OOTS #816 - The Discussion Thread

[Demonicbunny]

Crazy theory time.

Girard is bodysurfing (using his descendants).

Because we basically have two options.

1. It is Girard, and he's still vital enough to sire offspring. In which case "why steal the baby? Why then?"
2. Both birthmark and the ******* personality trait is inherited through the Draketooth line.

[Isis-sama]

Speculation on my part -

Ian is a Draketooth, but the hair and beard cover up the tattoo.

He met Haley's mother and courted her in an attempt to create more Draketooth family members, but when the time came to desert Haley's mother/kidnap Haley, he decided he couldn't go through with it as he developed feelings for Haley's mother, and so moved to the other continent to avoid being hunted down by other Draketooths (I believe Ian's brother-in-law is from the Western Continent). Possibly also why he grew the beard - to hide the tattoo from searching Draketooths seeking to reunite Ian with his family. Also adds a possible new dimension to Haley's mother's death speech - so Ian would not return to the Draketooths upon her death.

I don't know, what does everyone think? Sound plausible?

[AutomatedTeller]

Haley's tatoo is on her back, I believe. There is a scene where she and Elan are kissing and much of her back is visible.

The problem with the internet is that you can't really tell when someone puts for the idea of Ian as a Draketooth as a serious idea or just to mess with people. I don't really understand why he would be related to Draketooth, though I think it's a decent chance that he's involved with him/them.

[random_guy]

On the topic of Dorukan: He may have been significantly younger than Girard, and he was very old when Xykon killed him.

He looks like his age is fairly close to Girard in this comic. He is described as the "new kid", so he is definitely younger, but I don't think he is significantly younger. I don't think it would matter though, since they would both have passed on by now.

Xykon killed Dorukan when he already became a lich. This is what Xykon looked like when he was still human. Xykon probably killed Eugene's mentor before Roy was born, so if he didn't kill off Dorukan, he would be close to dying of old age by now.

Also, this comic compares Soon's age with Shojo's age. Shojo is the little boy in the comic, and he is currently an old man. Belkar said that Shojo would have passed on in a few years even if he was resurrected. Since Girard and Dorukan are both significantly older than Shojo, they wouldn't have much longer to live either.

[hamishspence]

SOD confirms some of these.

Xykon killed Eugene's mentor some time before Eugene even married Sara.

That said- mages have access to various ways of slowing aging, in D&D fiction.

[Querzis]

He looks like his age is fairly close to Girard in this comic. He is described as the "new kid", so he is definitely younger, but I don't think he is significantly younger. I don't think it would matter though, since they would both have passed on by now.

Xykon killed Dorukan when he already became a lich. This is what Xykon looked like when he was still human. Xykon probably killed Eugene's mentor before Roy was born, so if he didn't kill off Dorukan, he would be close to dying of old age by now.

Also, this comic compares Soon's age with Shojo's age. Shojo is the little boy in the comic, and he is currently an old man. Belkar said that Shojo would have passed on in a few years even if he was resurrected. Since Girard and Dorukan are both significantly older than Shojo, they wouldn't have much longer to live either.

This has already been discussed to death before and there is only two reasonable conclusion to draw from it: firstly, Soon died only a few years after the even at the gates. Considering the fact that he already had graying hair and beard back when he was adventuring (and also that his plan for protecting the gate involved becoming a ghost), this isnt so surprising. Soon was much older then the two others. Secondly, Shojo age is exagerated, hes in his sixty. Just go look at the timeline for more details but even though Roy call him an octogenarian (and really, why the hell would Roy know his age anyway), Shojo simply could not be much older then around 65. Also he got a nephew that look somewhere between 20-35, not a great-nephew mind you, just a nephew.

In other words, even without getting into the many ways an epic level spellcaster can live longer then other humans (and theres a lot of those by the way) theres nothing weird about Girard and Durokan being still alive. And if you do get into the ways an epic level spellcaster can live longer then Girard could be 200 years old and still be a perfectly normal human. Hell, you dont even have to be a spellcaster, theres an epic feat to live longer. A feat! And its stackable! A human epic level fighter could easely live to be 200 years old if he had no other epic feat he wanted to take.

[Isis-sama]

In the interest of accuracy, Soon does look like he's a bit older than Girard and Dorukan in the picture.

