On Starting A New Side

[SteveMB]

In Klog entry 9, Parson comments:

Royalty is different... Cities ruled by royals pop nobles (and more royals). Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides.

That sounds like splitting off a new side is specific to royal-ruled sides. However, later, after Jillian tells Ansom that the cities of Faq are still out there, but not rebuilt, he surmises "He's [Stanley's] going there to start a new side!", and Jillian implicitly concurs. That indicates that you don't need to be royal to split off into a new side: Ansom of all people wouldn't attribute to a commoner -- and certainly not to Stanley the (sorta) Regicide -- an ability that is possessed only by royals.

It's not exactly a contradiction, but it is an oddity. However, it's an easy one to smooth over: new sides are pretty much always started by royals in practice, even though Overlords as well as Kings are capable of it. Thus, Parson got the impression (from the history books) that splitting was a royal-empire thing, even though it's actually an any-empire thing.

As to why that should be... perhaps splitting off empires occasionally is considered part of Proper Royal Rulership[tm]. Or perhaps (not unlike the real world) heirs can get... restive... if they don't eventually succeed to the old realm or get a new one of their own or find something else to do (such as organize a crusade against an Overlord who has no business being one, perhaps).

[The_Alec]

But remember that Stanly is no longer just a commoner. He was promoted to Heir Designate which allowed him to keep the Gobwin Knob side alive when Saline croaked. It could be that getting this special rank allows a commoner to both start new sides and lead existing sides, things that would normally be restricted to royals.

What I want to know is if the leader of a side decides to leave and start a new side, what happens to the units on the old side if there is no heir? Do they get disbanded?

[The Old Hack]

In Klog entry 9, Parson comments:
It's not exactly a contradiction, but it is an oddity. However, it's an easy one to smooth over: new sides are pretty much always started by royals in practice, even though Overlords as well as Kings are capable of it. Thus, Parson got the impression (from the history books) that splitting was a royal-empire thing, even though it's actually an any-empire thing.

The problem with these books is that while they tell the story, they rarely tell the whole story in one go. This goes for the real world as well as for Erfworld, actually. I think it is fairly safe to assume that whenever the Erf books do not explicitly state that only in such a case does such-and-such a situation apply, there may well be more to the story than the book or source implies.

As to why that should be... perhaps splitting off empires occasionally is considered part of Proper Royal Rulership[tm]. Or perhaps (not unlike the real world) heirs can get... restive... if they don't eventually succeed to the old realm or get a new one of their own or find something else to do (such as organize a crusade against an Overlord who has no business being one, perhaps).

You may have hit on something important here. Banhammer did not order an Heir popped until he thought Faq was in danger, as shown here. Why not? Perhaps Heirs have an inherent tendency to become restive without something for them to do? Jillian certainly didn't seem inclined to stay home and enjoy life -- though admittedly her relationship with Banhammer wasn't exactly what could be called congenial.

[Uncle Festy]

Maybe heirs aren't implicitly loyal to the person they're heir to?
In other words, if an heir is popped, they don't have loyalty (or much of it, anyways). This seems to match up with Jillian's constant disagreements with her father. So, creating an heir is a risky move, because they don't have to listen to the commands of the side. That's why they can make new sides, or become rulers themselves - they are granted free will!

[SteveMB]

Maybe heirs aren't implicitly loyal to the person they're heir to?
In other words, if an heir is popped, they don't have loyalty (or much of it, anyways). This seems to match up with Jillian's constant disagreements with her father. So, creating an heir is a risky move, because they don't have to listen to the commands of the side. That's why they can make new sides, or become rulers themselves - they are granted free will!

Hmmmm... that has interesting implications, given that Parson is an outsider who seems to have the same free will he had back home....

[Generalissimus]

Hmmmm... that has interesting implications, given that Parson is an outsider who seems to have the same free will he had back home....

I think not only Parson, but all the characters (x-mancers, soldiers, warlords...) are free-willed, only magically compelled to follow orders. This, and the possibility of being disbanded keep them in line.

[Tignok]

Maybe heirs aren't implicitly loyal to the person they're heir to?
In other words, if an heir is popped, they don't have loyalty (or much of it, anyways). This seems to match up with Jillian's constant disagreements with her father.

I think it would be wrong to assume Jillian wasn't loyal to her father, she certainly disliked him, and stayed away from FAQ as much as she could, but we were never lead to believe she wanted to start a new side.

An actual counterpoint would be Ansom. He's got stereotypical princely loyalty practically oozing out of him.

Its true, the act of being heir doesn't necessarily preclude loyalty, i.e. Stanly, I'm more of the mind that it actually does not change the stat at all.

[Kaolix]

Royalty is different... Cities ruled by royals pop nobles (and more royals). Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides.

Maybe its just me, but I don't read that as being the same as what Stanley is planning to do.

Stanley is going to CREATE a new side from a ruined city, start from scratch as it were.

The 'Royal Empires splitting into new sides' thing sounds to me more like a civil war fission kinda thing - a single nation declaring (or attempting to declare) independence from their previous rulers, I.e. a noble/royal in charge of a particular region within the empire declares it a sovereign nation, rather than what I believe Stanley is doing, which is more akin to colonisation.

just my 2c.

[Darkness_Elemen]

Agreed. My interpretation is that both Stanley and Ansom are assuming that Gobwin Knob will have fallen by the time Stanley reaches FAQ, converting Stanley into a sideless warlord, similar to Jillian.

In that case when he reaches FAQ, it will be as a sideless warlord creating a new side, rather than as an Overlord expanding his side.

[kreszantas]

well that just got thrown out the window by the new 103

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

don't cheer too soon about that.

There's still a score or two of dwagons with him and he has the arkenhhammer. it'll be a tough fight.