When you play the Game of Thrones...

[TheSummoner]

Except she didn't. She killed one warlord (may as well have for Drogo anyways) and one unborn child. Every single Dothraki warrior who followed Drogo is still out there and in time, they'll all end up following some new Khal. They're still going to go about their rape, pillage, burn lifestyle. The only thing that has changed is the one at the head of the group.

[Eldan]

Who was that guy who took Arya? Seems like he was someone loyal to Ned, but I can't remember seeing him before...

He was the recruiter of the Nightswatch. Forgot his name, but Ned spoke to him when he was hand and gave him some support.

[Closet_Skeleton]

There's something off about a 'gritty' series that doesn't have a single ugly whore.

[Eldan]

Well, the thing to remember is that almost every single character we have met so far (I can think of four exceptions) is a rich noble who'd be able to afford non-ugly whores.

[J.Gellert]

Except she didn't. She killed one warlord (may as well have for Drogo anyways) and one unborn child. Every single Dothraki warrior who followed Drogo is still out there and in time, they'll all end up following some new Khal. They're still going to go about their rape, pillage, burn lifestyle. The only thing that has changed is the one at the head of the group.

Consider what the mongols did with the right "head of the group".

I am completely with the herbswoman on this. She even warned Daenerys beforehand - even a proper warning, it wasn't the silly "I warned you" of Littlefinger.

Not only would I have done the same in her place, but really... The fact that Daenerys even trusted her (or even "saved" her in the first place) is a testament to her naivete.

Of course the herbswoman's death was deserved, too. She probably understood this would happen anyway.

On the other hand, with the murderers/pillagers/rapists gone, perhaps now I can root for the obviously magical side in this war And for badass Mormont.

[hamlet]

So... a truly excellent series which is better than the source material, and which reinvigorates a genre on television instead of on the silver screen?

Sounds good to me. Bring in the extended editions of the episodes.

No.

No, not at all.

NO!!!!

More like an adaptation that threw all subtlety and thoughtfullness out the window in exchange for action scenes and, in the case of the HBO show, licentiousness mistaking lust for gritty.

[Axolotl]

And this is a reason for her having less screen time why?

Because the less time I spend watching Amory Lorch, Gregor Clegane, Vargo Hoat and Roose Bolton then the better I'll be able to sleep at night. Seriously the characters she meets reads like a countdown of the most evil people in Westeros.

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The biggest problem isn't her kill count as far as I'm concerned. The bigger problem is they could show every kill in season 2, and still skip about half her chapters. The majority of her time in book 2 is spent wandering across the country side, never really getting where she wants to go. I could honestly see her role in next season limited to 4-5 episodes rather than all of them. As much as I love Maisie Williams and Arya, her book 2 story just isn't all that great, and to fit everything into 10 episodes again they have to make major cuts somewhere... her chapters are prime cutting material. Though we could probably cut out about 5 chapters worth of tyrion and shae having sex and still have more than enough to fill HBO's dwarf sex quota

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I disagree, while not moving the overall plot forward at all, Arya's chapters in books 2 and 3 are very important. Partly for establising Arya as a character but mainly because they provide a different pespective on the overall conflict. Most of the other characters we see are planning the war, their chapters focus on court intrigue, strategy and the web of alliances and betrayals. Arya's chapters in books 2 and 3 (and Brienne's in 4) contrast this by showing what those descisions mean on the groud. They show just how brutal the war is for the common people.

You can lose most of Arya's chapters without losing the plot but ultimately I think you'd miss much of what makes the series great, the moral ambiguity and the great depiction of a heavily feudal society.

[hamlet]

Well, the thing to remember is that almost every single character we have met so far (I can think of four exceptions) is a rich noble who'd be able to afford non-ugly whores.

And that everybody in the show (and I mean EVERYBODY) has gotten an attractiveness upgrade for TV.

Ian Glenn, the dud playing Jorah Mormont, is quite handsome (or so I'm told), but the chracter in the book is described as older, balding, and kind of homely. Above all, hairy.

Sandor Clegane's scars, in the book, are much more pronounced and hideous than they are in the show.

Yoren, again, in the book, is quite hideous, actually, and smelly. He's also a chronic chewer of a particular leaf that turns your teeth and spite blood red and is quite nasty looking.

