My Little Pony IX: The Best Thread Ever

[Grif]

If I may?

Spoiler

Show

I think I'm glowing from all the fancy schmancy beams you ponies keep firing.

Wait...

Also, now catching up on fanfics in EqD.
So. Many. To. Read.

[tonberrian]

Oh shore, y'all talk like yeh were the ones victimized! Y'all're fergettin' real fast why Granny Smith done needs that hip replacement! Raspberry Sundae bucked 'er outta nowhere! And...

... and, cuz, ah'm sorry.

Ah mean, all this fightin.' 'Tain't gettin' us nowhere. Ah mean, from an economic perspective, berries 'n apples're entirely different products. It's all fruit, but it's completely DIFFERENT fruit. An' ah don't really know why we done been brawlin'. Granny Smith don't remember neither. Ah don't want little Apple Bloom growin' up with the hate in her heart. Are y'all just willin' t' forgive and ferget? Ah wanna be a family again!

"Spare me yer yappin', Apple. Ah see yah eyein' my berries. Prob'ly thinkin' ya can pull th'wool 'ver my eyes. But Ah'm onta ya an' yer treacherous ways. Ya gotta get up pretty early ta make a fool outta Berry Ann! Now come along, Jubles, we're goin' home."

"Sorry about that. Sis could teach mules to be stubborn, 'specially when it comes to feuding."

"Jubles! Get away from there! Yain't gonna 'ssociate with Apples on my watch!"

[TheAmishPirate]

@Raz_Fox

Spoiler

Show

The way I see it, you have two options:

1) Remove the epilogue.

This is a lot more work than it appears, because you've been setting this up for the entire story. One reason I liked the epilogue was that the twist was set up really well. Take that out, and the buildup to the end will have to be completely different. On the other hand, Part 6 really does have an amazing end, and could stand on its own without the epilogue.

2) Improve the epilogue.

Improving the epilogue is probably just as much effort. I love your work, and think you're excellent writer and all, but it is really obvious that this was rushed. There's a lot of lines that stand out as odd, some things aren't explained quite well enough, etc. It needs a few more rounds of polish, especially if it's to stand up to Part 6, but I think it could be done.


Personally? I think you should give it a shot. Really re-work the epilogue, make it awesome, and then see how it works. I think it carries the (unintentional) themes very well, and Braeburn's attempt at reconciling with Rainbow Dash was heartwarming to "gee, I could toast marshmallows over my chest" levels. The twist caught me by surprise, which is always a plus. I knew something was up, that this was some sort of alternate universe, but was pleasantly surprised by the whole "all just a play" ending. I can't say for sure if it will work, but I say that it's worth a try. After all, if it turns out you can't make it work, then you already have a solid ending to fall back on.

The critique offer still stands, but I'll wait until you decide on what to do.

[erikun]

But... but all the best fruit salads have apples and berries! Why can't we all just be one whole and happy family?

[tonberrian]

If I may?

Spoiler

Show

"D'YA EVEN REALIZE WHAT KINDA ECO-MAWHATSIT DAMAGE THAT THING DOES?!? AH LOST HALF A HARVEST TA THAT THING NOT TWO YEARS AGO! NOT TA MENTION ALL THOSE POOR MAMMOTH BLACKBERRIES WHO TURN ALL RAINBOWY AN' CAN'T MATE! THEY'RE ENDANGERED, YAH KNOW! NOW PUT THAT THING AWAY AN' APOLOGIZE!"

But... but all the best fruit salads have apples and berries! Why can't we all just be one whole and happy family?

"Mixin' berries an' apples? Ya sure ya didn' get dropped or sumthin' when ya was a foal?"

[Raz_Fox]

@Raz_Fox

Spoiler

Show

The way I see it, you have two options:

1) Remove the epilogue.

This is a lot more work than it appears, because you've been setting this up for the entire story. One reason I liked the epilogue was that the twist was set up really well. Take that out, and the buildup to the end will have to be completely different. On the other hand, Part 6 really does have an amazing end, and could stand on its own without the epilogue.

2) Improve the epilogue.

Improving the epilogue is probably just as much effort. I love your work, and think you're excellent writer and all, but it is really obvious that this was rushed. There's a lot of lines that stand out as odd, some things aren't explained quite well enough, etc. It needs a few more rounds of polish, especially if it's to stand up to Part 6, but I think it could be done.


