103 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 93

[Ilphros]

My own theory... That Wanda's spell has in fact worked in REVERSE. The largest tactical error made by Parson's side was due to misplaced knowledge of the spell, and Ansom's tactics seem to have gone down a notch (from their not-lofty standards before) since Wanda's been knocked out. The reason Wanda is unconscious is because SHE was straining to break free and warn Parson!

So... TFHA worthy?

[Laurentio]

They're not gaining a turn, they're just moving up the turn order. It may be they gain a turn relative to Stanley, but that is all.

It's not very abusive. Actually, Gillian won't take a second turn, but just "initiative" against Stanley.

The Coalition turn is after Stanley's, baceuse the leader side is Jetstone. So, on turn 1, we have:
- Stanley
- Coalition.

At the end of the Coalition turn, Gillian's stack will leave Coalition and will alliance under Transylvito, whose turn is before Stanley's. But they WON'T move again during turn 1.

Just, on Turn 2:
- Transylvito
- Stanley
- Coalition

So, this exploit is just to get a running start on Stanley, but won't allow to really move one more. Gillian can't re-join the Coalition at the end of her turn to get an addictional move during Coalition turn.

Useful, but still not a big cheat.

(Yes, I used Copy&Paste)

Laurentio

[rosebud]

Ansom is staying with the ground troops, and is acting as bait to keep them thinking that he's still going to attack Gobwin Knob, as Ansom assumes that Parson is loyal to Stanley.

The order "to divide the spoils" rather than "to complete the conquest and divide the spoils" suggests otherwise. He is planning an assault.

Ansom is bait, and not in a great position. It's possible that he could get killed going through with the feint. He knows that if he gets Stanley, then it's game over. It'll be interesting to see what happens...

As I remarked above, he seems to be planning to attack. And I don't see the upside of croaking Ansom. While he might get killed, the pliers is Stanley's goal. Maximizing his position would presumably be Parsons, and we don't know (and perhaps neither does he) know what he wants in the short versus long terms. What to do with Ansom as prisoner is not a simple decision.

Ansom has divided his army, and removed at least two factions from it: Charlescomm and Transylvito.

Short term. What happens to GK if Stanley enters the past tense, though? Who is the heir and will the troops still get upkeep?

Ansom is seriously pissed. Anger is just a powerful an ally as it is an enemy.

I'm not seeing/understanding either of those points. True, Ansom is not happy, but I fail to see how sending a death mission to Stanley is an action taken out of anger. By allowing them to break the alliance, he is showing that fulfilling the mission is more important than his rule. And in doing so, they get an extra turn before GK gets to move.

Now if only Stanley doesn't get croaked and/or comeback to screw with Parson during the battle, Ansom might just get his ass handed to him.

I see how he could get pummeled, but I don't see where his ass is on the line. Parson seems to be more defensive than offensive at the moment due to limited forces.

[rosebud]

Ack. Lots of threads. Anyhow, before I finish pages 2-4, I wanted to posit a possibility in the event Stanley is croaked.

Many people claim that everyone or nearly everyone at GK would be disbanded if Stanley (the Warlord with no heir) is croaked.

However, we already know there is a heir. A legitimate heir whose kingdom was stolen, but one that she can still claim. Jillian. If Jillian claims her Kingdom after croaking Stanley, is all well and does Parson become Chief Warlord under Jillian?

Also, does this then place Ansom's forces attacking Jillian's?

Anyhow, I'm not claiming Stanley will be croaked. I'm just a bit tired of the needless viewpoint that such an event would be the end of GK's other characters.

[rosebud]

Ansom snapping definitely got him to doing stupid things.

What is stupid about it? He's given up part of his command (based on tactics, not pride). Pride and suspicion earlier made him not pursue Stanley when his side could have gotten him more easily.

What I really want to know is, what are the "additional Charlescomm forces". More archons, or potentially another type of unit altogether?

Michael J. Fox in a DeLorean?

Stanley's incredibly arrogant, but he's shown an ability to be clever when he wants to be.

Curiously, I tend to agree.

At this point, I expect the alliance to collapse. A lot of the sides joined up expecting a really easy fight. Ansom's Military Genius: (snip)

You forgot "0. Conquered ten of Stanley's eleven cities." Simple assumptions of plot have not been successful at predicting the future here.

Conquering a city is ALWAYS a good think to do in a strategic game.

Unless the cost of the attempt is too high, which Parson is trying to make the case. But I otherwise like what you've said.

Vinny: "We're gonna have a two-cask talk when we meet again."

As others have mentioned, I thought of liquor when he said that. Casket would be more likely to be the other kind.

Sending Zamussels after Stanley was smart, as it uses her motivations and her history to their greatest effect. Taking Charlie's archons out of the siege was also reasonable, as it removes another wild card from the mix. Sending Vinnie off... no way. That is the guy who has been first at every turn to see through Parson's moves and has always been the voice of reason.

