Why Parson isn't Heir and will never be...

[MattR]

1) Stanley paid out for the 'Perfect Warlord' not Perfect Heir.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html

2) Stanley is convinced he's 'Holy' and seems to think he has a divine right to rule and win in the longrun. He's never going to consider that he might die and need replacing.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0032.html

3) IF Stanley did betray King Saline...he wouldnt risk making another warlord heir because it would just give them the incentive to plot against him.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0087.html

[El_Chupacabra]

1) Stanley paid out for the 'Perfect Warlord' not Perfect Heir.

I believe you have it fundamentally correct. I'd be amazed if Parson did inherit GK if Stanley fell. However, to play Devil's Advocate, there is one caveat here.

The Summoning spell was cast by Wanda, who was qualified, but not ideal, for the job. It did require focus on what would be considered the 'Perfect Warlord' for their scenario, which was a challenge for Wanda -- what with Stanley interjecting ideals that were inconsistent with what she wanted. In addition, it's entirely possible that she had a thought at some point that the 'Perfect Warlord' would also have some loyalty to herself. I suspect that she would survive GK much like Faq; however, it might have occurred to her during the casting that an Heir would increase her odds of survival, even if she didn't deliberately 'program' that into the casting.

We don't know how the spell was influenced, whether it took her literally on every desired stat, etc. Since we don't know how much her side thoughts influenced the design of Parson's stats, it is still an unknown factor here.

I'd still be surprised if this plot twist occurred. But it's not entirely infeasible that Parson feels a 'stirring in the force' or whatever, as if one rather inept voice cried out and was suddenly silenced, then have Wanda realize she had accidentally coded for an Heir loyal to her -- or better yet, have her smile her smug smile, knowing a backup plan worked and now she had another Leader wrapped around her finger. Or so she thinks... [cue fade to black]

One last thought... Again, we don't know how the spell analyzes the summon request. While Stanley may consider the 'Perfect Warlord' loyal to him only, the spell may have interpreted the request as the 'Perfect Warlord' for the Plaid Tribe, with a loyalty affinity for Stanley as long as Stanley lives. Again, we're talking long shots here.

[MattR]

While it IS possible that he was accidentally or indeed deliberately made heir by Wanda's casting of the spell... it would seem a little too deux ex machina to give that as an explanation for his... heirdom?... if he were to suddenly become leader of the GK faction.

[MattR]

* repeat post *

[Nowell]

The thing is, even IF parson was made heir, you'd still have to realize that Stanley fell, meaning the arkenhammer is in enemy hands now, and so are the dwagons. GK Can't handle an attack with those added forces.

[slayerx]

The thing is, even IF parson was made heir, you'd still have to realize that Stanley fell, meaning the arkenhammer is in enemy hands now, and so are the dwagons. GK Can't handle an attack with those added forces.

Actually just the hammer... the dwagon taming ability is the attuned ability of the hammer... the only way the hammer could tame the dwagons is if the hammer could attune to someone on the allied side; which i doubt... most it may be able to do is heaving lightning... or maybe just smash things...

[SteveMB]

The Summoning spell was cast by Wanda, who was qualified, but not ideal, for the job. It did require focus on what would be considered the 'Perfect Warlord' for their scenario, which was a challenge for Wanda -- what with Stanley interjecting ideals that were inconsistent with what she wanted. In addition, it's entirely possible that she had a thought at some point that the 'Perfect Warlord' would also have some loyalty to herself. I suspect that she would survive GK much like Faq; however, it might have occurred to her during the casting that an Heir would increase her odds of survival, even if she didn't deliberately 'program' that into the casting.

It's an interesting "Devil's Advocate" theory, but quite a ways out in left field -- it requires a way to create a "heir" without the knowledge (much less approval) of the ruler, which would be a pretty glaring subversion of a key point of the game/world system.

[Arkenputtyknife]

The thing is, even IF parson was made heir, you'd still have to realize that Stanley fell, meaning the arkenhammer is in enemy hands now, and so are the dwagons. GK Can't handle an attack with those added forces.

If Stanley fell, there would be no remaining reason for the Alliance to continue attacking GK, unless Parson deliberately stirred things up.

[raphfrk]

One option would be for Parson to save Stanley's life, by stopping Jillian from killing him after their battle.

For example, if he somehow managed to capture Ansom, he could trade him for Stanley (and presumably get to keep the hammer).

In theory, out of a combination of gratitude and the fact that he faced near death, he might designate an heir.

Also, sometimes there are strategic reasons for designating an heir. It makes the King/overlord less of a tempting target. Currently, Stanley is like the king on a chess board, all the alliance has to do is kill him and they win automatically.

If he had a designated heir, then the benefit from killing him is reduced as the only effect is killing him as a unit. In fact, if Parson was heir, it might actually be a bad idea for the alliance to kill Stanley as it would improve the quality of the leadership against them.

However, he would need to be sure that Parson wouldn't betray him (as he may have betrayed Saline). That would be another benefit of Parson saving him, it would demonstrate loyalty.

In fact, there is a possible sequence which would almost require Parson to be made heir. If Parson held Ansom and tries to trade him for Stanley's life, Jillian could point out that if they kill Stanley, Paron will disband and thus won't be able to carry out his threat. This means that Stanley would be forced to make Parson (or maybe Wanda) heir.

