My Little Pony XXXIV: There is Pony of it, no exceptions!

[Anarion]

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Yeah, this world seems less and less like a paradice and more like a place in which friendship is manditory. To be fair, this is little differnent than saying in DnD you have to be of good alingment or you will end up as some outsiders snack.

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Is the fact that friendship is an evolutionary adaptation rather than an optional choice a bad thing? I mean, I guess it takes away from free will a little bit, but it still seems like a society that runs on friendship is a paradise most of the time. Everything runs well, ponies all get along with each other and work well together, the lifestyle of the average pony is relaxing and provides time to pursue personal interests, and a team of six elites can effectively hold off all threats to the peace.

[Tiki Snakes]

Ha, Borz. Good stuff. Unnecessary A removed for proppa Borzyness.

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Note, at the risk of interpreting a 1000+ year old amateur play for historical detail, there seemed a possible suggestion that not all the pony's followed their leaders to what would become Equestria. I see some people assuming that there's nothing left there, but who's to say there isn't still pony society there?

Perhaps, unlike the Equestrian faction, those who stayed didn't learn the lessons of friendship in quite the same way or quite soon enough and there remain three or more less utopian and politically seperate pony societies.
Also, Equestria seems to be landlocked. So perhaps the fourth pony tribe, when leaving the old country, was the only one not to end up in Equestria?

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Otherwise, though I'm sure it isn't the case, I kind of like the idea of Celestia and Luna having a kind of Fable style backstory. Marked as special by their nature, sure, but having fought their way up from the streets of the Old Country from absolutely nothing, eventually saving Equestria from Discord and becoming Princesses. If we're modelling it on Fable, though, they'd have bought all the houses and kicked a lot of chickens by that point, though.

Also, I'm sure it's already been posted, but I bumbled across this, while searching for the above image and it is both awesome and relevant to the bubbling 40k Poni topic of the last few pages.

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[Thanqol]

So, hey! I've finished a pict I've been working on for the last few days. Take a look!

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It's....uh, it's quite a bit too big to post in the thread. Sorry. Here's a link instead!

Damn, son, that's rock. Have you posted around here before? I do not recall meeting you before.

[Lord Raziere]

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Is the fact that friendship is an evolutionary adaptation rather than an optional choice a bad thing? I mean, I guess it takes away from free will a little bit, but it still seems like a society that runs on friendship is a paradise most of the time. Everything runs well, ponies all get along with each other and work well together, the lifestyle of the average pony is relaxing and provides time to pursue personal interests, and a team of six elites can effectively hold off all threats to the peace.

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the "takes away the free will" part is the worst part. if one cannot choose their paradise, is it a paradise at all? and even if it is a paradise, is it a paradise worth having?

not to my mind.

[legomaster00156]

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the "takes away the free will" part is the worst part. if one cannot choose their paradise, is it a paradise at all? and even if it is a paradise, is it a paradise worth having?

not to my mind.

Friend_Celestia would like to remind you that free will is ILLEGAL. Friendship is mandatory. Please proceed to the nearest termination booth. Have a nice Daycycle!

[HalfTangible]

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the "takes away the free will" part is the worst part. if one cannot choose their paradise, is it a paradise at all? and even if it is a paradise, is it a paradise worth having?

not to my mind.

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Technically each and every pony in Equestria still has a choice whether to be friends or not. Otherwise characters like Trixie and Gilda would not exist. I see it more of a cultural influence than a direct magical or evolutionary affect.

And frankly saying an evolution to be friendly takes away free will is like saying an evolution that takes away gills removes free will.

[Pokonic]

Ha, Borz. Good stuff. Unnecessary A removed for proppa Borzyness.

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To be fair, its either them or Flutterponies.

Anarion@

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Its not so much that as the world inforcing that train of thought and nothing else. There is no "in between", or else things like the mere existance of things like Windygoes would mearly be moderate threats, not civilisation breaking. The fact that at every powerful inteligent being so far was powered on disharmany/arguing/dissension and the like shows that any relationship between others besides friendship or mutral coroperation usualy powers some cosmic spirit or another and might end the world. Or at least makes in inhabitable or very cold.

[BlasTech]

I love some of the small details. Gems on Rarity's sword, half of Fluttershy appearing next to Twilight who's teleporting her to safety, and the sun symbol on the collapsed statue were all nice touches.

Also, who's the kid behind the dragon's left foot near the edge of the picture?

