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2012-03-14, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Hmm, let's see... from the perspective of my social-Zenith-who-also-hits-things-with-a-hammer...
-Anima banner *looks at Malefactor anima with extreme jealousy* Although perhaps the added soak against CoDs is more valuable now.
-Hammer/Goremaul/Grand Goremaul no longer Piercing.
-Goremaul comparable in effectiveness to high-quality mundane hammer. Sigh @Singing Staff.
-Shields seem fairly worthless now (because I can't use them in conjunction with my 3-dot Melee specialty).
+Extra successes on social attacks have effects!
+UMI not obvious!
+Free combos!
+Stunting on every attack!
And the changes to Resistance Charms are... a mixed bag, but I can cope. At least it didn't make Iron Skin Concentration a wasted purchase, which I was worried about. I will need a different way to deal with surprise attacks if my game adopts the errata, though.
Is it just me, or is grand daiklave pretty much strictly better than grand goremaul at this point? The grand goremaul has worse speed, worse accuracy, worse defense, worse minimum damage, fewer hearthstone settings, and higher minimum Strength - its only advantage is 16B damage instead of 11L, and given that bashing soak tends to be better than lethal soak, it's not even clear that's an advantage.
Still fairly new to the system, though, so will be interested to see what others think of the errata
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2012-03-14, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Your kidding me, Luck.
I go through, one of the longest, most unlucky days of my life, and THEN you give me 2.5 errata?
it had better be good, luck…..
*Later*
…..I still don't know whether this is good or not. I'll need to check with others to see if this is good or anything….
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2012-03-14, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- Nexus
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2012-03-14, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Oh, I can believe it. But it seems like they may have overreacted a little (or not dialed down the grand daiklave enough, one or the other), unless 16B really is that much better than 11L. I guess they might be trying to make it so doing the maximum damage is strongly discouraged, but still an option if you really want to. Hmmm.
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2012-03-14, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Usaki City, Syona
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
It's not strictly BETTER, but in some cases it's more useful. It can knock someone out, instead of kill them.
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-03-14, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
As if everything else wasn't enough, the blog's back. Not anything much up yet, and there's no real information on what's going to eventually go there.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-03-14, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
I'm really digging the CRM errata.
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-14, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Bottom of a well
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2012-03-14, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Under the Iron Gauntlet
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
So I'm going to ST a 2.5 game. Mixed group, sandbox that starts off in Kirighast and, assuming the group doesn't pack up and ship out just to mess with me, will be focused in and around Harborhead.
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2012-03-14, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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2012-03-15, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Stuck here
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
*downloads*
And this comes out right after I finally gathered together all of the 2.0 books.
*prepares to have to retool all his characters*
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2012-03-15, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Wait, does the inclusion of Ink Monkeys errata means their stuff is official now?
*nerdgasm*"Can you do science to it?"
"I can do science to anything."
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2012-03-15, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Under Mt. Ebott
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
It's been forever, actually. Some people liked IM, some didn't, but their stuff always was official. See, for example, how all the Scrolls of Errata since Dawn Solution have come with the IM chargen rules changes.
Anyway, I'm poking over the Siderrata when I have time. Mixed feelings up to now. Some goods, some bads, some happies, and some sads.Last edited by Drascin; 2012-03-15 at 06:43 AM.
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2012-03-15, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Actually I've seen ST's go either way on it.
"Can you do science to it?"
"I can do science to anything."
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2012-03-15, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- Nexus
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2012-03-15, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
I no longer actively read the forums, and probably won't respond to any PMs. I'm fine with people using my homebrew in anything, including fan-compilations and wikis, as long as you credit me.
Homebrew by The Demented One.
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2012-03-15, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-15, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Old Blighty
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
You'll get no disagreement from me, though I'm waiting for the writers to explain the intent behind it. It's entirely possible we're about to get a raft of Malfeas Charms that incentivize/facilitate carrying around lots of unattuned artifacts. Or it might get changed, depends.