Hell, even Eddard's face is left kind of nebulous, but is said by some to be nothing too special.

Fact is, for TV, we want "pretty" people.

[Eldan]

Oh, true. But even if you subtract the basic actor prettiness, they made the whores good looking. But I'd say that's justified.

[hamlet]

Oh, true. But even if you subtract the basic actor prettiness, they made the whores good looking. But I'd say that's justified.

Yeah. When you're making borderline pr0n, it's crucial to have pretty people in those parts.

[Imperial Psycho]

Except she didn't. She killed one warlord (may as well have for Drogo anyways) and one unborn child. Every single Dothraki warrior who followed Drogo is still out there and in time, they'll all end up following some new Khal. They're still going to go about their rape, pillage, burn lifestyle. The only thing that has changed is the one at the head of the group.

Well, I think it was said in the books, that the horde was split up, with a bunch of new khals taking their share. Maybe eventually they'll reunite as one horde, but not without a fair bit of in-fighting, and therefore much less of a threat to anyone than the full horde under Drogo or Rhaego.

[TheSummoner]

Sandor Clegane's scars, in the book, are much more pronounced and hideous than they are in the show.

Atleast with this one, I read somewhere that they tried to make the scars worse, but his actor couldn't even see when they did. They had to reduce it.

Well, I think it was said in the books, that the horde was split up, with a bunch of new khals taking their share. Maybe eventually they'll reunite as one horde, but not without a fair bit of in-fighting, and therefore much less of a threat to anyone than the full horde under Drogo or Rhaego.

Or alternatively, instead of one large group of rape, pillage, burn, you now have several smaller ones running around. Instead of taking out one village at a time, now several can suffer during the same span of time.

[Keld Denar]

Cersei continues to be creepy.

Seriously, does Cersei ever hook up with someone who isn't a blood relative? She mentioned that she pretty much never slept with Robert because he was drunk and otherwise she did...other things. Thats just...squick!

[hamlet]

Seriously, does Cersei ever hook up with someone who isn't a blood relative? She mentioned that she pretty much never slept with Robert because he was drunk and otherwise she did...other things. Thats just...squick!

Cersei is sleeping with Lancel because he looks like Jamie. She's sleeping with Jamie because, she says, she's deeply in love with him and he is her sould mate.

It says a lot about the books that, for a very long time, Cersei and Jamie's relationship was one of the very few truly loving and semi-functional relationships going. However, as things go on, it's kind of shown that the reasons Cersei is in that relationship are . . . not quite so high minded. I seem to recall that it has a lot more to do with the fact that Jamie looks a lot like her than anything else.

[Keld Denar]

And the toilet keeps swirling lower and lower into the filth...

Narsacistic AND incestuous. Oh joy.

[TheSummoner]

So what you're saying is that if Cersei could, she'd just sleep with herself, but since there's only one of her, she has to settle for the next best thing?

[hamlet]

So what you're saying is that if Cersei could, she'd just sleep with herself, but since there's only one of her, she has to settle for the next best thing?

And, to put it delicately, because she lacks the proper . . . accoutrements shall we say . . .

Yes. But this is speculation on my part based on, especially, what happens in her head as the novels progress. In the first book and the show, it really is just a loving, caring, if incestuous relationship.

[The_JJ]

So what you're saying is that if Cersei could, she'd just sleep with herself, but since there's only one of her, she has to settle for the next best thing?

A fair amount of it, at least, is that fact that she's technically the eldest, so she could have been the handsome well respected knight, heir to the wealthiest and arguable most powerful house in the land.

Instead she gets to be a bargaining chip. A secondary bargaining chip, actually, after the man she was supposed to marry ran off with the girl her husband actually wanted to marry.

[Zmflavius]

So what you're saying is that if Cersei could, she'd just sleep with herself, but since there's only one of her, she has to settle for the next best thing?

She would, but her palms aren't nearly as nice as Jaime.

[Axolotl]

Are there any maps that show the whole planet? Or at least show just where places like Braavos and Valyria are in relation to Westeros and whatever continent the Dothraki come from.