Personally? I think you should give it a shot. Really re-work the epilogue, make it awesome, and then see how it works. I think it carries the (unintentional) themes very well, and Braeburn's attempt at reconciling with Rainbow Dash was heartwarming to "gee, I could toast marshmallows over my chest" levels. The twist caught me by surprise, which is always a plus. I knew something was up, that this was some sort of alternate universe, but was pleasantly surprised by the whole "all just a play" ending. I can't say for sure if it will work, but I say that it's worth a try. After all, if it turns out you can't make it work, then you already have a solid ending to fall back on.

The critique offer still stands, but I'll wait until you decide on what to do.

CRITIQUE ME.

Gah, I can't decide either way. But give me critique! I need it, the same way that a forest needs fire! It burns, but it brings new life!

[Mystic Muse]

"D'YA EVEN REALIZE WHAT KINDA ECO-MAWHATSIT DAMAGE THAT THING DOES?!? AH LOST HALF A HARVEST TA THAT THING NOT TWO YEARS AGO! NOT TA MENTION ALL THOSE POOR MAMMOTH BLACKBERRIES WHO TURN ALL RAINBOWY AN' CAN'T MATE! THEY'RE ENDANGERED, YAH KNOW! NOW PUT THAT THING AWAY AN' APOLOGIZE!"

Sunny Wonders appears.

*HUG SENSE TINGLING*

She appears right on top of Berry Ann's back and starts hugging her. Hugs Solve everything! she exclaims. No matter how hard you try, you won't be able to get her off.

[tonberrian]

Sunny Wonders appears.

*HUG SENSE TINGLING*

She appears right on top of Berry Ann's back and starts hugging her. Hugs Solve everything! she exclaims. No matter how hard you try, you won't be able to get her off.

After struggling a bit, Berry Ann lets out a snort and tries to walk back home in a superior fashion.

This, of course, is hampered by the grey pegasus filly hugging her tightly.

Cherry Jubilee follows his sister home, trying very hard (but not terribly successfully) not to laugh

Edit: OhmygodthelongerIwatchthecutershegets!

[Gamerlord]

If I may?

Spoiler

Show

Okay, now my computer is trying to hug me with the power cord, but it is more like strangling meoidr6tfygu.

[TheAmishPirate]

CRITIQUE ME.

Gah, I can't decide either way. But give me critique! I need it, the same way that a forest needs fire! It burns, but it brings new life!

FINE GOSH YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL

Spoiler

Show

-The second paragraph, where Braeburn just notices the crowd, I honestly thought it was the other ponies in the fight. It took me a while to realize they were on a stage and all. A bit more description would help here. Maybe noticing stage lights or something?

""Enough." Celestia's voice was firm, and only because I was standing so close could I notice the subtle anger there. But more than anger, there was disappointment."
-Disappointment at what? It's never really explained if Celestia knew what was going on here, and if she did, why would she be disappointed? A better approach (IMO) would be for her to be firm in a "everypony settle the heck down and we'll sort this out" kind of way.

""I kissed a filly!" Luna stumbled over to her sister, scraping at her tongue and blushing fiercely. "I... I... the moon! Send me to the moon! Canterlot! Stalliongrad! Somewhere, just not here!""
-Did I miss something? I honestly don't remember this happening. Also, saying "send me" sounds off when I think she would be perfectly capable of leaving herself. Better option might be "let's go" or something to that effect.

""We can't leave, Luna," Celestia said quietly. "There's too much to do here, first.""
-This line sounds REALLY cliched to me. What is there to do? How do you know what there is to do? Is this something you've dealt with before? Is that a copy of the script over there? Have you been peeking?

I think a better response would be something like, "First, somepony has some explaining to do." and then put Pinkie's explanation here. She has to calm Luna down, but also try to figure out what all has just happened.

Luna looked over at me, and her eyes widened. "Look out!" She screamed.
Being an articulate, clever pony, my reply was the eloquent, "Huh?"
-Nice bit of dialogue/humor here, but Rainbow Dash must have had quite the wind-up for all of this to happen before Braeburn got socked.

"The sound of curtains closing - the Cutie Mark Crusaders were doing their best to pull them shut, moving with all the energy of youths."
-Minor gripe: How does he know they're called that? This is technically his first time in Ponyville. I guess he could have heard from Applejack? *shrug*


*Pinkie Pie explains*
-This explanation is, in true Pinkie Pie fashion, really rushed. While it fits her, it makes this explanation, the crux of the whole plot twist, seem tacked on. Better comments forthcoming, I'm exhausted.