Been answered already, I just want to say that I noticed Derpy too, nice sneaky cameo there!

Also, the turnaround time on the fanart from E11 is FAST:

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Regarding the Friendship/Free Will debate ... just because Friendship worked, doesn't mean it's the only thing that would have worked!

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[Pokonic]

Been answered already, I just want to say that I noticed Derpy too, nice sneaky cameo there!

Also, the turnaround time on the fanart from E11 is FAST:

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Regarding the Friendship/Free Will debate ... just because Friendship worked, doesn't mean it's the only thing that would have worked!

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[IMG]hhttp://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/351/f/d/winter_spiritbusters_by_niban_destikim-d4jevfc.jpg[/IMG]

Linky be broken.

[BlasTech]

Linky be broken.

Noticed and edited ... Seems the noticing of broken links is just as fast as the Fanart turnaround!

[Tiki Snakes]

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I think, somewhat inevitably, the whole evolutionary mandate for friendship is a little over-analysed.

Which is to say, it's not like a tendancy to co-operate isn't already powerfully selected for by evolution anyway.

More specifically, to be fair to the two main examples in question, I'm not sure if they support the hypothesis as such. Firstly, Discord didn't really seem to be powered by Disharmony and Crankypantsness, nor harmed by friendship and warmth. He was simply a powerful reality warper, agent of chaos and was defeated by the combined power of a half a dozen supremely powerful magical macguffins. The fact they might in any sense derive their power from warm fuzzy feelings is at least mostly irrelevant.

Likewise, the Windigos, as presented to us in the play, are defeated by some kind of previously unknown unicorn magic which is possibly triggered by warm fuzzy feelings. But they had only just discovered the Windigos were at fault, despite them having at some point in the past encountered them enough for Starswirl the Bearded to have documented what they were and what they could do.
It's quite possible that you can beat a Windigo with other spells or with some good old fashioned ultra-violence. The leutenants didn't have the option or time to, but the important part of the play was that due to the nature of the crisis, the calmer heads had a chance to talk with each other and make some real diplomatic progress, thus ending the pointless infighting and founding a new, better way. Commemorated of course in song and plays and traditions that evoke that same situation that made it possible.

Actually, given that they knew the Windigos so easily once revealed, I can't help but feel that in Starswirl's day, they encountered and soundly thrashed the Windigos in an entirely different and less Harmonious way, given that it was pre-Equestrian history and that the big blizzard was a one-time plot by the Windigos to get revenge by doing their thing on an epic scale by far above and beyond their normal capability. After all, it'd make sense if they usually were solitary creatures if nothing else, I can't imagine beings that literally feed on hatred and infighting are the most easy of neighbors to get along with.

[Anarion]

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the "takes away the free will" part is the worst part. if one cannot choose their paradise, is it a paradise at all? and even if it is a paradise, is it a paradise worth having?

not to my mind.

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I agree with the sentiment in that I want for myself and everyone else to be able to choose their path in life. However, I don't have a choice about whether I eat or not, whether I keep warm or not, whether I find a place to live or not. My alternative is starving/freezing to death. Ponies do have a choice about what they want to do (unless you also believe that cutie marks are predestined at birth). But apparently friendship for them is part of an evolutionary adaption.

Friend_Celestia would like to remind you that free will is ILLEGAL. Friendship is mandatory. Please proceed to the nearest termination booth. Have a nice Daycycle!

NOT HELPING >_<

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Technically each and every pony in Equestria still has a choice whether to be friends or not. Otherwise characters like Trixie and Gilda would not exist. I see it more of a cultural influence than a direct magical or evolutionary affect.

And frankly saying an evolution to be friendly takes away free will is like saying an evolution that takes away gills removes free will.

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Well said. It might not be quite the same as losing gills, in that they can survive without friendship, but it certainly is a major difference in quality of life.

To be fair, its either them or Flutterponies.

Anarion@

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Its not so much that as the world inforcing that train of thought and nothing else. There is no "in between", or else things like the mere existance of things like Windygoes would mearly be moderate threats, not civilisation breaking. The fact that at every powerful inteligent being so far was powered on disharmany/arguing/dissension and the like shows that any relationship between others besides friendship or mutral coroperation usualy powers some cosmic spirit or another and might end the world. Or at least makes in inhabitable or very cold.

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You're right. I guess I don't have a problem with the monsters because I simply accept that as a part of the MLP world. Mostly I like the fact that there are dangerous monsters that present real, deadly threats because it makes the conflicts in the show feel more meaningful. Fluttershy doesn't just have a forceful personality, she actually saved Twilight from being turned to stone! etc.

