Dragon Age II, Part 2: The Qun is pretty deep, you wouldn't understand it.

[Zevox]

Anybody played Mark of the Assassin yet? I'm excited, since I'm downloading it now.

It's out already? Sheesh, I thought it was another few weeks yet. Welp, guess I have something other than Starcraft 2 to play. (Actually, I still need to play Legacy as well...)

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's out already? Sheesh, I thought it was another few weeks yet. Welp, guess I have something other than Starcraft 2 to play. (Actually, I still need to play Legacy as well...)

Zevox

It came out yesterday, at least here in the States. I know how you feel though. I've been busy with Fallout: New Vegas at the moment, though I'm gonna make an exception for this! I'm so excited!

[Giggling Ghast]

Yeah, it came out earlier today. So far the reviews have been pretty good. A few gripes here and there, but nothing too unusual.

[Avilan the Grey]

Yeah, it came out earlier today. So far the reviews have been pretty good. A few gripes here and there, but nothing too unusual.

Well is it worth the money to talk to Felicia Day for a while? That IS the main draw of the DLC after all.

The other DLC, is that worth the money?

Despite my gripes I will probably try to restart DAII after I am done with Origins.

[VanBuren]

since Legacy was said to be the best Bioware DLC since Lair of the Shadow Broker, that tells you something.

Eh? Legacy received very mixed reviews. Even worse if you look at fan reception.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii-legacy

[Giggling Ghast]

I'll say this, Avilan: though I've bought both pieces of DLC, I haven't played more than a few minutes of either of them yet.

If you really hated DA2, neither will redeem the game in your eyes. But Legacy has been called the best DLC put out by Bioware since Lair of the Shadow Broker, and now some people claim Mark of the Assassin is even better.

EDIT: Sorry I screwed up your post, VanBuren.

[VanBuren]

I don't see where you're getting that. Critical reception has not been especially kind to Legacy.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'll say this, Avilan: though I've bought both pieces of DLC, I haven't played more than a few minutes of either of them yet.

If you really hated DA2, neither will redeem the game in your eyes. But Legacy has been called the best DLC put out by Bioware since Lair of the Shadow Broker, and now some people claim Mark of the Assassin is even better.

Good to know, thank you.
Maybe I should try restarting it first, and see how I feel.

[Giggling Ghast]

I don't see where you're getting that. Critical reception has not been especially kind to Legacy.

Oh, I'm just going by the stuff on the BSN and the stuff I've heard here. While the BSN is a pit of evil, I find they're a better gauge of quality for this stuff than Metacritic. (I generally don't care for their grading system, and the fan reviews are a joke.) And you guys generally have intelligent things to say.

Yes, some game reviewers didn't give Legacy a high grade. But I wonder if that wasn't compensating for "over-praising" the virtues of DA2. (There's no such word, but I can't think of a better one.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

HAving just played through Mark of the Assassin, I have this to say:

Spoiler

Show

Overall, an enjoyable experience. Judging by what I saw, it seems like there are sidequests tailored to whatever companions you bring along. I'll have to see if there are other companions who trigger unique things like the stone pirates who needed Isabela to free them.

The stealth portion was frustrating, as I knew it would be. Mandatory steath interludes never go well for me. I had to keep reloading to get through it without getting caught once. It frustrated me in Arrival for ME2 as well.

If you're not a fan of puzzles, this isn't for you. It'll test your math skills, pattern skills, etc.

There seems to be another "unique set" of armor for Hawke, but I could only find the boots. Anyone else find the rest of the pieces?

Storywise, the DLC was a great blend of comedy and drama. The party was especially fun because of all the familiar faces you saw: Teagan and Isolde, Leliana, Lady Elegant, the Comtesse de Launcet and Seneschal Bran with his "friend" from the Blooming Rose. Plus, certain enemies, like the Ghasts, came completely out of nowhere. They live underground? How are they not tainted? The ending felt a bit rushed. You fought Prosper and Leopold and that was it.

