Arena Tournament, Round 34: Sir Schwant vs Chili IV vs Grawl vs Kor

[chilepepper]

Round 3: Chile's turn

Free action: "Uh, hey, I'm not using dirty tricks. Did you see how far he just moved?! Man, I'm just trying to survive."
Move Action: Grab a vial off of Grawl's body.
Free action: "You two should really just focus on each other. I'll leave you two alone."
Standard Action: Read a spell off of my scroll

Spoiler

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Invisibility - caster level check (1d20+1)[6] DC 3, and it was the potion of CLW that I took

I'll finish my move with an edit - stay tuned.

edit: I disappear.
Oh and the smoke expands to a 10' radius

Done. Kor's turn.

stats

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HP: 7/7
AC: 22 t18 f17 (Armor 4, Dex 5, Sacred/Profane 3)
Effects:
-Mage Armor 3/600
-Law Devotion 2/10 (ac)
Position: N26
Spells: 5W,5S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife

[chilepepper]

I will be away for 2-3 days. Dont DQ me or kill me please.

Just wanted to keep this on the current page for the refs.

[Adumbration]

@Chilepepper:

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Just a little clarification - when the smoke expands to 10' radius, wouldn't you too be required to make the save against it?

[chilepepper]

refs

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Nope. That's actually why I took the 5' step after throwing it. Here's the area the smoke occupies after it expands.

Game on.

[Adumbration]

@Chilepepper:

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I could argue that you had to go through gas when you reached to take the potion, but since there's no RAW about it...

Jeah, go ahead.

[Bigmac]

Um..

How do you know where my vials are? Can you see them through the smoke? I have more than one type of potion, are you sure which one you took? What if it was a vial of alchemist frost instead? I think we need to get a high ref to interpret / create some rule on taking stuff from a downed opponent. Also, you might need to make a fort save yourself if you are going to be taking stuff off of someone who's in the smoke.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

This all depends on exactly how metagame we are going. By the Arena rules, he knows the entire contents of your inventory, unless you have used part of it during this match while he was unable to see you. We can either do this the simple way and let him take what he wants or the more difficult way of randomly rolling among all similar looking objects. Which will it be?

I would say that retrieving an item from a downed person is at least a full round action, though. (Precedent: Psionic Tatoos on downed characters.)

[chilepepper]

refs

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You have 1 Potion of Shield of Faith, 1 alchemists frost, and 2 potion of CLW. On you sheet, the potion of CLW is listed as being IN anything, so I don't have to search for it. As far as which I take: alchemists frosts, like fire, is in a clay pot, not a glass vial.

I looked for the quote for that and I'm wrong about that. However, alch. fire is in a flask which holds 1 pint, potions are in vials which hold 1 ounce.

Physical Description

A typical potion or oil consists of 1 ounce of liquid held in a ceramic or glass vial fitted with a tight stopper.

Alchemist’s Fire

You can throw a flask of alchemist’s fire as a splash weapon.

Flask: This ceramic, glass, or metal container is fitted with a tight stopper and holds 1 pint of liquid.

Vial, ink or potion

A vial holds 1 ounce of liquid. The stoppered container usually is no more than 1 inch wide and 3 inches high.

That narrows it down to three vials, two of which are identical. I take one of the two identical ones. Not to mention, during declaration of items before the match, I would have seen exactly which one it was.

As for it being a full round action, I don't think so. If he were conscious, I'd have to use a disarm, which is a standard action. Since he's unconscious, I'm picking up an item, a move action. He certainly didn't have enough actions in round 1 to sleight of hand and hide it, so I don't have to search for it. And as I said, his sheet doesn't list any of them as being IN anything, so I don't have to manipulate anything to get to it.

edit: and the smoke doesn't obscure vision
edit2: and you can pickup things in adjacent squares without moving, so at no time do I occupy a square that has the smoke in it, therefore, no fort save. I know in reality, my hand would be exposed, but by RAW, I'm not exposed.
edit3: corrected an incorrect statement within the ref only spoiler

[Bayar]

Think you should do a search check to retrieve the correct item...if it was a weapon, then it would have been a move action since it is something easily identifiable. A certain potion amongst other potions, not so easy...

[chilepepper]

Checking back in after the down time.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Chili does make a good case for it being a move action, given that Grawl's gear does not need to be searched through to find the potions and he is unable to resist.

He also makes a good case for why he would not mis-identify a potion from alchemist's fire or frost.

Still, the SRD lists only two methods for identifying a potion, i.e. Magic and Taste. Color was not included as a possibility. Therefore, I think randomly determining the potion grabbed would be the most fair method.

Since Chili can't identify which potion it is, I'll spoiler the random roll. Grawl can know what he lost.

Spoiler

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(1d3)[2]
1-2: Potion of CLW
3: Potion of Shield of Faith

[chilepepper]

Well, the taste thing is an example, but I can't argue the possibility that the different potions happen to look the same. So since I can't determine which is which, random it is. Thank you Kyeudo, for your time.

If no one else contests his decision, I believe it is Kor's turn.

[Bayar]

My turn...so, you are invisible, right ?

Kor - Round 3

Move from O4 to O12.

Ready an action:

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If anything attacks me, move in the direction from where the attack came from.

End turn.

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HP: 21/21
AC:15 T:11 FF:14
Wielding: Fist
In hand: Potion of invisibility.

Crystals of returning are equipped on: Sungliin, Spiked Chain

Everything listed on my char sheet is on my persona.

[chilepepper]

That is correct, I am invisible.

edit: Also -

Hey everyone, KCmier just sent me a message through ArenaManager explaining that he is having difficulty logging in with his normal account. Nobody DQ him until he can get his account problems resolved.