I guess, what I find kind of weird, is that I've never heard people complain that they need magic to fight monsters in D&D or that futuristic GENERIC NON-40K space marines have laser guns to fight aliens. Ponies need friendship and it works pretty well for them.

Edited because that was a general point: I wasn't talking about 40k.

[HalfTangible]

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I agree with the sentiment in that I want for myself and everyone else to be able to choose their path in life. However, I don't have a choice about whether I eat or not, whether I keep warm or not, whether I find a place to live or not. My alternative is starving/freezing to death. Ponies do have a choice about what they want to do (unless you also believe that cutie marks are predestined at birth). But apparently friendship for them is part of an evolutionary adaption.

NOT HELPING >_<

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Well said. It might not be quite the same as losing gills, in that they can survive without friendship, but it certainly is a major difference in quality of life.

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You're right. I guess I don't have a problem with the monsters because I simply accept that as a part of the MLP world. Mostly I like the fact that there are dangerous monsters that present real, deadly threats because it makes the conflicts in the show feel more meaningful. Fluttershy doesn't just have a forceful personality, she actually saved Twilight from being turned to stone! etc.

I guess, what I find kind of weird, is that I've never heard people complain that they need magic to fight monsters in D&D or that futuristic space marines have laser guns to fight aliens. Ponies need friendship and it works pretty well for them.

Space Marines... with laser guns?

GUARDSMEN get laser guns. SPACE MARINES get rocket launching semi-auto machine guns

[Capt. Ido Nos]

Ep thoughts as I watch it! Gonna do it for real this time:

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-hey it's the intro train! hey it's derpy!
-dat hat rarity. i wonder how much ref that's worAUGH PINKIE PIE
-back in canterlot! looks nice in winter
-never a big fan of eye spy, but i guesPINKIE PIE
-oh neat a play, are the animators just making crowd jiggle back and forth?
-derpy says hi! <3 awww, poor derpy <3
-neat costumes all around
-did fluttershy actually whinney right there?
-a time before celestia and the discovery of ponyville etc? wow, huh, who lived there before?
-wow, earth ponies got it rough
-wow the pegasi are jerks
-wow the unicorns did the sun/moon?
-huh, tribes.
-oh hey ther lyra
-lol, immediate fight
-way to stick to your guns pinkie
-oh hey, nobody like the unicorn magic
-good job with that crown rarity
-i wonder if this is in the script...
-whoa, cloud things!
-aw, flootershy
-derpy eyes!
-wait, "sir"?
-snow hat! (dat plot)
-ootini, twi
-poor AJ, having to deal with the Chancelor. longsuffering indeed
-wait a new land? this wasn't equestria? where are the old lands/who lives there now?
-yeah you fight those clouds RD
-hey guys, weren't you forgetting the rest of your tribes?
-oh snap them's fighting words rarity
-wait what, pinkie?
-heaven forbid
-pinkie stop breaking my brain!
-Pegasopolis?
-Aokay, Rainbow dash has a point, she was there first...
-oh hey, chaos brings the snow
-guys stop ruining nature
-augh the sky horse ghost things!
-spike revels his porcine tendencies, and his fake british accent
-Rainbow Dash clearly knows the true values of value of dibs
-pinkie knows the value of espianoge
-and, suddenly snow again
-well, that's pretty horrifying, them not noticing that they're freezing solid
-and all the blue oni are left
-windigos
-Starswirl! :D
-you know, huh, i at first thought this was a little over the top so far especially with the given moral, but then i realized this was a straight up play, of COURSE it's over the top
-heart is once again the greatest power!
-friendship is magic! friendship on three!
-oh hey, let's have fun instead of actually saving our leaders no big deal
-wait how did they have the alicorns on the flag when they didn't know about alicorns?
-song!
-is this the equestrian national anthem? this sounds like an anthem
-derpy! <3
-oh ohhhh, i see the open window wind metaphor. icy what you did there

edit: also (spoilers)

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[Tectonic Robot]

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Well that was a cool episode I wonder what everyone is going to say and oh welp Iron Hoof theories again.

:/

She wasn't even there, guys. She wasn't even there.

Windigos are cool!

[PhantomFox]

So.... regarding various writers...

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Charlotte vs. Polsky. Who'd you pick?

[Callos_DeTerran]

New Episode stuff.