Also, has anyone tried leaving Tallis instead of following her? It just seems meanspirited, but maybe I'm still thinking in terms of Veronica from Fallout: New Vegas.

[Giggling Ghast]

Aveline also gets a personal quest if you bring her.

Also, can't you fight through the stealth parts? I was under the impression you could.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Aveline gets a personal quest if you bring her.

Also, can't you fight through the stealth parts? I was under the impression you could.

Not to my knowledge. When spotted by a guard and caught, you're basically "rewound" to the last safe spot you were in, and have to start over from there. But if you want the achievement, you have to do it completely without getting spotted once, which means save scumming may be necessary.

[Giggling Ghast]

The stealth parts have been getting mixed reactions. Oh well. As Parson Gotti once said, "we try things. Sometimes they even work."

What Act did you play this in, Zousha?

(To answer your other question, there's apparently a full armor set available in the DLC. Don't ask me where.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Post Campaign, meaning I'd played through the ending. I'm thinking of starting it over though, and playing from BEFORE then so I can use the sweet swag from it in the ending. I'd been complaining before that I couldn't find a good-looking sword and shield (The Hawke's Key from Legacy has always seemed pretty ugly to me, except maybe in Staff form, but my Hawke was a warrior), but the pair you can get in the DLC look pretty cool.

And I'm not saying the stealth section was bad. It was simple and doable after a few tries. Mandatory stealth sequences and me just have a poor history dating back to Ocarina of Time. The stealth sequence here definitely had a place here, though, as it starts out as a heist story (I won't spoil the major twist). It seems that a lot of this borrowed from Kasumi's DLC, come to think of it.

[Calemyr]

I don't see where you're getting that. Critical reception has not been especially kind to Legacy.

My major gripes were the non-leveling gear (and they knew that was important, it was a major element of their gear DLCs - the Key, at least, should definitely have leveled with you) and the contractual blindness in the ending - how does Hawke fail to miss the signs?

But the real reason Legacy was treated poorly was the fact that what it was was a DA2 DLC. There aren't many games that elicit as strong a reaction as DA2. Reviewers either treat it as a very original approach to RPG storytelling with an interesting cast and greatly improved combat, or the second coming of ET. Legacy does a LOT to improve upon the gripes people have had with the game itself, but still can't shake the fact that it's tied to a game people either love or hate.

For the record, while I agree a lot of the Key models are pretty ugly, the one used for the bow looks really darn cool.

Haven't gotten Mark of the Assassin yet.

[Mx.Silver]

Yes, some game reviewers didn't give Legacy a high grade. But I wonder if that wasn't compensating for "over-praising" the virtues of DA2. (There's no such word, but I can't think of a better one.)

Belaud, adulate, exaggerate...

In any case, given that DA2 has probably been the target of more vitriolic hatred than any oth sequel to a Bioware game since KOTOR 2 I'm a little sceptical of that hypothesis. More likely Legacy just wasn't particularly good. It's not bad but nothing about it makes it particularly worth purchasing.

[Zevox]

So, today I started playing the DLC. Figured I'd start with Legacy, since it came out first - and sheesh, it wound up taking much of my day. That was a much bigger DLC than I expected. Practically worth its cost in length alone. Was also nice to go back and play my mage character again, though I wish I could purchase the respec potions post-game, as I find I've gotten better at the game since that first file.

Spoiler

Show

As for the DLC itself, I think it's pretty good. Certainly not Lair of the Shadowbroker level, nor Stolen Memories or Stone Prisoner, but up there with the best of Bioware's DLC besides those three. Great length, good fights, nice final boss battle, okay side quests. I like how they worked in more hints about the nature and origins of the Darkspawn via the boss (whose name I've already forgotten), as well as leaving questions about the obvious similarities between him and the Architect (physically, and in their status as Darkspawn with free will, individual personality, and powerful magic) - though I hope they don't end up confining those mysteries to DLC only, as they're more than worthy of being part of the series' core stories. Plus it was nice learning a little about your father - especially the surprising fact that he was a blood mage.