Not that that means Girard is necessarily still alive, I'm just pointing out a fact.

[bronnt]

I'm sure it's pointing out the obvious, but I like the added detail of Polozius/Zz'dtri in the 11th panel. It's enough to make you question whether Tarquin actually killed this one. It makes sense that if she was loose-lipped when drunk, the LG might kill her to keep her from spilling the details about Draketooth to anyone who happened along.

[Hazzardevil]

Since when has Elan come up with something as logical as Nale being able to turn Girard against the order? And now because of him Nale is guaranteed to make it work because the protagonists figured out what he was up to!

[hamishspence]

This has already been discussed to death before and there is only two reasonable conclusion to draw from it: firstly, Soon died only a few years after the even at the gates. Considering the fact that he already had graying hair and beard back when he was adventuring (and also that his plan for protecting the gate involved becoming a ghost), this isnt so surprising. Soon was much older then the two others. Secondly, Shojo age is exagerated, hes in his sixty. Just go look at the timeline for more details but even though Roy call him an octogenarian (and really, why the hell would Roy know his age anyway), Shojo simply could not be much older then around 65. Also he got a nephew that look somewhere between 20-35, not a great-nephew mind you, just a nephew.

Shojo's age is explicitly given as 72 in War & XPs.

Since when has Elan come up with something as logical as Nale being able to turn Girard against the order?

he remembers Nale trying to turn him against Haley, and has figured that he may use similar tactics again?

[Kish]

If anyone but Tarquin killed his latest wife, I'm surprised that he let it stand at "killed by mysterious circumstances." I would have expected his ego to demand a full-scale investigation with bloody revenge at the end, even if he'd been planning to kill her himself in a week or so.

[Ridureyu]

This comic was very good. I really liked it.

[Querzis]

Shojo's age is explicitly given as 72 in War & XPs.

Well at least Roy was as wrong as I was.

[Julian84]

Darn it, Giant, you have yet again created a character whose backstory is just as interesting and layered as the main plot (referring to Tarquin)

[Timeless Error]

Darn it, those guys racing to stop Tarquin were on my Fantasy Fantasy team...

This is a great new comic. Lots of new intriguing plot development.

EDIT: I just saw the comments on the Starshines really being Draketooths...that actually makes a lot of sense. Both family lines have red hair (although yes, I am aware that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar) - but more compellingly, the two families share the same paranoid mindset, they're both heavily involved in the current plotline, Ian just ran off mysteriously into the desert (looking for Girard?), and we even know for a fact that Haley has a tattoo on her back!

[SoC175]

This does explain some things, they never say that girard is human, but it is assumed so, why he would be alive after all this time is almost an impossible notion.

Actually for a high level D&D spellcaster that's part of the basics

[Sermil]

Any bets that the next words out of Tarquin's mouth are, "Oh, and Mr. Greenhilt? Since this is a race now, I'll save you the time of continuing to pretend you and my son don't know each other. Now hurry up and find the Draketooths."

[HandofShadows]

It's weird to see Elan being a mental half-step ahead of everyone else...

Maybe being near his fatehr raised his Int score?

Great page.

[Forikroder]

i wonder how big a 10 000 man army is in OoTS world

[AutomatedTeller]

Is there any actual reason to think that Ian is a Draketooth, other than speculation that it would be cool?

[Forikroder]

Speculation on my part -

Ian is a Draketooth, but the hair and beard cover up the tattoo.

He met Haley's mother and courted her in an attempt to create more Draketooth family members, but when the time came to desert Haley's mother/kidnap Haley, he decided he couldn't go through with it as he developed feelings for Haley's mother, and so moved to the other continent to avoid being hunted down by other Draketooths (I believe Ian's brother-in-law is from the Western Continent). Possibly also why he grew the beard - to hide the tattoo from searching Draketooths seeking to reunite Ian with his family. Also adds a possible new dimension to Haley's mother's death speech - so Ian would not return to the Draketooths upon her death.

I don't know, what does everyone think? Sound plausible?

if Ian was a draketooth, he would have left a long time before Haley actually got that old, the younger draketooth took the baby as soon as the baby wasnt physically dependant on the mother to surive

also Ian was always in greysky city, and why would he then return of his own free will to where the draketooths are if he was worried from them? and if they were hunting Ian and had an epic level wizard why did a beard keep him safe?

