Adventurers' Guild Team Dingo OOC

[souldoubt]

OOC: Would this be a cartography check for Ian with +2 from aid other?

I'm pretty sure that you can only "aid another" in a skill if you are capable of performing that skill -- and cartography sounds like something that would be "trained only." So I don't think you could aid the check, unless Durx secretly has ranks in cartography.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

@Sledge_bro : In this world, Obad-Hai's domain as the deity of nature also includes the sea, like Poseidon. Many sailors and fishermen in Bridgeport worship Obad-Hai. By population, the most commonly worshipped deities in Bridgeport would be:

1)Pelor (almost exclusively humans)
2)Yondalla (almost exclusively halflings)
3)Garl Glittergold (more than half of gnomes, and in recent times increasingly popular among humans and halflings)
4)Obad-Hai (all races, especially popular among those whose jobs depend on nature/weather, such as sailors/fishermen and farmers)
5)Ehlonna (mostly popular among older, rural humans - this denomination is dying out)

Perhaps as play progresses you can give us an idea of what it means to be a cardinal, and what the differences are between Druids and Clerics of OBad-Hai (of if you want, we could just say that there are no Clerics of Obad-Hai; they're all Druids)

[DavidByron]

Ian has Craft (cartographer) and Profession (cartographer). Professions are trained use only, crafts are not. I assume the part where he wanders around town is the profession and the making of the map itself is the craft.

He's got a +5. I would think just taking ten would get a decent map even for a harder city like Bridgeport (it's big) but yeah, taking twenty would presumably take at least twenty times longer which for this skill might be months of work.

Besides a DC 25 map would be more work for XiaoTie and might limit some opportunities to slap stuff down around Bridgeport later on.

What sort of places would be on the map? City walls with gates, the bridge (how wide is the river? is there maybe a small island in the river that the bridge uses?), the main docks with warehouses and probably some smaller docks on the river (not sea) side of town. There is a military so a barracks. The library and the old center, where the guild hall is and close by the dung carters' guildhouse.

We know the weavers are a big guild so they probably have a building up in new Bridgeport along with the large grounds of the doge's mansion and some other municipal buildings, Marshal's quaters, other rich guildhouses, prominent churches, council house of Bridgeport, law court, maybe a jail. The biggest church of Pelor might even be called a cathedral.

But the weavers and the peat cutters guild are also based among halflings so they may have an old guildhouse out West along with a big church of Yondalla out there.

The third prominent church is Obad hai but Obad Hai might be funny about having a building at all or have some sort of wooden made shrine or something. Does Bridgeport have parks? In medieval times they wouldn't be parks exactly but there might be the doge's private grounds, maybe an area the Obad Hai church has and maybe "commons" towards the outskirts of town. OTOH the city known as "beautiful" might have some spare green more than normal.

What other guilds? Well we know the lumber that comes down the Timber river is a big business so obviously the carpenter/shipwrights. It's a port so you'd expect a merchant's guild (ie where merchant = long distance traders, not "bloke with a shop"). other possibilities: a gold worker's guild (likely to be rich), potters guild (the boggy land around Bridgeport perhaps has a lot of clay soil making this another West Bridgeport-based guild), glass worker's guild (sand from the beach). That's nine guilds so far so maybe two others. Masons (there's been a lot of skilled and expensive building in Bridgeport)? Tailors (using that cloth the weavers make)?

Other big buildings you might spot walking around... the River Dwarves would likely have some sort of clan building. Some public entertainment stuff like a theatre or two, a few public squares used for markets permanent or weekly and a separate market for cattle/livestock. A graveyard or two and on the port side again perhaps a light house or an office for the equivalent of the admiralty... though perhaps Bridgeport has no city owned fleet relying on merchantmen being recruited in times of war? There may be a partial sea wall to enclose a dock area and protect from enemy fleets.

Less major churches likely include the usual bunch of non-evil deities in the PHB Boccob, Ehlonna, Fharlanghn, Garl Glittergold, Heironeous, Kord, Moradin, Olidammara, St Cuthbert. It looks like Wee Jas might be relatively unknown in Bridgeport.

Main roads out of Bridgeport... presumably a road through the bog heading vaguely West from West Bridgeport since that half of town has long been a major halfling center, and a road North towards Khorinis.

[XiaoTie]

Like I said before, I am not going to map the entire city at once; it is not wise to do that IC or OOC. It would start with, say, 3 to 4 blocks radius from the Guildhouse itself, and then some more. Taking 20 or Taking 10 would depend on the DC set by Doc.

If it depends on me what to put on the map (such as the small islands you mentioned that could exist on the river) I would make it detailed indeed, but that is up to Doc to tell me what I see and what I don't see, according to my skill check and to his idea of the city [his own city ]. On a sidenote, I don't know how Doc is planning on going for Bridgeport being a true replica of a medieval city or a bit o' fantasy medieval-city (where parks are most likely there).

But yeah, now that you mentioned it makes sense that Aid another would only work if one had the skill as well.

Also, thanks for spotting my typo on the IC

[DavidByron]

This might sound odd but mapping 3-4 blocks around might be harder because you have less wiggle room afterwards. For one thing are there even blocks as such?

But the stuff that has been put within that distance would be,
(1) Ana's / Ana's brother's house (1 "block"?)
(2) the Dungcarters' guild house (3 "blocks"?) to the West
(3) the city library - variously described as close by - towards the bridge.

[XiaoTie]

This might sound odd but mapping 3-4 blocks around might be harder because you have less wiggle room afterwards. For one thing are there even blocks as such?

But the stuff that has been put within that distance would be,
(1) Ana's / Ana's brother's house (1 "block"?)
(2) the Dungcarters' guild house (3 "blocks"?) to the West
(3) the city library - variously described as close by - towards the bridge.

The number (3 or 4) was just a guess, not a sure thing; and by blocks I don't actually mean all-even-blocks, but more like there was (for instance) on the medieval map you showed me. The mapping could be divided in blocks, city-areas, or anything like that.

Actually it would be easier: Make couple blocks on one chart; continue mapping blocks from where you stopped the last time on another chart; make a new chart adding both charts previously finished.

And to do a mapping I would expect something a tad more accurate from Doc when I start doing the maps. I could do it "freestyle" with coordinates like you provided, if he (Doc) wanted so.

Here is something rather rough on how I would make the final version of one of the areas/blocks/whatever that has nothing to do how it actually is:

_____________________________________

Also, on a related note: Aren't Profession (Int) checks made to earn gold?

Check

You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems.

I took the liberty to emphasize the "relevant" parts. Depending on rule interpretation one could say that completing a simple task such as mapping an area of a city without any major threats, wouldn't require a roll, unless the professional is interested in making money (which is not the case with Ian).


I'm not saying that I shouldn't roll to make the map of the city, just showing a point or two.

[souldoubt]

Aren't Profession (Int) checks made to earn gold?

Profession is Wis based, not Int based.

Also, I agree with DavidByron that mapping the city out a few blocks at a time leaves little to no wiggle room for development later on. Trying to draw the city a few blocks at a time would be a bit like drawing an eye, a nose, a mouth, and then another eye, all completely separately from each other, and then trying to piece them together into a face.

My recommendation is that you first make a rough map of the whole of Bridgeport, with basic sections blocked out, labelling areas as (for example) "The Docks," "Merchant's Quarter," "Market Square," -- and certain of these areas could be marked with generic descriptors such as "Slums" or "Middle-Class Housing" that could later be given appropriate names. I'd also say that preliminary maps should be posted in the (HQ?) OOC thread where folks can give feedback and discuss the map and the city as it develops, and go, "Yay! I'm participating!"

All of which reminds me I still need to post that map of the Duchy of Colos I made like a month ago (and have been too lazy to upload to the photobucket thus far ).

[XiaoTie]

"Potato" "potato", you understood ;]

And yeah, I also mentioned areas as blocks on my post, and I think that mapping in small parts is better for me IC and OOC, I don't see how it would take space to add things (both physical and "plot"ical space).

[DavidByron]

I'm sure whichever approach you take is fine.
[hr]
You don't need to roll to make a map because you can "take ten".
[hr]

I still need to post that map of the Duchy of Colos I made like a month ago

Yay!

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Remember there is a crude map with the districts of the city on it on the AdvGuild photobucket page to get you started... I can't remember which thread I was in when I gave descriptions of the different parts of the city, and I can't remember if the library was in Old or New East Bridgeport.

[DavidByron]

Library's in old East Bridgeport because it's the old palace and because it's close to the guildhall.

[souldoubt]

Yay!

Don't get your hopes up. It's not a very good map.

[XiaoTie]

Hey David, the Dungcarters' guild house you mentioned is located on the Old East B. or on the West B. area (according to the rough map on the photobucket) ?

[DavidByron]

Old East Bridgeport.