I'd expect the wording on attunement motes to be changed for clarity and consolidation, at any rate.
Interesting. Would you mind if I try to run some math on this?
Assume two Solars, straight out of character creation.
One is attacking, the other defending.
Attacker has Str5, Dex5, Melee5, Spec3, Ess2. He has an orichalcum daiklave, with Acc4, and a breastplate, and gets a two-dot Stunt.
This grants him an attack pool of 19 dice, for an average of 9.5 successes. Let's round that up to 10.
Defender has Sta5, Dex5, Melee5, Spec3, Ess2. He has an orichalcum thunderbolt shield, and a breastplate, so Def6, and gets a two-dot Stunt.
This grants him a parry DV of 12.
The attacker will not hit the defender without luck or spending motes on an Excellency, which the latter can also spend motes on.
The attacker spends 5m, 1wp on Iron Whirlwind Attack, to make six attacks. He spends a further 1m on each one to enhance them with Hungry Tiger Technique, for a total cost of 11m, 1wp.
The first attack is 10 vs 12, and misses.
The second attack benefits from onslaught, and is 10 vs 11. It misses.
The third attack is 10 vs 10, and misses.
The fourth attack is 10 vs 9. Hurrah!
The attacker's raw damage is Dam5L+Str5+1sux (sux doubled with HTT) = 12L
The defender's soak is Nat2+Armour4 = 6L
So the attacker has a post-soak damage of 6L. Which translates into 2 lethal health levels.
The fifth attack is 10 vs 7 (since the defender now has a -1 wound penalty), which will deal a total of 3 lethal health levels.
The sixth attack is 10 vs 3 (-4 wound penalty, -5 onslaught) which will deal a total of 6 lethal health levels, knocking the defender down to his last Dying health level; only direct and immediate medical treatment can save him now.
So yes, if a Melee Solar spends 11m, 1wp on a magical flurry against someone who spends no motes defending themselves, he will kill them. This should not be a surprise.
The defender can spend 12m (stunt-to-stunt fewer motes) on their Melee Excellency to avoid all three of the attacks that actually hit him. Sure, the attacker can spend these motes too; at which point the defender can start perfecting and still come out ahead. This set-up also assumes the defender is using no passive Charms for their defense, while the attacker has already blown four of their starting Charms on this combo alone.
Alternatively, the defender could spend background dots on getting some proper armour. Artifact Reinforced Breastplate is now just Artifact 2, and would reduce the total damage from those three attacks that hit to 5L, and the defender's still standing without any defense-Charms.
So I find your conclusion inaccurate (not to mention very difficult to adjudicate since most combat doesn't take place in a vacuum).Last edited by Revlid; 2012-03-15 at 01:10 PM.
Thanks to Andraste for the Void avatar.
My surviving Exalted homebrew can be found here.
Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm
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2012-03-15, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- A long, long chain
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Hmm.
One thing to note with the example is that Thunderbolt Shields are parry-based defensive weapons, so they don't seem to benefit from specialties unless those specialties are in shields.
...
Which, now that I think about it, makes a guy using an Orihalcum Thunderbolt Shield for defense and an Adamant Thunderbolt Shield for offense somewhat-viable, and also hilarious.
Hm.Rider avatar by Elder Tsofu
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2012-03-15, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Draper, Utah
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Revlid, you forgot a few things:
Averages are not the actual result. Those first 3 attacks have a non-zero chance of hitting their target (in fact, its a pretty decent chance of hitting).
You forgot to include One Weapon Two Blows in your calculations.
The expected result on a damage roll is one third the dice, not one half.
Why are you using a normal daiklave? A grand daiklave still does twice the damage for one lower accuracy.
Finally, your example opponent is a completely twinked out defensive build. If you need to go that far to survive, we have already discovered the new paranoia scheme.Last edited by Kyeudo; 2012-03-15 at 12:45 PM.