The main story of the DLC was less than impressive sadly, but at least working in the lore they did kept things interesting.

I get the feeling that I'd get some interesting conversations if I bring Carver and Varric along on that quest (I had Aveline, Isabela, and Merril this time), so I may reload a save from before doing it just to do that. I'll probably turn the difficulty down to normal for that though - no point in drawing out the slog through all those enemies when I just want to see the dialogue.

On that same note though, I do wish I had gotten a longer conversation with Carver after returning home at the end there. It was nice being able to ask him why he joined the Templar, but I'd like to have the chance to actually discuss it with him, not just listen to him give a short speech about it.

Oh, but the unique weapon you get? It seems like the special abilities you can add to it were designed mainly for melee weapons and not altered for the staff version, which kind of sucks. Plus the lack of rune slots is just terrible - even a much weaker staff is worth using if it has one rune slot for a Devastation Rune. +10% damage to all your spells is worth more to a mage by far than higher staff damage and 5% activation rate special effects.

Anyway, I'll be playing the new DLC tomorrow. Need a bit of a break after Legacy took me so much longer than expected.

Zevox

[horngeek]

Playing through Mark of the Assassin, and haven't had real impressions yet...

But two things. First, Hawke is involved in the 'random conversations'! Which is nice.

Also: Merril just commented 'I was starting to think every bit of Kirkwall looked the same.

...O.o

Bioware, I forgive you for that flaw, for you have ragged on yourselves about it.

[Zevox]

Also: Merril just commented 'I was starting to think every bit of Kirkwall looked the same.

...O.o

Bioware, I forgive you for that flaw, for you have ragged on yourselves about it.

Heh. Reminds me of one of Shale's lines from Origins: "The only 'wonder of Thedas' is how everything got to be so very brown." Nice to see another joke of that variety in DA2.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

I get the feeling that I'd get some interesting conversations if I bring Carver and Varric along on that quest (I had Aveline, Isabela, and Merril this time), so I may reload a save from before doing it just to do that. I'll probably turn the difficulty down to normal for that though - no point in drawing out the slog through all those enemies when I just want to see the dialogue.

Yeah, the siblings add a lot of dialogue, as does Varric. Anders is also a good candidate, as he is a Warden and being near Corypheus screws with his head.

Heh. Reminds me of one of Shale's lines from Origins: "The only 'wonder of Thedas' is how everything got to be so very brown." Nice to see another joke of that variety in DA2.

Merrill: Ferelden wasn't that brown. The dirt and rocks gave it character.

[Zevox]

Yeah, the siblings add a lot of dialogue, as does Varric. Anders is also a good candidate, as he is a Warden and being near Corypheus screws with his head.

Unfortunately I'm doing this post-game, so no Anders. At lest not with this file, or my second one. We'll see whether I ever get around to playing Legacy on my third. Future files will be the most likely situation for me bringing Anders along.

Zevox

[Joran]

HAving just played through Mark of the Assassin, I have this to say:

Spoiler

Show

Overall, an enjoyable experience. Judging by what I saw, it seems like there are sidequests tailored to whatever companions you bring along. I'll have to see if there are other companions who trigger unique things like the stone pirates who needed Isabela to free them.

The stealth portion was frustrating, as I knew it would be. Mandatory steath interludes never go well for me. I had to keep reloading to get through it without getting caught once. It frustrated me in Arrival for ME2 as well.

If you're not a fan of puzzles, this isn't for you. It'll test your math skills, pattern skills, etc.

There seems to be another "unique set" of armor for Hawke, but I could only find the boots. Anyone else find the rest of the pieces?

Storywise, the DLC was a great blend of comedy and drama. The party was especially fun because of all the familiar faces you saw: Teagan and Isolde, Leliana, Lady Elegant, the Comtesse de Launcet and Seneschal Bran with his "friend" from the Blooming Rose. Plus, certain enemies, like the Ghasts, came completely out of nowhere. They live underground? How are they not tainted? The ending felt a bit rushed. You fought Prosper and Leopold and that was it.