Actually, making Wanda heir would be interesting if she stayed comatose, Parson would then become de-facto overlord, but maybe not have access to some overlord functions (like setting the city's build queue).

Another question is what happens to loyalty thinkamancy when a leader dies. Does the new leader have to remain loyal to what the old leader wanted. They probably don't. If Stanley reacted by making Wanda heir, Jillian could still kill him and then Wanda could order Ansom's release for peace.

In a situation like that, actual loyality is required.

[SteveMB]

On the one hand, all those reasons for designating a heir don't seem consistent with Stanley's belief that he is specially chosen by the Titans for some great destiny. On the other hand, people have a talent for doublethink, and fanatics tend to be especially so.

On the gripping hand, we know that infantry units can be promoted to warlord in the capital (emphasis added), and it hardly seems likely that the similar but more important function of designating a heir would be less restrictive in that regard.

[raphfrk]

On the one hand, all those reasons for designating a heir don't seem consistent with Stanley's belief that he is specially chosen by the Titans for some great destiny.

If he assumes that he isn't going to die anyway, then designating an heir can only have benefits. It wouldn't matter if the heir was loyal as the heir would never be needed.

[MattR]

They don't have a problem with GK as a faction, just with Stanley. Naming an heir might not draw heat because they dont initially hate the heir... also it would need to be made public to have any effect at all and why would Ansom or anyone else believe Stanley if he suddenly says 'That guy's my heir, kill him instead!'.

If Parson isn't named heir he has no reason to risk plotting against the guy that can 'end him with a thought'. If he was named heir he might take the chance of croaking Stanley to get his freedom. Even if Stanley doesnt think he can die, i dont think he wants his 'Perfect Warlord' diverted into plotting when he should be planning how to win a war. (This is all moot now, he thinks Parson is useless and doesnt care if he lives or dies.)

As far as naming Wanda heir, the same reasoning as above applies. Also if she was ever going to be named heir it would have been when she was in Stanley's favor... not out of it.

!thought!

We can all agree that Stanley lacks any kind of tactical skill... so it could have been King Saline who planned where troops (Stanley included) would be deployed.
IF that was the case, depriving a side of its tactical mind would make alot of sense... especially if you had a grudge against that person for doing something you thought was wrong.

Being leader of a faction seems to require a certain amount of cunning and bloodthirstyness/callousness. Ansom's king must have had as big a problem as Ansom with Stanley becoming Overlord to OK the attack... would he have been as angry about Stanley being named heir?

Just because Ansom is all sweetness and light doesnt mean his own 'Overlord' is.

[SteveMB]

We can all agree that Stanley lacks any kind of tactical skill... so it could have been King Saline who planned where troops (Stanley included) would be deployed.

Actually, Stanley's problem seems to be with grand strategy, not tactics -- judging from Sizemore's account, he did quite well at the level of individual battles. (This isn't just a matter of having a boopload of dwagons. First, he was promoted to warlord before he found the Arkenhammer. Second, the side with superior firepower can still lose if the other side outwits them.)

That said, King Saline was in charge of overall deployments and suchlike (though Stanley might have had considerable influence) during his reign.

Being leader of a faction seems to require a certain amount of cunning and bloodthirstyness/callousness. Ansom's king must have had as big a problem as Ansom with Stanley becoming Overlord to OK the attack... would he have been as angry about Stanley being named heir?

Just because Ansom is all sweetness and light doesnt mean his own 'Overlord' is.

How much Ansom is "all sweetness and light" is debatable. We really have nothing to go on as to whether King Slately shares Ansom's view of non-noble Overlords or whether he approved the war for other reasons of his own.

[MattR]

Sizemore's account doesn't say that Stanley was promoted for being any better in battle then anyone else. Infact its hard to see how any piker can distinguish themselves from all the others when all they can do is follow orders. As far as we know he could have just been promoted at random... or maybe stats are random per individual unit and he had the highest leadership bonus out of them all at the time.

Plans usually last until contact with the enemy i.e. when its down to the actual fight whoevers strongest will win.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0075.html

They were more powerful, what kind of tactics could have won that fight for Parson's side?

Even in the page link you provided, check the panel which shows Stanley attacking.. look at what it is hes attacking. Marbits. Infact, 1 unarmed marbit.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0087.html

As far as we know every engagement Stanley has ever won was planned by someone else and backed up by both dwagons and other ground forces. Or was against an enemy that wouldnt cause him any difficulty.

When given the choice ANYONE will attack a weaker opponent over a stronger one. With the mobility of dwagons on his side i can't see Stanley attacking anything on his own he isnt certain to beat. Likewise i can't see Saline sending Stanley on a suicide mission against a more powerful enemy with the potential of losing the hammer and its dwagons.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html

Ever since Stanley became Overlord he's been losing cities and forces. It seems like since Saline was croaked he's been outwitted at every turn.

I'm not sure i meant "all sweetness and light" ... i dunno, Ansom strieks me as paladineque, full of noble ideals. He seems like the type of person who will throw himself wholeheartedly into a fight he feels is just ... i cant see him being sneaky. But youre right, its debatable, he could develope in a different direction from what weve seen or have hidden sly sides to his character.