The Thing: A Werewolf Game

[Fleeing Coward]

Yea, would have been nice if human had won but not really that suprising that wasn't the case.
The amount of Things in the game was just way too many the way the game works.
While it might seem like 13 out of 41 doesn't look that high but the fact that they can hold back on when they infect and pass unused infections to another Thing on death makes them extremely overpowered even without the night kill due to 2 facts:
1) Things recruited later on completely screws up the proportion of remaining Villagers vs Things way more than the initial 13 out of 41 players would indicate.
2) It completely ruins the villager's main weapon against wolves - a secure network of trusted people. Without it, the whole game is turned into a game of chance that villagers have little chance of winning.

@v Guess I'll wait for the game to offically end then but I've got reasons to believe that Things can't lose this game if they played it properly.

[Freshmeat]

I disagree, but I'd prefer to keep this kind of talk until the game is officially over. Let's just say the Things got insanely lucky at one point during the game. If it hadn't been for that, they would've certainly lost.

[Mordokai]

((@^ Very much true. Like he said, lets wait until the official game ending, but let me assure you, the amount of planning that went into our victory was humongous.))

Coming from the bedrooms, Mordokai looks more than a little pale. In fact, you would say that it's not humanly possible to be THIS pale. When he opens his mouth, it is obvious that he is having troubles speaking, like something would be controling his vocal cords.

"I'm sorry people... I really am. I never intend it to end it this way."

With that, he falls down to the floors, not moving. But you can see something is moving under his skin and you all know what that means.

[Mustiado]

((... I guess that means its too late to change my point.))

--Mustiado stares at Mordokai, and starts screaming hysterically, practically clawing the walls to get out of the room, away from that... thing... He bursts through the front door, and into the snow, still screaming wildly and showing no signs of stopping--

[FoE]

((For the purposes of the ending Vavaara and I had already half-written, I’m ignoring the last few posts. It’s a bit long and there are some Bible quotes in there, so don’t feel like reading it if you don’t want to.))

Spoiler

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“It’s her, captain,” Mordokai said. “It’s gotta be. She’s the firestarter.”
I looked at them, all 10 of them or so, gathered in the kitchen of the outpost. They had all been talking about who was left, and who to take down next. Mordokai had convinced the others to point at Vavaara, telling them what Darkbane had shared with them.
“coolgaelbaert knew too,” he said. “She’s been killing off the other psychics, trying to eliminate anyone who knew who she was.”
“If she is the Assassin, won’t she go after the Things next?” I asked.
“Did she spare Fleeing Coward? Or Eldritch Knight? She’s going to kill us all, Captain.”
I thought for a moment, and then agreed. As a group, we headed for her quarters.

***

I don’t know what to believe anymore.

I have killed three of my fellow psychics. And yet, I do not feel regret at their deaths. I can only revel in the feeling of my blue, twisting, fiery companion.

Where others lie and cajole their way into my trust and then betray me, my dancing friend knows no such deceptions. I stand alone against the demons of the void, stranded at the top of the world with those who would kill me. I know they are coming for me, for I felt the presence of a little thought-thief the night past, and though the others led me to him, I fear the damage has been done. I know one thing for certain, however: I will not be subverted by these demons, and I will not be toyed with before my life is taken.

I can hear them outside the room. They believe themselves to be quite silent, but I can hear them regardless. I can sense them. And as I stand, I feel a sense of relief that I can finally reveal my true self, and become one with my flaming companion. I open the floodgates of my mind, and allow the raw POWER to pour out of me, watching as the room around me is engulfed in a cool, calming covering of blue fire. Though I am fast losing myself in the wonderful feeling of utter release, I retain enough presence of mind to keep my friend away from the door. No sense in alerting them that their plan shall end in flame and destruction.

As the flames approach their zenith, I watch serenely as the door bursts open and one of my once-comrades runs head long into the flames. I think his name was Irbis, but it hardly matters. His scream is a combination of surprise, fear, and pain.

With a voice that seemed to carry throughout the room and outside it, I speak my challenge to the waiting soldiers outside. “And a fire was kindled in their company, while the flame burned up the wicked… And so I shall cause my voice to be heard, and shall pour the cleansing fire upon thee, with the indignation of my wrath, and the passion of an all-consuming flame.”

Another tries to rush me — Zombie pixe? — but he barely takes a few steps before he is down, screaming as the flames consume him.

I walk slowly towards the door, each step slightly muffled by the quiet roar of the flames, and move into the corridor. They shrink back from the radiating heat, and I see more than just fear in a few eyes. I see HATE, and a loathing that seems out of place on a human countenance. I turn towards one near me… the Captain… and speak to him.

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]“ The flame from the angel's sword in the Garden of Eden has been catalyzed into me; God's wrath became blunted, so my incorruptible fire has become the steel star of destruction. COLOR]

They’re retreating now, firing their useless guns. The bullets melt before they can reach me, falling to the floor in small pools of liquid metal. I glance down, and notice my clothing beginning to singe.

It makes me smile.

They have closed a large metal door down the hall from me. I could melt it, but already the flame is growing too hot. They have sealed off the other end of the hall as well, leaving the corridor I am in sealed off from the rest of the complex. I begin to feel a tightening in my chest, and notice that the ventilation shaft above me has been warped by the flames to the point that nothing can pass through.

The flames are rolling off of me like waves in the ocean, and I feel myself growing faint. In my mind’s eye, Nevertheless, I revel in its warmth. So warm… So soothing… I hardly notice myself collapse, and note with barely-conscious alarm that my flesh is crinkling like parchment. As I drift off into the endless sleep, caressed by my warm, blue friend, I do not feel the pain of death.

***

One minute, we’re running from an inferno. The next, we’re flat on our faces, as that entire section of the base goes nuclear.
The force of the explosion shakes the entire outpost, and everyone who’s escaped in the corridor with me gets knocked off their feet. The weird thing is how quiet everything is; even though it feels like the world’s coming to an end, I can hear myself and everyone crying out, and the pounding of my heart in my ears.
In the end, there’s a long sigh, and when I look up, the door has been fused together.
“Holy ****,” someone mutters.
Later, when we get outside, we can see that half of the outpost is gone; all that’s left is a smooth metal shell.
“Jesus,” Eskar mutters. “It’s been fused together. The walls, the doors, the floor — all of it.”
“We should be grateful the generator didn’t go out,” mutters Eita.
A second later, the base goes black.

Day 8 has ended. Vavaara was lynched. She was the Assassin.
Irbis and Zombie pixe were autolynched. They were both Grunts.

And with that, the Things officially outnumber the Grunts.

[FoE]

We gathered in the rec room to await the bad news. Eksar, Mustiado and onasuma returned with grim looks.
“The generator’s gone,” Mustiado said.
“Any way we can fix it?”
“It’s ‘gone’, Captain. As in not there anymore. I don’t know how, but they must have taken it.” Mustiado slumped down in one of the chairs, covering his hands.
“But why?” Shadowcaller asked.
“They can survive in the cold. We can’t. Once we’re dead, all they need to do is wait for the eventual rescue party.” I sighed. “They were probably just waiting for us to kill off the Assassin before making their final move.”
“We have a little time,” I said. “The explosion set the temperatures up all over the camp. But it won’t last long. And when these fires go out, neither will we.”
Silence gripped the room.
“So I guess this means we are officially screwed, huh?”
I looked over at DemonicAngel. His face was hidden behind the goggles and the thick fur coat, but I could hear the despair in his voice.
“Yeah,” I said, the truth of it hitting me.. “But I’m not letting them win so easily. Remember when we got here, we found the explosives in the basement? They’re still wired to go. I say, we blow this ****hole sky-high.”
No one said anything at first. Finally, Eksar spoke up.
“Damn right,” he said. “Like we should have done days ago. Let’s do —“
Eksar never finished his sentence, his words cut off by Mordokai’s hand clasped around his throat. He twisted sharply, and there was a loud crack before Eskar’s body flopped to the floor.
“I’m sorry, people,” Mordokai said, dropping to his knees. His face bulged as though there was something underneath trying to burst through the surface. “I really am. I never intended it to end this way.”
His mouth then opened impossibly wide to reveal a maw full of fangs, and a long stinger-like tongue that whipped back and forth wildly.
“****!” Mustiado shouted. “Everybody get out!” He headed for the door, running screaming out into the bitter cold.
“Come on!” I shouted to the rest. “Follow me!”
As we moved towards the corridor, they all came out, the traitors among us. Da Rogue burst out of a storeroom just as Banjo passed by, pulling him inside; blood showered out in the room and his screams followed us as we kept running.
Dr. Bath appeared with the flamethrower, blocking our path. He roasted Onasuma with a blast of fire, but Eita ignited his gas tank with a bullet, and he went up like a torch.
Shadowcaller, the quiet one among us, took off DemonicAngel’s head as he headed down the stairs, and I could hear Eita trying slashing at him with his knife, trying to put him down. His screams followed me as I reached the bomb.
The detonator was in my hand when the ground burst outward, and the dog-Thing that had appeared when we blew the chopper came slithering out of the hole, now more like a snake than anything else. A thousand eyes turned towards me, and an ear-splitting squealing roar emitted from its mouths.
“Yeah, well, **** YOU TOO!” I plunged down the detonator, and a moment after the Thing’s tendrils pierce my chest, there is nothingness.

***

The explosion could have been seen for miles, were there any people there to see it. And in the aftermath, there was silence amidst the smoldering remains of Outpost 31.
But not for long.
Slowly but surely, the survivors picked themselves out of the scorched ruins. They dig their way out of snowbanks and from under collapsed timbers, using claws and pincers as tools. And when they are out, they gather in a circle.
“So what now?” da Rogue asks, looking around.
Aemoh considers. “They might still send another team,” he says. “They might still investigate. We could get out that way.”
Haruki-kun shakes his head. “More like they’ll assume the worst, and hit this place with a missle.”
“So what?” Raiser B1ade asks. “We walk? Across a thousand miles?”
“It can be done,” Shadowcaller says. “And then we swim. It’ll take a long time, but we’ll make it.”
Mordokai sighs. “We hoped we could get back sooner. And that it would be easier.
Ranna looks out at the horizon. “No sense complaining. It looks like we have a long trek ahead of us. Shall we move out?”
The others begin to move out, but the Captain beckons them to stay, holding out his hand.
“We can’t be sure that Dr. Bath is dead. We still smell him,” he says. “Why don’t we just wait here for a little while … and see what happens?”
“It’s not like we’re in a hurry,” he adds, with a smile. “All we have is time.”

The End

Darth Solice-Grunt
Freshmeat-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Raiser Blade-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Keris Rain-Grunt
Bushranger-Telepath
Vavaara-Assassin
Travelling Angel-Grunt
Ominous-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Mustiado-Grunt
Fleeing Coward-Grunt
Haruki-kun-The Commander, turned into a Thing
Mordokai-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Onasuma-Twin
Banjo1985-Grunt
Emperor Demonking-Grunt
topher-Grunt
Aemoh-Traitor, turned into a Thing
Irbis-Grunt
I'm da Rogue!-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Doseki-Thing
Darkbane-Telepath
coolgaelbert-Medium
Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins-Thing
KerfuffleMach2-Grunt
pankake-Grunt
MadHatter-Grunt
Dr. Bath-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Eita-Twin
Eksar Lindisfar-Grunt
Eldritch Knight-Grunt
Kay-Grunt
JMK-Grunt
Someonenonotyou-Grunt
Zombie pixe-Grunt
DemonicAngel-Grunt
Fin-Telepath
Ranna-Grunt, turned into a Thing
Ramebriz-Thing
gnome4ever-Grunt
Shadowcaller-Grunt, turned into a Thing
LeoMan-Grunt

[Haruki-kun]

AWESOME!!!!! WOOT!!!!! WE WON!!!!!

Oh, and....

Yea, would have been nice if human had won but not really that suprising that wasn't the case.
The amount of Things in the game was just way too many the way the game works.
While it might seem like 13 out of 41 doesn't look that high but the fact that they can hold back on when they infect and pass unused infections to another Thing on death makes them extremely overpowered even without the night kill due to 2 facts:
1) Things recruited later on completely screws up the proportion of remaining Villagers vs Things way more than the initial 13 out of 41 players would indicate.
2) It completely ruins the villager's main weapon against wolves - a secure network of trusted people. Without it, the whole game is turned into a game of chance that villagers have little chance of winning.

@v Guess I'll wait for the game to offically end then but I've got reasons to believe that Things can't lose this game if they played it properly.

Dood, are you freakin' kidding me? You think your main weapon was ruined? We were Wolves without a night kill! THAT is OUR main weapon.

Well, FoE, this was a great game, thanks for everything. I enjoy a good challange.

[Freshmeat]

The opinions are apparently divided on who was holding the cards and who wasn't. In any event, let me just say: good job Things!
And sorry to Mordokai for forcing you into a role you didn't want to play.

On balance (warning: long):

Spoiler

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Recruitment is obviously powerful, and probably the most difficult thing to balance in a werewolf game. Because of this, games based on recruitment are always going to stir up a lot of debate on what is overpowered and what isn't. Especially if unrefusable recruitment is involved (even if it's a thematic fit).
As per the current rules, I think all factions involved need to play in a rather unusual way to win. Still, I have to disagree that the Things are overpowered. Yes, even in the face of such an (apparent) 'easy' victory. I'd even go so far as to say that this was actually quite close. Call me insane if you will, but allow me to explain first:

Let me first relate to you one of our less-than-stellar moments:
At one point during the game, the Things were still completely disorganized, with no idea of who was on whose side and how many recruitment attempts each cell had left. The grunts on the other hand were quickly establishing a network of trusted and semi-trusted people (which isn't all that difficult if you’ve got three seers). It's interesting that one of them actually got lynched while trying to get one of the Things killed. I dare say that that was a total fluke and complete luck on our part.
But more importantly: during all of this, the assassin had been killing a disproportionate amount of Things. We later found out that this was no coincidence: Vavaara (the assassin) had actually come into contact with one of the Telepaths and had taken the decision that if she was going to lose anyway, she might just as well take down as many Things as she could with her. My head split just about in half when I heard that, because we needed the assassin's help to win.

That’s one of the main issues that really needs to be addressed. As it stands, the assassin simply cannot win. Surviving a werewolf game is already insanely hard. Especially if you’ve got to be the last man standing.
It becomes utterly impossible if the amount of seers is upgraded from two (seer, devil) to four, and if all of them know right off the bat that their scries will be 100% accurate. Things only get worse for the assassin when you realize that, on top of that, the commander knows all of the psychic’s identities as well, which means that (given a bit of time and deduction) he can easily figure out who the assassin is.
All of this means that the assassin is really inclined to just do whatever he wants until his (inevitable) death. Since you’d need to play like a freaking God and have the luck of titans to win, the assassin in this game simply decided to side with whichever faction she liked more. When it was the Grunts, we got slaughtered.
Only when she decided to side with us did things get relatively close.

You might find that last word a bit interesting. I actually do believe that yes, this was quite close. In the end the Things had no (or possibly just one) recruitment attempt left. In other words: at the end of the game, the Things were helpless.
As soon as the Grunts would establish a foothold in the voting phase, the Things would die. As soon as someone gets even a token of trust, there’s nothing you can do to that person.
Recruit him? Not if you’ve got no recruitment attempts left.
Kill him? Not an option, unless you somehow manipulate the assassin into doing your bidding (and we had to set up dozens of contingency plans and give Vavaara false leads just in case she’d betray us).
Lynch him? Utterly impossible, unless you're willing to expose all of your allies to obtain a majority vote against one single person.

Keep in mind that in a situation like that (i.e. no remaining recruitment attempts), it would've been disastrous if a Thing would have been killed. If that had happened, the Things would've needed to get a grunt lynched on two more consecutive days, and dodge the assassin's night kills during that timeframe as well. That's three-four more deaths that have to go precisely your way.
Even then, if anyone – anyone would have stepped up, analyzed the votes for even a minute and got a Thing killed – maybe even on the day thereafter as well – it would’ve been game over. That’s the entire thing (no pun unintended): the Things wouldn’t have been able to fight back (that's actually after we already specifically held on to our recruitment attempts, and were dearly hoping the other cells would have done the same). So yes, this was close, and the last two days of voting were absolutely crucial.

So, you might say, that was the ‘amazing’ luck you spoke of earlier? The assassin siding with you?
Not really. Our stroke of luck was actually the fact that Haruki-Kun, the Commander, got recruited by the Things.
Before that happened, we were totally blind. Three seers were still out there. An assassin was slaughtering us. Almost every day the masses were lynching one of us. And then I got recruited and received word that the Commander was on our side. Even though he couldn’t use his day bane ability (for obvious reasons), this was such a lucky break for us that our odds of ‘not losing’ went up considerably.

Since I knew I’d die within only a matter of days from getting recruited, I decided to do as much damage as possible. I contacted a good portion of the psychics on Haruki’s list, claiming to have scried them and hoping to bait them into revealing their precise role (I won’t go into the details). Suffice it to say that I knew it’d get me killed, but based on the minimal (2) responses I got, we were able to figure out all the psychic’s identities. Since we only had one recruitment attempt left, however, and knew of no other Things, we somehow had to find the assassin and manipulate her into killing a good chunk of all the other psychics for us. That was our only option, really. Knowing who is the cause of your problems isn’t enough if you don’t have sufficient means to do something about it. The rest, as they say, is history.
If Haruki hadn’t been infected, it would’ve taken us all game to find the remaining seers, the medium, the twins and the assassin. The way things were going at that point, there’s no doubt in my mind that we would’ve been slaughtered. Grunt networks may not be 100% foolproof, but with this many scrying action, and with only a limited number of recruitment attempts to work with, you’ll have to go to creative lengths to deal with your problems.