*Celestia and them go after the lamp*
-This feels really odd. I can't put my finger on it right now, on account of it being late and me being tired. It'll come to me eventually.

"And Tirak nearly got what he wanted, but he made two mistakes too many. He underestimated you, and he didn't expect Fluttershy to stand up to him."
-"You" is not defined well here. Is she talking to Pinkie, or Braeburn?

"Then she said, with a bit more resolve in her voice, "I'm sorry, Braeburn. But you need to leave.""
-I really wish I could come up with a better wording of this line. I understand she's trying not to flip out, doesn't hate his guts, but also doesn't want him there. This line just doesn't feel like something Rainbow Dash would say, or rather not how she would say it. Maybe I'm being nitpicky, but hey, that what I do.

"I was honestly expecting her to pull off a Sonic Rainboom or something like that. I wasn’t expecting her to pull off a Sonic Kissboom."
-This could use some re-wording. It comes off more as a shout-out to the show rather than what he would be thinking. Also gets into the "how does he know about stuff like that?" territory again. Also, not going to lie, "Sonic Kissboom" sounds really...cheesy? I think that's the right word for it.

OVERALL THOUGHTS: The plot? I like it. It's a good ending and resolution to the story, combined with a twist that caught me by surprise.

The execution? Needs work. There are a few things here and there that need explaining, and the order of events could be switched a little. For instance, Pinkie explains everything after Rainbow Dash left, so how does she know what happened? She can jump to conclusions, but it might be better if she hangs around the scene a bit more. Some dialogue feels cliched and cheesy, and not really like the characters.

It just needs a really thorough editing. You may want to take a day or two to not think about this chapter, and then get back to it and see what you see.

EDIT: Thanqol nailed what had been bugging me. Listen to that guy, he actually knows what he's talking about.

[SiuiS]

there are more pages now than when last I checked... I do not understand why I find this surprising, though.
Anyway.

Artist Training Grounds Helping Thanqol Develop Edition

or

"Yeah, all these guidelines? We have a love-hate relationship"

Spoiler

Show

First, the finished products (there are two; don't know if I should submit colored or non-colored) so ya know where I'm going.





A scene from Catching Rainbows, since I was feeling unfunny after Thanqol's masterful use of fabulous dragonfruit.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have the general guidelines I used. Each head is a circle, with a cross. The cross doesn't really help me with placement of features as far as proportion though; I instead use it to avoid constantly having the exact same face positions.
The spines, a great idea cribbed from Alterform, really added some dynamism. Then a vague outline of where the limbs would go, including the target wing. You'll not a jumbly mess in RD's head - that's not insecurity, it's the rest of her body so I didn't mess up any proportions.

Spoiler

Show

Here I show the face. The lines help me keep it pointed, but this is how I get the eyes and such; I carve them from aliens.

The trick is that an eye is always an orb, and the ocular cavity will always show through. So this big circle is the whole of the eye...

Spoiler

Show

And I'm just adding lids and lashes to define it's direction. You'll note at the end, that Fluttershy's eyes are "off" or "wrong". I took some liberty with the shape before realizing exactly how much of her face was defined by her eye shape, just like Celestia or Silver Lining (or Shimmer, since she's experienced a fanon-shift of eponyms).

Now, I need to get rid of that sultry little smirk. It is only a guideline, but it's going to subconsciously alter how I draw everything around it. Since I want a serene, loving look rather than a lusty, satisfied one (FINISH YOUR STORY PHOE!) I'll just wipe it completely.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have my replacement details. It looks more like Fluttershy (except those damned eyes! Argh!) and it only took a couple solid strokes to do it. What I really want Thanqol to see here is that I'm covering my sketch lines with one dark, solid one. It seems to work rather well for me.

Spoiler

Show

Here is the meat I've added to the sketchy skeleton from earlier. You can still see most of the guides (if faintly) and you'll notice that once I had a good base (head and body) I stopped following them so absolutely. I think in the end I added an extra wing for RD so the space wouldn't looks so empty.

Both non-occupied wings are erect, in accordance with some strange fanon that I cannot quite grasp.

So what do y'all think, of the colored versus non- business?

[Thanqol]

Also, I am resisting the urge to stab you for appearing so nonchalant about getting 80 votes on a story in one stinking day. I haven't gotten 80 votes on anything, even all of my FlutterDashing put together!

The jealousy will either kill us or make us ship more.

Gonna start shippin' now 'cause I don't want to die.


@ Misted Stage p7:

Spoiler

Show

I think what this last part lacks is momentum. One of my personal writing theories is that momentum is critical, the faster a story moves the faster it can move. Misted Stage had it in spades. Unfortunately, to deploy the 'all a dream' effect you've got to kill all of that momentum you'd been building up and almost start the story over again from a standstill.

This means I didn't feel as invested in the climax as much as I should have been, because it didn't have any of that momentum behind it. The story structure felt like this:
> Acceleration > Sprint > Flat out conclusion > Dead stop > Few steps backwards > Acceleration > Conclusion

If you want that conclusion to work it needs to gather more speed before it hits. That could mean making it it's own story, but I've got no idea how the structure would fit.

EDIT: Or retain some of the momentum from before, though nothing damages momentum quite as much as exposition.

[Raz_Fox]

FINE GOSH YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL

Heh, sorry.

In related news, I think I'm suffering from Cutie Mark Failure Insanity Syndrome, CMFIS for short. Because I was hit by inspiration, realized that I needed to rewrite that ending entirely to jettison some concepts that I liked but bogged down the ending (in addition to fixing some of the things that TAP pointed out), fired up Write or Die, pounded out several very well-written paragraphs, and then my internet browser suffered from a critical existence failure and shut down. Aaaand when I pulled it back up, nothing I'd written was saved.

...



DEATH. DEATH. DEATH TO THE COMPUTER.

[darthbobcat]

"D'YA EVEN REALIZE WHAT KINDA ECO-MAWHATSIT DAMAGE THAT THING DOES?!? AH LOST HALF A HARVEST TA THAT THING NOT TWO YEARS AGO! NOT TA MENTION ALL THOSE POOR MAMMOTH BLACKBERRIES WHO TURN ALL RAINBOWY AN' CAN'T MATE! THEY'RE ENDANGERED, YAH KNOW! NOW PUT THAT THING AWAY AN' APOLOGIZE!"



"Mixin' berries an' apples? Ya sure ya didn' get dropped or sumthin' when ya was a foal?"

All right, ah didn't wanna do this, but y'all ain't given me no choice but the nuclear option!



Fighting with your family is naughty and you shouldn't do it.

[Thanqol]

there are more pages now than when last I checked... I do not understand why I find this surprising, though.
Anyway.

Artist Training Grounds Helping Thanqol Develop Edition

This is super handy. Thank you so much. Gonna note and practice the heck outta this.

Also, the colour is awesome.


@Beyond Forever:

Solid d'awww. Sorry for the lateness/unhelpfullness on this.

[darthbobcat]

This is super handy. Thank you so much. Gonna note and practice the heck outta this.


@Beyond Forever:

Solid d'awww. Sorry for the lateness/unhelpfullness on this.

Yeah... I'm gonna miss Purple Pie, but that's really the best ending for her.

... actually, y'know what's hilarious, is remember months ago when I was trying to come up with Photo Finish fics and every idea I had was shot down for being too depressing? It seems that the only way I can write a Photo Finish story and have it end happily... is to have Photo Finish cease to be Photo Finish. I guess I just can't imagine her happy. Period

[Thanqol]

Yeah... I'm gonna miss Purple Pie, but that's really the best ending for her.

... actually, y'know what's hilarious, is remember months ago when I was trying to come up with Photo Finish fics and every idea I had was shot down for being too depressing? It seems that the only way I can write a Photo Finish story and have it end happily... is to have Photo Finish cease to be Photo Finish. I guess I just can't imagine her happy. Period

That's the way of the Mask, alas. You get stuck being someone you don't want to be.

[darthbobcat]

That's the way of the Mask, alas. You get stuck being someone you don't want to be.

Speaking of Masks,

Did you see those emo-band lyrics I found for you yesterday, for our masterpiece?

[PhoeKun]

CRITIQUE ME.

Gah, I can't decide either way. But give me critique! I need it, the same way that a forest needs fire! It burns, but it brings new life!