[chilepepper]

Update transcribed from the waiting room.

Update on KC: He just sent me another PM using ArenaManager and says he should be able to regain access by the Fourth of August.

[Bayar]

well, it is 06-08...

[Bigmac]

I'd be O.K. with him posting his actions under the arena manager account if he wants to. I only have a few weeks before I go back to lala land.

[chilepepper]

Or he could just make a new account.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Sir Schwant is disqualified due to prolonged abscence.

Carry on.

[chilepepper]

Quick recap
======================
Initiative
Chile - Chile IV - 18
Bayar - Kor 5(+1)
Bigmac - Grawl - 5(-1)
KC - Sir Schwant - 4

Round 1
Chile - Chile IV - Cast a spell from a scroll
Bayar - Kor - Move to I7
Bigmac - Grawl - Move to M25
KC - Sir Schwant - Move to I10

Round 2
Chile - Chile IV - sleep smoke, move to N26
Bayar - Kor - move to O4
Bigmac - Grawl - asleep
KC - Sir Schwant - move to I17

Round 3
Chile - Chile IV - stole a potion, disappeared
Bayar - Kor - move to O12
Bigmac - Grawl - asleep
KC - Sir Schwant - DQ

[chilepepper]

Round 4 - Chile's turn

The sleepsmoke dissipates. I'm still invisible.

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Move action: stow the Scroll, hide (1d20+45)[53]
Ready an Action to cast Launch item on LoE to Kor.

stats

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HP: 7/7
AC: 22 t18 f17 (Armor 4, Dex 5, Sacred/Profane 3)
Effects:
-Mage Armor 4/600
-Law Devotion 3/10 (ac)
Position: N26, invisible, hiding
Spells: 5W,5S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Grawl's sleep smoke: secondary save Round 12, Chile's turn.

Done, Bayar-Kor's turn.

[Bayar]

Kor - Round 4

Will try to spot you:

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Free spot: (1d20)[4]
Extra spot (move action) (1d20)[8]

If he hasnt rolled a hide check, he should have only a DC 20...

And will ready an action:

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If anything attacks me, move in the direction from where the attack came from.

Stats:

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HP: 21/21
AC:15 T:11 FF:14
Wielding: Fist
In hand: Potion of invisibility.

Crystals of returning are equipped on: Sungliin, Spiked Chain

Everything listed on my char sheet is on my persona.

End turn.

[chilepepper]

Round 5 - chile's turn

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Switch Law devotion to attack bonus. Move to V26, hide (1d20+22)[31], ready an action to cast LI on LoE to bayar

stats

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HP: 7/7
AC: 19 t15 f14 (Armor 4, Dex 5)
Effects:
-Mage Armor 5/600
-Law Devotion 4/10 (attack)
-Invisible 3/30
Position: N26, invisible, hiding
Spells: 5W,5S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Grawl's sleep smoke: secondary save Round 12, Chile's turn.

Done, Bayar-Kor's turn.

[Bayar]

Kor - Round 5

K. I wanna ready an action. I ready:

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An action to move if someone attacks me.

Stats:

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HP: 21/21
AC:15 T:11 FF:14
Wielding: Fist
In hand: Potion of invisibility.
Location: O12

Crystals of returning are equipped on: Sungliin, Spiked Chain

Everything listed on my char sheet is on my persona.

And I declare turn.

[chilepepper]

Round 6 - Chile's turn

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Move to Z22, cast Launch Item. Sleepsmoke at O12/P13, (1d20+8)[26] vs AC 5 +2 for cover
(1d8)[6] if miss

Not done.

From somewhere to the southeast, a vial of sleepsmoke comes flying at you, shattering at O12/P13, filling those four squares with the gas. Make a DC15 fort save or fall unconscious.

stats

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HP: 7/7
AC: 19 t15 f14 (Armor 4, Dex 5)
Effects:
-Mage Armor 6/600
-Law Devotion 5/10 (attack)
-Invisible 3/30
Position: Z22, invisible
Spells: 5W,4S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Grawl's sleep smoke: secondary save Round 12, Chile's turn.
Bayar's sleep smoke: secondary save Round 16, Chile's turn.

Done.

[Bayar]

That triggers my readied action !

I readied to move if someone attacks me. So tehnically, you attacked me. Dunno if that breaks your invisibility, since you tried to do an AoE on me...

So, I move...to southeast ? Umm...Mythweavers is down so cant view my sheet, nor your sheet. Can I wait until it is back ?

[chilepepper]

A- I didn't attack you.

B- Since I'm invisible, you don't have anyway of perceiving that I'm attacking. Therefore your readied action can't trigger.

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius

Chile are you sure that this does not break invisibility? Throwing a item... that requires you to roll an attack roll, I don't know... is there any precedent to what you are saying?

But anyway your ready action does not trigger Bayar, you can't react to something that you are unaware of, so please roll the fort save.

EDIT: Actually when i think about it now I have a brief memory of this being discussed before and I yhink you are right about the grenade weapons too Chile, but if you could find the precedent on this it would be better anyway

[Bayar]

I can see the item flying at me since it is no longer invisible when it flies towards me. I cannot see Chile but I can prevent it...

Anyway: (1d20+5)[13] Now...let us thow see...

Still want my readied action to trigger since I am being attacked...so I can move before it breaks...

[chilepepper]

The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack.

I'm not attacking a creature, I'm attacking the ground. It's a grenade weapon, not a spell. RAW backs me up. The discussion was whether the ground was an attended item, but was dropped because there's no RAW to back it up. Even still, I'm not doing damage.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible

Technically, I'm not dropping or putting down the item, so by RAW, it doesn't become invisible. There some other RAW that indicates you can't react to an attack you can't see, I'm still looking for it though.