat certainly would be felt.

Frankly, the fact that they only failed by 1 proves to me that the feat is working.

[Witty Username]

Interestly, I tried to google for periapt of wisdom. I figured it would set the ability score to 16 or something. Oddly enough, 5e does NOT have an official necklace like it directly. Third party has them increase Wisdom by +2 (able to go beyond 20). So could you get your DM to 'allow' you to find such a necklace. Wisdom of 16 while attuned shouldn't be too OP, right?

If I remember right, only headband of intellect and belt of giant's strength/Guantlets of Ogre power have proper rules in 5e.
5e is much more limited in stat boosting items.

[Skrum]

Frankly, the fact that they only failed by 1 proves to me that the feat is working.

What do you mean by that?

[Psyren]

What do you mean by that?

Your campaign is higher difficulty, i.e. higher DCs. That you only failed by one means the feat would have resulted in a success in a less difficult campaign.

[Dork_Forge]

Your campaign is higher difficulty, i.e. higher DCs. That you only failed by one means the feat would have resulted in a success in a less difficult campaign.

The missing by 1 was about the attack they made, not passing a Wis save DC. OP had two examples from their first game where the -1 to Str was noticeable, and that was their issue not that their new Wis save modifier wasn't high enough.

The conflict more seemed to be 'this is a statistical outlier but it sucked and whilst it's only a +1 to Str missing, Str is a stat I'll use as a Barbarian every turn, where as Wis saves are less frequent and out of my control anyway.'

[Kane0]

There is a constitution amulet

[Schwann145]

Barbarians are supposed to fail Wisdom saves and be dangerous for their own party. This is part of the excitement of playing Barbs. :V

Real talk though, you can either be well-rounded (and not get those 18s and 20s) or you can be focused and dump other important stats. Unless you either roll very lucky for stats, or your DM is providing higher than normal, then you'll have to deal with the consequences of one or the other.
(Sympathies, though; Barbarian in 5e is a painful class that needed better design before release.)