Also, has anyone tried leaving Tallis instead of following her? It just seems meanspirited, but maybe I'm still thinking in terms of Veronica from Fallout: New Vegas.

Just finished it, I think it's about on par with Legacy. Enjoyable but not Lair of the Shadow Broker. Nice bits of lore, nice cameos, pretty fun.

One word of advice. If you intend to play Mark of the Assassin, play it first BEFORE watching the web series. One major surprise is revealed immediately in the web series, which caught me completely by surprise in the DLC. Tallis is

Spoiler

Show

a Qunari. I knew she was an assassin, but not that she was a Qunari. I also keep forgetting Tallis isn't her name, but rather her rank/title like Sten.

I liked the little bits of Orlesian culture that we get. I definitely liked the reminder that Qunari is a religion, not a race. Qunari double agents throughout Thedas is very troubling.

I got all the pieces of the armor. You need to finish all three puzzles, then finish the middle puzzle around the flame. Every time you solve one of the three middle puzzles, the flame gets smaller and reveals treasure.

The stealth portions really didn't work. It was a nice attempt, but it felt really clunky and forced.

Leliana and Tallis know each other and do not like each other... interesting...

I formed team elf for the DLC. Lack of a healer led to many, many pots being used and one particular mage kept instagibbing me. So very annoying. I have a dagger rogue, so Tallis just replicated everything I could do, except that she can throw her knives and attack at range! Too bad all her skills are melee ones.

Not really much for Fenris or Merrill to say sadly. I did like one conversation (paraphrase).

Fenris: "The meeting of the Dalish is next year"
Merrill: "That's odd, I haven't heard anything about it."
Fenris: "Maybe that's because I still have elves willing to talk to me."
Merrill: "You've been saving that line for awhile, haven't you?"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hey, Joran?

Spoiler

Show

Where'd you find the armor pieces? I only found the boots.

[Joran]

Hey, Joran?

Spoiler

Show

Where'd you find the armor pieces? I only found the boots.

Spoiler

Show

I think I found the pieces in the Vault after you break out of prison. You have to solve the three puzzles in the Vault, then solve the fire puzzle in the middle. The fire puzzle requires all three other puzzles solved before you can do it.

Match up the symbols to the people with masks in the paintings.

Now that I slept on the DLC... I'm not really sure why the Champion would take on the Duke... Maybe she just has a thing for elves.

[Zevox]

Haven't finished Mark of the Assassin just yet, but I'm very much so liking the humor in it.

Spoiler

Show

Tallis: So, "Champion of Kirkwall." Fancy title.
Hawke: "Only Person in Kirkwall Not Completely Insane" was considered as well.

Hawke: You know a nug mating call?
Tallis: You go elbow-deep in wyvern dung and I'm the strange one?

Hawke: Have you met my friends? They're all crazy, and most of them are killers.

Helps quite a bit that my first Hawke has the sarcastic personality.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Spoiler

Show

I think I found the pieces in the Vault after you break out of prison. You have to solve the three puzzles in the Vault, then solve the fire puzzle in the middle. The fire puzzle requires all three other puzzles solved before you can do it.

Match up the symbols to the people with masks in the paintings.

Now that I slept on the DLC... I'm not really sure why the Champion would take on the Duke... Maybe she just has a thing for elves.

Spoiler

Show

I figured out what was going on. The first time I did it, I tried to solve all three tile puzzles at once, but that only deactivated the first one. I had to do them one at a time in order to get all of them to go down. As for the armor itself (for warriors, anyway) I'm...ambivalent about it. It's visually identical to the Act I armor set. While I thought that set looked cool, would it have killed BioWare to come up with something a bit more unique? They did so well with the Armor of the Fortress in Legacy.

[Zevox]

Alright, finished Mark of the Assassin. All in all, I'd say it was quite good - better than Legacy, though not up to Stolen Memories level. Not sure whether I'd call it as good as Stone Prisoner - the mission was certainly better, but the fact that Tallis is only a temporary companion compared to Shale being a permanent one hampers the comparison. I'd say it's worth the $10 price tag.