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2012-03-15, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Old Blighty
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Definitely. The Malefactor anima is extremely pretty, but soak is more important than it was before.
Yeah. I mean, an orichalcum Goremaul has the Overwhelming tag, one extra point of Accuracy, and two points of damage over an exceptional hammer. Granted, that's nice, but is it 6xp and 5 committed motes worth of nice? It's the exact same difference between a Daiklave and an exceptional short sword.
The issue is that you can't make artifact weapons much better, or they loom back into causing too much damage and splattering everything, and you can't make mundane weapons much worse without them becoming laughably useless. So you're stuck with the most balanced solution, which leaves us with somewhat underwhelming stats for artifact weapons in comparison to their mundane counterparts. But hey, most of them have hearthstone slots, so that's practically a free level-1 artifact, right there.
Why not? If anything, they seem simpler to use with Melee than before.Thanks to Andraste for the Void avatar.
My surviving Exalted homebrew can be found here.
Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm
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2012-03-15, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
True.... except averages are used to show average results. Which is generally what's done for examples.
Probably to make it as baseline as he could.
If twinked out means using a shield, non-artifact armor, and no defensive charms...
Yeah, I'm not buying it.
The issue would be that you'd need a specialization in shields, which wouldn't allow you to specialize in, say, Swords.Last edited by Tavar; 2012-03-15 at 12:57 PM.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-03-15, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
The specialty rule needs to change anyways. It's not broken to allow players to purchase as many specialty dots as they like, so long as they don't stack above 3 dice in any given situation.
Protection of Celestial Bliss is badass, but I would think that costless perfects would be bad for the system.The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-15, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
If I can't use averages when producing a mathematical simulation based off averages, I'm not sure what you want me to use. Gut instinct?
I didn't forget. I deliberately ignored it, because it's not supplemental and so can be used on any or none of the attacks. It's a judgement call on each attack whether the chance of hitting is good enough to warrant a three-mote expenditure (pushing the cost of the combo up to a possible total of 29m, 1wp), and I didn't want the hassle of making that call in a supposedly neutral whitebox.
*slaps head* Of course. Edited, thanks.
Daiklave is a two-dot artifact, Thunderbolt Shield is a two-dot artifact. Equity between the opponents.
My example opponents both have Attribute 5, Attribute 5, Ability 5, Specialty 3, and a two-dot artifact. The attacker needs four offensive Melee Charms, the defender needs no Charms. In what way is the defender twinked?Last edited by Revlid; 2012-03-15 at 01:15 PM.
Thanks to Andraste for the Void avatar.
My surviving Exalted homebrew can be found here.
Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm
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2012-03-15, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
A further necessary stipulation: no mutually exclusive specialties. The example generally given is Dodge (Armoured) and Dodge (No Armour), but others work.
I'd stack the number of specialty dots allowed to an ability at (Ability +1), with no mutually-exclusive specialties allowed, and any dice granted by specialties capped at 3.Thanks to Andraste for the Void avatar.
My surviving Exalted homebrew can be found here.
Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm
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2012-03-15, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-15, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Usaki City, Syona
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
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2012-03-15, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-15, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Each die has just more than one third of a chance (2:5) to roll a 7, 8, 9 or 10. 10s don't score double successes, so each die gives you roughly two-fifths health levels.
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2012-03-15, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
The simplest way of getting averages in Exalted is to halve the number of dice thrown, since the Exalted (who you're generally playing as) get one success on a 7-9, and two on a 10. So on 100 dice, you'll get an average of 50 successes.
When rolling raw damage, you don't double rolled 10s (except without magic making it so). This reduces the number of successes rolled out of 100 from 50 to 40. Which is closer to a third than a half when you want to do quick-and-rough calculation.
Originally Posted by tonberrianThanks to Andraste for the Void avatar.
My surviving Exalted homebrew can be found here.
Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm