A thread of loose ends

[BloodSquirrel]

Except, you know, the two prophecies saying that Durkon would return home posthumously / bringing death and destruction which were introduced early on. There's also just obvious dramatic value in going to the hometown of one of your main characters that doesn't exist for an fortress in the middle of nowhere with nothing of value inside it.

Also, there's a big difference between "Characters who are starting a new story arc will go to a place they haven't been before" and "The climax of a story will suddenly shift location to a place with no obvious dramatic significance." Usually, when the Oots goes to a place as part of an adventure, they finish the adventure there before leaving. But I doubt that anyone would have argued it was unlikely for the Order to go to anywhere in particular as part of a side adventure between gates.

The better analogy here would be "Before it turned out that all of Girard's descendants were dead there was no plot-relevant reason to move the climax of the story arc to the Empire of Tears... and so they didn't."

[Metastachydium]

Sure. But if we extend even that much of "on the cusp of victory" to Xykon, it would be as they are about to complete the ritual on the Gate, which isn't at The Astral Fortress, so it still fails there regardless. If Xykon retreats to the Astral Fortress (which i maintain he has zero reason to do, unless his phylactery is destroyed and he is aware of this and he is about to be destroyed and still has enough high level spells to run, in which case it's still nigh-impossible for anyone else to follow him), then he is clearly not on the cusp of victory nor in his strongest position. In fact, it would be quite far from the cusp of victory.

Sure. It's also, incidentally, a good thing that we have been in agreement as far as that is concerned from the get-go.

Yeah. It feels like the only thing that might induce an epiphany in Redcloak, having whatever future civilization the goblins end up building not be defined as a slave state founded on the ruins of a mostly noble city they destroyed is probably a necessary thing for the ending, and having Redcloak build his entire future in the shadow of a growing rift that threatens to destroy everything feels like too big of a set-up to not fire.

However it happens I hope Jirix is up to the task of evacuating the city because boy, if he doesn't a lot of people are going to be annihilated.

Well. As someone who's very uncomfortable at a number of levels with the current state of affairs as regards the Azurite/Goblinoid conflict, despite rooting for Project Gobbotopia to succeed in a comparable number of ways, I must concede that point has a punch to it.

[Peelee]

Sure. It's also, incidentally, a good thing that we have been in agreement as far as that is concerned from the get-go.

Well, i do rarely have reason to take issue with most vegetation i see.

[MartianInvader]

Actually, i have a very simple rebuttal on how it is exceedingly unlikely that even that could happen.

Namely, is there any reason to think that Xykon hasn't Cloistered the Astral Fortress?

Well, if Cloistering the fortress prevents Xykon from getting there, that would be a good reason to think he didn't do it, right?

And if it *doesn't* prevent him from getting there (like, he can port to a quarter mile away and fly in), then it doesn't really stop the scenario from happening, right?

[Peelee]

Well, if Cloistering the fortress prevents Xykon from getting there, that would be a good reason to think he didn't do it, right?

It prevents Xykon (and everyone else) from getting there though the vast majority of magical means. Nothing indicates it would prevent his soul from going back to the phylactery if his body was destroyed. So there's every reason to believe he did it and no reason to believe he didn't.

And if it *doesn't* prevent him from getting there (like, he can port to a quarter mile away and fly in), then it doesn't really stop the scenario from happening, right?

Going by how he described the fortress, i highly doubt anyone, even Xykon, can just "fly in". And even if he could, again, how would anyone follow him? Teleport is an escape spell, and nobody has ever demonstrated any ability to follow a teleporter in the strip to date.

And, again, no reason for Xykon to go there even if he thinks he is about to he defeated and wants to run somewhere else when he can go to any random spot anywhere to recuperate just as well, since, again, teleport is a "get out of danger free" card.

[No good @ names]

Well. As someone who's very uncomfortable at a number of levels with the current state of affairs as regards the Azurite/Goblinoid conflict, despite rooting for Project Gobbotopia to succeed in a comparable number of ways, I must concede that point has a punch to it.

Yes good point.


Redcloak’s arc is unlikely to be resolved by anything other than a major dolphin attack on the bridge. Chomp chomp chomp!