I don't agree on the second and third points if the goal is to end Stanley. Which it is. Which is why he did it. But I agree Ansom can be at a loss when he lacks the balance and advice that Vinnie provided. Still, Ansom has a lot of meat left to grind, so he could hold out a few turns, and it would be nice to see Team Parson doing well for more than a half turn for a change. (Doing well for a mere half turn would be rather a downer, but we'll see what happens, I guess.)

(irrational rant commences) *sigh* Jillian always manages to disappoint me.

You are missing the Grease song reference. Have you seen the film or the play?

Ansom is obviously a loser, and it's painful to see her hug him after she *just* watched him proclaim his thoughts about nobility versus non-nobles.

He sucked it up and put her in charge. It's after that that she thanked him and hugged him. Is that still painful to watch?

[Lolindir]

I might not be the first to bring this up, but I say it anyway, since I don't want to read the whole thread right now:


Imagine this scenario:

- Jillian and co catch up with Stanley
- Stanley is plondering 'bout the foolamancer's name
- Jillian engages combat with the dwagons
- In the middle of the fight, she sees the Foolamancer from FAQ and recognises him, "What the Boop! <Foolamander's name>, what are you doing here.
- Foolamancer gets better and knows how to veil again.
- Stanley is like "Hey, thanks chick! You, nitwit, veil us please!", and get veiled again, along with the dwagons!

It might just be... it might just be...

[SteveMB]

I might not be the first to bring this up, but I say it anyway, since I don't want to read the whole thread right now:


Imagine this scenario:

- Jillian and co catch up with Stanley
- Stanley is plondering 'bout the foolamancer's name
- Jillian engages combat with the dwagons
- In the middle of the fight, she sees the Foolamancer from FAQ and recognises him, "What the Boop! <Foolamander's name>, what are you doing here.
- Foolamancer gets better and knows how to veil again.
- Stanley is like "Hey, thanks chick! You, nitwit, veil us please!", and get veiled again, along with the dwagons!

It might just be... it might just be...

No, it can't. The veil can't be cast during the enemy's turn.

That said, Stanley's reaction to having the Foolamancer back online after it's too late to do him any good would be amusing....

[Laurentio]

However, we already know there is a heir. A legitimate heir whose kingdom was stolen, but one that she can still claim. Jillian. If Jillian claims her Kingdom after croaking Stanley, is all well and does Parson become Chief Warlord under Jillian?

No.

FOR "Stanley" = "croaked" and "Parson" = "Barbarian"
IF "Jillian's Side" = "on"
THEN print "Parson"
> Barbarian

There is no reason for Barbarian units to be incorporated in new sides just because the new leader croaked the previous leader. Even if, could be. We don't know the rules, isn't it?

You croaked the Tool. You get 150'000 S., 3 wizard and 1 Overlord. You found a The Arkenhammer
End turn?

Laurentio

[Twisted Otaku]

Jami says they are: Unipegataurs.

I know, what he says they are but I like the earth angels idea better, I also know that it's not my call, somehow I think I may have been the only person who had that song pop into their head the moment they saw them...

[Arkenputtyknife]

Many people claim that everyone or nearly everyone at GK would be disbanded if Stanley (the Warlord with no heir) is croaked.

However, we already know there is a heir. A legitimate heir whose kingdom was stolen, but one that she can still claim. Jillian. If Jillian claims her Kingdom after croaking Stanley, is all well and does Parson become Chief Warlord under Jillian?

Won't happen, because Jillian isn't the heir to GK. She's the heir to Faq.

[Rollin]

Many people claim that everyone or nearly everyone at GK would be disbanded if Stanley (the Warlord with no heir) is croaked.

However, we already know there is a heir. A legitimate heir whose kingdom was stolen, but one that she can still claim. Jillian. If Jillian claims her Kingdom after croaking Stanley, is all well and does Parson become Chief Warlord under Jillian?

Won't happen, because Jillian isn't the heir to GK. She's the heir to Faq.

Ah, but what if Stanley manages to reach Faq, and makes it his capital (and thus Parson's), before Jillian croaks him? Then it could play out exactly that way. Depending on what the rules are, of course.

[fendrin]

You croaked the Tool. You get 150'000 S., 3 wizard and 1 Overlord. You found a The Arkenhammer
End turn?

You Rock.

[slayerx]

No, it can't. The veil can't be cast during the enemy's turn.

That said, Stanley's reaction to having the Foolamancer back online after it's too late to do him any good would be amusing....

