Arena Tournament, Round 24: Kalder vs Reave

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

I'm not asking for a rewind of any sort. I'm asking that his action be taken as posted, which means that his spell doesn't go off.

I'm confused at what you are asking. Are you saying that when we go back to Kaldar's turn, where he took the invalid action, he should be forced to keep the javalin in hand?

[Mavian]

I'm saying that he attempted to cast a spell with the javelin in hand, which means that the spell would fizzle, which is not actually an illegal action, the rest of his actions are also completely, which means that he would charge, and I would get hit, but that he would not have the damage increase the spell represents.

[Bigmac]

I think it's pretty clear that I ment to drop the javelin. A spell caster would drop the javelin when he tried to cast the spell. If it came down to trying to make the gestures and the javelin getting in the way, why whould he NOT drop it.

Still, even if it's upheld that he doesn't drop the javelin, then we would still need to rewind. Reason being is that I would have new information that I didn't before, mainly that the spell didn't work (which he would obviously know).

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

According to the SRD, you can't cast a spell without providing the components. A spell cannot fizzle because you couldn't provide a component you thought you could, you just can't cast the spell.

Rewinding to before the invalid action still doesn't change the course of events, unless you have some sort of reason why he should be forced to not drop the javalin.

[Mavian]

How about the spell failure rules.

Spell Failure

If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted

The components are a part of the characteristics of the spell. Failing to provide the proper somatic component causes the spell to fail and be wasted.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

10 points to Mavian for proving the head ref wrong.

The spell casting fails, so the rewind is just to right after the casting fails, because at that point Kaldar doesn't have the gore attack granted by the spell. Play continues from there.

Looks like Reave just got his bacon saved by a technicality.

[Bigmac]

If you can't beat 'em, rules lawyer your way out on a technicality eh?

Kaldar will curse and double move to D26

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 19
Effects: Bull's Strength 6/30, Travel Devotion 6/10, Guidance 5/10
Location: D26

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

An encyclopedic knowledge of the rules has to be good for something.

Did you still do your charge, or did you move instead?

[Bigmac]

He decided not to charge.

Kaldar will curse and double move to D26

[Mavian]

Reave.

Move Action: Move to F20

Standard Action: Ready an Action

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Ready an action to move if Kalder casts a spell

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 2/8
Shift: 2/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar moves to N24 and readies an action.

Stats:

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Ready an action to attack with the javelin if Reave is within 20ft and doesn't have any cover

HP 14
AC 19
Effects: Bull's Strength 7/30, Travel Devotion 7/10, Guidance 6/10, Ready Action
Location: N24

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to M24, going north around the wall.

End Turn

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 3/8
Shift: 3/13

[Bigmac]

When you get to K24, Kaldar's ready action triggers and he throws his javelin at you.

attack - (1d20-1)[1]
damage - (1d6+6)[10]

[Bigmac]

Kaldar withdraws to X18 as a full round action, and then uses a swift action to move to X10. He will draw another javelin as he moves.

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 8/30, Travel Devotion 8/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to W10

End of Turn:

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 4/8
Shift: 4/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar will withdraw again this time from X10 to Z8 to Z3 and then up to R3 as a full round action and then he will use a swift action to move to N3.

End of Turn

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 9/30, Travel Devotion 9/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to O3

End of Turn:

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 4/8
Shift: 4/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar withdraws (first to M4) and then continues on to M16. He them uses a swift action to move to M24.


End of Turn

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 10/30, Travel Devotion 10/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Double Move to N23, going south around the center walls

End of Turn

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 5/8
Shift: 5/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through L23 and continue to F13.

Stats:

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will add later
Edit: Added in.
HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 11/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

Edit: Fixed stat block.

[Mavian]

Reave:

Double Move to F14

End of Turn

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 7/8
Shift: 7/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through G12 and continue to M3.

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 12/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Double move to N3

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 8/8
Shift: 8/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through L4 and continue to M16. Kaldar will loose his tower shield as he moves.

Stats:

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HP 14
AC 17
Effects: Bull's Strength 13/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

I am of the understanding loosing a shield is not the same as drawing a weapon (or equivalent). I do not believe you can do that without spending the required move action to solely loose the shield.

[Bigmac]

Ever since THE RULING, I've decided to double check every action that I'm taking.

From the SRD

Ready or Loose a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or loose a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.

Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.

q.e.d.

[Bronz]

I stand corrected. I should have double checked myself.

[Mavian]

I'm going to stay in N3

Standard Action:

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Ready an Action to move if Kalder gets within 40 feet.

End of Turn:

Stats:

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Hp: 24
Ac: 15
Shift: 9/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

Kaldar 5ft steps to N16 while drawing a wand. He then casts a spell.

End of Turn.

Stats:

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Casting true strike from the wand.

HP 14
AC 17
Effects: Bull's Strength 14/30, True Strike

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Move to N11 and ready an action

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Ready an action to move if Kalder gains LoE

End of Turn

Stats:

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Hp: 19
Ac: 15
Shift: 9/13
Status: Fatigued