Bridge (further than shown)
     \
      \
       \
        \
         Library------Guildhall - Ana's
Dung----/

We know you pass the library on the way to the HQ from the bridge. We klnow that going from the Dungcarter's to HQ your path crosses the same route. We know Ana's brother's house is only about a block away but is presumably not nearly so grand. I would guess that within a few blocks of the library would be the old center of town with still some very fine shops and ex-admin buildings right next to it and old fine town houses around that.

[XiaoTie]

How 'bout something like this I made to represent part of the Old East Bridgeport:

[DavidByron]

That looks good.
[hr]
Trajan's bridge across the Danube The Danube is a big river but I think the Timber is more like the Mississippi which is about twice as wide again. So maybe an island in the middle or perhaps the Vanorians just tried a bit harder.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Wow, that's a few notches above my paintbrush jobs! One clarification - the "Bridge Area" is really its own district... I can't remember where I posted this result to a local knowledge check, but we can assume the information has been spread around the guild.

Spoiler

Show

I) The city of Bridgeport and its surrounding area, collectively known as The Fair City of Bridgeport, is ruled by three branches of government.
A) The Head of State and Chief Magistrate is known by the title of "Doge" (pronounced with a long "o", soft "g", and silent "e") and is elected for life by the Council of Guilds, each guild having one vote through its guildmaster. The current Doge was once master of the Smiths' guild and took the name of Aloysius III upon his accession to power forty years ago.
B) The Council of Guilds, in addition to electing the Doge, has tremendous power of the purse. All levies of gold, goods, or government employees (including the Army) must be approved by the Council (except in case of a Holy Directive). The Doge has the power to do as he pleases once these materials or persons are appropriated for government use, but he knows that if he doesn't follow the Council's recommendations on expenditures, the Council will be less likely to give him future levies he requests. Voting power for levies is not equal among the guilds, but rather works by a seniority system: the most junior guild gets one vote, the second most junior gets two votes, and so forth all the way up to the most senior guild. Seniority is determined by the chronological order in which the guilds were approved to join the council. Votes by one guild are all-or-nothing and determined by the guildmaster. The different guilds have different methods of determining who their guildmaster is.
C) The third branch, known as "The High Priests" has little power except in great crisis. Each of the most senior clerics of the three most commonly worshiped deities in The Fair City (Pelor, Yondalla, and Obad-Hai) has the authority to declare a State of Emergency in The Fair City. This triumvirate then has the power to issue certain directives that are outside the usual laws, but these directives must be unanimous (all three clerics) or they are invalid. Examples of Holy Directives in Bridgeport history include a draft of citizens for the Army and seizure of private possessions needed by the Army (both done when the city was attacked by Vanorian cavalry centuries ago) and various quarantines of the port or certain parts of the city, usually for public health reasons. States of Emergency are actually declared every few years or so by one High Priest or another, but they are usually only political saber-rattling with no real power behind them. It is very rare that the High Priests of three different deities would ever agree on anything, much less a Holy Directive!
D) The formation of a new guild must be approved by a simple majority of guildmasters plus the approval of the Doge.
II) There are no known powerful wizards or sorcerors in The Fair City, but it is vaguely rumored that some of the guildmasters had supernatural assistance in gaining power in recent years.
III) The Army of Bridgeport is small but professional, and is commanded by an appointee of the Doge who holds the rank of Marshal. There is no Navy, but the Army has a few small boats for harbor and river patrols/defense.
IV) Among the citizens of The Fair City, most humans worship Pelor, most halflings worship Yondalla, and gnomes are about evenly split between Garl Glittergold and Obad-Hai. Other deities are worshipped to a smaller extent. Not all followers of each deity fall within the traditional racial delineations. Bridgeport tradition names Obad-Hai not only as the god of nature, but also as the god of the sea, and he is frequently depicted with a garland of seaweed rather than oak leaves.
V) Some areas of the city include:
A) The Docks. On the coast of the ocean to the east of the Timber River. Known for pubs full of rowdy (but fortunately small) gnome sailors.
B) Old East Bridgeport. Just north of the Port, a mostly industrial area. This was the center of activity in Bridgeport before the Timber River trade routes opened with the Dwarves. There are quite a few homes that were once considered grand and are now crumbling (including the Adventurers' Guildhall).
C) The River Trade District. On the eastern bank of the Timber River. The center of trade with human, dwarf, and halfling cities inland.
D) New East Bridgeport. This part of town, once farmland, was developed when Aloysius III became Doge. A grid of well organized streets contains new government buildings and the more important guildhalls, as well as the homes of many government and guild officials.
E) West Bridgeport. Populated mostly by halflings, it is home to a small-boat fishing industry as well as many peat-cutters and peat-carters.
F) The Great Bridge Area, on both banks of the river, has no residential homes, but serves as a thriving downtown for shopping areas and entertainment venues.