2. it's really just a bunch of background characters (albeit of the divine sort) clearing up the mess in their stead.

Yep, I agree. I don’t think Rich is going to end decades of work with a near literal dei ex machina.

My impression on the story and writing is that Rich likes one-a-one fights, especially when it involves Xykon and Roy.

As others have said, there’s no reason why Roy and Xykon can’t have a climatic duel at Kragor’s (Serini’s?) Gate, and no narrative reason for it to be at the Astral Fortress. Any other reason for anywhere other than the Gate is pretty weak, it could only really serve to seperate Roy from the rest of the Order, and Rich could achieve that somehow at Kragor’s Gate.

Will Roy fight Xykon one on one at some point? Probably, otherwise the Spell Splinter will be wasted foreshadowing and Elan will cry. And if he didn’t use it Roy will not be able to rub it in Eugene’s face that a fighter stopped epic level magic.

[Kish]

Teleport is an escape spell, and nobody has ever demonstrated any ability to follow a teleporter in the strip to date.

Psions provably exist. Trace Teleport is a psionic ability. There's no reason to think Rich house ruled it out of the comic.

(Not that Xykon's astral fortress is a loose end in any way; I look forward to reading confused "wait why did Rich never do anything with Xykon's astral fortress?" posts after the comic has ended.)

[Peelee]

Psions provably exist. Trace Teleport is a psionic ability. There's no reason to think Rich house ruled it out of the comic.

(Not that Xykon's astral fortress is a loose end in any way; I look forward to reading confused "wait why did Rich never do anything with Xykon's astral fortress?" posts after the comic has ended.)

Fair, but given the lack of psionics opposing Xykon, one showing up just to trace his teleport would be roughly on the same level as Xykon going to the fortress - useless except it happening for the sake of it happening.

[MartianInvader]

It prevents Xykon (and everyone else) from getting there though the vast majority of magical means. Nothing indicates it would prevent his soul from going back to the phylactery if his body was destroyed. So there's every reason to believe he did it and no reason to believe he didn't.


Going by how he described the fortress, i highly doubt anyone, even Xykon, can just "fly in". And even if he could, again, how would anyone follow him? Teleport is an escape spell, and nobody has ever demonstrated any ability to follow a teleporter in the strip to date.

And, again, no reason for Xykon to go there even if he thinks he is about to he defeated and wants to run somewhere else when he can go to any random spot anywhere to recuperate just as well, since, again, teleport is a "get out of danger free" card.

You're arguing against my examples without addressing my overall point, which is this: I find it highly unlikely, for both practical and egotistical reasons, that Xykon would create a fortress that he himself was unable to access without destroying his body first.

[Metastachydium]

Fair, but given the lack of psionics opposing Xykon, one showing up just to trace his teleport would be roughly on the same level as Xykon going to the fortress - useless except it happening for the sake of it happening.

And that's where you are wrong! Just wait for Laurin, co-possessed by Thog (courtesy of the IFCC) and the Snarl (courtesy of the Snarl) to show and spice things up a tad!

[Peelee]

You're arguing against my examples without addressing my overall point, which is this: I find it highly unlikely, for both practical and egotistical reasons, that Xykon would create a fortress that he himself was unable to access without destroying his body first.

Why? If he can access it any other way, then so can others, which defeats the entire purpose of the fortress. The only reason he'd have to access it would be to move the phylactery somewhere else, in which case he can access it easier than anyone else by the way phylacteries work.

Or, i suppose, he could want to put something else there as well, but more things being there only increases the odds people would want to look for them, which again decreases the value of the fortress. Doubly so when he is clearly capable of creating it so he can do it again for other things if he really needs to.

Anyway, fact is there's no practical or egotistical reason for him to ever want to go there unless he wants to move the phylactery out, in which case he has a foolproof and simple way to get directly to it which is impossible for anyone else to follow.

And that's where you are wrong! Just wait for Laurin, co-possessed by Thog (courtesy of the IFCC) and the Snarl (courtesy of the Snarl) to show and spice things up a tad!