That said, I’m aware that it’s not exactly a cakewalk for the Grunts either. But even as the Things set everything up so that both remaining Telepaths and the Medium would die in quick succession, I’m surprised that no one ever acted upon things. The game was slipping away for them, but (almost) no one spoke up. I can see how Banjo, Eksar and Demonicangel voiced their doubts and tried to still turn the bandwagon around during the last day, but by the time they did so, it was already too late. Once the psychics started dying, everything soon fell apart, even though nothing had really been lost yet.
A bit of analysis and on-the-spot networking (regardless of whether you can *fully* trust your companions) would have easily done the trick.
I also wonder why no one ever publicly pleaded for the assassin to think long and hard on who could be a Thing and then kill them. That’s the reason I precisely asked Vavaara (about three days in advance or so) to kill Fleeing Coward, as I could imagine him being one of the people who would also try to turn things around. All the grunts really needed was one more Thing dead. From there on out, things would have gone downhill for the Things (sorry, it offers just too much pun potential).
I also wonder why no one got the link between ‘mass psychic deaths’ and ‘Commander = Thing’.

As such, I say that the Things were not overpowered. This win was a mixture between luck, complex ploys, grunt complacency (Near the end almost half of the players were Things. How hard can it be to find a Thing then?) and various other circumstances. The fact that not a single Thing got autolynched certainly played to our advantage (okay, Dom – who I suspect to have been a Thing – did get auto’d on day 2, but his role was reassigned). So was the fact that this game contained a lot of newer players, who perhaps may not have felt comfortable with speaking up and voicing their doubts about the truthfulness of their latest of leaders (Mordokai).

I think the game is a bit fragile, however. The way everything turned out, the number of people the Things could recruit corresponded relatively well with the total number of players. Two or three less autolynchees and this game would’ve ended completely differently if you ask me. I'm 100% positive that with even one additional day and night, the grunts would've been able to turn this game entirely around.

The one thing that did help us was that the recruitment was unrefusable. Even though I feel that the Grunts had the best odds of winning this game, I think that a good portion of the playerbase was simply too scared to speak up. If they spoke up, they’d just get recruited. Of course, us Things wouldn’t really want to recruit those kind of people, because those were prime targets for the assassin as well. The only reason why we recruited Mordokai was because we couldn’t let him and his network go unchecked, and because we needed someone to control the votes for us (highly essential at that point) without us having to expose all of our members. Even then we had to explicitly convince the assassin that we were planning on getting Mordokai killed through a lynching, which is why we asked her to try and frame Mordokai in the narrations she’d send in.

To recap: we would've lost if:
- Haruki-Kun had not been recruited (!)
- Vavaara had refused to work with us
- Vavaara had killed even one Thing in the last couple of days
- Vavaara been lynched before we put her to work on the psychics
- The past five game days not gone precisely as planned
- Any sort of resistance movement had formed itself sooner.
- Fin had not been lynched (We'd have needed to spend one of our precious recruitment attempts to remove him, well aware that he'd get lynched shortly thereafter. We wouldn't have been able to rely on the assassin because the assassin was working with the grunts at the time.)
- One or maybe two Things had been autolynched.
- Any combination of the above
- Anything I'm forgetting here.

These all relate to the current game. There is one (somewhat risky) play the Things could make that would technically give them the advantage. It'd involve holding on to about 90% of all your recruitment attempts, and spending all of them in the last couple of days. This doesn't provide you with much protection in the day phase (since you've got no allies to cover for you), and an unlucky night kill by the assassin would also hurt you badly.
You'd also have to somehow get the other Thing cells to agree with that plan, even though you've got no conceivable way of knowing their identities at the beginning of the game.
Still, from a purely theoretical point of view, this is possible.

However, since this has no actual bearing on what happened during this game, consider this merely an aside to my previous points.

