Pathfinder Alchemist help

[OracleofSilence]

Well. Its a new year (and has been for a while), and a buddy of mine has decided to run a PF horror campaign. The world is hombrew, and magic (with the exception of bards) is Word Spells only.

After kicking a few character idea's around i came to the alchemist . It looks interesting, self buffing, some decent but unexceptional blasting, and (or so it appears) decent power level. Ultimately, my question is this. What is the alchemists role?

The campaign starts at level one, and i am considering focusing heavily on self buffing with this character (infusions and whatnot). What feats would work aside from generic combat oriented ones? Are there any exceptional archetypes? Is the alchemist even worth it?

[legomaster00156]

What is the alchemists role?

This is an interesting question. I have not personally played an Alchemist (the archetype doesn't really appeal to me), but I know the class. The Alchemist's primary function is buffing, whether self-buffing or using Infusion (which every Alchemist should have) to give the buffs to your party members. once sufficiently self-buffed, you can charge into battle. Most Alchemists are happy enough to sit back and chuck Bombs, but there is the occasional melee build.

Are there any exceptional archetypes?

I like the Grenadier (for combat-focused Alchemists) and Chirurgeon (for healing-focused Alchemists). They're all fairly decent, though.

Is the alchemist even worth it?

That is for you to decide.

[Menteith]

After kicking a few character idea's around i came to the alchemist . It looks interesting, self buffing, some decent but unexceptional blasting, and (or so it appears) decent power level. Ultimately, my question is this. What is the alchemists role?

The campaign starts at level one, and i am considering focusing heavily on self buffing with this character (infusions and whatnot). What feats would work aside from generic combat oriented ones? Are there any exceptional archetypes? Is the alchemist even worth it?

The Alchemist is a competitive class. It has some of the best combat debuffing available to any class. Tanglefoot Bomb is an excellent early choice, as the Entangled condition not only shuts down melee, but also forces casters to make a somewhat difficult Concentration check (which is actually relevant now that it's not a skill). Confusion Bomb doesn't offer a Save, and since you're going to be able to hit Touch AC without a problem, Confusion Bomb + Fast Bombs can end encounters as soon as you get a turn. Either Frost Bomb or Smoke + Stink Bomb give you a way to target Fortitude saves as well, and Stink Bomb gives you even more AoE control. If your DM is throwing enemies with elemental resistances/immunities at you, Force Bombs is the best way of dealing with it. Going from a d6 to a d4 lowers damage by 1/die on average, but no one has Force immunity and it knocks targets Prone, which is another decent status effect. You also deal a reasonable amount of damage even if the target makes a save, meaning that you can always contribute to a combat.

You also make a strong utility caster. Infusion (which really should be part of the class, but whatever) is required to me. An important thing to remember is that you can prepare any open Extract slot with 1m of time, so you can "spontaneously" cast any spell you know out of combat if you don't fill your slots. This, coupled with the ease of learning spells for an Alchemist and the relative nonimportance of them to combat, allows you to have the solution to many problems available at a minute's notice. Infusion also lets you give out prepared Extracts to other people - you can give a Melee player an Extract of Enlarge Person, allowing them to spend their own actions "casting" the spell while you start bombing. Once you have 2nd level Extracts, you gain Alchemical Allotment, which lets you drink a potion without consuming it. Since potions are so cheap, you can now pick up a Barkskin +5, Shield of Faith +5, Resist Energy 30, Invisibility, Fly, and other goodies and "cast" them with a 2nd level Extract, effectively giving you early access to a number of important spells. Also note that Alchemical Allotment works with Elixir of Hiding and Elixir of Perception.

If you want to get a bit more abusive, I believe that Tumor Familiar qualifies you for Improved Familiar at level 7, and you have Use Magic Device as a class skill. If you pick up a familiar with hands and decent spell likes (I recommend a Tripurasura, it has Detect Magic as a constant, can Feather Fall you at will, and gives you Locate Object 3/day and Commune 1/week) you can effectively gain a "free" use of UMD every round, which can be devastating.

If you want to run a Bomber, which is what I've been talking about, I'd recommend looking at Mindchemist, especially if you can port Knowledge Devotion from 3.5. You gain Cognatogen and Perfect Recall in place of Poison Use, and offers the best trade off of any of the Archetypes. If you are the only caster in a group, Psychonaut is "alright", since it patches the worst holes in your spell list, Divinations and travel. If I remember right, you don't get anything that teleports you until 6th level extracts, and can't scry and die in the traditional sense. Featwise, if you want to grab Fast Bombs (which you should), I'd recommend taking Improved Two Weapon Fighting for an additional bomb/round. Rapid Shot does the same thing, but you usually won't have the Feats to burn on the "Shot" chain.