Spoiler

Show

It had a much better overall story than Legacy, Tallis was a good character to have along, a good pace and level design, a good final boss battle - between this and Legacy I'm pleased to see that Bioware are playing with making boss battles a bit different than just stand-up fights, adding multiple phases to them. I had an incident during the final fight here where the Duke and Leopold wound up clinging to the edge of the cliff, having nearly charged straight off it - not sure whether that was pre-scripted or a result of him doing his charge move too close to the cliff, but I hope it's the latter.

As mentioned before, the humor was quite good too.

The couple of branching paths are interesting as well - I'm actually curious to go back and see what happens when you go back into the house after escaping prison rather than escape through the caves, or what happens if you leave Tallis.

Speaking of, that was a bit of a hard decision for me. I don't especially like the thought of helping Qunari, and her refusal to explain what was up made agreeing to help her hard. I ultimately figured that she had so far seemed pretty trustworthy and earnest, aside from hiding her status as a Qunari from me (and really, I can't say I blame her for that), so what she was saying about how many lives rested on the matter was likely true, and I couldn't walk away from that. Plus if it turned out to be lying I figured I might be able to betray her at the last minute.

The stealth portion was surprisingly good - I would not have expected stealth of that kind to work that well in an RPG. Only got caught once, when I was entering a hall completely unaware there was a guard there. Not sure how I feel about getting caught having almost no consequences - unrealistic and a bit annoying, but then having it have big consequences could have wound up even more annoying.

I liked quite a lot of the small touches too, like all the familiar faces at the party, and Leliana and Tallis recognizing each other (and apparently being uncomfortable around each other).

I kinda wish Tallis would join you more permanently though, so I could use her outside of her mission in future play throughs. Pity that.

Oh, I did notice that the animation for killing the Alpha Wyvern as a mage is still just cutting it with your staff though. That was disappointing. And the animation for beating the Duke and Leopold was a bit ambiguous - you had fire in front of/around you, but it seemed like you pushed him around you and off the cliff like a physical character would anyway. So yeah, wish they had paid more attention to those.

Oh, and on a minor gripe with this and Legacy alike: would it kill them to include some equipment that's worth a damn for post-game players? Everything I pick up is inferior to what I already have - for weapons because of lack of rune slots, for armor because of that plus not being able to compete with the Champion's Armor's set bonus, and for accessories because most of them are the same randomized junk you pick up the entire game and the rest just aren't well-designed. Like the "Heart of the Many" you get for beating the DLC, which is a necklace giving +4 strength, +4 dexterity, and +4 magic - obviously an effort to make it useful for every class, which results in it being useless for every class when compared to necklaces that are more specialized towards helping one class.

Zevox

[horngeek]

Everything I pick up is inferior to what I already have - for weapons because of lack of rune slots, for armor because of that plus not being able to compete with the Champion's Armor's set bonus, and for accessories because most of them are the same randomized junk you pick up the entire game and the rest just aren't well-designed.

To be honest, I get the impression that the Champion's Armor is designed to be as appealing as possible.

Although, it looks cool enough that I'd use it anyway.

[Zevox]

To be honest, I get the impression that the Champion's Armor is designed to be as appealing as possible.

Although, it looks cool enough that I'd use it anyway.

Really? I think it looks rather stupid myself. I mean, you've got oversized not-quite-spikes-but-still-silly-pointy bits on shoulder/arm armor no matter which version you have, warriors and rogues get them on leg armor as well, and mages have that goofy metal plate sticking out in front. And for no apparent reason the mage version only has the arm-armor and gauntlet on one arm, while the other is close to entirely sleeveless.

Warriors have it by far the worst, while Rogues aren't too bad compared to the others, but they're all goofy as heck at best.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

But I like the Warrior-only Champion set! Well, not the helmet.

On a completely unrelated note, this made me smile.