Spoiler

Show

Thus far the Equestria Daily pre-readers have been largely silent on the subject of your story, but I have informed them you're looking for real feedback and critique, and I've gotten assurances that they're working on it. Although it might not be until tomorrow afternoon before I have anything concrete to give you.

In lieu of anything like that, please allow me to explain to you why the Epilogue is not a necessity, but rather a bonus piece for you to perform if you feel the desire:

Your hints toward the meta plot are not as forceful as you might think. The only time anypony ever directly states that there are forces at work outside of the story with real force is when the Doctor asks Braeburn if he remembers Ponyville. But the narration pushes straight past it, because there's more important things going on right then and there and our narrator isn't the sort to ponder metafiction. He's made this abundantly clear through 6 chapters of writing. And as our storyteller, so too our story. As our story, so too our reader.

Have you ever watched Elfen Lied? The ending is "ambiguous", and I've heard complaints that it needs to fill in more details for it to be good. But this is stupid, because the visuals and the sounds and all the story elements of the previous episodes make it abundantly clear without actually having to say anything exactly what happens. And that's largely what's going on here. All of your hinting and poking and pawing actually builds up into the main plot and gets released in that same delicious ending. There was a play? All the ponies were playing roles in a magical game? Yeah, I knew that. I knew all of that before you told me. Or rather, before you told me twice. The audience applauded. In that single image and sentence I knew everything that would happen in your epilogue. I knew Dash's reaction, I knew Braeburn would go after her. I knew it would work out. I knew they were in Ponyville. I even knew this was all Pinkie's doing. All you have to do is look, and you see the epilogue reflected in the main narrative. This is part of the reason why the epilogue feels so flat in comparison - the job's been done. The WOW is over, and even the kiss has happened right before our eyes. It's all so potent that actually reading about the events it hints at seem like a letdown.

This is one of Phoe's Rules For Writing: Find the best image to end on, and have the courage to end on it. If you've hit on it properly, you will be as clear and concise as anypony ever has without ever needing to take the time to say everything you're thinking. I hope this has been useful insight for you.

edit before posting - You might like to hear Sethisto's response to your story:

>Trixie dressed up like a persian

Sign me up!

[Thanqol]

Speaking of Masks,

Did you see those emo-band lyrics I found for you yesterday, for our masterpiece?

*Checks*

Oh god.

This is horribleperfect. I'll mash it up with some Evanescence and sprinkle it in to the story. But I'll do it later, because first, stories about dogs.

[PhoeKun]

there are more pages now than when last I checked... I do not understand why I find this surprising, though.
Anyway.

Artist Training Grounds Helping Thanqol Develop Edition

or

"Yeah, all these guidelines? We have a love-hate relationship"

Spoiler

Show

First, the finished products (there are two; don't know if I should submit colored or non-colored) so ya know where I'm going.





A scene from Catching Rainbows, since I was feeling unfunny after Thanqol's masterful use of fabulous dragonfruit.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have the general guidelines I used. Each head is a circle, with a cross. The cross doesn't really help me with placement of features as far as proportion though; I instead use it to avoid constantly having the exact same face positions.
The spines, a great idea cribbed from Alterform, really added some dynamism. Then a vague outline of where the limbs would go, including the target wing. You'll not a jumbly mess in RD's head - that's not insecurity, it's the rest of her body so I didn't mess up any proportions.

Spoiler

Show

Here I show the face. The lines help me keep it pointed, but this is how I get the eyes and such; I carve them from aliens.

The trick is that an eye is always an orb, and the ocular cavity will always show through. So this big circle is the whole of the eye...

Spoiler

Show

And I'm just adding lids and lashes to define it's direction. You'll note at the end, that Fluttershy's eyes are "off" or "wrong". I took some liberty with the shape before realizing exactly how much of her face was defined by her eye shape, just like Celestia or Silver Lining (or Shimmer, since she's experienced a fanon-shift of eponyms).

Now, I need to get rid of that sultry little smirk. It is only a guideline, but it's going to subconsciously alter how I draw everything around it. Since I want a serene, loving look rather than a lusty, satisfied one (FINISH YOUR STORY PHOE!) I'll just wipe it completely.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have my replacement details. It looks more like Fluttershy (except those damned eyes! Argh!) and it only took a couple solid strokes to do it. What I really want Thanqol to see here is that I'm covering my sketch lines with one dark, solid one. It seems to work rather well for me.

Spoiler

Show

Here is the meat I've added to the sketchy skeleton from earlier. You can still see most of the guides (if faintly) and you'll notice that once I had a good base (head and body) I stopped following them so absolutely. I think in the end I added an extra wing for RD so the space wouldn't looks so empty.

Both non-occupied wings are erect, in accordance with some strange fanon that I cannot quite grasp.

So what do y'all think, of the colored versus non- business?

I... I... I... I... u-uh... y-y-y-you...

[darthbobcat]

I... I... I... I... u-uh... y-y-y-you...

Yay fanart.

[Grif]

there are more pages now than when last I checked... I do not understand why I find this surprising, though.
Anyway.

Artist Training Grounds Helping Thanqol Develop Edition

or

"Yeah, all these guidelines? We have a love-hate relationship"

Spoiler

Show

First, the finished products (there are two; don't know if I should submit colored or non-colored) so ya know where I'm going.





A scene from Catching Rainbows, since I was feeling unfunny after Thanqol's masterful use of fabulous dragonfruit.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have the general guidelines I used. Each head is a circle, with a cross. The cross doesn't really help me with placement of features as far as proportion though; I instead use it to avoid constantly having the exact same face positions.
The spines, a great idea cribbed from Alterform, really added some dynamism. Then a vague outline of where the limbs would go, including the target wing. You'll not a jumbly mess in RD's head - that's not insecurity, it's the rest of her body so I didn't mess up any proportions.

Spoiler

Show

Here I show the face. The lines help me keep it pointed, but this is how I get the eyes and such; I carve them from aliens.

The trick is that an eye is always an orb, and the ocular cavity will always show through. So this big circle is the whole of the eye...

Spoiler

Show

And I'm just adding lids and lashes to define it's direction. You'll note at the end, that Fluttershy's eyes are "off" or "wrong". I took some liberty with the shape before realizing exactly how much of her face was defined by her eye shape, just like Celestia or Silver Lining (or Shimmer, since she's experienced a fanon-shift of eponyms).

Now, I need to get rid of that sultry little smirk. It is only a guideline, but it's going to subconsciously alter how I draw everything around it. Since I want a serene, loving look rather than a lusty, satisfied one (FINISH YOUR STORY PHOE!) I'll just wipe it completely.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have my replacement details. It looks more like Fluttershy (except those damned eyes! Argh!) and it only took a couple solid strokes to do it. What I really want Thanqol to see here is that I'm covering my sketch lines with one dark, solid one. It seems to work rather well for me.

Spoiler

Show

Here is the meat I've added to the sketchy skeleton from earlier. You can still see most of the guides (if faintly) and you'll notice that once I had a good base (head and body) I stopped following them so absolutely. I think in the end I added an extra wing for RD so the space wouldn't looks so empty.

Both non-occupied wings are erect, in accordance with some strange fanon that I cannot quite grasp.

So what do y'all think, of the colored versus non- business?

I would vote for coloured. The blushes in the uncoloured one ... gave me a saucy vibe. Somehow the coloured one less so.

As DBC so eloquently put, "Yay, fanart,"

[darthbobcat]

I would vote for coloured. The blushes in the uncoloured one ... gave me a saucy vibe. Somehow the coloured one less so.

As DBC so eloquently put, "Yay, fanart,"

To be fair, there isn't any response I could make that would improve on it in terms of actual sentiment. It'd either turn into nitpicks or additional praise.

Hm. It occurs to me. Next Drawfriend/Writefriend (write my drawing/draw my fic) we are going to see SOOOOOOO much fanart of Luna vs. Progress.

Edit: ARGH. Y'know how we usually talk about fics we like? There's one on Equestria Daily that just grinds my gears: Nightfall at Sweet Apple Acres. It's sad without the feeling of accomplishment/overcoming something that a good sadfic gives you. Sure, I know the ponies will get old and die someday, but that doesn't mean I want to read about it!

... sorry, just had to vent. The new chapter with Rainbow Dash hit a lot closer to home than the first one. It pushed my buttons in the not-fun way, when I like to have them pushed in a fun way. The thing is basically an endorsement of suicide.

[Raz_Fox]

Spoiler

Show

Thus far the Equestria Daily pre-readers have been largely silent on the subject of your story, but I have informed them you're looking for real feedback and critique, and I've gotten assurances that they're working on it. Although it might not be until tomorrow afternoon before I have anything concrete to give you.