EDIT: Oops, one inconsistency. Obad-Hai used to be the 3rd most popular deity, but in recent years he has been bumped down the list by the growing church of Garl Glittergold.

EDIT "Port" district changed to "Docks", Old "Docks" district changed to "River Trade" District.

[DavidByron]

So maybe shrink the scale of the "library district" or "old center district" and keep the coastal outline the same size? to leave room for more stuff near the bridge?

Updated the local data sheet on Bridgeport re. the three top churches (Obad-Hai still has the authority of declaring war etc).

[XiaoTie]

So I should take the bridge out of the map, make the area around the Librabry a bit smaller and add some more buildings to represent the "previously industrial area", right ?

Perhaps like this:

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Looks great, as long as the coastline extends a little further south to make room for the Docks district in accordance with my beautiful map of the different districts:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...bridgeport.jpg

...err, I mean the Port District. Err...DANG IT! I've been calling the Port the Docks. OK, I think the best solution is that from now on the Port district will be called the Docks district (that purple area on the ocean). That brown district will now be called the River Trade District. I'll post this in the HQ OOC thread.

As you make more maps feel free to make things a little less square

The Docks district is not only the docks and shipbuilding places and warehouses but also the pubs and boarding houses serving the dockworkers.
The Jasmine & Clove is there, as are the Weaver's Guild warehouse and a church of Garl Glittergold.

[XiaoTie]

Looks great, as long as the coastline extends a little further south to make room for the Docks district in accordance with my beautiful map of the different districts:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...bridgeport.jpg

...err, I mean the Port District. Err...DANG IT! I've been calling the Port the Docks. OK, I think the best solution is that from now on the Port district will be called the Docks district (that purple area on the ocean). That brown district will now be called the River Trade District. I think this should only affect Team Cougar and the HQ IC thread.

As you make more maps feel free to make things a little less square

The Docks district is not only the docks and shipbuilding places and warehouses but also the pubs and boarding houses serving the dockworkers.

Yeah, I left space to make the other areas. I used your map to kinda get me going . And sure, I'll change that map later to make it a bit less "squary"

[DavidByron]

err, I mean the Port District. Err...DANG IT! I've been calling the Port the Docks.

LOL, I think I was calling them the main docks or just "docks" and the "old docks" or the "river docks" ... or anything really but yeah two of them.

And presumably West Bridgeport must have something tho not industrialised. Some halflings like water I guess, though I think for the river only. Halfling sailors? Hmm. Maybe-- if goblins are sailors. And to get around the bog they might use light punts or other extremely shallow flat boats.

[XiaoTie]

Here we go, a bit more round map with a strong stone road:

[DavidByron]

next project for Ioth: dig a secret tunnel to Ana's house.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Oh, I didn't mean the roundness of this particular map - I just meant the way I had the districts divided up like lego blocks.
My only concern on this map is that the ocean is so close to the dungcarter's house - I'm looking at the bottom left hand corner of the picture and thinking that if the ocean is that close to Old East Bridgeport there, that if the coast doesn't curve southward just outside the border of the picture than there's not enough room for the newly-named Docks district.
I love the way the water looks.

[XiaoTie]

Oh, I didn't mean the roundness of this particular map - I just meant the way I had the districts divided up like lego blocks.
My only concern on this map is that the ocean is so close to the dungcarter's house - I'm looking at the bottom left hand corner of the picture and thinking that if the ocean is that close to Old East Bridgeport there, that if the coast doesn't curve southward just outside the border of the picture than there's not enough room for the newly-named Docks district.
I love the way the water looks.

Oooooooooooooh, that . That is easy. Both the curve going southward on the next map area south of this one, and getting the areas not exactly square.

[souldoubt]

Oh, I didn't mean the roundness of this particular map - I just meant the way I had the districts divided up like lego blocks.

Maybe we're shooting more for misshapen lego blocks that some kid stuck up next to a lightbulb and partially melted.

[Sledge_bro]

Thats one rich begger

[XiaoTie]

Well, he only has a couple of coins

[DavidByron]

1 sp a day is the rate for unskilled labour.