I agree that it's difficult for the Grunts to set up a completely reliable network, but really, does a network need to be 100% foolproof to work? The Things only have a limited number of recruitment attempts. Only a small portion of any network is ever going to get compromised. I dare say for every six people the seer tells you are safe, five are probably good, and one has been recruited in the meantime. It'll be hard to find him, sure, but it's not *that* big of a deal really because you'd know a higher proportion of grunts than the current Grunt/Thing ratio.
As for getting scried Things lynched - one could always work with proxies. And proxies that work for proxies. And so on.
Under these circumstances, playing in a straightforward fashion simply doesn't work.
I believe this game was actually fairly close, and that's after I readily admit that the Things got lucky on multiple occassions.

[Fleeing Coward]

AWESOME!!!!! WOOT!!!!! WE WON!!!!!

Oh, and....


Dood, are you freakin' kidding me? You think your main weapon was ruined? We were Wolves without a night kill! THAT is OUR main weapon.

Well, FoE, this was a great game, thanks for everything. I enjoy a good challange.

Well, I think alot of people here are way underestimating the wolve's recruitment ability here. Also, while the assassin isn't working for the things, he/she wants the telepaths and medium dead just as bad and most nights are going to kill a villager purely on the balance of probabilities.
The Things in my opinion made a tactical error in doing so much recruiting early on. Had they remained a small target early on, even with 3 telepaths, baring a huge piece of luck, they're not going to have much trouble hiding with only 3 in 40.
Now, even assuming a 10% autolynch rate (it's usually even higher than that), you're more than likely going to have a situation of 3 out of 30 by the end of night 3. At this point, what are the chances of the things losing with up to potentially 13 out of 30 when the things can recruit basically everyone bar the assassin and thus strip the psychic of their roles in the process as well as breaking into any fledging network that has been set up?
While I don't have solid numbers on percentages, that intuitively looks overpowered to me and I'd really like someone to prove me wrong.

[Freshmeat]

It appears we have come to the same conclusion. Suffice it to say that in this specific regard, the Things do hold the advantage.
It's also the reason why I'm not a fan of abilities that don't scale well over time. Being able to recruit people later on in the game is far more powerful than it is early on.

However, it's highly unlikely that in a game with so many newcomers to WW (most of whom I'd love to play with/against in other games as well, mind you) every separate Thing cell would come to the same conclusion, so this isn't an immediate concern.
Still, from a purely theoretical point of view, there's no doubt that that would be the best course of action the Things could take. In case of a Thing 2.0, this would need to be addressed, just on the off-chance that all initial Things end up being veteran players.

[Mordokai]

Freshmeat basicaly summed everything up, so I'll just add a few "pearls of wisdom".

I hated everybody who recruited me. Let me tell you, that was one big letdown. I was expecting that to happen for some time but it still came a shock. I came to pretty much same conclusions as Freshmeat and was pretty sure that a gmae is lost for Things at that point. However, having a large percentage of new players, it looks like nobody wanted to risk himself getting lynched and speak against me. Or perhaps they thought that it would be too obvious that I'd get infected by then. In any case, things once again got lucky. Even after I had MadHatter lynched, Vavaara still wasn't suspicious of me and killed FC during the night, we infected Rogue(I payed dearly for that ) and got Vavaara killed during last day. Banjo was great help to me in this and luckily he believed me and got Vavaara framed. This also served as my backup, since Vavaara thought that banjo is a Thing and I was hoping that she would point at him, thinking he is a Thing, trying to get her lynched. They both served as double backup, making me almost foolproof. In unlikely case that banjo decided to share that it was me who got him to point at Vavaara I hope he would do that too late to matter. It worked.

Vavaara did many mistakes. If what Freshmea says is true, first one was to trust Telepaths. She should kill everybody who knew her identity and only kill things when it was getting dangerous for her. Assassin was the most interesting role in this game, but also the hardest. I believe Freshmeat himself would have hard time pulling this off, let alone somebody relatively new to this. The other mistake she did was trusting me. I was more then little amazed when she didn't kill me, but happy at same time. Sorry I betrayed you Vavaara, but it was necessary.

Had everything turned out just a little differently, Things would have losse this for sure. I really should have seen the Commander-Thing connection, but until Darkbane contacted me I wasn't paying all that much attention to this game. Whn I started paying it, I got infected So yes, Things had REALLY hard work. Recruitments or no, if everything urned out just a little different, Grunts would win this for sure. As things stand, I'm quite proud of this win. But only one autolynch less and things would came out totally different. One autolynch less and I'd got killed next day and Things would losse. It was a close one, by any standard.