Well, the foolamancer could still be of use... i would imagine that they can do more then create a veil to hide units; they would likely have function in combat as well... such as creating a bunch of illusionary dwagons and stanelys so that they don't know what to hit... or how about making the unapegatuars look like dwagons? a foolamancer could cause mass confusion amongst their ranks... the foolamancer may very well be the very factor that turns the tide of battle into Stanely's favor... If a defending force is able to retreat from the battlefield, then at the very least then that confusion could provide the cover Stanely needs to retreat.... and if Jillian is unable to pursue after Stanely has escaped then on his turn he will high tail it out of there and veil himself to avoid another encounter.

Y'know what i just thought of... Perhaps Stanely isn't going to FAQ, not yet anyway... The arkenhammer is good at taming Dwagons which means they may be produced naturally outside of gobwinknob... Stanely could potentially be going to a Dwagons nest to bolster his forces before he heads to Faq to start a new side. If this is what Stanely was up to then the lucky thing for him is that Jillian may not find him despite have two turns to move since she will be heading towards Faq and Stanely is taking a detour... She will still head him off, but he may have many more Dwagons when she is able to make her attack; and a possible veil if he gets the foolamancer up and running

[Arkenputtyknife]

Ah, but what if Stanley manages to reach Faq, and makes it his capital (and thus Parson's), before Jillian croaks him? Then it could play out exactly that way. Depending on what the rules are, of course.

It could work out that way, but it seems very unlikely to me. The way I see it:

1. Jillian is properly considered the heir of Banhammer, not of Faq. She would have inherited Faq because it was Banhammer's. It isn't any more.
2. Jillian is not Stanley's heir and therefore would not inherit the city from him if he fell.
3. It's not clear what happens to the outlying cities when the capital falls along with the leader. Maybe all cities on that side automatically go over to the victor, but it seems more likely that they'd become disbanded or unallied and would have to be taken separately
4. Parson isn't in Faq, so it's more likely he'd be disbanded or unallied when Stanley fell.

At the end of it all, too many unknowns and too many assumptions. I'm expecting that even in that scenario, Parson and company would still be expected to disband or become unallied. He would become Jillian's only if he were in the city she conquered. Still, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out in the comic.

Recall also that Stanley told Parson and company that GK would continue to support them as long as it stood. He didn't bring his own survival into the equation. That might mean that Parson's survival depends on the city, not on Stanley; or it might mean that Stanley is so full of himself that being croaked is inconceivable to him.

[stm177]

I wonder what the motive was for destroying Faq, and how did Stanley know it was there? Was he ordered to destroy it by Saline IV? Did he want to do it on his own, so he'd be away from the city during the coup? Did some faction hire Saline IV to destroy Faq?

[SteveMB]

I wonder what the motive was for destroying Faq, and how did Stanley know it was there? Was he ordered to destroy it by Saline IV? Did he want to do it on his own, so he'd be away from the city during the coup? Did some faction hire Saline IV to destroy Faq?

Hmmm... it's implied that his attacks on various sides since coming to power are the result of his quest (i.e. he thought they had Arkentools and weren't handing them over as per the Titans' will); however, we don't know what Saline IV's motivations were back when he was in charge. It could just something that fits the "war is the natural state of things in Erfworld" impression I get.

[The_JJ]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but...
Is it just me that thinks the 'meeting with additional CharlieCom forces,' the 'brake the alliance' and the Thinkagram are all related?

I'm getting ready to kiss Jillian (antagonist in my book. A tragic one, but still an antagonist, mostly for falling for Prince Charming. Maybe she could be saved for Wanda's sake but... meh) and *gulp* Vinny goodbye.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that no writer would actually kill off charactors that they sunk so much time and development into, but their allies might as well get their red shirts out now. I think Jillian is going to be giving Vinny the low down on Gobwin Knob's dungeon slop soon.

[Freederick]

Well, as the "we'll meet and share a drink when all this is over" talk seems to foreshadow, either Ansom or Vinny probably won't make it back to base this time. My bet is that it is Ansom who buys the farm, while Jillian and Vinny are left to avenge him. It works out better dramatically this way.

[slayerx]

I'm getting ready to kiss Jillian and *gulp* Vinny goodbye.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that no writer would actually kill off charactors that they sunk so much time and development into, but their allies might as well get their red shirts out now. I think Jillian is going to be giving Vinny the low down on Gobwin Knob's dungeon slop soon.

Well, i wouldn't bet on Jillian... i don't see her dying, i think there's more to be done with her... Vinnie on the other hand, i could see. Just had it out with Ansom, parting on relatively bad terms, wouldn't surprise me if they never do get to have that two cask talk

And not sure what you mean by "no writer would kill off a well developed character"... writers kill off their characters all the time, including well developed characters... Frankly, i think a poor writing practice is getting so attached to your characters that your unwilling to kill off your characters; the worse of these is when the character survives in a way that was impossible given what they just went though (like surviving a huge explosion or something)... we all gotta go sometime and not every character should have a plot shield to protect them... death can be a very powerful and moving element in a story and can do wonders for the further development of other characters. Heh, a character death done well can be the very thing that raises the character to legendary status

[Laurentio]

Actually, I'm fairly certain that no writer would actually kill off charactors that they sunk so much time and development into, but their allies might as well get their red shirts out now. I think Jillian is going to be giving Vinny the low down on Gobwin Knob's dungeon slop soon.