Oh come on. Those are all just Redcloak's neice at different points in the time stream.

[brian 333]

Oh come on. Those are all just Redcloak's neice at different points in the time stream.

It all makes sense now! Redcloak's Niece is the monster that invaded Xykon's Astral Fortress, and she will reveal herself as the Terrasque as the Stickworld collapses. She will then eat The Snarl and become the most real of all the gods but with Laurin's psyonic powers.

What an epic beginning to the next thirty-year Stickverse based comic about Elan's Happy Ending!

[Peelee]

It all makes sense now! Redcloak's Niece is the monster that invaded Xykon's Astral Fortress, and she will reveal herself as the Terrasque as the Stickworld collapses. She will then eat The Snarl and become the most real of all the gods but with Laurin's psyonic powers.

What an epic beginning to the next thirty-year Stickverse based comic about Elan's Happy Ending!

Now we're getting somewhere!

[Provengreil]

Oh come on. Those are all just Redcloak's neice at different points in the time stream.

Souffle girl?

[Precure]

As others have said, there’s no reason why Roy and Xykon can’t have a climatic duel at Kragor’s (Serini’s?) Gate, and no narrative reason for it to be at the Astral Fortress.

It's main fuction would be dividing Roy and Xykon from the rest of the order and others who may involve themselves unto their fight.

[Errorname]

It's main fuction would be dividing Roy and Xykon from the rest of the order and others who may involve themselves unto their fight.

For one, there are much easier ways to arrange a duel between two characters than that, and also no it wouldn't, because there's basically no way for Roy to actually get to the Fortress unassisted.

[Lord Torath]

Souffle girl?

"Your chin and his nose; the two of you could fence!"

[pita]

I might be dumb here or referring to something else, but I thought Minrah's secret is that she's gay and dwarves are very traditionalist so she hides it - which is why Thor makes sure to tell her it's ok by him, because he's not a homophobe.

[Peelee]

I might be dumb here or referring to something else, but I thought Minrah's secret is that she's gay and dwarves are very traditionalist so she hides it - which is why Thor makes sure to tell her it's ok by him, because he's not a homophobe.

Dwarves are very Lawful, but even if we called that traditional, why would the author (especially this author) choose to have an entire race be homophobic as a purely obscure background detail that many people may not even pick up on?

[Kardwill]

My headcanon is that she wrote self-insert romance fanfics about Thor when she was a teen, and has been worrying over people being judgemental about it ever since she became a cleric ^^

But I don't see it being a loose end. Minrah's secret sounds deeply personal, and it is hers only to share or keep, after all. All that matters is that she feared others' reactions, and Thor is completely cool about it and won't rat her out. It establishes him as an overall nice person far more efficiently than his alignment would ever do. :)

[Lord Torath]

I might be dumb here or referring to something else, but I thought Minrah's secret is that she's gay and dwarves are very traditionalist so she hides it - which is why Thor makes sure to tell her it's ok by him, because he's not a homophobe.

Durkon's mother tells him she wants him to bring home a nice girl or boy - she doesn't seem to care which. That seems to imply the dwarves are not particularly judgemental of homosexuals. Have to see if I can track down that strip. - Edit: See DM91365's post below, where he found the strip.

As far as Minrah's secret, I don't recall any hints other than it's something she doesn't want Durkon to know about.

[brian 333]

I always thought Minrah's Secret was a blank space into which readers could write their own hangups. The absence of a reveal would be necessary, in this case.

And it can't be that bad; we've already had a character admit to being skilled in macrame.

[Peelee]

I always thought Minrah's Secret was a blank space into which readers could write their own hangups. The absence of a reveal would be necessary, in this case.

And it can't be that bad; we've already had a character admit to being skilled in macrame.

Seconded, except the macrame part. You may allow such perversions but don't expect everyone to agree.

Have to see if I can track down that strip.

Cheater.

[dmc91356]

Sneaky, sure, but I took the bait:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.html

[Lord Torath]

Cheater.

Sneaky, sure, but I took the bait:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.html

Many thanks! I knew it was one of the flashbacks, but I didn't have time to go through the entirety of Utterly Dwarfed.