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To me, this episode was the final nail in the coffin for the 'the princesses are divinity' theory. It's pretty obvious that the three tribes didn't need Celestia and Luna to raise and lower the sun and moon which puts it beyond the providence of divinity. If anything, I could admit that it might be a lost skill that no one knows besides Celestia and Luna, but I think even that's a stretch.

My theory on the princesses now? Unicorns can raise and lower the sun and moon just fine, albeit with enough effort, but two ponies are always born in [insert time frame here] who are exceptionally good at it, earning their Cutie Marks for the act, and known for having wings.

Keep in mind that alicorns and them being a seperate race is pretty much mostly fanon, in the show and from the development team Celestia and Luna are just noted as winged unicorns. An 'alicorn' may just be...well..the result of the Super Power Lottery. You get wings, an excetionally long life-span, and enhanced magical powers, but you aren't unique in it.

It just makes more sense in my mind then the two princesses being gods of any kind.

As for questions it raises...
How long did Equistria exist before Discord took it over?
How long did Discord reign before Celestia and Luna imprisoned him, cause I got the impression from Celestia that he ruled for a LONG time?
Did Celestia and Luna become princesses on the basis of the fact that they united the three tribes and defeated Discord?

The flag doesn't bother me at all though, as someone else pointed out, the CMC were in the crowd which would suggest a lot of fillies and foals might possibly be in attendance. Using the antique Equistrian flag would have just confused them, so they used the modern one instead to save time and effort explaining how a flag can change over...a really really long time.

On the whole, the episode felt like one of the weakest ones of the season. Don't get me wrong, I love world-building, but I prefer to have it woven into a story rather then it just being laid out there instead of a plot. Compared to other awesome episodes this season that managed world-building (albeit not of this quantity) AND a good story, I feel like this episode dropped the ball in not trying to do the same.

[TheAmishPirate]

Losing sleep for ponies? Status quo is maintained!

I'd write my own, potentially witty thoughts about this episode, but I believe PhantomFox summed it up rather nicely:

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Overall, I enjoyed this episode for what it was, worldbuilding. The mane cast played the parts very nicely. Not as filling as an episode of character development, but still tasty. Just a different flavor.

Also, I support the following spoiler-iffic theory.

true non heretical theory:

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Alicorns are gods, and were always worshiped by ponies though never did they appear physically, except maybe to devout worshippers. And that is why they were represented on the first Equestrian flag.

But during the Discordian Age, the hope and fervent prayers of ponies mixed with the ancient friendship magic, and thus the perfect fusion of all pony races are made manifest, in fact, they are friendship magic incarnate. There should be no doubt to their divinity or their divine right to rule.

There, I said it, can I be let go now?

edit: frankly this makes the origin of Celestia and Luna that much closer to How the Emperor of Mankind were created. 40k Pony Canon?

[Kindablue]

Ep thoughts as I watch it! Gonna do it for real this time:

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-wait, "sir"?

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Yeah, I caught that too. I thought that maybe Equestrian theater is the opposite of Elizabethan theater in regards to the expected gender of its players, so actresses regularly cross-dress to play male parts.

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That was my favorite part of the episode. I really want those two to have more scenes together now.

[SiuiS]

On pegasi career choices (episode spoilers!)

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So, another interesting piece from the show. In last week's episode, it was shown that the Wonderbolts were members of the Equestrian military. In this episode, it is shown that the original pegasi had an established military, and placed their Commander as their ruler. They were violent and brave, but at the same time, they were organized. They weren't afraid to stoop to weather control.
In the current age of Equestria, I theorize that the pegasi are pretty much split into two factions: the "mundane citizens", which include the weather teams and the pegasi who's special talents are unrelated; and the core of the Equestrian military, who also include most of the Royal Guard pegasi.
It makes sense that the original "army clan" would make up most of the modern-day military, but we see several pegasi that are quite clearly simple citizens. However, I think it's a good idea that pegasi would make up the army, not only because of their roots and personalities, but also their abilities. They obviously are capable of flight, and they have also been seen (and heard) to be capable of making their wings razor-sharp when needed.

as related to last week's episode,

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I am still certain that the Wonderbolts took off Spike's spines with their hooves, not their wings.

Spoiled because I'm tired and not sure how it'd be received otherwise.

[BlasTech]

Gah, Ponythread is too quiet ...

INCOMING IMAGEBOMB! *Hurls it at thread*

(Warning, many large images in this post. Screen stretching is inevitible.