[hamlet]

Are there any maps that show the whole planet? Or at least show just where places like Braavos and Valyria are in relation to Westeros and whatever continent the Dothraki come from.

No, not really. Currently, only maps of Westeros itself, and a very few maps of some of the areas that Dany is visiting, but not all, are available in the novels. But that's really it.

You can find them on a Google Images search real easy.

[Axolotl]

No, not really. Currently, only maps of Westeros itself, and a very few maps of some of the areas that Dany is visiting, but not all, are available in the novels. But that's really it.

Pity, I really want to try a get a feel for how the continent with Quarth and Slaver Bay is laid out.

By the way I'm rereading some of the books and I'm really confused by how everyone keeps talking about Rhaegar as if he's a really nice guy when he's the one who caused a massive civil war (and indirectly caused the War of Five Kings as well). It's just odd how much people seem to like him.

[hamlet]

Pity, I really want to try a get a feel for how the continent with Quarth and Slaver Bay is laid out.

Expected in the upcoming Dance With Dragons, actually. Or so rumor says.

By the way I'm rereading some of the books and I'm really confused by how everyone keeps talking about Rhaegar as if he's a really nice guy when he's the one who caused a massive civil war (and indirectly caused the War of Five Kings as well). It's just odd how much people seem to like him.

Just because he started the war through his actions doesn't mean he's not a nice guy. Or a role model for that matter.

[Dienekes]

By the way I'm rereading some of the books and I'm really confused by how everyone keeps talking about Rhaegar as if he's a really nice guy when he's the one who caused a massive civil war (and indirectly caused the War of Five Kings as well). It's just odd how much people seem to like him.

Nice people can make stupid decisions. Including world changing stupid decisions that involve taking someone's fiance when you're already married and refusing to admit you're in the wrong as your kingdom goes to war, or let the girl go once her father and brother were murdered by the insane king.

Yeah, I have little love for Rhaegar and/or Lyanna, learn to keep it in your pants people.

[Axolotl]

Just because he started the war through his actions doesn't mean he's not a nice guy. Or a role model for that matter.

He kidnapped someone else's fiance while being married to someone else. That alone is pretty bad but he also must have known what Robert and Brandon's reaction would be (and how Aerys would respond). I mean even Cersei had a better reason.

[DomaDoma]

They have the leeway to romanticize Rhaegar; for most people, Robert's Rebellion was really more about Aerys. Rhaegar probably would have been a reasonably just king.

[Dienekes]

He kidnapped someone else's fiance while being married to someone else. That alone is pretty bad but he also must have known what Robert and Brandon's reaction would be (and how Aerys would respond). I mean even Cersei had a better reason.

Kidnapped is iffy. The only person who claims that Lyanna was kidnapped (as far as I remember) was Robert, who idolizes Lyanna and believes the two were in love. Everyone else seems to claim that Rhaegar was an ok dude.

Now, no matter what the circumstance it was a stupid decision and personally because of how bone-headed it was even viewed through the most positive shades I find it hard to actually pity the pair.

Now Rhaegar's children and his poor wife. What was done to them was terrible.

[Axolotl]

Kidnapped is iffy. The only person who claims that Lyanna was kidnapped (as far as I remember) was Robert, who idolizes Lyanna and believes the two were in love. Everyone else seems to claim that Rhaegar was an ok dude.

And Brandon Stark who certainly considered it kidnapping or at least he though it was bad enough that he demanded to kill Rhaegar.

[hamlet]

And Brandon Stark who certainly considered it kidnapping or at least he though it was bad enough that he demanded to kill Rhaegar.

Tecnically, he demanded to face Rheagar in open combat. Slight difference.

I think it's dangerous to speculate on the morality of the issue simply because all we have is speculation, really. We just don't have enough data to make a good judgement on what happened.

[Seerow]

Tecnically, he demanded to face Rheagar in open combat. Slight difference.

I think it's dangerous to speculate on the morality of the issue simply because all we have is speculation, really. We just don't have enough data to make a good judgement on what happened.

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I'm actually expecting an info dump in regards to this from Barristan in ADWD. Given book 3 ends with him promising to tell Dany about her family, and he was in position to know most everything, we'll probably hear a lot more about how good/bad Rhaegar was, how he related to Aerys, etc.