[Fleeing Coward]

Guess so, the very first comment I made was regarding the potential of Things been near unstoppable in the right hands. This game I had absolutely no idea what's going on so I can't really comment much but it does seem that there was quite a few freak accidents that turned the game into an interesting one.

After reading through your post, I'd also agree that the assassin role needs to be balanced. As it is, the assassin really does have no chance of winning yet at the same time have all the power to turn the game one way or the other.

As for balance for Thing 2.0, the easiest way i can think of to balance things is to either have 3 Things with 2 recruitment each or 4 Things with 1 recruitment each starting the game in contact with each other and the Traitor. This way, they don't have as many recruitments to work with but in exchange, have a ready formed network.
For the assassin, the only thing I can think of is get rid to of the commander and have him scry as a grunt although I guess that would sort of ruin the psychic nine concept.

[FoE]

Overall, I think this game went very well. I made some mistakes, but it wasn't bad for a first time out.

Though I hoped it would last a few more days, the game more or less unfolded the way I envisioned, with the exception of the Commander's infection right off the bat. That taught me a valuable lesson about the difference between theory and practice: no game exists in a box. Ramebriz chose to infect Haruki-kun on the first round because he knew him in real life, not for any strategic reasons. I had hoped for the Commander to play a much bigger role in the game.

There's been some comments that the Things had to rely on their wits in order to win. Well, isn't that what the Wolves (Things) are supposed to do? I'm glad that there was so much underhanded trickery and deceit in my game. I sincerely hope that this game has scarred many of you for life and fostered a deep sense of distrust of others.

Understand that I had to put in a certain amount of safeguards in place against the Things winning. The Assassin had the kill ability to offer a random element of danger to both sides. But you're right, it would have been immensely difficult for her to win. And I realized there's an inherent danger in relying on one character for your kills. If, for example, KerfuffleMach had been the Assassin, no one would have been killed.

So there will be a Thing 2? Maybe, but probably not. At least, not for a while. For one, I think people prefer lighthearted Werewolf games to serious ones, and I'm not sure where the story would go from here. And yes, I do look at these games as telling a story to some extent, which is the reason for my excessive narration.

If nothing else, I think I furthered the science of Werewolf games () with my game, and I managed to hold the interest of the vast majority of players.

Thanks for playing, everybody.

[Freshmeat]

There's been some comments that the Things had to rely on their wits in order to win. Well, isn't that what the Wolves (Things) are supposed to do? I'm glad that there was so much underhanded trickery and deceit in my game. I sincerely hope that this game has scarred many of you for life and fostered a deep sense of distrust of others.

In this regard, I'd like to mention that I actually enjoyed this game precisely because we couldn't just kill whoever was in our way, but had to think of other solutions instead.
At one point, we were actually considering to have Vavaara kill off one of the Twins, and then secretly manipulate the both of them into killing eachother on the night thereafter, thus denying the assassin the chance to potentially spill everything she knew if we would have stuck with a 'get the assassin lynched' plan instead.

And yes, I do look at these games as telling a story to some extent, which is the reason for my excessive narration.

And I liked those gloomy narrations. The same applies to those made by Vavaara.

[Mordokai]

At one point, we were actually considering to have Vavaara kill off one of the Twins, and then secretly manipulate the both of them into killing eachother on the night thereafter, thus denying the assassin the chance to potentially spill everything she knew if we would have stuck with a 'get the assassin lynched' plan instead.

You wouldn't believe how good that option looked to me. However, after talking it over with others we decided it's just too risky. Still, the idea had potentional. But so close to the end, I just didn't dare risking.

And I liked those gloomy narrations. The same applies to those made by Vavaara.

The same hold true for me. I really need to get myself the movie, so I can see what we've unleashed upon the world

[FoE]

Well, thanks for the compliments. Regarding my narration, I'll note that I actually tried to incorporate scenes and dialogue from the Thing. Vavaara can back me up on that one. The scene where Doseki's severed head sprouted legs and started walking around? Happened in the movie, along with Dr. Bath's surprised reaction: "You gotta be ****ing kidding me." Incidentally, the character who said that in the movie also turned out to be a Thing.

I should offer some thanks to Vavaara, who I guess was an unofficial co-narrator. She actually wrote a few scenes for herself, and though I edited them a bit, I was more than happy to include them.

Incidentally, if anyone's wondering, I also did a fair bit of writing behind the scenes, as many people who received notices that they were Infected can testify. I didn't do it for everybody due to time constraints, but there was a lot of drama happening behind the scenes.