In lieu of anything like that, please allow me to explain to you why the Epilogue is not a necessity, but rather a bonus piece for you to perform if you feel the desire:

Your hints toward the meta plot are not as forceful as you might think. The only time anypony ever directly states that there are forces at work outside of the story with real force is when the Doctor asks Braeburn if he remembers Ponyville. But the narration pushes straight past it, because there's more important things going on right then and there and our narrator isn't the sort to ponder metafiction. He's made this abundantly clear through 6 chapters of writing. And as our storyteller, so too our story. As our story, so too our reader.

Have you ever watched Elfen Lied? The ending is "ambiguous", and I've heard complaints that it needs to fill in more details for it to be good. But this is stupid, because the visuals and the sounds and all the story elements of the previous episodes make it abundantly clear without actually having to say anything exactly what happens. And that's largely what's going on here. All of your hinting and poking and pawing actually builds up into the main plot and gets released in that same delicious ending. There was a play? All the ponies were playing roles in a magical game? Yeah, I knew that. I knew all of that before you told me. Or rather, before you told me twice. The audience applauded. In that single image and sentence I knew everything that would happen in your epilogue. I knew Dash's reaction, I knew Braeburn would go after her. I knew it would work out. I knew they were in Ponyville. I even knew this was all Pinkie's doing. All you have to do is look, and you see the epilogue reflected in the main narrative. This is part of the reason why the epilogue feels so flat in comparison - the job's been done. The WOW is over, and even the kiss has happened right before our eyes. It's all so potent that actually reading about the events it hints at seem like a letdown.

This is one of Phoe's Rules For Writing: Find the best image to end on, and have the courage to end on it. If you've hit on it properly, you will be as clear and concise as anypony ever has without ever needing to take the time to say everything you're thinking. I hope this has been useful insight for you.

edit before posting - You might like to hear Sethisto's response to your story:

>Trixie dressed up like a persian

Sign me up!

Spoiler

Show

One day, I will have the ability to perform such cutting literary analysis. I swear it upon Thanqol's grave.

I guess that, in a way, I'm scared that I'll have the All Hallow's Night problem again - bronies wondering what in the world's happening with that ending, and why does Whooves know about Ponyville, and what's up with Pinkie Pie, and there's always that desire to show off how much of a clever-pants I've been, having a play within a play, having the stories all nestled up like Russian dolls.

But now we're getting into ending fatigue, and I think that you're right, as usual. I just want to make sure that my readers don't get lost again, because the gents here at GiantITP have a tendency to be smarter about this sort of thing than your average reader. "And then there was applause" could be interpreted as just being in-universe, or an artistic license, or a pithy ending.

...I thought I'd isolated the problems with the ending. I was writing it better, hammering down a better setting, not adding in that unnecessary drama, trying to wind it down- but no, I'm easily convinced, one way or another. Ah, that I had a strong will, and the right course to sail it by.

I'll sleep it over, but... honestly, I'm feeling more and more that the epilogue isn't necessary. Confound this Phoe, she drives me to trim down my plot.


As for Seth's reaction... well, honestly, I want to see some fanart of this story. I want some baaaaaadly.

[AlterForm]

there are more pages now than when last I checked... I do not understand why I find this surprising, though.
Anyway.

Artist Training Grounds Helping Thanqol Develop Edition

or

"Yeah, all these guidelines? We have a love-hate relationship"

Spoiler

Show

First, the finished products (there are two; don't know if I should submit colored or non-colored) so ya know where I'm going.





A scene from Catching Rainbows, since I was feeling unfunny after Thanqol's masterful use of fabulous dragonfruit.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have the general guidelines I used. Each head is a circle, with a cross. The cross doesn't really help me with placement of features as far as proportion though; I instead use it to avoid constantly having the exact same face positions.
The spines, a great idea cribbed from Alterform, really added some dynamism. Then a vague outline of where the limbs would go, including the target wing. You'll not a jumbly mess in RD's head - that's not insecurity, it's the rest of her body so I didn't mess up any proportions.

Spoiler

Show

Here I show the face. The lines help me keep it pointed, but this is how I get the eyes and such; I carve them from aliens.

The trick is that an eye is always an orb, and the ocular cavity will always show through. So this big circle is the whole of the eye...

