Total War 2250

[Emperor Demonking]

"We find the UAL's plan terriable, we can see the NRE's point but we cannot see the UAL's. Let's give nations prime invasion spots as long asv they're in equal numbers."

[Greystone]

"Let me see if I understand" Isabella asks in consternation "You think that its better to have a galactic free for all, with no chance of equality? That is madness Dual moons. Are you saying that not everyone should have a fair share of our Solar System?

The NRE's point is that everyone should state a claim, then get troops there within two years. That has little rhyme or reason and will lead to more conflict than if we just say know that this is yours and that is mine, and that moon is the UNE's...and so on.

If we do that now, then war will be unnecessary. Oh and did you miss the part were COSS is supposed to stop any wars?"

Earth

Dr. Mayer's blue labcoat swishes angrily "No, I believe it is you who misunderstand. Relgion, in our eyes, is a waste of time and energy. Back when the worship centers still had faithful, we allowed it. As time went on people came less and less.

We HAVE faith. We believe in our leaders, we believe in our generals, and in our technology. We do not need some god to give credit too, when in reality it is our own blood and sweat that drives our country forwards.

Our Elite are as much atheists as the populace you little fool. I do not believe, neither does Isabella.

Our people would attack you, because the last time their were apocalypse prophets, millions of people died, because of the fear they caused.

While it IS true that they have less freedom then at the beginning of the NAC, they still have some powers of voting for everything up to Governor.

We have every right to stop this apocalyptic prattle. It is nonsense and we refuse to have it polluting our television, when their are much more useful things on. We have all heard the rantings of mad men before, we don't need to listen to you as well.

Do our people look desperate?" she gestures at the assembled crowd who as one shouted NO!.

We placed guards around your embassy to assure you did not start any speeches of an apocalyptic nature. If they do NOT, then they are NOT restrained, I believe I already explained that! If you still wish the embassy gone, then so be it, you asked for it.

You call us vipers, but I disagree. We are the mongoose have ferried out you, the cobra in our bed. Now you WILL realize that we of the UAL will take none of this meaningless nonsense.

It is OUR arguement which has a basis.

Your entire point is believe in your ridiculous end of days propaganda, or we are godless heathens. It is people like you that have caused more human suffering then even the most murderous tyrant. At least the tyrant knows they are doing wrong, yous still cling to the belief that you are in the right.

You support the NRE, when they have caused FAR suffering than the UAL ever has. The NAC is dead and gone, and with them hae gone their ideals. We are the UAL, Paragon of human goodness. Or at least that is what we are trying.

We are here to prove that we can have morals even without an all powerful being MAKING us be good.

[Emperor Demonking]

"I don't see how its a good thing to have resources that can't be tapped into because the resourses were given to someone who doesn't want to tap them. That's what would happen with your plan." Said The Dual Moons. "How would you split it up anyway?"

"I think I should reiterate that I am still in favour of the UNE's plan."

[Greystone]

"That will be taken into account when we are deciding who gets what. This was a compromise between the the NRE's and the UNE's ideas. No taxes and fewer ramifications against new colonies, but still enough regulation that it isn't a complete free for all.

A good compromise is one that both sides would rather not take. Learning to compromise will be essential if COSS is to work."

[Emperor Demonking]

"If a nation would rather any of the two sides over the compromise. Then the compromise is a bad compromise."

[Greystone]

"That....makes no sense. The point of a compromise is to attempt combine both proposals. If one wants heavy regualtion and the other wants none, the only compromise I can see is much lighter regulation, but regulation nonetheless."

[Emperor Demonking]

"But if the side that wants no restricts, would rather have heavy restrictions than the "compromise" then the "compromise" is wrong." Said the Dual Moons. "I should also point out that your plan is not in fact a compromise."

[Greystone]

"Well I have yet to see the NRE, or anyone else opposed to heavy regulation, say they are in favor of the UNE's plan. If they would prefer let them speak up. I am trying to find a medium which both arguments find at least slightly appealing.

What do you disagree with in my argument?"

[Emperor Demonking]

"Unless you think the NRE would prefer your plan to their own, the fact that they haven't spoken is immaterial. The problem with your plan is that, well, the UNE's plan clearly solves the problem with colonisationk, the NRE's can be used to solve the problem. Your way doesn't solve the problem."

[Greystone]

"My way solves the problem completly. We say right here what planets you get. Aftyer an alloted time we will reconvine to make sure everyone is satisfied.

The NRE's way it will just be a whoever wants what can have it, which will lead to conflict no matter what they say. The UNE's way, while it does solve the problem, so far has made several out cries.

My way bridges the gap.

How could that NOT solve the problem?"

[Emperor Demonking]

"Close your eyes and imagine. We vote your way. 4 months in the future, mass invasions. 6 months, almost everyone is dead." Said The Dual Moons. "That is the problem with your way."

[Greystone]

"Why? Because everyone got a fair share? If any of these ways would involve invasions, it would be the NRE way, since it has absolutly no control. The UNE way is probably the safest, but it may grow anger at the regulations that must be paid.

You keep saying that the UAL's proposed plan is so much worse, but you give no solid reasons at why its worse than the other two.

Why don't you try explaining instead of prophesying" she glances at the Obus Dai delegates "We have enough of that already"

[LongVin]

"The Imperial way will not lead to war. It is based on an orderly first claim system. Let us say that that we lay claim to Jupiter on January 1st 2251, our claim will be recognized as the dominant one. This will be done by making a public announcement and filing it with COSS. We then have until January 1st 2252 to establish a base of operations on Jupiter to finalize it. If we are unable to do that, Jupiter is once again reopened for claiming. Then you would be able to lay claim or just establish a presence to have the claim recognized to the UAL.

The only way a claim could be contested is if a claim is followed the same day, and then COSS officialls would simply have to look at the time that the request was transmitted. Or if a colony ship arrived on the day the claim was expiring and another nation attempted to lay claim or establish a presence. Once again, it would merely involve looking at the time stamps of the arrivals.

And of course, in the case another faction unlawfully attacked a colony ship to jump a claim COSS would be asked to intervene and extend the claim date."

[Greystone]

"But the ramifications are horrendous. The spaceborn nations such as Niten, myself, and the Papacy will have a much better chance to solidify their claims than say, the UNE who have none at this point, besides some orbiting facilities.

At least in my way we won't have to deal with any claims. We decide here and now who gets what and then we will no longer have to interfer."

[LongVin]

"And what if those claims like dormant for years or are never utilized? We are making sure that every claim will have to be used to atleast some extent."

[Greystone]

"If the claims lie dormant, we file an inquiry, and if the nation does not want the land then we can decide what to do at the next council meeting.

Senator, we have a duty to minimize conflict, and I fear your way will simply lead to bloodshed."

[Emperor Demonking]

"How will it lead to blood shed? It is orderly plus it should stop any nation feeling like they were shortchanged because of politics."

[Eldan]

Now, for the first time, Akra Jain chuckles in her box.
"It would be amusing, if it weren't so sad. But you have to realize one thing: It's human nature to always feel "shortchanged". And if nations have one feature, it's that they act like humans with all their emotions amplified tenfold. If you carve up the system today, some will feel they didn't get enough. If you let them just take whatever they want, some will feel that they didn't get enough because they didn't have colony ships.
Your entire operation is doomed to fail, as sad and fatalistic as that sounds."

[Greystone]

"No they'll feel short changed because they didn't "claim" a planet in time, or couldn't make it.

Imagine a fleet of colony ships are destroyed by pirates or mercenaries and they don't get to the planet. Well now anybody else with any ships in system can claim it.

When discussing what we get extraterritoriality we will have to make sure that everyone's piece gives them the same, or at least close, to everyone elses.

It will lead to bloodshed simply because of the fact that if someone has ebough ships, placed right, they can claim the entire galaxy.

The best detterent for war is equality. If someone has the same thing as me, why should I take it? See my point?"

At the belters words Isabella smiles sarcastically "I'm glad that you have something constructive to say"

[Eldan]

"Oh, don't get me wrong, your idea is good, and I tihnk it's much better than the Empires "Give to those who take" idea. I just think that no matter what, there will be wars.
But, and that is the important factor here, there can be more or less wars, and they can be more or less bloody."

[Emperor Demonking]

"About the destroyed fleet comment. That is not true, they could try again and if not they would, as has been previously mentioned, be granted extra time." Said The Dual Moons. "About you shortchanged comment. Yes, but its one thing to feel short changed because your incompetent but another to feel that your shortchanged because of the conspiring of others."

[The_JJ]

Captain Lambert sneers. You think I argue against you because I fear for the Companies profits? Hell, the moment you start building that army we'll have a hundred new offers for contracts of protection from you. Why? Because you are claiming sweeping power over the rest of the system, and you want to build an army to enforce it. Yes, yes, you'll end all wars... by quashing all dissent with your power. I'm sorry, but no thanks.
As to a 'solar system free for all' well, why not? It's worked so far. So far, no wars over who gets what. If you've got a habitable base, you can call it yours. That's how it's been done, that's how we've done it, and that's how we'll run our bases no matter what you say.
And again, I don't really object to having a massive army around to bully people into peace or whatever, my issue is how the hell you intend to keep the damn thing from running rampant!

Ahem, here we go again. Why does this council need a dedicated army? Why regulate colonization? Why are you so insistant on getting this army of yours up and running? Why not a simple agreement that every member state be required to contribute a certain number of soldiers and ships if needed? And what will you do to prevent this power from being abused?!
And as to spies, well, any state with anything they really need to hide simply won't join, so why do you find it nessesary to pry into everybody else's bussiness?

*and since this is all over, the Rommel and the Ceasar open fire over all UAL holdings*

[Greystone]

*its not over, do you really do that?*

[The_JJ]

Ahhh... optimism.

Nah, I'll wait.

[Pumpkin3.1415]

(OOC: C'mon, JJ. There's gotta be someone who wants to take over. Hell, if we can't find a GM, I'll do it.)

[RationalGoblin]

(OOC: C'mon, JJ. There's gotta be someone who wants to take over. Hell, if we can't find a GM, I'll do it.)

(OOC: Weeeeelll, you know that heavily encoded message to the pirates I made? The one that NO ONE should have read? I basically invited them to reduce the entire Justice Base to it's "base" atoms. And if they don't agree to do that, then I assume the Justice Base is near Earth? Where did I state my three massive bases/battlestations were orbiting? Earth. )

[Pumpkin3.1415]

(OOC: Whoa whoa whoa...let's just slow down here...I didnt' say I was taking over just yet...)

[Greystone]

(OOC-Really? Your going to just annihilate Justice? or is that ONLY if the game is ending)

[RationalGoblin]

(OOC-Really? Your going to just annihilate Justice? or is that ONLY if the game is ending)

(OOC: I've decided on a endgame plan, and blowing up Justice may help it move forward more quickly. Thus, asking the pirates to annihilate it. And of course, if they refuse, I have the choice to either destroy Justice with my three battlestations of Valhalla, Olympus, and Gehenna, or not. And of course, my terms asking the Pirates to blow up Justice are so vague, that if I decide not to destroy Justice myself, you can't implicate me. At all.)

[Greystone]

(OOC_...but really? an endgame plan already? If you DO attack us you will be facing the...well...ALL the most powerful armies in the known universe. That seems a little psychotic.)