[Haruki-kun]

Though I hoped it would last a few more days, the game more or less unfolded the way I envisioned, with the exception of the Commander's infection right off the bat. That taught me a valuable lesson about the difference between theory and practice: no game exists in a box. Ramebriz chose to infect Haruki-kun on the first round because he knew him in real life, not for any strategic reasons. I had hoped for the Commander to play a much bigger role in the game.

To be honest, I wanted to KILL HIM. First time I have a really cool role and it blew up overnight.

But it didn't turn out so bad for me in the end, even though I barely did anything to help the cause.

[Ominous]

I am absolutely shocked that the things won. I thought there was no way for us to win. Good lord, all it took was one seer to figure out who the Assassin was, make a public claim, and get everyone to lynch the assassin. Game. Set. Match.

[Vavaara]

Whoo, my narration was helpful!

In all honesty, I wasn't really playing to win. I was just having fun and creating as much chaos as I could. And, I heartily offer my assistance in any future WW endeavors of yours, FoE. I can completely and honestly say this is the most fun I have EVER had in a Werewolf game (not offense to any other games I have completed).

My tactics were just a bouncing game, going from one faction to another whenever it suited me. I actually escaped an early lynch because I revealed myself to Mordokai, causing him to change his point. After I saw the infections, I suspected something was up when Mordokai directed me towards 2 humans, but when the bandwagon started I knew he had been infected.

Additionally, I borrowed the idea of the blue flames and quotations from Hellboy, which has one of the few well-done cases of Pyrokinesis I have seen in my experience.

[banjo1985]

Methinks my vote change was too late

Congratumalations Mordokai and the other Things, you sure had me fooled!

Thanks to FoE for a good game. I too think there may be a few balance issues to be ironed out, but at the same time I think the Things put in far more effort than the Grunts in terms of planning, so I don't begrudge them their win.

[Mordokai]

Sorry man, I didn't enjoy it But at the same time it was an enormous pleasure to sway the votes around and make everybody think I'm still human I really had fun doing this, even if I was just waiting for somebody to call a Thing on me. At this point, I'd like to congratulate Rogue. She found me out the day after I was infected, but luckily she didn't believe herself enought to get me killed

God, looking back, I really had fun at this. Too bad there won't be another iteration of it. With some balance, it would be GREAT!

[Ranna]

I really liked this game it was very immersive for a forum game me thinks, even if I did have to be a baddie and the behind the scene narrations were also absolutley fab I really really enjoyed them...

[Mordokai]

*kisses Ranna*

Thanks for transforming me honey I don't hate you as much after our win

[DemonicAngel]

I knew Mordokai was a thing, but no, why would anyone listen to me? [/rant
good game guys, my first werewolf game ever.. couldn't you at least transform me?!

[Vavaara]

Well, I breifly considered torching you, if that's any consolation. Then I went after Fullbladder instead.

I must have beginners luck, because I got those two early Things on my own, no infection-deaths (as far as I know). This was my first night-kill role, so I was just having fun with it.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Yes. Killed in the prime of life by a lucky guess. Still, I managed to pass on my Conversions to Dr. Bath, so I don't think it was that bad. He probably used them better than I. Go Things! My death was not in vain!

[Shadowcaller]

This was my first real WW game and I really liked it.
Personaly I kind of like the horror WW games since well I like to play serious characters.
The rules where quite balanced but I could make out some unbalanced things but otherwise it was good.
This game have inspired me to make my own WW game called:
Tribes of Eradarn: The shadow within
(I could work a bit on that titel)
All the rules are in my head (and on papper) and I will soon wirite them down on the WW game thread.

[Darkbane]

Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Vavaara, I'm curious: did you know I was a telepath when you torched me? (Fun fact: I actually scried you that same night, so FoE told me you were the assassin as well as a psychic.)

[Freshmeat]

Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Vavaara, I'm curious: did you know I was a telepath when you torched me? (Fun fact: I actually scried you that same night, so FoE told me you were the assassin as well as a psychic.)

I told her you were, so yes, she did.

[Darkbane]

^Once you PM'd me, I scried you (thanks for doing that right before the night phase, although I guess that was on purpose--if I didn't respond, I was likely to be a telepath) and saw you were a Thing. However, I figured you were either previously the Traitor or were in contact with the Traitor, and told Mordokai the same thing. I never thought the Commander had been infected.