While Vinny is not a Red Shirt, I fear that he could at best be considered a Mauve Shirt. And Mauve Shirt are the first to die when you are going to give the plot some shock.
Considering the climax building, Vinny COULD die. And I would resent of it, because I really like him. Jillian is protected by the fact that is a bisessual love-craving triple-agent with a vengeance on the road (and, token barbarian). She's not a character, she is a whole book on her own.

Laurentio

[DeathQuaker]

You are missing the Grease song reference. Have you seen the film or the play?

No, hon, not missing the reference.

I just would have preferred to see her telling Ansom that he "Better shape up."

He sucked it up and put her in charge. It's after that that she thanked him and hugged him. Is that still painful to watch?

Obviously, or I wouldn't have complained to begin with.

It will continue to be painful for me until I see Jillian skewer the little jerk on her big giant sword, at which point, my heart will be sated.

You may feel free to disagree. I was pretty clear about my response being pretty emotional, and I doubt my emotions are the same as others'.

[Krelon]

Ah, well, mine are not so far off.

Jillian -RIPs-> Stanley (stabbity swordy way)
Parson -RIPs-> Ansom (squishy rocky way)

That would be my favorites, with a close third: Charlie (R.I.(not)P.)

I guess people don't always get what they want, right?

[chpicker]

My theory:

Maggie mentions one of the lines the Foolamancer used and Parson recognizes it, coming up with the name of the character who used it...which turns out to be the Foolamancer's real name.

Or Wanda snaps out of it and knows what it is seeing as the Foolamancer came from Faq, as well.

I do rather enjoy the thought of Jillian calling out to him, though, giving Stanley the answer after it's too late!

[Templar]

Well, i wouldn't bet on Jillian... i don't see her dying, i think there's more to be done with her... Vinnie on the other hand, i could see.

It makes me sad that I might have to track Rob down and beat him senseless.

[The_JJ]

Jillian is protected by the fact that is a bisessual love-craving triple-agent with a vengeance on the road (and, token barbarian). She's not a character, she is a whole book on her own.

Laurentio

You said it better then I did.

I just think that Vinny will make it. Don't ask me why.

[TheWombat]

Total non-sequitor, but I think that Ansom is holding the one item that will help Jillian win. A flag for FAQ.

"No flag, no country. That's the rule... that I just made up."

[Yenkaz]

If Stanley Returns to GK(to find the name of the foolamancer) as speculated before, Ansom might suspect a spy amoungst his troops since he might suspect that Stanley somehow knew that the air units had departed.

Wait, who gave him to idea to have the air units leave the area in order to hunt Stanley?
Maybe he'll actually suspect Jillan of betraying him by luring away the air support, while stanley was waiting in or near GK the whole time.

Unlikely theories, he seems to trust her after the dwagon incident, but it's fun to think about.

[zeropsm]

Ack. Lots of threads. Anyhow, before I finish pages 2-4, I wanted to posit a possibility in the event Stanley is croaked.

Many people claim that everyone or nearly everyone at GK would be disbanded if Stanley (the Warlord with no heir) is croaked.

However, we already know there is a heir. A legitimate heir whose kingdom was stolen, but one that she can still claim. Jillian. If Jillian claims her Kingdom after croaking Stanley, is all well and does Parson become Chief Warlord under Jillian?

Also, does this then place Ansom's forces attacking Jillian's?

Anyhow, I'm not claiming Stanley will be croaked. I'm just a bit tired of the needless viewpoint that such an event would be the end of GK's other characters.

nonsense...parson is a gk unit

not faq's.

Stanley wasn't heir of faq, and he's no king of faq, so if he croaks (and i wish him to croak) GOBWIN KNOB will fall.

Faq fell already, it's units are now barbarians.

nonsense

[Laurentio]

Stanley wasn't heir of faq, and he's no king of faq, so if he croaks (and i wish him to croak) GOBWIN KNOB will fall.

I agree. All but the fact that Gobwin Knob fall is opinable, as gobwins are not Stanley's units, but just allied.

We will see.

Laurentio

[reignofevil]

You know, look what Parson did to Ansom when Vinnie and Jillian WERE here, now Ansom is basically sending away the things that keep him in tune with... well anything. Parson is going to play him like a 50 cent kazoo now. I give it 3 turns before Parson is in control of every action Ansom takes.