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And the 100k image on Ponibooru



Warning - E11

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Warning, HUGE!

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[Verb the Noun]

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Yeah, I caught that too. I thought that maybe Equestrian theater is the opposite of Elizabethan theater in regards to the expected gender of its players, so actresses regularly cross-dress to play male parts.

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Female officers are still referred to as "sir". Also Privet Pansy calls Commander Hurricane a her in the "I hate her more I hate you guys" scene.

[Newman]

Been reading Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons.

What the... See, this fic takes all the grimdark that's in FO:E and... doesn't add new elements. Instead, it just takes what's there and takes it to its logical conclusion.

I've just witnessed an interrogation by raider. Not somepony being interrogated by a raider. No, it was by the hero. The interrogation was made using a raider. I said Littlepip was like the Hobo With A Shotgun. Security is like Marv from Sin City, except even more ruthless, once you piss her off. Our protagonist, ladies and gentlemen. And the worst part is, the circumstances warranted that.

The amazing thing about this fic is that it found a reasonable explanation for the raiders' absurd violence.

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They weren't just evil drug addicts. They're infected by a biological disease that sponges their brains.

And the Enclave is trying to turn it into a bioweapon, if they haven't already.

[Thanqol]

Long Distance has updated for those of you who follow it. Mostly a few rewrites, lengthening and solidifying. Datecoded from last edits. Feedback is appreciated.

[Tectonic Robot]

So, hey! I've finished a pict I've been working on for the last few days. Take a look!

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It's....uh, it's quite a bit too big to post in the thread. Sorry. Here's a link instead!

You...

:O

Stay here forever.

[legomaster00156]

Long Distance has updated for those of you who follow it. Mostly a few rewrites, lengthening and solidifying. Datecoded from last edits. Feedback is appreciated.

Um, not sure if I'm comfortable with the Applejack x Twilight Sparkle pairing, but the Fluttershy x Rainbow Dash I am actually liking (as much as I can like any shipping within an all-female cast). The story is a solid one, and I encourage you to keep writing.

[Athaniar]

So, hey! I've finished a pict I've been working on for the last few days. Take a look!

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It's....uh, it's quite a bit too big to post in the thread. Sorry. Here's a link instead!

Whoa. That's awesome. You're awesome.

Aaaaah, okay, thanks ^^

Okay, I wasn't going to get in on the episode stuff but I saw this and thought I'd throw it out there.

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Goodnight Ponythread.

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You know, the alicorn to the left on the new flag reminds me of Lix's avatar. ^^

Been answered already, I just want to say that I noticed Derpy too, nice sneaky cameo there!

Also, the turnaround time on the fanart from E11 is FAST:

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Regarding the Friendship/Free Will debate ... just because Friendship worked, doesn't mean it's the only thing that would have worked!

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Awesome. ^^

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Hah! I can totally see that now (both of them).

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Is that the Rainbow of Light from G1?

[Newman]

The old books foretold their return. Their defeat... was merely a delay. In the time after the fortress in the Moon opened, and the sons of Equestria turned gray on each other, they came, to bath the world in balefire. But, there's one they feared. Until she took an arrow in the knee.

(Warning, swearing)

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Here is a fun mod for Skyrim

[Leliel]

Well, I really don't see what the big deal is with the whole timeline thing-we just build new theories, change the fanon accordingly, move on. Hating it just because it pokes holes in fanon is the epitome of fan immaturity, in my not-so-humble opinion.

I'm not saying it was without flaws, but I think the episode was simply an average-to-good episode in a season filled with awesome ones.

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Plus, it gave me an idea for a scene in an Exalted/MLP crossover I may do:

A Ponified Malefactor, upset with what he views as the naivete of the main cast in viewing the world as anything more than a savage, vicious place where the only true law is rule or be ruled (which is ironic, since he has Compassion maxed-he just happens to have a demon's-eye perspective of the Age of Sorrows, so it's pretty true when it comes to Creation) going little god-hunting for catharsis.

He finds a few Windigos, who were attracted by the bitterness and anger of him and his Infernal friends (who also have Compassion relatively high because they're the only Exalted who can go to Equestria without feeling the urge to conquer it-but by Pony standards, they're still hateful and vicious).

Two hours later, he comes back to Ponyville, feeling a lot less grouchy, and with a backpack full of abnormally cold starmetal ore.

[Rebelhero]

Guys guys guys.
I have the answer to all of your questions.

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It was in the script. That's why.