I hope that this helped you make a choice. My brain isn't working too well right now, if I think of anything else I'll try and post it tomorrow.

[Curious]

-Snip-

A pretty good rundown of bomber tactics, but you forgot beastmorph/ragechemist vivisectionist melee alchemists.

[Chained Birds]

As an Alchemist, you are given several rolls to choose from,

Buffer: You can give yourself many of the common buffs used on the wizard's spell list + a few nifty Alchemist only buffs for your bombs. You also have a mutagen that is pretty much an awesome buff that does either 1 of the following: Make you Stronger but Dumber, Make you more Dexterous but crazy, or Make you Tougher but less Attractive.
If you take the right discoveries you can give these buffs, and even your mutagen to another guy. You can also change your mutagen to do pretty much the exact opposite of what it used to do, meaning it improves your mental stats by reducing your physical ones.

Fighter: If you focus on improving your mutagen, you can be a fairly competent warrior. Your improved strengths from the mutagen, coupled with your own buffs can make you quite the intimidating force, though your mental stats would probably drag behind. Think Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Monster.

Crowd Control: First few levels, a bomber Alchemist (Traditional Alchemist) will be the bane of all hordes as anything you throw that does splash damage does extra damage equal to your Int Mod! Your bombs are free alchemist's fire that get progressively stronger making your splash damage better. Splash starts to go unnoticed towards mid-to-late game, but your bombs now do more than just blow stuff up. They can freeze and stagger, poison and obscure, instant kill and maim, shock and awe, or whatever you are going for for your particular Bomber.

Crafter: They get brew potion as a bonus feat... So you can make cheap potions to share with your friends. You can also use your discoverys to make a caster lvl 1 potion into a caster lvl X potion when you drink it where X is your lvl; You can also extend the effect generated by the potion to double its usual duration. That's something more alchemists can do unless an archetype trades in the free feat for something a little more suited for your alchemist theme.

Utility: Not as good as a wizard by far, but really what is? Alchemists have a good extract list (spell list) and can get some good mileage out of it. Alchemist can make an extract on the spot (1 minute) if necessary as long as they have at least an unused "extract slot" (spell slot) available for the day, so that can be useful.

Why you should play one?
They have a lot of fun RP aspects to them.
Their power is around mid-level (I think tier 3 or 2), so they work well in most parties.
They have the benefit of running around and killing things with SCIENCE!
Their power is based around technology instead of magic, so they can do a fairly decent job in low-magic or anti-magic games (still subject to dispel magic stuff but whatever).
Their extract list is funny. Think of every spell list contributing their weirdest spells onto 1 list, and throwing in a few of the common stuff like Bear's Endurance or Haste.

Is it worth it?
Depends, I truly enjoy lobbing explosives at hords of enemies from lvl 1 to lvl 20. It is also fun coming up with ideas to the side-effects of your mutagen and how your appearance might alter through prolonged exposure to all these dangerous alchemical agents. So I think it is worth it for all the cool fluff and RP things that come out when playing a class like this.

[Aemoh87]

I have played Alch twice now (once as a DMPC) and I love it. It reminds me alot of a druid 3.5 super unoptimized, you can do a whole lot but don't feel amazing at anything (Except crowd control, you might be the best in pathfinder at it). The first time I built my alch to be very balanced focusing on bombs/mutagens/infusions equally. The second time I went pure melee and that was fun too. I recommend the more balance route as it is nice to be able to fill the holes and be tactically priceless. Really it depends what your party needs, maybe try to be 2 of the three and let the forgotten aspect be icing on your alchemical cake.

[Menteith]

A pretty good rundown of bomber tactics, but you forgot beastmorph/ragechemist vivisectionist melee alchemists.

Yeah, posted it just before I went to sleep and realized I didn't mention when I woke up today >.>

[Eshi]

if you're starting at lvl 1, then here's a fair warning - alchemists are pretty rigid and boring at lvl 1. They get extremely few bombs per day and spells to work with. Make sure your alchemy crafting is decent enough to make some Acids as fallback for when you run out.

Once you get some levels on you, alchemists become crazy versatile. They are my favorite class in pathfinder because they can literally do every roll without being OP like druids/clerics. They get some utility that no other class can replicate too. Bomb discoveries turn him into a battlefield control machine. Infusion lets him give some buffs to party members that they would otherwise be unable to access. Alchemical Allocation lets you carry a bunch of random potions around with you, wherever you go, and use them when you need them without ever consuming them. Have a monk in your group? Buy a potion of greater magic fang with a high caster level and give it to him every morning for +5 to all his attacks, by LEVEL 4!

The only problem I have with them is that multiclassing with them is impossible, unless you are melee based and prestige into master chemist. They NEED those 20 levels in alchemist as their class mechanics are too unique and don't play nice with other ones.