[Isis-sama]

Anyone else wondering just how many Draketooths there are now? Given Girard's extreme distrust of pretty much anyone outside family, I could totally see him trying to breed a literal army of children, and instructing his own children to do the same . . . I could see there being around 50 - 100 of Girard's family members (especially if Girard had any siblings and convinced them to help him out) in Windy Canyon once the Order finally gets there.

[Mojique]

This also does bring up another theory, since he is a master illusionist, wouldnt the best way to make sure no one ever found him is to make sure never ever saw the real him. How do we know that the girard we have seen is not just some form of disguise self and the tattoo may only be needed for a reason?

The he also could be Orrin.

[Isis-sama]

if Ian was a draketooth, he would have left a long time before Haley actually got that old, the younger draketooth took the baby as soon as the baby wasnt physically dependant on the mother to surive

also Ian was always in greysky city, and why would he then return of his own free will to where the draketooths are if he was worried from them? and if they were hunting Ian and had an epic level wizard why did a beard keep him safe?

You're missing the point of what I was trying to say. My theory was that Ian had grown too attached to Haley's MOTHER to try and leave her, not Haley (and what would his attachment to his daughter really have mattered if he was planning to take her with him anyway?)

And in order to successfully produce a child, Ian would have likely had to be around Haley's mother for at minimum a little under a year - enough time for the "whirlwind courtship" plus pregnancy, more if they had trouble conceiving. A year is plenty of time for someone to develop feelings for someone else.

And what makes you think that Girard even had access to an epic level wizard? Girard is an illusionist, and while Dorukan may have reached epic level eventually Girard would have had no contact with him. I don't see him hiring someone to track down a family member since he wouldn't trust the hiree, and while Girard probably had at least one of his decendants become a wizard it's highly doubtful they'd be able to reach epic levels considering how rare it is in the OOTS world.

[Forikroder]

You're missing the point of what I was trying to say. My theory was that Ian had grown too attached to Haley's MOTHER to try and leave her, not Haley (and what would his attachment to his daughter really have mattered if he was planning to take her with him anyway?)

And in order to successfully produce a child, Ian would have likely had to be around Haley's mother for at minimum a little under a year - enough time for the "whirlwind courtship" plus pregnancy, more if they had trouble conceiving. A year is plenty of time for someone to develop feelings for someone else.

And what makes you think that Girard even had access to an epic level wizard? Girard is an illusionist, and while Dorukan may have reached epic level eventually Girard would have had no contact with him. I don't see him hiring someone to track down a family member since he wouldn't trust the hiree, and while Girard probably had at least one of his decendants become a wizard it's highly doubtful they'd be able to reach epic levels considering how rare it is in the OOTS world.

GIRARD is an epic level wizard, im sure his ability to find a ROGUE that he had an extremely close relationship to (being a father/grandfather/uncle/whatever) is plenty to beat whatever check is needed to find him with scrying

and theres no evidence that Ian ever lived in the desert, sure he seems to have family there but thats not near enough evidence imo

[Absol197]

And what makes you think that Girard even had access to an epic level wizard? Girard is an illusionist...

You are aware that in 3.5 (which the OotS is based on), an Illusionist is a wizard with a specialty in illusions, right? Just like V is an evoker, a wizard with a specialty in evocation. Girard is an epic-level wizard (plus two levels of ranger), he doesn't need access to one.

EDIT: Curses! Ninja'd again!

[irenicObserver]

Of course the Order is much more likely to meet the descendents of the Order of the Scribble when they actually get to the gate. It was a long time ago.

[snikrept]

How do they know "Girard" wasn't an alias and the guy's real name is Orrin?!

Just because he looks younger... well, he's a master illusionist

[rbetieh]

How do they know "Girard" wasn't an alias and the guy's real name is Orrin?!

Just because he looks younger... well, he's a master illusionist

What kind of master of disguise changes only his first name and expects people to not catch on? File this under "with the glasses, without the glasses".

[KoboldRevenge]

Hmm I'd like to see that team of good guys, go up against Tarquins gang.

(Though from the spoiler alert it was a slaugter.)