Spoiler

Show

And I'm just adding lids and lashes to define it's direction. You'll note at the end, that Fluttershy's eyes are "off" or "wrong". I took some liberty with the shape before realizing exactly how much of her face was defined by her eye shape, just like Celestia or Silver Lining (or Shimmer, since she's experienced a fanon-shift of eponyms).

Now, I need to get rid of that sultry little smirk. It is only a guideline, but it's going to subconsciously alter how I draw everything around it. Since I want a serene, loving look rather than a lusty, satisfied one (FINISH YOUR STORY PHOE!) I'll just wipe it completely.

Spoiler

Show

Here we have my replacement details. It looks more like Fluttershy (except those damned eyes! Argh!) and it only took a couple solid strokes to do it. What I really want Thanqol to see here is that I'm covering my sketch lines with one dark, solid one. It seems to work rather well for me.

Spoiler

Show

Here is the meat I've added to the sketchy skeleton from earlier. You can still see most of the guides (if faintly) and you'll notice that once I had a good base (head and body) I stopped following them so absolutely. I think in the end I added an extra wing for RD so the space wouldn't looks so empty.

Both non-occupied wings are erect, in accordance with some strange fanon that I cannot quite grasp.

So what do y'all think, of the colored versus non- business?

I like the colored much better. The uncolored version has a roughness to it, but it's an uncontrolled roughness as opposed to an artistic one. I should hope that makes sense; I can't think of much better words to describe it than that.

Also, glad to hear somepony else found my little tidbits of wisdom useful. I don't want that effort going to waste.

Which, tangentially, brings to mind another thing. I have a couple art guides to put together (perspective orb and eyes) and Dinnertime to wrap up as well. Lessee...90 minutes until I should be asleep. Yeah, I think I can manage that.

[EDIT]: Alas, I misjudged. Dinnertime shall go unfinished for one more night. Luckily, there's no chance my gaming group will call another last-minute game for tomorrow, so I have pretty much all day to get it done. ~yay

[Grif]

Is it unnatural for me to squeal with glee at the prospect of more Luna x Abacus? Because it's totally cute.

[SiuiS]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah BROWSER YOU RESET I HATE YOU SO MUCH AAARGH-

[TECHINCAL DIFFICULTIES | ENJOY FLUTTERCOLA]

Ok. Better now.

You all can blame Thanqol for that *glowers*

[darthbobcat]

Spoiler

Show

One day, I will have the ability to perform such cutting literary analysis. I swear it upon Thanqol's grave.

I guess that, in a way, I'm scared that I'll have the All Hallow's Night problem again - bronies wondering what in the world's happening with that ending, and why does Whooves know about Ponyville, and what's up with Pinkie Pie, and there's always that desire to show off how much of a clever-pants I've been, having a play within a play, having the stories all nestled up like Russian dolls.

But now we're getting into ending fatigue, and I think that you're right, as usual. I just want to make sure that my readers don't get lost again, because the gents here at GiantITP have a tendency to be smarter about this sort of thing than your average reader. "And then there was applause" could be interpreted as just being in-universe, or an artistic license, or a pithy ending.

...I thought I'd isolated the problems with the ending. I was writing it better, hammering down a better setting, not adding in that unnecessary drama, trying to wind it down- but no, I'm easily convinced, one way or another. Ah, that I had a strong will, and the right course to sail it by.

I'll sleep it over, but... honestly, I'm feeling more and more that the epilogue isn't necessary. Confound this Phoe, she drives me to trim down my plot.


As for Seth's reaction... well, honestly, I want to see some fanart of this story. I want some baaaaaadly.

Me, smart? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. I am one of the worst readers you'll ever meet. If it isn't spelled out, I'll very often miss it. Mostly because I go for stories based on their fun dialogue and characters, and if a theme occurs to me, it's entirely on accident.

Spoiler

Show

But yeah. When it was just Dash Kiss, The End, I didn't get that it was supposed to be like a play. I, in my literalist way, said, "Aha, it was a pure Alternate Universe after all!" I assumed that Doctor Whooves was just having a weird Timey Wimey moment when he mentioned Ponyville.

Picture unrelated.

Spoiler

Show

[Kyouhen]

Uh, SiuiS? You still alive over there? Lots of quotes but nothing to say about them.

Also silly Derpy, the banana goes in the other ear!